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#1 Main Forum » Eve Spoon Plays During a Sale » Today 05:30:43

Spoonwood
Replies: 0

In another thread of mine, I recommended not playing during a sale for purposes of gene score.  I won't post the link here though, because the reasoning isn't quite right.  I did see players like Wondible, Twisted, and Ray (who has gone by Gibs in Hetuw chat) lose gene score points during this past weekend.  I suspect that part of the reason lies in that players struggle a lot to keep up with town organization and town development during something like this, as well as exeprienced destructive players ending up more likely to have more of an influence, due to more vulnerable new players.  But, I digress.

I had seen using the reflector/server list: https://www.onehouronelife.com/reflecto … ion=report that server1 consistently had some players.  If I understand correctly, 15 active players on a server come as required for gene score mechanics to be active, though I may easily be mistaken on this.  I had checked using Hetuw mod in tutorial areas that many of the players were of an 'unknown' family suggesting that either they were in tutorial/solo challenge areas or in a lineage without a name.  But, not all.  I thought I may as well play once, so my alias, Danish Clinch http://onehouronelife.com/fitnessServer … tail&id=55, would end up on the leaderboard, and that server1 seemed to have less risk with respect to decreasing my gene score.

I ended up as a white Eve: : http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6798287.  Well, that's as hard as it gets for an Eve if you ask me, since there's no special clothing available like seal skins, or foods like bananas and cactus fruits.  Iron just isn't useful until processed into tools.  Though, I did know to look for a spot that had iron veins.

My first daughter Youa Spoon was a new player.  I could tell she struggled, but she asked me a few questions.  My second daughter Lovely Spoon I didn't get a new player pop up on.  I wondered if she needed help, but when I saw her about to cook eggs, I thought she was good, and she lived to 60.  I did lose some points from my granddaughter Jenny Spoon.  But, she died to a wolf and we weren't exactly near the badlands.  Her final words were 'leader'.  Maybe she went out to the badlands to get resources?  We had a spring in the edge of a swamp, without too much blocking objects around.

I got skewers to farm with.  Then my daughter Youa starts talking about needed a hoe.  I think she picked up on that *some* skewers can get used to farm though as I tiled with them in front of her.  I also grew some carrots.  She got bite by a boar.  She came back to camp and said "THANKS"  "YOU WERE A REAL ONE".  I went right to check for iron on the right side of our ley line (I had already checked the left side... I prefer to move all iron off of veins once a well site is made, before blacksmithing).  I ended up giving out some orders like 'get straight branches' and 'grow carrots' around that time.  I started smithing and one of my descendants wants to smith also.  She's very young and gets the starving emote... but she stayed alive.  I'm trying to make an axe and shovel before I die.  She uses the hammer to make a steel hoe head.  I do make the shovel.  I hit some more so that the steel hoe head becomes an axe.  I drop the hammer and she makes a steel hoe head.  I said 'make axe next'.  She did have a point that a steel hoe head can be useful early for farming purposes, and the village needs food.  Of course though, most veterans prefer the axe early to get a large slow fire going.  Maybe I should have held the hammer, but I forgot I could do that at the time while playing.

I didn't make an oven.  It's good to get an oven up or have someone cook some pies in an Eve camp, but many Eves do smithing, because it's hard to rely on anyone who can smith well being around, and there's not a large slow fire until possible until an axe is made.  I didn't dig up any tule stumps for adobe with the shovel I made.

I felt like it was sort of a rough life for me, as I had a disconnect, and fumbled around with movement in some places.

If anyone reading this played in that Spoon lineage, of course, feel free to comment here.  Or if you feel strongly that I should have held the axe and overruled the young smith (I don't recall her name, and don't think I even looked unfortunately), maybe that's good for a comment.  A large slow fire burns out in 4 minutes instead of 1 minute for a fire, and 2 minutes for a large fast fire.  Both a fire and large fast fire require kindling also.  A large slow fire does not, with preferably firewood used to keep the large slow fire burning. 

Also, if you're new to the game, try to learn how yum works, and about the many types of foods in this game.  For example, uncooked pies are white and unedible, while cooked pies are colored and thus edible.  Your future families will need a greater variety of food types the older they get, and the more players that yum, the less resources a family will consume, and the greater the opportunity they will have.

Final note: if it wasn't click from looking the Danish Clinch link, my gene score did increase from 53.375 to 53.59 over that life.

