Update: In Perpetuity

jasonrohrer · 2020-05-08 02:27:41

Several systems that required repeated manual intervention for trans-generational propagation have now been made automatic by default. In the past, these systems were rarely used, in part because of maintaining them long-term was almost impossible (one weak link in the chain, in some future generation, caused the whole thing to fall apart).

First, property.

If you die as the last owner of a property gate, instead of the gate collapsing, ownership now passes to your oldest family heir. This is your oldest child, grandchild, or great grandchild, if you have any, or your oldest, closest relative otherwise. To prevent gates from hanging around forever, even if they're no longer wanted, owners now have the power to remove them at will. When you inherit property, you get a DING message explaining the situation, and an arrow pointing back to it.

Second, leadership.

If a leader dies with no chosen heir (they can chose one by following someone before death), their oldest follower takes over for them as leader. All their other followers automatically switch to following this new leader, and get arrows pointing toward them. The new leader gets a DING message informing them of the situation.

Combined with the fact that babies follow their mother's leader by default, and babies of leaderless mothers follow their own mother by default, leadership will be the default condition throughout the game. People can still opt out by following someone else or intentionally following no one, so truly bad leaders that inherit their power can be easily removed from office. Furthermore, since most people in a family will follow the same leader by default, there's now a reliable way to mark bad actors through exile (when the top leader exiles someone, everyone will see it). And that leads us to the next tie-in.

Third, killing.

In the arms race against murder sprees committed by coordinated teams of griefers, killing has become harder and harder. The posse system worked to prevent unilateral, unjustified killing. However, it also demanded organization on the part of the players to carry out consensus-based, justified killing. This organization, for a group of strangers working together through in-game chat, is tough. But a griefer team, working through voice chat, can easily meet the required level of organization.

The required posse size has been climbing to combat this, and the griefer teams have been growing in size along with it. Meanwhile, necessary killing in the game (to stop non-killing griefing) has become almost impossible. If 8 people are required to form a posse, you have to get 8 random strangers on the same page, at the same time, about what they are trying to do.

What is the actual goal here? We're trying to prevent the minority from pestering the majority with nuisance killing. We can assume, hopefully, that any team of griefers will be smaller than the group of non-griefer players in a village. How do we give the larger group the power to both avoid getting killed by the smaller group, and also the power to kill easily when necessary? A large enough posse requirement protects the majority from being killed, but it makes it way too hard for them to kill.

And just a quick aside: if you haven't been following this game's growth closely, you might be thinking, "Why is there killing in this game at all? Just remove it!" But then what happens when someone keeps moving your tools right when you go to use them? What happens when someone steals your horse and won't give it back? There are endless ways for one player to irritate other players. Killing is supposed to be the way the group says, "enough is enough."

But how do we know who the majority is, so that we can give them that power?

This week, I'm testing a new idea: your group is defined by the leadership tree that you are part of. If you are part of a big group, you can't be killed easily. If you are not part of a big group, you are fair game for anyone to kill. You inherit (or choose) which group you are part of based on which leader you are following. But leaders have the power to remove you from their group, and relegate you to your own defenses, through exile.

In detail, we count up your allies (those that see you as part of their group) and your enemies (those that see you as exiled). If you have at least as many nearby allies as enemies, you can't be solo killed, and a large posse is required to get you. However, if you have more nearby enemies than allies, anyone is free to solo kill you.

A small team of griefers might be able to form their own leadership tree and thus have a few allies each, and they might be able to exile you, giving you a few enemies. But as long as you are part of a larger group of allies, you will be immune to their attacks. Furthermore, if your group exiles them, they will have a lot of enemies, and be easily dispatched.

Also, if trouble crops up within your own ranks, all the top leader needs to do is exile that bad seed, and then anyone in the village can take care of the problem.

(Feels strange to be talking in euphemisms like a mob boss....)

Combined with the fact that everyone will be part of a leadership tree by default, and we can see that everyone will be protected by default. The ally pool will be manually shifted around as needed, through exiling and changing leadership, to deal with problems as they arise.

