Why so distant? - about game difficulty

Gogo · 2020-06-22 00:19:56

Yesterday gingers were living 2,5k from browns, it's too far away. I brought them kero and bring latex back, it was so dull life, I'll never do that again. I want this game to test my skills, not require from me riding through wilderness for 20 minutes which is no-skill gameplay. A game where you don't need skills is bad game, it would be better if families would live closer, but people would be more hostile towards each other.

fug · 2020-06-22 00:25:49

You can't live near each other due to homeland mechanics and even if you could by trying to settle close you can't get iron unless your neighbor gives it up. Which then of course is made worse by not being able to understand others because the language system wasn't designed with this sort of thing in mind which leaves us with a bunch of mechanics clashing with each other. Also, settling close causes you to be starting on potentially ravished lands.

Basically unless it's server reset people can't be close and even if they are it's possible for Eves to kill each other by making a well...

DestinyCall · 2020-06-22 01:23:46

Obviously, we need our own inhabited islands with rapid boat travel to reach nearby settlements. Each island would be the size of the current homeland and function the same. Race restriction would be lifted and instead different islands would each have a single special biome. You would need to build a boat and travel to adjacent islands to gather more resources.

Each island would start off with a limited supply of iron and other critical resources. Additional iron mines and all oil deposits would be found on a large central island, accessible by other island tribes. The central island would not have any specialty biomes. Those would only be found on tribal islands. When a tribe dies out, a new island rises and is populated by a new Eve. It is inaccessible by other tribes until they build their first boat. The dead tribe's island remains accessible for the same amount of time. Once the new tribe is sea-worthy, the old island cannot be reached by boat any longer.

This world type would encourage more competition and trade while limiting travel distances.

Gogo · 2020-06-22 02:08:22

I don't wanna spend my life in boat sailing for 2,5k.

Beside game won't allow for boats, but we can start on island-like rift and build bridges through water biome to get access to new lands. We don't need them for homelands, just for resources, so we would spawn inside the first island and distance problem will vanish. The donkeys can start on another islands, not 20k far, THEY could be the danger and the ones that can conquer the fertile families. Whadda you say about that?

Last edited by Gogo (2020-06-22 02:12:01)

DestinyCall · 2020-06-22 02:22:41

If the game can have planes, cars, and horses, it can have boats. There's no game engine limitation that prevents oceans from existing, as proven by water biomes in 2H1L.

Boats could even work like planes and provide instant travel between docks on adjacent islands. The island you reach would be determined by the direction of the dock, like how planes send you to the nearest landing strip in the direction of your plane's flight.

Not a big fan of trying to repurpose Donkeys as a viable threat. Feral Eves were never that fun for me.

Gogo · 2020-06-22 03:00:09

I wish Jason would answer to this. Infinite world is an issue.

DestinyCall · 2020-06-22 03:26:00

Infinite world would be fine if other game mechanics were changed to synergize with the vastness of the world space instead of fighting against it. Infinite world does not work properly with racial specialization and the current iron/oil mechanics.

Grid-based resources belong in a box.

JackTreehorn · 2020-06-22 03:34:51

I agree towns get too far apart, and delivering kerosene and latex becomes a wasted life its just not sustainable. I would say the eve spawn should be closer but the only problem is that berry bushes don't respawn. It's not so much that finding a good well spot is an issue its just that the wild life nearby would have been tapped already.

Sending workers to get oil at their base works until the bases become more the 1.5k away. After that your spending 20 mins running there and 30 mins trying to get something done. While this is happening your home town is losing people because they need to work elsewhere to get brownpeople oil or gingers or black people latex.

Not to mention white people who have nothing to offer and can't be found.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2020-06-22 03:38:47)

JackTreehorn · 2020-06-22 04:04:27

What if the white family was the seafaring family and an ocean ran along the north border of the eve grid (not islands or rivers). The ocean could consist of deepwater then shallows then sandy beach. shallows the white family could walk through, deep water is impassable, and sandy beach could have their waystones. White family could craft and be the only family who can use boats which can only travel in the shallows but could be as fast or faster than a horse. Boats could get damaged over time and need their sails repaired.

White people could set up harbors north of where the families are settled and distribute latex, kerosene, sulfur ect. You know how Jason wants those snails for purple dye, have a guess where they live...

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2020-06-22 04:36:40)

SirCaio · 2020-06-22 04:21:29

This could also be blamed at the lack of depht in the transportation branch of the tech tree. People have discussed about a road building vehicle in the past, more road technology, rebalancing between the horse cart and crude car and so on. My personal favorite would be the addition of railways but sadly the engine doesn't seen to suport that, although I can't help but think there must be a workaround to that... we don't need a whole train, maybe just the locomotive with space to carry a fair amount of cargo, it could be built on a track segment and be "picked up" by a player wich then would click on another track segment to travel instantly to the track end or a train stop.