#2 Re: Main Forum » Newb Baby booms! Jason please read » Today 03:53:43

schmloo wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:

Or if individual mothers had a baby cap to prevent one woman becoming the mother of millions.    This would also have the effect of giving experienced mothers more time to teach their new children.

It’s been a while, so please correct me if I’m wrong, but is there not already a cap of four per-mother?

The cap is four living children prevents another birth when possible.  I think that means that players still can get more children if no other fertile mothers exist and no more Eves come as needed (though I don't have an idea what 'come as needed' exactly, other than not having different race specialists).  Also, if one has three living children, one can still get twins, triplets, or quads even with the cap mechanics preventing future births to that woman.

#3 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: get reborn to your descendants after living to old age » Today 03:28:07

jasonrohrer wrote:

Down-sides?

If one lives to 60, one can't get born somewhere else and bring specialty resources to that place (without using /die) from another family's biome, if one has descendants still living when one logs in. 

Maybe it might make some sense to put blank paper, and a charcoal pencil inside of a property fence for exchange purposes in an anticipated future life?  Or maybe that way you could have some sort of story that you hear from your descendants?

Thinking more about it this mechanic has a very strange aspect to it as another downside.  If a family lives and you were male, then you have descendants.  But, a woman can avoid the mechanic while still living to 60, by becoming homesick.  It's very odd for men to have descendants as a result of the actions of others without a way to opt out of having descendants, while women can opt out of having descendants by getting and remaining homesick.  It strikes me as creepy and sexist.

If you think the above wrong, how would male characters living to 60 opt out getting reborn in the same family while still having descendants without... perish the thought... killing their nieces?

If this game had mating mechanics as necessary for men to have descendants, the above wouldn't apply.  I don't think I like this as it stands.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-28 03:44:31

DestinyCall wrote:

I am aware that we are talking about a paved road, but I am confused why that matters.

It matters with respect to whether or not a paved road is vital for resource transfers (trading, stealing, or gifting), between villages.  It simply can't be vital with respect to resource transfers, because resource transfer between villages had to have happened to make the paved road in the first place, since it requires rubber (and thus sulfur, latex, and palm oil were needed) to make an engine for a paver, and kerosene to use.

DestinyCall wrote:

Personally, I enjoy the rhythm of building a flat stone road and I prefer them for short paths or for connecting individual villages to a main road, but building flat stone roads is very time intensive.

Using a cart, yes.  Using a rubber tire cart not as much.  Using a rubber tire horsecart not as much.  Using a truck even less.  People sometimes build roads to mines along their ley line.  Bands are 200 tiles tall.  It might be interesting to see if one can build a flat stone road connecting a village to one expert waystone not in their specialty biome, or if playing as female connecting two areas near expert waystones in one's next life.

Edit: Maybe not.

#5 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-28 01:57:19

DestinyCall wrote:

Is it possible that NoTruePunk was working on extending the road when those babies starved?

Yes. 

But, he didn't feed five children enough who die before the age of three.  Their final letter in all cases is 'F'.  That sure looks like an issue with the mother not feeding children.  NoTruePunk makes a comment on November 11th in the update notes here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p?id=10234 which suggests to me that he knows at least something about how the fertility system works.  He's made comments elsewhere indicative of such if I recall correctly.  So, there exists evidence that he knows he wouldn't be fertile outside of his band.  The paved road is approximately 7 tiles away from the mountain-tan border where a white no longer will be fertile.  Maybe I should say approximately 6 tiles instead.  One doesn't have to run inside of the mountain band area the entire time to travel to the next tree, big hard rock, or whatever needs removed.  Skewers and stakes come as needed to jag a paved road around something like a bear cave sometimes, and those can get found in many grasslands, so no need for a white to stay in a mountain biome.  Additionally, one could build roads outside of one's home band before 40 as a woman and then build inside of it at 40.  If one builds roads to waystones as white for all specialty biomes, most of those roads can end up outside of one's band.

Even if one suspects a lineage might die out by not having children, and one is the last woman in a village, is the choice to not have any children at all by leaving one's biome band griefing, since men can't have children, and also many females players for one reason or another, just don't have children?  Is the choice to not have children ever griefing since children of men mode exists?  Why would having children be a responsibility at one point in time and not a responsibility at another point in time?

