What is griefing ?

Elsayal · 2020-04-04 18:16:53

Hi

First, two stories (written in bad english, sorry mates) :

1) I was in a town one day, and I (too quickly ?) 'join' someone who want to kill someone because "he was doing nothing but eating/stealing pie".
The poor guy stand there, maybe he hadn't any idea of what was going on.

2) Another day, I was in another town. My daughter come to me to say that someone was only eating, not working. And said that then he was a griefer. from my experience with the former guy, I thought it could be a new player, trying to stay alive and doing nothing else. Anyway : my daughter state that then, if he does'nt work for the community, she wouldn't either. I didn't care, since you don't "work" in this game, you play, and do whatever you like (right ?).

My question is : what is a griefer ? Is a only eating player a griefer ? Isn't it something far different from destroying a diesel engine or bringing bears in a town ?

What do you think ?

Thanks for your attention

Dodge · 2020-04-04 18:25:35

It's about intent, if he was eating on purpose to cause harm, grief, with malicious intent then yes he's a griefer.

Usually not what griefers do nowadays but at one point in the game there was no limit on what you could eat, so a good griefing method was to simply eat all the food supply and watch players run around in panic trying to find food and eventually starve.

Legs · 2020-04-04 18:26:53

If someone is afk standing next to the fire, are they griefing? With perfect temperature, only tabbing in every few minutes to drink some milk? They're using up the least possible amount of water during a lifetime. Staying somewhere that their babies can be cared for by other mothers. Sure they're not working, but they're not wasting either and that's better than most people.

I see afks getting cursed all the time. Is that curse deserved? Or is the person who's abusing curses like that the griefer here?

Elsayal · 2020-04-04 18:27:41

You can't know the intent just by looking 2 minutes at someone. If he was a newbee, and you kill it, then you are the griefer.

FishRfriendsnotfood · 2020-04-04 18:27:54

Some people get way to bent out of shape about how others play. I've seen people curse AFK folks, babies who /die which doesn't make sense. Cursing without knowing what is going on.
for me personally I let a lot of stuff go because I am not judge, jury and executioner. If they want to make a plopping noise with the rubber...who cares. If they want to run on the road in a circle saying 'wheeeeeeee' who cares. They just want attention and if you don't give it, they'll move on to someone that will.
Bringing a bear or baby boars is griefing. Digging up berry bushes, not griefing.
Too many people are hair triggered by anything. they don't see the 5 bowls of carrot seeds and reeeeeee when you pick the carrots because SEEDs!!!! that's stupid and how can that be fun!? being angry at everyone can't be fun. seeing someone accidentally click and burn a rabbit....and reeeeing about it...can't be fun. seems like it would be stressful as fuck.
but what do I know. I'm only someone that gets Curses so of course I'm 'mad' as the OCD folks would say.
but eating all life....isn't griefing.

Karrots · 2020-04-04 19:03:31

Dodge wrote:

It's about intent, if he was eating on purpose to cause harm, grief, with malicious intent then yes he's a griefer.

The problem with this definition is it has no practical application. How do you determine malice? Should we just take your word for it? Do we make baseless assumptions on hunches?

FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:

Bringing a bear or baby boars is griefing. Digging up berry bushes, not griefing.

Is that always true, though? Maybe they're luring out bears to shoot, and have someone waiting with arrows. Maybe they're genuinely trying to raise pigs. Maybe they are digging up important berry bushes and wasting the only shovel.

FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:

If they want to make a plopping noise with the rubber...who cares. If they want to run on the road in a circle saying 'wheeeeeeee' who cares. They just want attention and if you don't give it, they'll move on to someone that will.

I don't know, that kind of buffoonery can get pretty annoying when you're in the forge trying to work. I could even consider it detrimental to progress when they're being a general waste of space and food.

To answer the original question, there is no real standard for griefing. It depends on the situation. What you should do is ask. If someone is being sus, you should attempt to communicate with them. Have a discussion. What happens after depends on you. You are the judge, jury, and executioner because nobody else will be. You need to make decisions on your own and decide if it's worth killing/cursing them. For the good of your play through and for the good of a town.

Because, well, if you don't make the choice, then who do you think will?

FishRfriendsnotfood · 2020-04-04 19:29:39

Karrots wrote:

Dodge wrote:
It's about intent, if he was eating on purpose to cause harm, grief, with malicious intent then yes he's a griefer.
The problem with this definition is it has no practical application. How do you determine malice? Should we just take your word for it? Do we make baseless assumptions on hunches?
FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:
Bringing a bear or baby boars is griefing. Digging up berry bushes, not griefing.
Is that always true, though? Maybe they're luring out bears to shoot, and have someone waiting with arrows. Maybe they're genuinely trying to raise pigs. Maybe they are digging up important berry bushes and wasting the only shovel.
FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:
If they want to make a plopping noise with the rubber...who cares. If they want to run on the road in a circle saying 'wheeeeeeee' who cares. They just want attention and if you don't give it, they'll move on to someone that will.
I don't know, that kind of buffoonery can get pretty annoying when you're in the forge trying to work. I could even consider it detrimental to progress when they're being a general waste of space and food.
To answer the original question, there is no real standard for griefing. It depends on the situation. What you should do is ask. If someone is being sus, you should attempt to communicate with them. Have a discussion. What happens after depends on you. You are the judge, jury, and executioner because nobody else will be. You need to make decisions on your own and decide if it's worth killing/cursing them. For the good of your play through and for the good of a town.
Because, well, if you don't make the choice, then who do you think will?

