Posse Fail

DestinyCall · 2020-06-26 13:34:45

Could someone explain to me how the current posse system works in small words? I am beyond frustrated right now.

I rarely kill people, so when it becomes necessary, I always have to re-learn the kill mechanics from scratch. In my most recent life, I was leader of a peaceful village until a disruptive griefer showed up and started wrecking stuff. We noticed her activities and cursed her pretty fast. But of course, she continued to disrupt the town's food supply and cause problems, so I decided that she needed to die. The next twenty minutes were wasted as me and four or five other people ran around groweling at her without actually doing anything. She would gasp and I would stand around growling. People would join me and we would all growl. She would run off and we would follow. She would stand still in the middle of town, stripping berries off the plant and eating them while we surrounded her with knives and growled impotently. I tried to exile her, but I have never exiled anyone and probably used the wrong command. Nothing happened.

Eventually I died of old age, still in a posse with three other adults and a little boy. None of us managed to land a blow on her and she wasn't even trying to run away anymore.

Lava · 2020-06-26 13:41:15

Your supposed to exile her before you start the posse on her

DestinyCall · 2020-06-26 13:44:32

So you can't posse kill without exiling? I just thought exiling made it easier to kill.

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-06-26 15:00:48

You technically can, but the posse need number can be VERY high. About a week ago we had at least 7-8 people in a posse but we were all just standing there growling and nothing happening

The system is annoying, but exiling works very well. Most people don't expect the shot in the chest to go through and will just stand there.

JonySky · 2020-06-26 15:30:26

Some time ago I played on a low population server, I tried to create a town from 0 and when I started to get iron, I did not succeed ...
I found a Loose Muddy Iron Vein but for some reason I did not get iron ... after 10 minutes leave and close the game

Also a long time ago I joined a gang to kill a griefer and the process was so complicated that I don't know how we managed to kill the griefer (we spent 10 minutes trying to kill the griefer in the middle of a ridiculous grunt choreography)

the excess of written commands make OHOL a complicated game without reason and tedious, in addition to chasing away non-English speaking players

When English is not your mother tongue, using these commands and writing them correctly is not easy

I have been playing this game for 2 years and I am not a novice, I have even followed the development of OHOL and read the notes of the updates ... now imagine a new player

Last edited by JonySky (2020-06-26 15:31:31)

Arcurus · 2020-06-26 15:36:21

JonySky wrote:

Some time ago I played on a low population server, I tried to create a town from 0 and when I started to get iron, I did not succeed ...
I found a Loose Muddy Iron Vein but for some reason I did not get iron ... after 10 minutes leave and close the game
Also a long time ago I joined a gang to kill a griefer and the process was so complicated that I don't know how we managed to kill the griefer (we spent 10 minutes trying to kill the griefer in the middle of a ridiculous grunt choreography)
the excess of written commands make OHOL a complicated game without reason and tedious, in addition to chasing away non-English speaking players
When English is not your mother tongue, using these commands and writing them correctly is not easy
I have been playing this game for 2 years and I am not a novice, I have even followed the development of OHOL and read the notes of the updates ... now imagine a new player

did some one say iron?

yes the posse / exile / leader system is currently quite tricky.

the exile bug, that exile counts only before the posse starts is reported on github:
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/837

jasonrohrer · 2020-06-26 17:29:48

Once someone is exiled, you don't need a posse at all.

Any single person can kill them, alone. But the posse system speeds up the killers.

In fact, the posse system will probably removed in the future, though I need to think about this more....

I agree that the system has become too complicated.

But it's a complicated problem to solve. How to let the "good guys" kill when they need to, but prevent the "bad guys" from killing.

DestinyCall · 2020-06-26 17:30:55

How do you exile someone?

I have managed to avoid learning anything about leadership and never bothered to memorize any of the different commands. I tried to just say "i exile you" and I exile [name]", based on how the follow mechanic works, but apparently that does nothing.

Lava · 2020-06-26 17:46:01

Go up to them and say I exile you. I tried by name but it didn’t work so I always do I exile you

jasonrohrer · 2020-06-26 17:52:47

Also, I know this doesn't help non-English people....