I'm guessing someone else feels a bit flabbergasted with your response, and even more so now with more facts in mind, and maybe even the above questions about the status of the choice to not having children.   I'll say that for building roads to waystones, those roads can go north, south, and diagonally.  If juggling children is a difficulty when road building, wouldn't it work out as best to consider not having children at all or rarely stand inside of one's home biome band at least?  I mean, even if not having children in such a way ends a lineage, it doesn't seem as harsh on children saying 'F' and them starving before age 3, because one didn't or couldn't, I suppose, feed them.

Yes, you have a point about Mang Peaches.  The person there keeps getting talked about as a destructive actor.

Edit: Road building can be more efficient, of course, with a horsecart or truck than a cart.  I think one can pick up a cart at 13.  It's 16 to use a truck, right?  If using a truck, one might need some time inside of one's home band.  But, unless one has quads at 14, and Punk doesn't seem to have had quads, one still has the power to control fertility in the sense of saying 'no' to children by getting outside of one's home band and staying outside of it fairly soon after being able to drive a truck.  So, I think the point about fertility control holds up with respect to road building holds up for the most part.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-28 00:10:32

DestinyCall wrote:

Eve camps don't need rubber.   Eve camps don't need oil.  But there comes a point where an older village does need those things.   That is the point when the road serves a vital purpose, by speeding up travel between distant families.   There are other ways to achieve the same objective, but that does not negate the importance of a long road.

So to get clear, we were talking about a paved road, not a flat rock road.  Destiny, have you forgotten how an engine gets made?  Have you looked into what is needed for oil?  It's necessary to have rubber to make a newcomen atmospheric core to make a newcomen multipurpose engine to make pipes for to drill for oil.  A paver involves an engine.  According to Merriam Webster's vital means of the utmost importance:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vital

A paved road thus can't be vital for a family to obtain those resources, since no family would have been able to make a paver without getting specialty resources in the first place, or having relevant objects from those specialty resources.

Also, an east-west road running through the center mountain band area of the map won't tell you a direction to go if the road gets built for exchange purposes.  For exchange purposes, it would be better to build roads towards areas with expert waystones.  They don't have to go into areas with waystones, just near them.  Travel wise, it's faster to travel along diagonal roads than roads going up and then turning left or right.  So, old style flat rock roads can work out faster for trading purposes, since they can get built diagonally with ease.

#7 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-27 23:44:55

DestinyCall wrote:

Are you suggesting that NoTruePunk secretly desires to spread out Eve spawns even further and his efforts to build a giant road to connect distant towns is actually a clever ruse to throw off suspicion from his true motivations?

NoTruePunk complains about families not surviving through "the night" here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p?id=10291 and then gets involved in killing off a family in the same time period a few days later.  He's worried about Eve spawns spreading things out, and then contributes to another Eve spawn happening.  I don't trust him.  I think anyone reading this should consider if they think he's trustworthy.

#8 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-27 22:05:48

NoTruePunk played as Mona Peaches, as one can learn by reading the discord.  There exist several users who say this first and likely use leader board information.  NoTruePunk said himself:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I think I was mona
milkman lives
idk what the hell was wrong with my children

Mona Peaches starved 5 children: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6775626

NoTruePunk says:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Our biggest enemy in this game is the eve spawn pushing us further out ...

But, he helped to starve out a lineage, and thus contributed to producing another Eve spawn.

#9 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-27 18:48:09

DestinyCall wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk said:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I just want to build a road.

As a phrase of speech, that isn't a way of speaking truly.  It isn't speaking in an honest manner.

And I just want you to realize that everything doesn't need to be so black or white.   That doesn't mean I don't have other stuff going on in my life.   

If you take everything this literally, it must feel like everyone is lying all the time.

To Destiny and everyone else:

Please do a search for Mona Peaches in the discord before commenting further.  I wish I were being too suspicious of NoTruePunk's character or overly harsh as perhaps Destiny suggests I am.  But, that doesn't make certain things acceptable, even with other things going on in one's life.

#10 Re: Main Forum » Your first grief? » 2020-11-27 17:23:43

Eve Troll wrote:

There was this perfect point in the rift. Before tool slots, where if the rift was taken down the game would be almost perfect imo.

Wasn't there something like a trail of babies following moms at the end of the Rift sometimes?  I found this post and its link: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8215

#11 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-27 17:07:37

DestinyCall wrote:

That's not how figures of speech work.  They are non-literal.   So a figure of speech is not intended to be "true" or "false" in the same way as a statement of fact.   When you kick the bucket, no actual bucket needs to get kicked.  When you   have butterflies in your stomach, there are no actual bugs in your belly.   The words mean something different from the literal interpretation.   Assuming a literal meaning is false and leads to confusion and misunderstandings.