why do you think you need to make that decision. isn't it stressful being such a prig all the time?

sigmen4020 · 2020-04-04 20:07:44

Elsayal wrote:

what is a griefer ?

griefer
/ˈɡriːfə/
noun INFORMAL
(in an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment.
"a class of entrepreneurs is emerging who see griefers not just as an annoyance but as a potential source of lost revenue"

So it's all about intent. If someone messes up on accident and it annoys you, they are not a griefer.

As for your examples:

1) Depends on his intent, but he might just be someone who gets enjoyment from talking in this game and not working. Considering that just talking and eating isn't a very effective griefing strategy I would heavily presume that he's not a griefer.

2) Again the guy just eating might just get a different kind of enjoyment and has no bad intentions really. Though that obviously depends on what he intended, which we can only speculate about. Tbh I'd say your daughter was more of a griefer, since she had some bad intent behind doing the same thing, but not very serious griefing if you would even classify that as griefing.

Elsayal wrote:

Is a only eating player a griefer ?

Depends on how they do it, and again obviously intent. Someone just RP'ing around a fire trying to have fun, while also basically just eating wouldn't be a griefer. While someone who fills a backpack with pies and then deliberately wastes them by doing a lot of unnecessary hungry work would most likely be a griefer. Depleting the towns food on purpose.

Elsayal wrote:

Isn't it something far different from destroying a diesel engine or bringing bears in a town ?

For your examples, obviously. I doubt either of those two you mentioned had bad intent behind their actions. But food griefing like I mentioned earlier would still be griefing, just at a lower scale.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2020-04-04 20:09:19)

DestinyCall · 2020-04-04 20:21:27

Elsayal wrote:

You can't know the intent just by looking 2 minutes at someone. If he was a newbee, and you kill it, then you are the griefer.

But if you didn't intend to harm a noob, neither of you are griefing. You just had a serious misunderstanding that ended badly for both people.

This is one of the reasons why I like to encourage communication and education as a first response, instead of relying completely on vigilante killing/cursing. You will sometimes encounter sneaky griefers who hid behind a veil of ignorance, but most people are very obvious about their true intents. You just need to pay attention and ask the right questions.

Trying to define "griefer" is a lot like trying to explain the word "asshole" to someone who has never used it before. How do you know if it is right to call someone an asshole? If you judge them based on a single interaction, you might think they are a horrible person, but you do not know the whole story. There might be a good reason for their actions. On the other hand, if you talk to them for a while, ask them to explain themselves, and learn their motivations you should have no difficulty determining if they deserve to be labeled as a real asshole or forgiven for their rude behavior.

...

In regards to your story, I am suspicious of your daughter. It sounds like she might have just been trying to stir up drama.

Everyone eats food. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone works equally hard for various reasons. There is nothing wrong with that. Standing around eating berries is just a part of village life. There is no point in killing all the berry munchers, since it teaches nothing positive and distracts the real workers from important work. You would end up doing nothing but forming posses and cleaning up corpses all day long. It is so wasteful.

Now, that is not to say that food griefing never happens. But it involves doing a lot more direct damage to the village food supply than just standing around and eating normally.

DestinyCall · 2020-04-04 20:34:35

Legs wrote:

I see afks getting cursed all the time. Is that curse deserved? Or is the person who's abusing curses like that the griefer here?

This is not an either/or situation. Maybe neither one of them is griefing. What was the intent of the person who cursed the AFK person? Did they do it to cause harm or to protect the village from a percieved threat?

Personally, I reserve my curses for direct threats, like destructive griefers. I would not consider it important or reasonable to curse someone for going AFK near a fire. Or for being an AFK baby. But based on posts by other users, some people consider it exploitative behavior and see it as harmful. They don't want to play around people who use AFKing to boost their meme score, so they kill or curse them.

Legs · 2020-04-04 20:36:07

Much like in real life, communication in game is often pointless. A convincing argument is more about shouting over the opposition than anything else. The people shouting loudest are usually griefers, or at best pernicious morons. That's why appeal to majority is almost always wrong. Mob rule killed Socrates. There's nothing right about pandering to idiots.

Legs · 2020-04-04 20:38:14

Ah. I know better than this. Don't feed the troll. Right. Not replying to destiny any more.

Karrots · 2020-04-04 20:58:17

FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:

Karrots wrote:
Because, well, if you don't make the choice, then who do you think will?

why do you think you need to make that decision. isn't it stressful being such a prig all the time?