PS: I have no ideia if this would be a viable workaround, these are just thoughts.

JackTreehorn · 2020-06-22 04:26:15

SirCaio wrote:

This could also be blamed at the lack of depht in the transportation branch of the tech tree. People have discussed about a road building vehicle in the past, more road technology, rebalancing between the horse cart and crude car and so on. My personal favorite would be the addition of railways but sadly the engine doesn't seen to suport that, although I can't help but think there must be a workaround to that... we don't need a whole train, maybe just the locomotive with space to carry a fair amount of cargo, it could be built on a track segment and be "picked up" by a player wich then would click on another track segment to travel instantly to the track end or a train stop.
PS: I have no ideia if this would be a viable workaround, these are just thoughts.

Maybe it could work. The train would be the equivalent to a car but runs on charcoal. The problem is the railway itself, The number of rail-tracks per set made would have to be increased and we would need a new method of placing them because we can't place 2000+ by hand.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2020-06-22 04:37:13)

DestinyCall · 2020-06-22 04:48:40

JackTreehorn wrote:

What if the white family was the seafaring family and an ocean ran along the north border of the eve grid (not islands or rivers). The ocean could consist of deepwater then shallows then sandy beach. shallows the white family could walk through, deep water is impassable, and sandy beach could have their waystones. White family could craft and be the only family who can use boats which can only travel in the shallows but could be as fast or faster than a horse. Boats could get damaged over time and need their sails repaired.
White people could set up harbors north of where the families are settled and distribute latex, kerosene, sulfur ect. You know how Jason wants those snails for purple dye, have a guess where they live...

I like this idea a lot.

Dodge · 2020-06-22 06:18:44

Because that's what eventually happens when you have an infinite map and because Jason believes an infinity of the same thing is mysterious/romantic/something like that.

2.5k wouldn't even that bad if you could actually build a road or any kind of transportation between the two towns but with villages dying out and new ones getting made further and further in a couple of hours/days, making 2.5k roads over and over again would be complete madness.

DestinyCall · 2020-06-22 06:24:38

We should have an infinitely renewable map, instead of an infinitely large map. Heavy exploitation would deplete all the local wild resources, but if humans are gone for long enough, stuff starts to bounce back.

We would not need to death march constantly to escape the inexorable path of devastation that we leave in our wake. We could remain in the same general area by managing the available resources wisely. Wild spots could eventually returned to an untouched state over time, while areas close to civilization would take longer to recover.

It would be possible to live in the same location for a long time, as long as you took care to not wipe out all your nature reserves.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-06-22 06:28:07)

Coconut Fruit · 2020-06-22 10:47:25

Yeah, last time I played as a black, we had 2k to browns too.
I wonder if it's new spawn mechanic's fault, in old spawn mechanic we didn't have families that far apart, but the issue was that Eve's spawned in old, occupied areas with no wild food.

Too bad cars are dead content, they are twice as fast as horses and I wouldn't mind traveling 2k tiles with a car if it didn't require kerosene. But even if cars didn't require kerosene to work, I'm worried some people would always steal them anyways... Well, we could fence them tho, to prevent that.

Mr.XIX · 2020-06-22 11:13:55

Gogo wrote:

Yesterday gingers were living 2,5k from browns, it's too far away. I brought them kero and bring latex back, it was so dull life, I'll never do that again. I want this game to test my skills, not require from me riding through wilderness for 20 minutes which is no-skill gameplay. A game where you don't need skills is bad game, it would be better if families would live closer, but people would be more hostile towards each other.

When people stop traveling 2k+ to bring kerosene or rubber, the towns die out quicker and will rejoin the other families at the eve-spawns.
People need to realize they need each other and that having close neighbors is key to survival.
They won't learn when people (most of the time veterans with a zoom mod) keep on supporting their lifestyle by traveling huge distances.

DestinyCall · 2020-06-22 13:59:13

Mr.XIX wrote:

When people stop traveling 2k+ to bring kerosene or rubber, the towns die out quicker and will rejoin the other families at the eve-spawns.
People need to realize they need each other and that having close neighbors is key to survival.
They won't learn when people (most of the time veterans with a zoom mod) keep on supporting their lifestyle by traveling huge distances.

So the key to survival is letting your town die when it gets too old?

Umm ... I see a problem with that logic.