NoTruePunk said:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I just want to build a road.

As a phrase of speech, that isn't a way of speaking truly.  It isn't speaking in an honest manner.

DestinyCall wrote:

All families are tied together due to certain game mechanics that I know you are already aware of.   The ones that require certain skin tones to access certain biomes to collect certain resources.   You know the ones I am talking about.

I've spent many lives traveling to Eve camps and getting them specialty biome resources.  I've also seen similar traveling for resources happen on Twitch.  The traveling is north-southish or diagonal.  NoTruePunk's road is horizontal.  It can be helpful, but no it's not vital.

DestinyCall wrote:

You do not need the road to start an Eve camp, but if you expect that family to survive beyond a certain point, the village will need access to rubber and oil.   The road gives you access to other families and, through them, you gain access to those resources.   That is why the road is vital.

No, NoTruePunk's road doesn't give one access to other families, unless they have their towns on the west-east paved road, and they haven't usually from what I've seen.  One can walk without the road.  Or maybe use a horsecart or horse or truck without it also.  To get access to those other families you need to travel north or south or diagonally, not horizontally in the central mountain band.

Also, if I recall correctly, there was no paved road section directly below Mushroom Gorge.  It started back up again west of it.  I would guess that Krauts didn't use a paved road section much, if at all.  Both Krauts and Spoons lasted longer than any of the current Eves on this week's deep roots.  187 generations for Krauts: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6756267  160 generations for Spoons: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6760220  114 generations for Wolfs: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6769735 and 114 generations for Hyuns: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6764841

From multiple points of view, I'm finding NoTruePunk's road not vital.

#12 Re: Main Forum » Your first grief? » 2020-11-27 16:30:02

Eve Troll wrote:

It is very clear there are people who play this game who want to live in a perfect world.

When I think about this it strikes me as odd.  With a world where one goes in knowing that one is going to inevitably die, and the same will happen to everyone else, how would the world ever be perfect?

Eve Troll wrote:

  It limits the human elements that are really the only interesting parts of this game.

I find this very strange to hear from someone who has spent a significant amount of time pumping oil on bs2 and playing in a low pop context, often enough by himself.

Eve Troll wrote:

But im sure you see how biome restrictions have limited diversity.

The putting of deserts, tundras, and jungles in mountain biomes only was biome restrictions.  The changing of character abilities with at least 15 players on a server were race restrictions.  Yes, biome restrictions limited diversity.  The temperature overhaul also involved biome restrictions, in that they could no longer have interactive effects with each others.  Yes, those biome restrictions limited diversity.  Specialty biomes also got restricted in terms of what could grow in them.  And that limited diversity also.

Eve Troll wrote:

There will always be a new zone and it will likely be more annoying and destructive than the last.

Yes, and that's a reason why it would be better if serial destructive players got banned.

Eve Troll wrote:

  Now you get cursed for minor stuff willy nilly because its the only power people have over each other. Old system was better.

Willy nilly cursing can at least sometimes get undone fairly simply and quickly.  On the other hand your baby getting eaten by a bear or stabbed by some jerk can't or comes as complicated and difficult to undo.

#13 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-27 15:42:37

Cogito wrote:

I guess you won this irrelevant point Spoon!

Seriously, it was a phrase of speech. They posted asking people to help them build the road, you go off on a tangent about the impact of building the road, and they say (paraphrasing) "no, actually I just care about the road building, not everything else you're talking about".

As a phrase of speech it's still not true.

Again, NoTruePunk says:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.

He also said:

NoTruePunk wrote:

The road is an incredibly vital resource, as it lets us find one another quickly without relying on way stones, facilitates looting of dead towns from east to west and helps resetting from west to east. Our biggest enemy in this game is the eve spawn pushing us further out, which makes the road our last line of defense!

I don't see how I've taken that phrase out of context, by referring to the original post by the same author.

Also, how would not having the central road kill player characters or lineages?  How does Eve spawning pushing characters further out kill families?  NoTruePunk's claim is that the road is vital, not merely convenient.  Do you really think that's the case?  Do you really think Eves spawning further that big of an enemy?

#14 Re: Main Forum » Your first grief? » 2020-11-27 08:04:39

Eve Troll wrote:

Building this world without murder and griefers doesnt exist. And civilization is full of griefers, why should the game be any different?