But when you try to kill someone, instructions pop up on the screen explaining how many allies and enemies the person has, and how big the posse needs to be. And your character speaks information about who can exile that person, and you get an arrow pointing to that leader.

So it's not like these mechanics are totally hidden or need to be memorized.

I just noticed that once someone is sufficiently exiled to be solo killed, there's no explanation given to the killer letting them know that solo killing this target is possible. I'll fix that with a DING message explaining the situation.

antking:]# · 2020-06-26 18:12:42

jasonrohrer wrote:

Also, I know this doesn't help non-English people....
But when you try to kill someone, instructions pop up on the screen explaining how many allies and enemies the person has, and how big the posse needs to be. And your character speaks information about who can exile that person, and you get an arrow pointing to that leader.
So it's not like these mechanics are totally hidden or need to be memorized.

I just noticed that once someone is sufficiently exiled to be solo killed, there's no explanation given to the killer letting them know that solo killing this target is possible. I'll fix that with a DING message explaining the situation.

I don't know much about code but would it be possible to create a program that would translate things in game? such as being able to choose a language and then in game seeing that language

Arcurus · 2020-06-26 18:51:47

DestinyCall wrote:

How do you exile someone?
I have managed to avoid learning anything about leadership and never bothered to memorize any of the different commands. I tried to just say "i exile you" and I exile [name]", based on how the follow mechanic works, but apparently that does nothing.

has some one tried it out recently? Is there a bug with exiling some one by naming him?

A known reported bug is currently that you need to exile him bevor the posse starts.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-06-26 18:53:00)

DestinyCall · 2020-06-26 19:09:23

Well that is weird, because I tried "I exile you" and "I exile [full name]".

I did not get any kind of notification saying it worked or failed to work. When I initiated the posse attack (multiple times) I noticed my character talking about how I could exile the person that I targeted. That was actually what prompted me to TRY to exile the griefer, since I had completely forgotten exile was meaningful up until that point.

And as a side note, I found it VERY WEIRD to have my own character telling me that I could do something as a player. Huge fourth wall violation right there. That really felt like info that should have been communicated to me by the game in a different manner, rather than coming from my avatar as a first person "inner voice" thing. I seriously did a double-take and thought I had done something to cause a random text to generate. It wasn't until the second or third time it happened that I was able to focus on my character enough to realize it was being triggered by the posse formation.

There was also some other popup with a really long message that looked pretty important - something about how many people we needed to make a posse ... but I couldn't read it in time because it went away too fast and I was trying not to drop my knife or starve to death while tracking a rapidly fleeing blonde woman holding a roasted turkey.

DestinyCall · 2020-06-26 19:18:30

antking:]# wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Also, I know this doesn't help non-English people....
But when you try to kill someone, instructions pop up on the screen explaining how many allies and enemies the person has, and how big the posse needs to be. And your character speaks information about who can exile that person, and you get an arrow pointing to that leader.
So it's not like these mechanics are totally hidden or need to be memorized.

I just noticed that once someone is sufficiently exiled to be solo killed, there's no explanation given to the killer letting them know that solo killing this target is possible. I'll fix that with a DING message explaining the situation.
I don't know much about code but would it be possible to create a program that would translate things in game? such as being able to choose a language and then in game seeing that language

I don't know much about code either, but I do know enough about languages to say with confidence "no, that is not in the scope of this game."

Automatic translation is very complex. Play around with Google Translate sometime, if you want to have a big laugh. It tries so hard and fails so spectacularly. If Jason could work out a way to seamless translate player-inputted text between languages in real-time, he could retire a wealthy man.

JonySky · 2020-06-26 20:37:13

jasonrohrer wrote:

Once someone is exiled, you don't need a posse at all.
Any single person can kill them, alone. But the posse system speeds up the killers.

In fact, the posse system will probably removed in the future, though I need to think about this more....

I agree that the system has become too complicated.
But it's a complicated problem to solve. How to let the "good guys" kill when they need to, but prevent the "bad guys" from killing.

