a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Yes every game should have an infinity of everything, infinite health, ammo etc
There should be no food bar you should have infinite food, food should just exist for roleplay purposes...
What kind of snowflake logic is this smh my head.
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OMG, did you not see the sign in the entré? "Do not feed the Spoonwood"
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Yes every game should have an infinity of everything, infinite health, ammo etc
There should be no food bar you should have infinite food, food should just exist for roleplay purposes...
What kind of snowflake logic is this smh my head.
Usually, if you have infinity, then you can have finiteness also. At least in mathematics. Having the option of either infinite health or finite health for the player is more interesting than just having finite health. It enables more possibilities for more people than finite resources.
Playing roles is interesting Dodge. Doing things for purposes of necessity is boring, because doing something for the reason of necessity turns that something into a grind, and grinds are not interesting.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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Yes every game should have an infinity of everything, infinite health, ammo etc
There should be no food bar you should have infinite food, food should just exist for roleplay purposes...
What kind of snowflake logic is this smh my head.
The problem with having a closed mind is how limited the range for improvement over any topic is. I agree with your sarcasm, resources should be limited.
However: Did the food nerf and no wild food make the game better? Can you honestly say the towns and early game have been more interesting to you the last two or three weeks? The "make the game harder, nerf everything (like mutton pie)" doctrine that you and others have pushed has made the game a lot less atractive to the new players and regulars. Nowdays it is just a farming/make food simulator.
Seriously: you can keep pushing the nerf. I am afraid several players (included) me can still survive even if you remove yum completely. Even if you cut each food to half the current value. I can still produce enough food alone to feed me and two more people doing nothing and I am just a slowass whale compared to the pro veterans.
Is it fun?
- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.
- Jack Ass
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The problem with having a closed mind is how limited the range for improvement over any topic is. I agree with your sarcasm, resources should be limited.
If finite resources were something that interested players in general, they would have done so already. For example, when water was infintie via pumps, if finite water interested the playerbase, they would have either used /die to suicide out of any camp that had a pump, or NEVER made a pump. I don't recall any reports of players ever doing such, let alone a sizeable group of players doing such. Thus, infinite water was more interesting in general, since it appealed to more people with no indication that any adult level players preferred finite water.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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Dodge wrote:Yes every game should have an infinity of everything, infinite health, ammo etc
There should be no food bar you should have infinite food, food should just exist for roleplay purposes...
What kind of snowflake logic is this smh my head.
The problem with having a closed mind is how limited the range for improvement over any topic is. I agree with your sarcasm, resources should be limited.
However: Did the food nerf and no wild food make the game better? Can you honestly say the towns and early game have been more interesting to you the last two or three weeks? The "make the game harder, nerf everything (like mutton pie)" doctrine that you and others have pushed has made the game a lot less atractive to the new players and regulars. Nowdays it is just a farming/make food simulator.
Seriously: you can keep pushing the nerf. I am afraid several players (included) me can still survive even if you remove yum completely. Even if you cut each food to half the current value. I can still produce enough food alone to feed me and two more people doing nothing and I am just a slowass whale compared to the pro veterans.
Is it fun?
No idea i dont play the game anymore, not interesting atm, lots of weird mechanics etc... Spoonwood's logic still as dumb as ever.
It's like he doesn't understands the basics of what makes a game a game, i bet he plays monopoly with 1 million starting cash and no dice roll, you just visit the tile you want...because why would i visit a place i dont want to visit right makes sense XD
if i visit a place with a house or hotel i just dont pay... because i choose to visit the place but sleep somewhere else, "they cant force me to sleep in that hotel", anyway some things never change, i hope that game will though and for the better.
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testo wrote:The problem with having a closed mind is how limited the range for improvement over any topic is. I agree with your sarcasm, resources should be limited.
If finite resources were something that interested players in general, they would have done so already. For example, when water was infintie via pumps, if finite water interested the playerbase, they would have either used /die to suicide out of any camp that had a pump, or NEVER made a pump. I don't recall any reports of players ever doing such, let alone a sizeable group of players doing such. Thus, infinite water was more interesting in general, since it appealed to more people with no indication that any adult level players preferred finite water.
So are you saying that because people didn´t choose to selfrestric themselves in the game it is more interesting to have infinite resources? I think that is way too narrow of a view for the whole playerbase spectrum.
If infinite resources and non restricted play was something that interested the playerbase in general, there would be several small population communities in the low pop servers, but at most you can count 2/3 people going to each one from time to time.
- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.
- Jack Ass
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Why would you do this?
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No idea i dont play the game anymore, not interesting atm, lots of weird mechanics etc...
Thats interesting. Would you agree that the latest big changes like food nerf, biomass lock and iron nerf were good changes?
- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.