In order to play a social game with other people, you and the other people have to play by the same moral code.  Destructive players aren't playing by the same moral code, and in the worst cases have no moral code whatsoever.  The game thus should be different as it can be, because that way it remains or could become a social game and possibly even have real teamwork.

Why should griefers be allowed to play the game?  They aren't looking to play the game in what its spirit should be, whatever that could be.  So what if they exist in civilization?  Civilization takes steps to lessen or minimize the effects of that behavior.  It develops systems so that behavior becomes less likely.  Or at least a good civilization would do so.  Keeping serial destructive players around works the opposite way.  It makes that behavior more likely, more effectively, and shows how morally corrupt the game is, and has been from its foundations.  It ensures that the game isn't art, and is just a bunch of code that people use.

Eve Troll wrote:

I really dont get why people had such a problem with the killing elements.  It was easy to deal with.

As a one hour one life game, the game has a permadeath feature.  Before healing, one was just dead.  There was NO way to deal with such killing, one's character was just dead.  I don't think people find making pads easy initially.  And then some destructive players learned how to corrupt the healing process.  And if a camp doesn't have pads, there's no way to deal with the killing elements once affected by them, if one is playing the character.  One's character is just dead.  In many cases the killing elements aren't easy to deal with.  In many cases the killing elements are impossible to deal with for characters and their players.

#15 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-27 07:10:24

NoTruePunk wrote:

I just want to build a road.

You said above:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.

So, I don't think you just want to build a road.

#16 Re: Main Forum » Your first grief? » 2020-11-26 23:50:10

Tea wrote:

Let me offer you my point of view on why the "old days" were in some ways better and more fun. You see, when I first played this game, people died instantly when bitten by a snake, boar or bear or even killed by a knife. We were paranoid going behind trees because the chances of there being a snake behind it was pretty high. When killed by a knife or arrow, there wasn't even a pile of bones in a pool of blood, you just drop dead.
When your mom gave you a name, you had to try and remember it because names and family names didn't even exist yet. Baskets were decaying and carrots that were stored in them, were thrown on empty tiles as soon as they did. It was the wild west back then.

Less exploration of the landscape was possible because of instant death.  No one could conceivably get healed.  I don't see how baskets decaying like that was better.  I don't see anything better there.

Tea wrote:

Families and towns don't last long enough to even leave a legacy behind.

I think families last longer than they did for most of the time periods you've described.

Tea wrote:

Stealing, murdering, lying, betrayal, etc. (all things that people consider as griefing by the way) can be found in any civilization at any time. So why not in a game who's main goal is to build a civilization with other players. Why not have all the elements that surrounds a civilization.

Those things best not get encouraged and get discouraged, because those things aren't about civilization building or parenting.  They aren't about rebuilding civilization from scratch.  They are inconsistent with the concepts that Jason has said this game is about.  Also, those things still exist in game, as I've seen some of them recently, and will necessarily exist, because of human nature.  But, There's a world of difference between encouraging those things and them happening sometimes. 

We all end up better off to recognize bad things as bad.  When/if we start viewing stealing, murdering, lying, and betrayal as good in a game, we can become confused with respect to good moral judgment.  Encouraging those things to exist in a game thus encourages the failure of our moral judgments.  And that isn't good for us.  I think also, that a necessary part of real civilization building also is good moral judgment.

Tea wrote:

I got bored doing the same tasks in a town over and over again.

Alright.  Why not go to another town then?

Tea wrote:

How can you possibly say that someone is lying about how they feel when playing the game.

Because Hailerm has said some other things which indicate those feelings as not his true feelings, or more complex than he realizes at least.

Tea wrote:

To reiterate, there are people with bad intentions in every civilization, so why shouldn't those people play that role in this game.

Because they aren't playing the game consistent with its concepts as advertised and described, and they actively hinder those trying to play the game consistent with its concepts as advertised and described.  Why should people play a multiplayer game, when they aren't trying to play in a multiplayer fashion with cooperative play, but instead trying to thwart any real or significant multiplayer playing of that game?  How could there exist a *real* multiplayer game with bad actors running amok and the power to destroy the multiplayer nature of that game so well? 

Last I checked, we don't call criminals civilized.  Likewise it makes no sense at all to treat destructive players as if they were civilized.  It seems to me that you treat destructive players as civilized by saying that they have some role in the game.  That seems to me like a failure in moral judgment, because bad behavior should clearly get recognized as bad.  Likewise, Jason talking about griefers having a role in this game indicates a serious failing in moral judgment on his part, because it's treating bad actions as if they were actually good.