Finally, if you try to kill someone who is protected by allies, thus requiring a large posse, you get an arrow back to their top leader, so you know who to petition to exile them.

Yes, there will be times when talking the leader into exiling a legitimate troublemaker doesn't work out, but it will be much simpler to accomplish than trying to get 5 strangers to act in unison to form a posse.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-08 03:09:05

Game doesn't have fatherhood.

It has a host of other longstanding problems, such as lineages not having the ability to survive updates, which the designer would need to recognize as problems for the game to substantially get better.

I won't be surprised if this sort of thing happens over and over again now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MUZ8bXZmEk

Jojigirl · 2020-05-08 05:31:09

Thank you for the update!

I love the property gate addition.

Excited to see the outcome of the new killing requirements as well.

antking:]# · 2020-05-08 07:00:46

I think that is a good update and hope that it works, but if it doesn't it doesn't

Blue tinker · 2020-05-08 07:04:30

Wow. I haven't tested it out yet, but the new change to posse system sounds great! Finally leadership is something that is useful, I like the property gate changes. The allies and enemies mechanic may have a lot of potential, it would make sense to change peace/war status to groups rather than families (though this would probably generate civil wars, so maybe that's not a good idea).

Just one question: what about males? If they are an owner of a property gate, does the ownership pass to their nieces? Or cousins? Or does it simply fall apart?

Also there is now a good-looking compromise between the posse system and solo killing. I like it, at least on paper. Will that work? Time will tell. Anyways, great update, in my opinion.

voy178 · 2020-05-08 08:10:02

Speaking of inheriting titles, what about lower-ranking titles? If the top tier is a Queen, what will happen with the duchess, countess, baroness & ladies on the death of the top-tier leader? Is there no way to preserve a ranking system without having to redo it manually every time?

Also, would it not be beneficial to add an heir title? X is my heir, heir is X, etc.
That way all ranks could select their heirs and preserve their place in the hierarchy. Better yet, if the ruler could assign titles to followers without having to order people to follow them.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-08 09:25:14

Works very nice. Good update!

StrongForce · 2020-05-08 10:54:25

Awesome update can't wait to try it.

LunyTerror · 2020-05-08 11:10:23

Wow Jason! This sounds very promising!

miskas · 2020-05-08 13:18:00

Just played an awesome life with two very active leaders, in a black family town that had a lot of yum foods, even a Feast.
Tons of Iron, a fenced engine ready to be used when newcomen well dry, fenced milkweed area, late-game clothes.
Our leaders guided us on what to do and what we need.
Leadership and inheritance played right can have a very good outcome.

StrongForce · 2020-05-08 13:32:39

I fenced that engine ;D and brought three stacks of iron ore
That was realy a nice life there.

Last edited by StrongForce (2020-05-08 13:33:58)

Arcurus · 2020-05-08 15:24:31

StrongForce wrote:

I fenced that engine ;D and brought three stacks of iron ore
That was realy a nice life there.

dont know if it was this engine, but i inherited one, which then was used for the well...

some people came also and asked about killing, but i was far too old to figure it all out...

jasonrohrer · 2020-05-08 16:27:25

If you're a male, it finds your oldest, closest relative.

It does this tier by tier. First, it finds the oldest person who is the offspring of your mother (your oldest sib, or oldest niece/nephew, or grand niece/nephew). If none found, it finds oldest person who is the offspring of your gma as you (your oldest first cousin, or their offspring). Then it finds the oldest person who has the same ggma (oldest second cousin, or their offspring).

One thing I just realized is that it doesn't consider your ma, gma, etc. if they are still alive (if you die young). I think this is probably okay, in practice.

StrongForce · 2020-05-08 19:53:06

I was a leader of a town today we got the town out of a tight spot with me giving lots of orders and players teaming up. It felt realy coordinated.