Jason, the problem with murders is easier than you think.
The solution begins with a question that only you should ask yourself: are murders allowed in OHOL? Yes or no?
if the answer is YES, be fair and balanced with the 2 parts (the defender and the attacker)

Don't install a system that allows a single player to exterminate an entire family, nor allow a system that only 1 person can kill another ... that's unfair to everyone

OHOL currently has an unfair system, no matter who uses it, the system is unfair to both sides (attacker and defender)

If the system is unbalanced there will be the killings of entire families, and there will also be untouchable griefers

As has been said many times in this forum, build a skill based system, skills that can be learned by everyone

If you do not want to go back to the era of the swords of war, you can create: shields, armor, more possibilities to heal wounded, do not kill with the first and only blow, generate the second blow (even in PVP games you do not kill with Only 1 bullet or hit, multiple hits or shots are required)

Another simple solution is that of the OHOL commands and the continuous writing of various commands.

Here I say: Can't integrate a system like the one that had ARMA II to execute orders? the secondary button is not used at all in OHOL ... because we cannot press the secondary button and have the options without writing them

There are many solutions that other games have adapted and have worked very well, and these solutions are intuitive and easy to use even if you don't write English regularly.

I also recommend you avoid posting informational texts continuously in OHOL, these continuous messages cause a disinformation effect or rather, of information poisoning

Imagine driving on a highway full of traffic signs, imagine that every kilometer of that highway you will find a sign reporting something different continuously ... after a while you will stop paying attention ... this is what happens in OHOL

Last edited by JonySky (2020-06-26 20:44:06)

Legs · 2020-06-26 20:59:12

The reasoning behind intention-based combat in ohol is that skill-based combat gives skilled players power over unskilled players. Intention-based combat is fair: everyone get one vote. That's the idea of a posse. This idea failed in practice, so now we have the exile system. Which still gives skilled players power over less skilled players, it's just about gene score rather than mechanical skill.

Arcurus · 2020-06-26 21:06:21

Legs wrote:

The reasoning behind intention-based combat in ohol is that skill-based combat gives skilled players power over unskilled players. Intention-based combat is fair: everyone get one vote. That's the idea of a posse. This idea failed in practice, so now we have the exile system. Which still gives skilled players power over less skilled players, it's just about gene score rather than mechanical skill.

its always. that the skilled will have more influence then the unskilled, since whatever mechanic you use, the skilled ones will know better how to use it.

only thing you can do is make the system simple, so that the unskilled can become faster skilled....

Arcurus · 2020-06-26 21:13:14

JonySky wrote:

Jason, the problem with murders is easier than you think.
The solution begins with a question that only you should ask yourself: are murders allowed in OHOL? Yes or no?
if the answer is YES, be fair and balanced with the 2 parts (the defender and the attacker)
Don't install a system that allows a single player to exterminate an entire family, nor allow a system that only 1 person can kill another ... that's unfair to everyone
OHOL currently has an unfair system, no matter who uses it, the system is unfair to both sides (attacker and defender)
If the system is unbalanced there will be the killings of entire families, and there will also be untouchable griefers
As has been said many times in this forum, build a skill based system, skills that can be learned by everyone
If you do not want to go back to the era of the swords of war, you can create: shields, armor, more possibilities to heal wounded, do not kill with the first and only blow, generate the second blow (even in PVP games you do not kill with Only 1 bullet or hit, multiple hits or shots are required)
Another simple solution is that of the OHOL commands and the continuous writing of various commands.
Here I say: Can't integrate a system like the one that had ARMA II to execute orders? the secondary button is not used at all in OHOL ... because we cannot press the secondary button and have the options without writing them

There are many solutions that other games have adapted and have worked very well, and these solutions are intuitive and easy to use even if you don't write English regularly.
I also recommend you avoid posting informational texts continuously in OHOL, these continuous messages cause a disinformation effect or rather, of information poisoning
Imagine driving on a highway full of traffic signs, imagine that every kilometer of that highway you will find a sign reporting something different continuously ... after a while you will stop paying attention ... this is what happens in OHOL

agree with the combat, better an easy to understand single combat system with some hitpoints. Armor etc would for sure great to have too.

posse can be reworked, to give some boni, like making the target slower, hindering to use horses, give more hitpoints to participants in the posse.