- Jack Ass
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So are you saying that because people didn´t choose to selfrestric themselves in the game it is more interesting to have infinite resources? I think that is way too narrow of a view for the whole playerbase spectrum.
Yes, I assume in general that players are competent and able to follow their own interest. Hence people saying that they wanted more challenge a few months didn't make a lick of sense. They weren't settling in a desert or tundra and going buck naked were they?
If infinite resources and non restricted play was something that interested the playerbase in general, there would be several small population communities in the low pop servers, but at most you can count 2/3 people going to each one from time to time.
Players would have to know about those in general and not feel lonely there also. They also wouldn't need to care much about having children or a lineage.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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No idea i dont play the game anymore, not interesting atm, lots of weird mechanics etc... Spoonwood's logic still as dumb as ever.
More challenge or complication doesn't interest you then.
It's like he doesn't understands the basics of what makes a game a game, i bet he plays monopoly with 1 million starting cash and no dice roll, you just visit the tile you want...because why would i visit a place i dont want to visit right makes sense XD
Oh, go ahead and tell me what makes a game a game Dodge, because honestly, I don't think you have a defining property of all games.
Monopoly *would* be more interesting if you could move less tiles than the number of dice that you rolled.
if i visit a place with a house or hotel i just dont pay... because i choose to visit the place but sleep somewhere else, "they cant force me to sleep in that hotel", anyway some things never change, i hope that game will though and for the better.
You described one possible scenario Dodge. You didn't consider players making their own rules for Monopoly. If players could make up their own rules and either play with infinite money or finite money according to their collective choice, that would be more interesting than regular Monopoly.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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testo wrote:So are you saying that because people didn´t choose to selfrestric themselves in the game it is more interesting to have infinite resources? I think that is way too narrow of a view for the whole playerbase spectrum.
Yes, I assume in general that players are competent and able to follow their own interest. Hence people saying that they wanted more challenge a few months didn't make a lick of sense. They weren't settling in a desert or tundra and going buck naked were they?
testo wrote:If infinite resources and non restricted play was something that interested the playerbase in general, there would be several small population communities in the low pop servers, but at most you can count 2/3 people going to each one from time to time.
Players would have to know about those in general and not feel lonely there also. They also wouldn't need to care much about having children or a lineage.
The question still stands, if players are competent and follow their own interest (in this case infinite resources to play) why haven´t they moved to a server that allows that? Why isn´t 2hol bigger and why is every new server with less constraints shortlived?
- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.
- Jack Ass
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Dodge wrote:No idea i dont play the game anymore, not interesting atm, lots of weird mechanics etc...
Thats interesting. Would you agree that the latest big changes like food nerf, biomass lock and iron nerf were good changes?
Not sure about food nerf havent played it but the way he limited iron with some voodoo unintuitive mechanic instead of having an actual limit of iron in a finite world like in the real world is just bad imo same for the specialization that could have been interesting but right now feels forced, akward and overall not interesting.
You described one possible scenario Dodge. You didn't consider players making their own rules for Monopoly. If players could make up their own rules and either play with infinite money or finite money according to their collective choice, that would be more interesting than regular Monopoly.
Then make this version of the game yourself, sell it and watch it fail miserably due to how bad it is.
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The question still stands, if players are competent and follow their own interest (in this case infinite resources to play) why haven´t they moved to a server that allows that? Why isn´t 2hol bigger and why is every new server with less constraints shortlived?
2HOL has bugs with disappearing tarry spots, and iron that you can try to pick up and it disappears, and milkweed that you can't pick, and invisible trees (that end up appearing later on sometimes). It also has doesn't have any overflow for food.
The 2HOL site also references OHOL and isn't as well advertised.
It's also more complicated to get 2HOL running than it is to get OHOL running.
Players like Dodge and Coconut Fruit are competent. If they were interested in more challenge or difficulty to survival before, they would have taken on measures to increase the challenge for their own self. Going naked is something that they could have done. Dodge, I know from Pein, helped to set up San-Cal, which, to remind you, was largely in a mid-temperature jungle (when they still existed). He thus wasn't playing for the sake of survival only, and ultimately not interested in having a high amount of challenge in the game... at least not at that point in time.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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Then make this version of the game yourself, sell it and watch it fail miserably due to how bad it is.
Your encouragement, were you trying to be honest and helpful, would suggest that you believed I was correct.
Your sarcasm above and elsewhere, like sarcasm in general, suggests that you either lack the ability to speak honestly or don't want to speak honestly for some reason.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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@Spoonwood I disagree with your core tenets about game design, but I commend your resolve to continue to fight your fight.
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Dodge wrote:Then make this version of the game yourself, sell it and watch it fail miserably due to how bad it is.
