Discussion: Would more polling make better updates?

Mr.XIX · 2020-04-29 11:14:29

It has been a while since the polling option was introduced into OHOL.

Since then there have been a few polls, all related to how, when and how much you play.
I was wondering whether it would be possible to use this feature again and whether it would be a good idea or not.

Should the player base be able to vote for which feature they want to be implemented first?
Should the player base be able to vote for which feature they want to be removed?
Is the player base mature enough to know what is good for them?

I'm interested in your thoughts.

Last edited by Mr.XIX (2020-04-29 11:21:00)

Dantox · 2020-04-29 11:57:45

As far as i know, the polling option was used once and was for testing purposes, when people asked to use this feature jason said something like he doesnt really need it because he "already knows what people want" or something like that.

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-04-29 12:02:24

Poll: Do you like the game in it's current state?

99%: Fuck no

DrRoy · 2020-04-29 12:13:33

I think careful polling can help.

They say players are excellent to point out problems with the game, but they are bad at solving them. I think this is mostly true (even if sometimes some player turns out to also be a capable designer).

So, I don't think it would be good to vote which features to implement or which feature should be removed. Otherwise you will have side effects. Maybe the player base turns your game more and more into a mixture of different popular games and destroy its orginality. Or the solutions just don't work in practice etc.

Also, there is a 'too many cooks' problem. It could end up as a weird patchwork product.

But I think voting which aspect of the game is the least fun or the most annoying can be helpful. The decicion how to handle that issue should be in the hands of the developers.

Maybe an overhaul is better than to delete a feature. Maybe its best to add content to overcome the issue and thereby creating new in-game motivations….. You just need to have a good overview of the engine, the current mechanics and the player data to make a solid decision.

Last edited by DrRoy (2020-04-29 12:14:21)

Crumpaloo · 2020-04-29 12:18:36

I mean if you are looking for peoples opinions just look at any given post of the forums currently, you dont need a poll to tell people wanna see positive change.

That being said i do think players should have a say in what needs to be addressed first, after all it is them playing the game the most, if something urgent needs fixing you can bet they will be the first ones to find out.

Im not so sure about removing though, some mechanics in place are meant to serve a certain purpose but just dont do it well. For that they shouldn't be scrapped entirely, but edited upon and revised so they can perform their function. Although id never shy away from saying sometimes its best to take a step back and go at a problem from a different angle.

As for maturity theres plenty of old and experienced players who have played the game long enough to know what works in-game and what doesn't. Those are the main people you wanna listen to for feedback as they will be one of the first people to realize somethings not working as intended.

Mr.XIX · 2020-04-29 12:40:44

Crumpaloo wrote:

As for maturity theres plenty of old and experienced players who have played the game long enough to know what works in-game and what doesn't.

This won't be the case when working with the current polling system, unless you factor in play-time.

Don't all players need to decide what is best for the game?
Isn't new player experience best described by... new players?

DrRoy wrote:

The decicion how to handle that issue should be in the hands of the developers.

This will obviously be the case, we have only 1 cook who makes this game.
The developer still asks the questions, and still has the final say.

My question is, in what way would you ask the poll-questions for this to be useful? (examples?)

Crumpaloo · 2020-04-29 12:57:17

Mr.XIX wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
As for maturity theres plenty of old and experienced players who have played the game long enough to know what works in-game and what doesn't.
This won't be the case when working with the current polling system, unless you factor in play-time.
Don't all players need to decide what is best for the game?
Isn't new player experience best described by... new players?
DrRoy wrote:
The decicion how to handle that issue should be in the hands of the developers.
This will obviously be the case, we have only 1 cook who makes this game.
The developer still asks the questions, and still has the final say.
My question is, in what way would you ask the poll-questions for this to be useful? (examples?)

I think the same way old players should have a louder voice is the same reason people that play games competitively should be heard, they know more then anyone how the game operates. Ask a new player about how to fix eve's being spawn blocked by the males of dead towns preventing race restricted resources from being accessed and they will have no clue what your talking about.

As for new player experiences, the vets can get a pretty good idea. Lot of babies being abandoned as a result of too many babies being born into one family instead of being spread over multiple ones. This makes new players frustrated because they cant even live long enough to do things on their own much less learn how the game works.

testo · 2020-04-29 13:00:56

Whatever we think about the game is irrelevant.