But allow to fight back against the posse.

@JonySky you mean if some one shift right click on one he can choose the action what he wants to do? Like exile, follow, join posse, attack?

JonySky · 2020-06-26 21:14:56

Legs wrote:

The reasoning behind intention-based combat in ohol is that skill-based combat gives skilled players power over unskilled players. Intention-based combat is fair: everyone get one vote. That's the idea of a posse. This idea failed in practice, so now we have the exile system. Which still gives skilled players power over less skilled players, it's just about gene score rather than mechanical skill.

well ... this is part of the essence of videogames ... if you play long hours, you have more experience and you dominate the game better
this is a basic rule of any game.

JonySky · 2020-06-26 21:25:09

Arcurus wrote:

JonySky wrote:
Jason, the problem with murders is easier than you think.
The solution begins with a question that only you should ask yourself: are murders allowed in OHOL? Yes or no?
if the answer is YES, be fair and balanced with the 2 parts (the defender and the attacker)
Don't install a system that allows a single player to exterminate an entire family, nor allow a system that only 1 person can kill another ... that's unfair to everyone
OHOL currently has an unfair system, no matter who uses it, the system is unfair to both sides (attacker and defender)
If the system is unbalanced there will be the killings of entire families, and there will also be untouchable griefers
As has been said many times in this forum, build a skill based system, skills that can be learned by everyone
If you do not want to go back to the era of the swords of war, you can create: shields, armor, more possibilities to heal wounded, do not kill with the first and only blow, generate the second blow (even in PVP games you do not kill with Only 1 bullet or hit, multiple hits or shots are required)
Another simple solution is that of the OHOL commands and the continuous writing of various commands.
Here I say: Can't integrate a system like the one that had ARMA II to execute orders? the secondary button is not used at all in OHOL ... because we cannot press the secondary button and have the options without writing them

There are many solutions that other games have adapted and have worked very well, and these solutions are intuitive and easy to use even if you don't write English regularly.
I also recommend you avoid posting informational texts continuously in OHOL, these continuous messages cause a disinformation effect or rather, of information poisoning
Imagine driving on a highway full of traffic signs, imagine that every kilometer of that highway you will find a sign reporting something different continuously ... after a while you will stop paying attention ... this is what happens in OHOL
@JonySky you mean if some one shift right click on one he can choose the action what he wants to do? Like exile, follow, join posse, attack?

exact

go figure:
Right click on a player and several commands appear:
- to curse
- to whisper
- kiss
- shout

It is an example, but it is easy to understand

but as I have explained before the gang, self-targeting and exile would definitely eliminate it

Last edited by JonySky (2020-06-26 21:27:16)

Arcurus · 2020-06-26 22:01:07

The exile / posse bug is fixed now. So you can also exile after starting posse:
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/638

JonySky wrote:

exact
go figure:
Right click on a player and several commands appear:
- to curse
- to whisper
- kiss
- shout
It is an example, but it is easy to understand
but as I have explained before the gang, self-targeting and exile would definitely eliminate it

Self-targeting and exile? Link?

what i see problematic with coming up multiple options if you just want to attack some one is, its super confusing. Maybe shift right just for attack and shift left for all other?

Gogo · 2020-06-26 22:04:55

@DestinyCall

Are you sure you were leader of whole town? Or there was someone higher in hierarchy? Use /leader to check if there's someone above you. /followers to see how many of them you have.

The flaw with posse is this.. I'm spotting a griefer and absence of leader. I'm telling people about it. They says 'oh'. Meanwhile, someone is already forming a posse. People are now focused on growling people and joining, rather than choosing new leader. They will lose time on it, a long time before they could reach posse of 8.

My solution is - growling shouldn't be able if someone isn't exiled. 1 person can growl, but when you forming posse, people should have something like HMPH on their faces - a sign that you can't kill an ally, posse can't be formed until someone is exiled. As for rival hierarchies - same as above, HMPH before they can reach enough posse to kill.