Your encouragement, were you trying to be honest and helpful, would suggest that you believed I was correct.
Your sarcasm above and elsewhere, like sarcasm in general, suggests that you either lack the ability to speak honestly or don't want to speak honestly for some reason.
How is that sarcasm?
I'm telling you straight up that it's a bad idea and that it would fail miserably.
The whole monopoly game is centered around money it's even the condition to win the game and you suggest infinite money would be a good idea...
Seems you have issues with always wanting contradiction or wanting to win arguments at all costs which leads to some of the most ridiculous arguments i have ever seen.
Anyway arguing with your logic is a nightmare good luck with that.
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You speak a lot but you don't even play.
Really. To me this game is more interesting than ever before, I haven't had one boring life lately, which happened very often in old days. Even race restrictions aren't that bad after all, helping other families is fun.
I really don't know why players are quitting. Maybe it's a little bit too harash for newbies, but for pro players this game is really fun. Well, it's possibly that newbies quit so fast because playing with vanilla client sucks...
Also, finite wild berries is a great change and I really love it.
Making own private server (Very easy! You can play on it even if you haven't bought the game)
Zoom mod
Mini guide for beginners
website with all recipies
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Spoonwood wrote:Dodge wrote:Then make this version of the game yourself, sell it and watch it fail miserably due to how bad it is.
Your encouragement, were you trying to be honest and helpful, would suggest that you believed I was correct.
Your sarcasm above and elsewhere, like sarcasm in general, suggests that you either lack the ability to speak honestly or don't want to speak honestly for some reason.
How is that sarcasm?
You were sarcastic in your first response today, as Testo has pointed out.
I'm telling you straight up that it's a bad idea and that it would fail miserably.
You weren't doing that before.
The whole monopoly game is centered around money it's even the condition to win the game and you suggest infinite money would be a good idea...
No, having money is not the win condition of Monopoly. The win condition of Monopoly is only one person not being bankrupt. Or in other words, you win if you bankrupt all of your opponents.
Seems you have issues with always wanting contradiction or wanting to win arguments at all costs which leads to some of the most ridiculous arguments i have ever seen.
Again, having infinite resources is more interesting ceterius paribus, because with infinite resources BOTH players who enjoy finite resources through self-limitation can play and those who enjoy infinite resources can play. Finite resources rules out a group of people as having interest, and rules out even the same person who varies between wanting infinite and finite resources, since some of the time that person can't get satisfied. There is no contradiction here. And I haven't a clue as to how I've "won" anything here.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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You speak a lot but you don't even play.
Really. To me this game is more interesting than ever before, I haven't had one boring life lately, which happened very often in old days. Even race restrictions aren't that bad after all, helping other families is fun.I really don't know why players are quitting.
Why would you assume that other people will be like you?
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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You are so fucking dense it's unbelievable
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I like the food nerfs. Forces diverse food production which I think is good. Also, yum is kinda intuitive. I like the idea of tool slots, but find them incredibly annoying when I'm doing Newcomen tech. They're a ham-fisted attempt at simulating a real world restriction that should be done in a natural, intuitive way. I like the idea of race restrictions, but they're unintuitive and don't model real life so I find them a bit annoying. The posse mechanic in relation to killing is terrible. Water/oil/iron scarcity is a good idea but the implementation is a patchwork of unintuitive, undocumented, arcane ceremony that relies on experts to implement to enable new players to play the baseline game.
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They're a ham-fisted attempt at simulating a real world restriction that should be done in a natural, intuitive way.
There is no restriction on how many tools one can learn to use in real life. No, tool restrictions aren't realistic at all. They are completely magic, and of the dark kind.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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You are so fucking dense it's unbelievable
I have evidence that people calling for finite resources won't make things have broader based appeal, because some people do like infinite resources. Some players liked infinite water in OHOL and players in Oxygen Not Included like their infinite geysers and vents.
On the other hand, you act like finite resources will be the best for everyone, but it's not like there's been a mass survey of players, and there already exists knowledge that some people don't like finite resources and know that as true for themselves, at least at particular times.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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You are so fucking dense it's unbelievable
Finite resources also makes it easier for players to annoy or harass others, since then the players have no options overall. And being annoyed or harassed isn't interesting, since both involve negative association, while interest involves positive association.
Finite resources makes it more likely that children aren't fed, and that doesn't interest plenty of people, especially those usually on the receiving end of such.
Finite resources makes for less opportunity than infinite resources, and people don't like less opportunity. For example, staying at home for it's own sake, isn't something that interests people.
Finite resources makes for fewer potential stories, because not as much can happen with less available.
Finite resources also decreases valuing something, because there's a relationship between how much something is valued and how long it lasts. People value marriage, not because it's finite, but because it's promised as an eternal state of being.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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