JonySky · 2020-06-22 14:11:05

Mr.XIX wrote:

Gogo wrote:
Yesterday gingers were living 2,5k from browns, it's too far away. I brought them kero and bring latex back, it was so dull life, I'll never do that again. I want this game to test my skills, not require from me riding through wilderness for 20 minutes which is no-skill gameplay. A game where you don't need skills is bad game, it would be better if families would live closer, but people would be more hostile towards each other.
When people stop traveling 2k+ to bring kerosene or rubber, the towns die out quicker and will rejoin the other families at the eve-spawns.
People need to realize they need each other and that having close neighbors is key to survival.
They won't learn when people (most of the time veterans with a zoom mod) keep on supporting their lifestyle by traveling huge distances.

but ... OHOL is a sandbox? or is it not?
I'm confused !, I don't know if I can do whatever I want ... or I must be tied to a city for 60 minutes making food so that the 10 players in my city don't starve
it's sad to see the game in the current state

Last edited by JonySky (2020-06-22 14:12:02)

JackTreehorn · 2020-06-22 14:30:05

Dorothy town got quite advanced but only lasted 3 days. eve camps were 2.5k by the end of day two. I would like to see advanced towns last at least a week. Perhaps it's our fault letting too many eve camps die out but for the most part it's out of our control. Good players can't be there for every eve camp and some doom themselves by poor starting location.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2020-06-22 14:32:23)

Mr.XIX · 2020-06-22 14:34:11

@DestinyCall I don't know where you got that statement from. I say that the key to survival is for towns to be near each other.

@JonySky You can do whatever you want to do. I agree that the game in the current state is pretty hard and requires people to constantly work on survival.
When you want to do something that does not contribute to your city, you will be looked upon when you eat food you didn't make.
Is it fair for the creator of the food when you take his produce and give nothing in return?

Gogo · 2020-06-22 14:44:36

Dodge wrote:

Because that's what eventually happens when you have an infinite map and because Jason believes an infinity of the same thing is mysterious/romantic/something like that.

Map can still be infinite, but with one natural border like ocean that @JackTreehorn mentioned. That is nice idea, but I think Jason want all races to go out and meet others, not white ones to be the traders for everyone.

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Too bad cars are dead content, they are twice as fast as horses and I wouldn't mind traveling 2k tiles with a car if it didn't require kerosene. But even if cars didn't require kerosene to work, I'm worried some people would always steal them anyways... Well, we could fence them tho, to prevent that.

That's why I travelled so far, to get raw tire for engine and make a car. I would wrote about this more in topic about leaders.

Mr.XIX wrote:

When people stop traveling 2k+ to bring kerosene or rubber, the towns die out quicker and will rejoin the other families at the eve-spawns.
People need to realize they need each other and that having close neighbors is key to survival.
They won't learn when people (most of the time veterans with a zoom mod) keep on supporting their lifestyle by traveling huge distances.

Game should support travelling to better places. Recently I needed to shoot last females in family, because there was no veins near. Lol.

JonySky wrote:

but ... OHOL is a sandbox? or is it not?

If sandbox can't be good, I prefer smaller but better.

DestinyCall · 2020-06-22 14:51:18

Mr.XIX wrote:

@DestinyCall I don't know where you got that statement from. I say that the key to survival is for towns to be near each other.

You said that having close neighbors is the key to survival, but you also said this:

Mr.XIX wrote:

When people stop traveling 2k+ to bring kerosene or rubber, the towns die out quicker and will rejoin the other families at the eve-spawns.

Which implies that if your town is too far from other towns, you should just let it die.

People are complaining about the absurd distances in the game right now because we need close neighbors, but as soon as one of the three tribes dies out for whatever reason, the new Eves are spawning thousands of tiles away. More successful, longer-lived families who ARE doing a good job of survival are being killed off by the demise of their less successful neighbors. This is creating a bizarre situation where the "best" option for older towns is to just give up and die.

I am not a fan of this game-play model. The rapid cycling makes everything feel very pointless and futile. The reward for surviving a long time is being all alone and dragging everyone else down because they can't trade with you.

JonySky · 2020-06-22 14:53:47

Gogo wrote:

JonySky wrote:
but ... OHOL is a sandbox? or is it not?
If sandbox can't be good, I prefer smaller but better.

explain to me why a sandbox is not good?

Arcurus · 2020-06-22 15:00:39

was thinking about how it would be if we could create offspring villages with different races:

like if you get a baby there is a 20% chance that the baby gets the race of the closest biome

then one eve could in theory create all the races for all the biomes....

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-06-22 15:01:22)

Coconut Fruit · 2020-06-22 15:50:25

DestinyCall wrote:

More successful, longer-lived families who ARE doing a good job of survival are being killed off by the demise of their less successful neighbors.

Families who are doing a good job also help their less successful neighbors, that's the key to survive really long time. Helping other families is a good thing, isn't it? It gives us more things to do, it makes this game harder, and I like it.
Tho, it's hard with this big amount of newbies, and also we can't do much against Bobo if he manages to become a leader...

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Why so distant? - about game difficulty

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