JonySky wrote:

I also recommend you avoid posting informational texts continuously in OHOL, these continuous messages cause a disinformation effect or rather, of information poisoning

Yes, they are. Also receiving important things (leadership, ownership) should be more alarming than receiving orders.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-06-26 23:19:59)

DestinyCall · 2020-06-26 22:21:40

Gogo wrote:

@DestinyCall
Are you sure you were leader of whole town? Or there was someone higher in hierarchy? Use /leader to check if there's someone above you. /followers to see how many of them you have.

I have no idea. I don't know/use any leadership commands. But when I targeted the griefer, my character did announce that I could exile the targeted player myself, rather than pointing me toward a different leader. I think it is safe to assume I was the leader of the town and should have been able to exile her.

Honestly, I think the most likely reason it failed was user error. When I am under stress, my typing skills go from "not that great" to "really atrocious". I probably mis-spelled exile or something stupid.

On the plus side, this horribly frustrating experience forced me to learn a few commands so I will hopefully be a slightly better leader next time I find myself wearing the crown.

Speaking of which ... leader-only crowns would be awesome.

Arcurus · 2020-06-26 22:24:04

DestinyCall wrote:

Speaking of which ... leader-only crowns would be awesome.

lol yea! As work around you could kill all that have a crown and are not leader

merryllamax · 2020-06-26 22:24:10

DestinyCall wrote:

antking:]# wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:
Also, I know this doesn't help non-English people....
But when you try to kill someone, instructions pop up on the screen explaining how many allies and enemies the person has, and how big the posse needs to be. And your character speaks information about who can exile that person, and you get an arrow pointing to that leader.
So it's not like these mechanics are totally hidden or need to be memorized.

I just noticed that once someone is sufficiently exiled to be solo killed, there's no explanation given to the killer letting them know that solo killing this target is possible. I'll fix that with a DING message explaining the situation.
I don't know much about code but would it be possible to create a program that would translate things in game? such as being able to choose a language and then in game seeing that language
I don't know much about code either, but I do know enough about languages to say with confidence "no, that is not in the scope of this game."
Automatic translation is very complex. Play around with Google Translate sometime, if you want to have a big laugh. It tries so hard and fails so spectacularly. If Jason could work out a way to seamless translate player-inputted text between languages in real-time, he could retire a wealthy man.

I agree though I see on the Forum that there have been attempts by group of volunteer translators to translate this game, I don't know if any language got finished thoough. It's a LOT of quite demanding work though and obviously, it wouldn't help with the players speaking to each other in English.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-06-26 13:34:45

Posse Fail

#2 2020-06-26 13:41:15

Re: Posse Fail

#3 2020-06-26 13:44:32

Re: Posse Fail

#4 2020-06-26 15:00:48

Re: Posse Fail

#5 2020-06-26 15:30:26

Re: Posse Fail

#6 2020-06-26 15:36:21

Re: Posse Fail

#7 2020-06-26 17:29:48

Re: Posse Fail

#8 2020-06-26 17:30:55

Re: Posse Fail

#9 2020-06-26 17:46:01

Re: Posse Fail

#10 2020-06-26 17:52:47

Re: Posse Fail

#11 2020-06-26 18:12:42

Re: Posse Fail

#12 2020-06-26 18:51:47

Re: Posse Fail

#13 2020-06-26 19:09:23

Re: Posse Fail

#14 2020-06-26 19:18:30

Re: Posse Fail

#15 2020-06-26 20:37:13

Re: Posse Fail

#16 2020-06-26 20:59:12

Re: Posse Fail

#17 2020-06-26 21:06:21

Re: Posse Fail

#18 2020-06-26 21:13:14

Re: Posse Fail

#19 2020-06-26 21:14:56

Re: Posse Fail

#20 2020-06-26 21:25:09

Re: Posse Fail

#21 2020-06-26 22:01:07

Re: Posse Fail

#22 2020-06-26 22:04:55

Re: Posse Fail

#23 2020-06-26 22:21:40

Re: Posse Fail

#24 2020-06-26 22:24:04

Re: Posse Fail

#25 2020-06-26 22:24:10

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