We had a bear griefer tho. It was realy fun defending the town against him. He was very smart and agile with his horse he stole most weapons but I still had my knife. Thanks to the whimpering I was able to get the horse with the weapons back. He got mass cursed but his 12 bears killed alot of players.

By the end of my life the town was in a realy bad place. Just a three girls. I'm sad that he did so much damage but it was a thrilling life.

Last edited by StrongForce (2020-05-08 19:54:59)

Arcurus · 2020-05-08 20:40:12

StrongForce wrote:

I was a leader of a town today we got the town out of a tight spot with me giving lots of orders and players teaming up. It felt realy coordinated.
We had a bear griefer tho. It was realy fun defending the town against him. He was very smart and agile with his horse he stole most weapons but I still had my knife. Thanks to the whimpering I was able to get the horse with the weapons back. He got mass cursed but his 12 bears killed alot of players.
By the end of my life the town was in a realy bad place. Just a three girls. I'm sad that he did so much damage but it was a thrilling life.

one question, if you know his name, and the posse was big enough, why did the whimpering not stop him from stealing things? does the whimpering stop one from taking up something at all or how does it work?

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-08 21:35:03)

Alterior · 2020-05-08 21:23:20

Arcurus wrote:

one question, if you know his name, and the posse was big enough, why did the whimpering not stop him from stealing thinks? does the whimpering stop one from taking up something at all or how does it work?

A posse starts once someone is targeted with a weapon. Once it's big enough, the target drops everything. Including any horse they're riding... So they fall off effectively. They can't pick anything up anymore once they're whimpering.

Arcurus · 2020-05-08 21:36:17

Alterior wrote:

A posse starts once someone is targeted with a weapon. Once it's big enough, the target drops everything. Including any horse they're riding... So they fall off effectively. They can't pick anything up anymore once they're whimpering.

how could he then steal tons of tools? or was it before people became to know about it? I just try to understand why they needed so long to stop him. Was the problem to target him with a posse or to exile him or to keep the posse alive?

By the way what is with one and one posse? with the new system sometimes one is enough to make a posse if enough exiled him, does he then also whimper if its only one in the targeting posse?

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-08 21:39:42)

Spoonwood · 2020-05-09 01:14:54

Someone on the discord said the following:

"well, as expected did the new kill system not work xD
bobo just exterminated another town, using the leader system"

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-05-09 01:15:01)

Cantface · 2020-05-09 01:41:13

Spoonwood wrote:

Someone on the discord said the following:
"well, as expected did the new kill system not work xD
bobo just exterminated another town, using the leader system"

Oh no! I did not see THAT coming. Lawdy lawd blow a fart out my arse and call me Trump what a SURPRISE.

Alterior · 2020-05-09 02:30:18

Yea I was just playing a life where bobo became king. Family didn't last long.

Arcurus · 2020-05-09 12:04:35

Alterior wrote:

Yea I was just playing a life where bobo became king. Family didn't last long.

oh wasnt Bobo a nice king who takes care of his subjects?

Cantface wrote:

Oh no! I did not see THAT coming. Lawdy lawd blow a fart out my arse and call me Trump what a SURPRISE.

@Cantface you Trumped it out!

Spoonwood · 2020-05-09 18:57:28

Well, here's Bobo's response to the update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2GiSFcduRQ

Arcurus · 2020-05-09 19:05:49

Spoonwood wrote:

Well, here's Bobo's response to the update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2GiSFcduRQ

could not wait for it ... he always shows the flaws, good way to debugg...

Cantface · 2020-05-09 19:09:34

Let's be honest we all knew this was going to happen. Nobody is dense enough to think the posse changes would stop him.

Arcurus · 2020-05-09 19:33:56

lol: mother: "oh there are so many babies one could be Bobo." then to her baby, "are you Bobo"... Bobo: "what is a Bobo. can you join me"
Mother: "i join you" that was the end of the village....

I guess better go back to the one and one fight system, at least you could fight back or run away...

here some thought to it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … se_system/

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Update: In Perpetuity

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