I already answered your question. If everyone assumes someone else can fix it, nothing gets done. And I don't know about you, but seeing generations of cooperation torn apart by some troll with a sadistic streak is annoying. I want to stop them before they ruin everything I've worked on, and I'd want you to do the same if you saw someone undoing my work.

FishRfriendsnotfood · 2020-04-04 21:13:49

karrots you said specifically that releasing fed baby boars on a village and bringing bears to a village isn't griefing. So I wouldn't trust your judgment on anything.

Legs · 2020-04-04 21:24:35

Don't trust the self-righteous; they are most likely to do evil.

The wrong they do every day is just after all. Right?

Elsayal · 2020-04-04 21:27:11

FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:

karrots you said specifically that releasing fed baby boars on a village and bringing bears to a village isn't griefing. So I wouldn't trust your judgment on anything.

He didn't said anything close to that statement. Why are you trolling ?

FishRfriendsnotfood · 2020-04-04 21:41:46

Karrots wrote:

Dodge wrote:
It's about intent, if he was eating on purpose to cause harm, grief, with malicious intent then yes he's a griefer.
FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:
Bringing a bear or baby boars is griefing. Digging up berry bushes, not griefing.
Is that always true, though? Maybe they're luring out bears to shoot, and have someone waiting with arrows. Maybe they're genuinely trying to raise pigs. Maybe they are digging up important berry bushes and wasting the only shovel.

specifically right there man. totally fine with someone bringing bears to town....cuz hunting? releasing fed baby boars is fine cuz.....pig raising?

but by all means, call me a troll when the evidence stands.

Elsayal · 2020-04-04 22:14:26

Yes indeed, he said exactly that.
But not "releasing" fed baby boars on a village or "bringing" bears to a village.

Anyway, no harm. I'm sure we are agree on the principle. Judging without knowing is quite bad

Karrots · 2020-04-05 17:38:42

FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:

karrots you said specifically that releasing fed baby boars on a village and bringing bears to a village isn't griefing. So I wouldn't trust your judgment on anything.

No, you missed the point of that argument. I was giving examples of how maybe something you interpret as malicious is not necessarily so. You yourself said it depended on intent, and I was attempting to prove that the person may have a very good reason for doing something suspicious.

I wrote:

You wrote:
Bringing a bear or baby boars is griefing. Digging up berry bushes, not griefing.
Is that always true, though? Maybe they're luring out bears to shoot, and have someone waiting with arrows. Maybe they're genuinely trying to raise pigs. Maybe they are digging up important berry bushes and wasting the only shovel.

See how I challenge every one of your statements? Showing how any of these actions could be justified or unjustified depending on the situation?

My point is there is no universal standard for griefing. Context matters. What may be griefing in one situation may be acceptable behavior in another.

This is why I stressed communication. If you don't know the whole story, how can you make a fair judgement?

FishRfriendsnotfood · 2020-04-05 18:17:26

because bringing a backpack of baby boars and feeding them in towns to kill everyone is griefing, making pigs doesn't cut it, bringing bears to town is griefing, you suggested someone was waiting with a backpack of arrows....so why would you lure a bear into town to have another person with arrows kill it in town. that makes zero sense and would be griefing regardless. your 'challenges' are moot regarding intent in those 2 instances.

Gogo · 2020-04-05 21:14:45

Griefers intencionally doing damage to spoil others lives and work, there's also wasters who eats food and doing nothing which is similar, so you probably did good. AFK's are also a problem - when times are bad, like a bear or very low food and afk or afk's baby die cause there wasn't anyone to look after it = lower gene score, so cursing them is also good.

Karrots · 2020-04-05 21:31:18

FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:

because bringing a backpack of baby boars and feeding them in towns to kill everyone is griefing, making pigs doesn't cut it, bringing bears to town is griefing, you suggested someone was waiting with a backpack of arrows....so why would you lure a bear into town to have another person with arrows kill it in town. that makes zero sense and would be griefing regardless. your 'challenges' are moot regarding intent in those 2 instances.

I don't know. Accidents happen. I might've poorly made my pig pen and accidentally released the boars onto the town. And I don't see a problem with hunting bears for rugs. But the specific situations aren't the point... I am just trying to say that no action is always griefing in every circumstance.

FishRfriendsnotfood · 2020-04-05 22:42:43

bear luring is always griefing.

Legs · 2020-04-05 23:02:46

What if they're building a bear arena?

Is the bearena griefing?

Cantface · 2020-04-05 23:22:13

Legs wrote:

What if they're building a bear arena?
Is the bearena griefing?

I would say no. An old family member passed a bearena down to me one life after I kept checking up on it and I made sure to fix the fences and I cleared any clothes in there myself(ppl used it for suicide a few times, including the original owner ofc), gave them back to the town so nobody had any problems with it.

I see the bearena as a blood sport unique to the ohol verse, I smile whenever I see one. A little bit of fun in an otherwise 'work work work' game.

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What is griefing ?

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