Tea wrote:

However, some people were telling Jason to fix the griefing "issue" by banning them entirely from the game, adding the curse system, etc. I would have loved to see a justice system put into place, giving us players the necessary tools to capture and bring them to justice for their action.

That might have been interesting with complex and difficult decisions for players.  But also, justice systems in the real world reserve the right to the harshest penalties.  Players would likewise need the right to reserve to the harshest penalty, permanent banning from the game on all public servers.  Unless I've misunderstood something, Jason doesn't even have that right, because he didn't have an end user license agreement when he started selling access to his servers and still doesn't have one.  And he says "Lifetime server account" on onehouronelife.com.  So a player driven justice system, just couldn't happen, or he'd have even more serious problems with honesty.

#17 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-26 21:48:21

Eve Troll wrote:

Only glazed over this but the term looting really only applies when someone still owns the resources, or the resources dont belong to them. I perceive this as either stealing from a living town, or taking items from dead towns outside your band.

I looked up looting after reading your comment, and it seems like my use is unconventional.

Eve Troll wrote:

Sometimes this is necessary.

I agree it's sometimes necessary to transfer resources from dead towns.  But, in a game that is supposed to be about rebuilding from scratch (or was), and still gets advertised that way, doesn't that signal an issue?  Like has your family pulled their weight and earned things if they rely on resources that the dead left behind?

Eve Troll wrote:

But to preserve resources from old towns and move them west is smart. Even with people doing that, hundreds of hours of collective work is lost with movement. I think preserving that is a show of respect to previous generations.

The term generation applies players withing a family.  It strikes me as weird to use it to apply to other families who were chronologically prior.  I think we should keep in mind that the dead town's characters are dead.  Though we may know the people behind them, those characters are dead.  How would they feel about other families using resources that they got for their family?  Sure, they might be willing to share, and then taking those resources seems like a sign of respect.  But, they might want other families to get those resources themselves, in which case, it doesn't sound so much like respect.

Eve Troll wrote:

For me things really only get interesting once the mine has collapsed and kerosene is available.

Well, then I think there would be cause to take kerosene from dead towns, but never take iron or steel.  Why do you find things interesting then?  Is it because you don't have to do any hungry work?  Or because you probably would do best to think about the balance of using kerosene for water vs. using kerosene for iron?  Both?

#18 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-26 19:54:42

NoTruePunk wrote:

I do agree that we should resettle less, but disagree strongly that looting is bad. Looting almost always happens east to west, which means it's a force to counter the eve spawns. Resettling on the other hand happens west to east which exacerbates the eve spawn drifting away.

Looting leaves behind a shell of a town no eve would want to settle in, which means people are actually MORE likely to start over.

I was referring to looting things for a purpose.  Like taking loom clothes to an Eve camp so that they have something to wear, which despite it's downsides, has a nice side towards people.  Or taking kerosene tanks and an engine to a town and making a vault early on, which again, despite that it can get considered a cheat, could help out a one vein town or work well for water purposes.  Neither of those involve families starting over, and when players do so continuously for new towns, they start over less.

Looting for purposes of people becoming more likely to rebuild from scratch, would involve taking those objects from dead towns and losing them in a hard to find, hard to get into biome.  More like what Rey has done on occasion, and like a forum comment (oof... I forget that person's name) whose family died out and they took the family's engine and put into some specialty biome before the biome band update.

That said, I think, instead of transference of objects, if one wants to make it so that families are more likely to start over, and rebuild from scratch, it might be effective to lock up dead towns behind property fences.  No gates.  Or at least the important resources behind property fences.  If you see a vault in a dead town with a gate, put property fences in front of that gate.  I think that property fences don't decay based on real time, but like fire, change based on time since last seen, or something like that.  So, if enough people would lock up a dead town behind a fence, THAT might just lead to people no longer resettling, and new camps rebuilding from scratch more often.  But, that isn't looting at the very least.

NoTruePunk wrote:

This thread is about the road.

I talked about the implications of the road in my first comment, didn't I?  You want to road build fine.  But, whatever the consequences of doing such are, you would do best to fully understand the implications or what they are likely to be.

#19 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-26 18:56:21

NoTruePunk wrote:

The road is an incredibly vital resource, as it lets us find one another quickly without relying on way stones, facilitates looting of dead towns from east to west and helps resetting from west to east.