This is not our game, this is not your game and obviously, this is not my game. But it is someones game.

Crumpaloo · 2020-04-29 13:28:24

testo wrote:

Whatever we think about the game is irrelevant.
This is not our game, this is not your game and obviously, this is not my game. But it is someones game.

I mean its a game being sold to us as a product, and if people think the products not worth it people will stop buying it with money, money being the main reason this game can continue development it would be fair to assume that player opinion of said game does matter and thus have a say on certain matters. After all we are the ones who opened our pocketbooks expecting a good product, is it not right that we should expect such and intern ask for improvements?

DrRoy · 2020-04-29 13:31:37

Crumpaloo wrote:

Mr.XIX wrote:
Crumpaloo wrote:
As for maturity theres plenty of old and experienced players who have played the game long enough to know what works in-game and what doesn't.
This won't be the case when working with the current polling system, unless you factor in play-time.
Don't all players need to decide what is best for the game?
Isn't new player experience best described by... new players?
DrRoy wrote:
The decicion how to handle that issue should be in the hands of the developers.
This will obviously be the case, we have only 1 cook who makes this game.
The developer still asks the questions, and still has the final say.
My question is, in what way would you ask the poll-questions for this to be useful? (examples?)
I think the same way old players should have a louder voice is the same reason people that play games competitively should be heard, they know more then anyone how the game operates. Ask a new player about how to fix eve's being spawn blocked by the males of dead towns preventing race restricted resources from being accessed and they will have no clue what your talking about.
As for new player experiences, the vets can get a pretty good idea. Lot of babies being abandoned as a result of too many babies being born into one family instead of being spread over multiple ones. This makes new players frustrated because they cant even live long enough to do things on their own much less learn how the game works.

I will make an example of a question that would be beneficial imo:

Which of the following is the most annoying in the game:
- I can not build everything I want to
- I cannot carry my stuff everywhere I want to
- I can not kill everyone I want to
- I don't know where the things are
- griefers destroy everything
- I don't know what to do
- Life is boring
- None of the above

Then, depending on the result, Jason could work on a solution or make another poll for further clarifications

testo · 2020-04-29 15:41:31

Crumpaloo wrote:

testo wrote:
Whatever we think about the game is irrelevant.
This is not our game, this is not your game and obviously, this is not my game. But it is someones game.
I mean its a game being sold to us as a product, and if people think the products not worth it people will stop buying it with money, money being the main reason this game can continue development it would be fair to assume that player opinion of said game does matter and thus have a say on certain matters. After all we are the ones who opened our pocketbooks expecting a good product, is it not right that we should expect such and intern ask for improvements?

Jason already stated that he sold enough copies of the game. He is working on it just for fun in my opinion. The moment he stops getting enough revenue he can shut it down and move on to another project. He doesn´t even need to shut it down. You bought a product and you got your product: access to his servers. The game and code are completely free.

Crumpaloo · 2020-04-29 15:57:42

testo wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
testo wrote:
Whatever we think about the game is irrelevant.
This is not our game, this is not your game and obviously, this is not my game. But it is someones game.
I mean its a game being sold to us as a product, and if people think the products not worth it people will stop buying it with money, money being the main reason this game can continue development it would be fair to assume that player opinion of said game does matter and thus have a say on certain matters. After all we are the ones who opened our pocketbooks expecting a good product, is it not right that we should expect such and intern ask for improvements?
Jason already stated that he sold enough copies of the game. He is working on it just for fun in my opinion. The moment he stops getting enough revenue he can shut it down and move on to another project. He doesn´t even need to shut it down. You bought a product and you got your product: access to his servers. The game and code are completely free.

I mean if he wants to drop the game i wouldn't blame him but i think until then we as players do have a effect on how the game evolves and gets developed. After all, why bother continuing development on a game in a direction everyone that plays it hates and if to create disinterest in the game to start on something new, just outright end it there, plenty of people willing to pick up the slack on THOL.

Léonard · 2020-04-29 16:00:32

Crumpaloo wrote:

I mean its a game being sold to us as a product, and if people think the products not worth it people will stop buying it with money, money being the main reason this game can continue development it would be fair to assume that player opinion of said game does matter and thus have a say on certain matters.

Oh, man...