I think the last word is intended to mean resettling.

Finding one another quickly makes it easier for some players throwing advanced objects like loom clothes, or engines, and kerosone tanks at new camps.  Looting of dead towns isn't rebuilding civilization from scratch.  Such looting is a cheat on that concept.  The Steam advertisement talks about rebuilding civilization from scratch.  So did Jason a while back:

jasonrohrer wrote:

The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.

It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.

But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans.  So there was no apocalypse here.  There are no ruins.

The world is the imaginary space inside which this thought experiment plays out:

"If we had to start over from scratch, but kept all of our knowledge, how long would it take us to get back to iPhones?" where iPhones are a placeholder for whatever sufficiently advanced tech we can imagine."

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 896#p81896

But, there's no way of doing such a "thought experiment" meaingfully with looting of dead towns.

Resettling old towns from west where an Eve spawns to east, also isn't rebuilding from scratch.  It leads to situations like where Eve Fierros http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6768204 walks into Mushroom Gorge or a bit later.  Then that early family has high pip values for foods with a fair amount of variety of food around.  That might get described as a cheat on the food system.  And it's not just a player or two who wanders into a place like that from some earlier generation camp.  It's the entire family.

Such Eves who resettle also don't dig up any iron veins.  Additionally, because of such resettling from west to east, families end up spread out left to right even further, since new Eve spawns will happen and spread things out.  Road building plays a part in spreading families out, because it makes resettling of dead towns easier.  Resettling also pushes families apart even more, and your road encourages that.  Especially when families last a fair amount of time after resettling.

#20 Re: Bug Discussion » Families can't survive through the night » 2020-11-26 06:55:22

I saw the same four families a bit later at about 1:55 A. M. EST and they looked pretty even in terms of distribution, 7 in one, 9 in another, 8 in another, 7 in another, 5 in a fifth unknown lineage.

#21 Re: Bug Discussion » Families can't survive through the night » 2020-11-26 06:31:40

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

I have not read a single reply in this thread.

Baby distribution is all fucked up. It sends about half the server population to one family and the other fams will be struggling to get even a single girl.

Seriously I play at night at all the time and there will be 30 people online and 15 people will be in a single family.

Please fix this Jason

Case in point. Yikes took this screenshot 5 seconds ago, 12am est

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … nknown.png

How could he fix that without removing /die?  How could he control such distribution irregularity from happening, with a fertility queue with factors like temperature and yum?  How could he control for such irregular distribution of players happening because one family has weaker members and thus more early deaths?  How can he fix that with birth cool down in place and players joining in a sort of randomish pattern?  How could he control for that since different families start at different times?

Also Slinky, you showed that such happens.  But, what's the frequency of such happening?  Have you taken any measurements of family sizes at night over the course of an entire week?

There's likely a good number of factors at play which lead to such happening sometimes.  I'm uncertain as to how many of them can get controlled, and how many of them come as worth controlling.

#22 Re: Main Forum » WIP: Mapping One Hour One Life » 2020-11-26 05:31:23

Cogito wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

Someone making a shape of a penis, or breast or some other anatomical parts for that matter in game isn't necessarily destructive.  On the contrary, such behavior might qualify as an attempt to try to "build civilization", as art consists of one form of "civilization building" in the real world.  Or do you feel inclined to dismiss The Statue of David and ancient Greek sculpture as part of civilization?

We're talking about an annotation tool that would let you draw on Wondible's map. TTP is a legitimate concern for people who host user generated art, and my point was simply that having local only annotations, that could be shared, avoids that problem entirely.

Thanks for the explanation.  What you've said makes more sense to me now.

#23 Re: Main Forum » WIP: Mapping One Hour One Life » 2020-11-26 04:10:52

Cogito wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
Cogito wrote:

I was envisioning globally shared annotations, but local only and imports/exports could avoid the pain and mess of user logins and penises.

I can't guess at your meaning on this one.  This needs an edit or an explanation as to why the last word got used.

There are two big pains to deal with if you have a canvas that anyone can draw on and that is shared.

The first is managing user logins, so that you can keep track of who did what (for example, so I can see *my* annotations vs other annotations)

The other is that people will draw penises. It's known as the TTP (time-to-penis) problem, and is explained in detail in the Apple TV show 'Mythic Quest'.

You can't stop people drawing penises, but you don't necessarily want to host user generated data because of the headaches that can come along with it.