If only you knew how bad things really are..

Crumpaloo wrote:

After all we are the ones who opened our pocketbooks expecting a good product, is it not right that we should expect such and intern ask for improvements?

About improvement..
If anyone gets interested enough to read Jason's .. "interesting" replies in the threads I linked, you might notice that's when he pushed around the idea of a "time machine" server to show how his game had gotten better..

jasonrohrer wrote:

Please, step in the time machine and see what it was like 18 months ago. Then tell me that you honestly think it is way worse today than it used to be, OR that it is a worse new player experience today than it was 18 months ago.
[...]
If you had a few more years of game design experience, Spoonhood, you would understand this. Bow before my glory. Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

jasonrohrer wrote:

Please, Spoonmeister, take a play on the Time Machine server and see just how great this game used to be, and how much worse it has become over time.

Well.. I'm still waiting for that early 2019 server, Jason..
Why are you not making this server to show us your "improvements", Jason?
Is it for the same reason you don't use your poll system?

jasonrohrer wrote:

Because I know what people think. And it doesn't matter.
[...]
The Poll feature is NOT really about asking players if they like this or that feature,

Some amazing quotes in that previous poll thread by the way, if anyone is interested enough in reading it.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Swords were added how many months ago?
I'm not adding anything to make the game harder.
I'm trying to add long-term variation, and a bunch of different kinds of possible stories.

jasonrohrer wrote:

New poll question:
What poll should I run in the future?
A. A poll about why you play
B. A poll about why you don't play
C. Another poll about polls.

----------------------------------------------------------

testo wrote:

You bought a product and you got your product: access to his servers. The game and code are completely free.

Ok, Jason.

It's interesting how after such a long time of running his game into the ground, some people literally don't care enough anymore to pretend it was sold as "a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building".

I know your argument wasn't meant as a response to whether the game is pure survival or what it was advertised as anymore, but I mean you have to realize you're literally arguing for the fact that the game isn't even improving at this point, regardless of the type of game its become...

The_Anabaptist · 2020-04-29 16:09:38

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

*huff *huff* let me catch my breath.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Ok. Ok. let me get serious for a moment.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Nope, just can't do it. If you wonder why, just track down my posting history on this subject.

The_Anabaptist

Spoonwood · 2020-04-29 18:21:10

Leonard wrote:

Well.. I'm still waiting for that early 2019 server, Jason..
Why are you not making this server to show us your "improvements", Jason?
Is it for the same reason you don't use your poll system?

I've been playing 2HOL lately. 2HOL does have it's issues (disappearing tarry spots... trees sometimes block you, but you can't see them). Though Jason's game has improvements since early 2019/late 2018, such as the overflow mechanic for food, having played 2HOL without some of those improvements, I do have to agree that the game was better then before the disastorous temperature overhaul (the game lost like 29% of its player population on Steam in March after the temperature overhaul)... and 2HOL doesn't even have random biomes (the topographic ring system is boring) and has a spring system instead of ponds into wells (they have a seed spawn system for Eve-chaining... springs into wells probably fits that better than ponds into wells).

testo · 2020-04-29 18:53:26

Léonard wrote:

testo wrote:
You bought a product and you got your product: access to his servers. The game and code are completely free.
Ok, Jason.
It's interesting how after such a long time of running his game into the ground, some people literally don't care enough anymore to pretend it was sold as "a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building".
I know your argument wasn't meant as a response to whether the game is pure survival or what it was advertised as anymore, but I mean you have to realize you're literally arguing for the fact that the game isn't even improving at this point, regardless of the type of game its become...

Yeah, I know my post may rub you in the wrong way but lets be real, someone has all the years of game developing while others... we are just pawns.

I have no hope of change, i am just playing the game and making the most fun of what is left. I actually did have fun while making my griefing protest, https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9511 and I have a few more in design stages: getting that sweet "jackass" status was my biggest achievement ever in the game.

When I expressed myself here I did it with a mix of sadness/anger/dispair/fear/hopeless/powerless feeling, and not trying to defend the status quo. I believe we are hardly in a different page.

TheRubyCart · 2020-04-29 23:11:40

this is an interesting t o p i c

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#1 2020-04-29 11:14:29

Discussion: Would more polling make better updates?

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Re: Discussion: Would more polling make better updates?

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