The Statue of David is a very well respected piece of art and has a penis.  Ancient Greek art has plenty of representations of penises in sculpture.  The game has penises naturally, and the game without penises is a mod.  It seems like a mere assumption to me that a penis representation is a problem, and may well reflect cultural or personal prejudice against representation of a male body part, if not also suggest some form of misandry.

Someone making a shape of a penis, or breast or some other anatomical parts for that matter in game isn't necessarily destructive.  On the contrary, such behavior might qualify as an attempt to try to "build civilization", as art consists of one form of "civilization building" in the real world.  Or do you feel inclined to dismiss The Statue of David and ancient Greek sculpture as part of civilization?

#24 Re: Main Forum » Your first grief? » 2020-11-26 03:49:50

hailerm wrote:

The problem is i dont like to play alone ALL THE TIME atleast in dt i have a goal make a plane and go with the other ppl thats the fun thats why i liked to play in DT but now theres no point to play in DT atleast for me

Maybe you could use a bot to play with.

hailerm wrote:

I can tell u are old man in his 40s is so obvious but hey i didnt say u or others cant decide what can they do in their life but the problem is at frist u start cooking then u get bored of that then u start farming then work on the forge make engines, make roads, trade etc i do all those things in this game i was not a "griefer" i was the "good" guy but i get tired of that and then i start griefing and since the frist time i grief i knew i find my place in ohol...
even so knowing that many people would hate me, I went ahead and just as you choose what you want to be, I chose what I wanted to be and im happy with my decision

You complain about being in DonkeyTown, and are happy with your decision?  You said killing someone was boring, and you are happy with your decision?  You use swear words and get aggressive against a whole group of people you don't really know, and you're happy?  Emotions can be complex.  But, it still sounds like you're more unhappy than happy.

#25 Main Forum » Iron and Trading Conversation » 2020-11-26 01:55:12

Spoonwood
Replies: 0

I played in Morgan family yesterday as a nameless character: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6769678  Hectic start.  I'm born in the wilderness apparently, with my mother saying "I DON'T NEED YOU", but she did pick me up.  Then she tells me to "WAIT HERE", and I'm not near the fire or any structure.  I don't believe she's going to come back to feed me, so, I scramble following here, and find the main fire, and others feed me.  One of the elders says she brought a bear to town, and we get down to the last bite or two of pies.  I had been there earlier as a white walking to their town, though I don't want to mention the character's name, because I don't want the specter of politics here.  I usually will take a pepper and tomato when I go to a new family, but I didn't on purpose that life, since I was going to tans.  It felt kind of strange to see a tan town at generation 10 who hadn't gotten tomatoes and peppers, especially since the jungle is kind of close to Morgan's town.  Maybe I have too high expectations of players who don't know much about the game or something.

Anyways, the camp feels rough and undeveloped.  I don't think it's a good choice to leave town for exchange purposes.  In Hetuw chat though some whom plays Whites gets talking, and then later NoTruePunk joins in.  The following isn't exact or even a good paraphrase, but I think it gets the point across.  I didn't have any intention of looking for a way to increase the potential iron supply for tans that life, as there seemed too much else to do.

Someone: Whites need latex and palm oil.

Spoonwood: Tans have only one mine.  Can you bring us some iron?

Someone: No.

later...

NoTruePunk: Whites need latex and palm oil.

Spoonwood: Tans need iron.

NoTruePunk: Whites are going to die.  We need latex and palm oil.

Spoonwood: Tans have only one mine.  Bring us iron.

NoTruePunk: Loot a dead town for iron.

There's two Github reports about the iron system: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/691 .  Jason responded that the iron system should motivate trade.  The response was that the iron system motivates looting: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/698 .  In fairness, playing as a black last Wednesday a few days before this there was some white of a member of Krauts who came to the blacks town and dropped iron and wanted some sulfur.  I had dropped two bowls of sulfur in the latex buckets in Krauts town before that.  I didn't feel blacks needed the iron at the time, though I didn't check their mines to see if they were likely to be able to pull their own weight in that regard.  But, there wasn't time to explain that, and the white took the bowls of sulfur I had, and dropped iron, left, and said "NICE DOING BUSINESS WITH YOU".  Thing was, even if I had stayed in town, I would have given her the sulfur that life for free.

Oh, and did tans end up trading for iron (or steel), like at all?  Does anyone reading this know?  Or did they just loot a dead town?  And what did having only one mine motivate you to do?  Trade with whites, or loot a dead town?

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