A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

Spoonwood · 2020-01-16 00:00:14

I agree that there's something in the game that can accurately get called parenting in the game. I agree that there's something in the game that can accurately get called civilization building.

But, where is the survival? Every player dies every life. It's called One Hour One Life, so alright.

But where is the survival in some other sense? Every family dies and there's a plan to kill off any every remaining family every week or so. Jason's updates kills off families regularly. And I don't think it too hard to see that his code changes signal that he plans to implement code to kill families off.

No, really, why are you so tolerant of this? Why do people like Twisted say that such a doomed state is "kind of the point" when it's supposed to be a survival game, not a death game? Why do people like fug, who's played for a long time, just say its been that way for a while and dismiss such as a non-problem? Have they gotten trained by playing to just ignore caring about their group surviving and getting treated like they have an opportunity to survive? Has seeing 'you died' just make it so that they don't really care if their lineages have any sort of opportunity long-term?

A multiplayer death game of parenting and civilization building. That's all it has ever been. Is there a single hope that it become something different? And if never gives an opportunity for some kind of survival in it long-term, does there really exist any serious value in it?

Twisted · 2020-01-16 00:05:04

Really, yet ANOTHER thread about the same thing?

Nothing lasts, which means every life is completely unique. You play one small part of a unique story that will never be repeated. You can never get the full picture, and that makes the small snippets that much more interesting to me. It's what makes sharing stories with other players so interesting, it's the only way to get insight and context about the life you just lived.

If things last forever then it becomes a game of getting placed in the same town and in the same situation over and over again. We had that in the Rift, most players disliked it (you included if I recall correctly).

Spoonwood · 2020-01-16 01:44:12

Twisted wrote:

Nothing lasts, which means every life is completely unique.

In every OHOL life you die. So, every life is the same in at least one respect. [edited sentence to clarify intended meaning] Thus, not every life is completely unique.

Twisted wrote:

It's what makes sharing stories with other players so interesting, it's the only way to get insight and context about the life you just lived.

The context of your OHOL life is that you will die. The context of your family's life is that they will die.

Twisted wrote:

If things last forever then it becomes a game of getting placed in the same town and in the same situation over and over again.

I made no claims about non-player objects lasting forever.

Twisted wrote:

We had that in the Rift ...

You seem to have confused towns with lineages. Eternal lineages didn't exist inside of The Rift. Didn't the reset conditions kill off the remaining families also? There's one thread where Jason predicted that the Boots family would get surpassed. But, that didn't happen. And why would it? He's built a game from the ground up that leans in the direction of lineages dying out in so many ways. There don't exist adequate tools for dealing with murderous griefers. There doesn't exist permanent identifications. There's no mechanism for dealing with what happened to the Fires: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5793843 to keep the lineage going. Women don't give birth to bots if they don't have a girl by a certain point. There is no way of restarting the lineage by a member of the family returning with the same name via burial return or living to 60 and having a choice screen. And honestly, why would Jason be interested in such mechanisms, when he won't even accept lineages dying out by updates as a serious and ongoing problem?

My point stands Twisted.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-01-16 02:23:35)

fug · 2020-01-16 01:54:39

You know what would have helped fix the problem instead of making 20 spam threads with a bunch of reposts? Actually reporting the issue in a sensible way to the github to see what Jason could do to fix it. Currently he's working on making families stronger to prevent the whole issue of a bunch of senseless Eves spawning just to die.

Oh wait you just shitpost there instead of presenting real problems in a sensible way.

Legs · 2020-01-16 01:57:18

ENTROPY MUST CONSUME US ALL
THE HEAT DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE IS INEVITABLE
SOME DAY, THE LAST STAR WILL BURN OUT

MEMENTO MORI

REMEMBER DEATH YOU FOOLISH MORTALS
IT ALL RETURNS TO DUST IN THE END

antking:]# · 2020-01-16 01:58:00

Spoonwood wrote:

Twisted wrote:
Nothing lasts, which means every life is completely unique.
In every OHOL life you die. So, every life is the same. Thus, not every life is completely unique.

Because everyone dies in the real world does it mean that all our lives are the same? That my life is the same as some one who lives on the opposite side of the world? just because we both will die?

AmberA · 2020-01-16 02:10:32

Spoonwood to answer your question "No, really, why are you so tolerant of this?"

Because WE DONT CARE THAT MUCH if a family lineage survives or not. If it's a family I create then I monitor it and help them out when I can but when they die out I'm not that sad. Everything in this game is temporary and I'm ok with that. I actually like that other families die out as well. As we saw from the Rift, if certain families get too big or too strong then they over power others and you end up being born into the same family repeatedly and that gets boring.

Do families die off a little too quickly? Yes I think so. Is it a problem that families die off? Not for me no.

As someone who isn't that active on the forums, I'd suggest taking a break from the game and/or the forums because you are far too invested in demanding this change. Even I (who only occasionally post) recognizes your repeated posting of the same topic.

Short answer: I and many others don't want or don't care about eternal lineages.

Last edited by AmberA (2020-01-16 02:11:28)

Spoonwood · 2020-01-16 02:15:16

fug wrote:

You know what would have helped fix the problem instead of making 20 spam threads with a bunch of reposts? Actually reporting the issue in a sensible way to the github to see what Jason could do to fix it. Currently he's working on making families stronger to prevent the whole issue of a bunch of senseless Eves spawning just to die.
Oh wait you just shitpost there instead of presenting real problems in a sensible way.

There's a report with just a title and no suggestion of how such should get solved: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/562

Do you think this sentence makes any sense:

jasonrohrer wrote:

Can't shut the server down without killing people.

as if the server shutdown killed players instead of lineages?

It's always been the case that lineages can't survive updates, implying that this has always been a multiplayer death game, instead of a multiplayer survival game where lineage survival is possible long-term.

Spoonwood · 2020-01-16 02:22:52

antking:]# wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Twisted wrote:
Nothing lasts, which means every life is completely unique.
In every OHOL life you die. So, every life is the same. Thus, not every life is completely unique.
Because everyone dies in the real world does it mean that all our lives are the same? That my life is the same as some one who lives on the opposite side of the world? just because we both will die?

No, to the first question.

No, to the second question.

No, to the third question.

Just because two things are not completely dissimilar, that does not make them similar.

Drat... I meant that every life is the same in some respect. Thus, not every life is completely unique. Thanks for the questions! I'll edit what posted above.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-01-16 02:26:55)

Spoonwood · 2020-01-16 02:26:36

AmberA wrote:

I actually like that other families die out as well. As we saw from the Rift, if certain families get too big or too strong then they over power others and you end up being born into the same family repeatedly and that gets boring.

Did families move around much during The Rift? Was it because you were in the same families, or because you were in the same towns at similar levels of development over and over?

Jojigirl · 2020-01-16 02:36:38

Spoonwood, I am by far the last person to gang up on anyone, but all of the "Family survival" threads could have been placed and talked about in 1 single thread..

I can see why people are getting frustrated with you, by making a thread about the same topic over and over again.. Heck, I'm feeling a little annoyed now.. They just go about it the wrong way Ie: Bullying thread, which is never the right way to go.

Unless you really are trying to get under people's skin, please condense this topic down to 1 thread.. This is unnecessary and I'm starting to feel bamboozled every time I open up a thread from you repeating the same thing you have said in the last 5 threads. I'm sure Jason has seen your point of view by now.. If he agrees with you he will find a solution.. At this point you are beating a dead horse..

Jason please make me a Mod so that I can combine all of these threads together.. I understand you want mods to moderate very light handed but this should have been handled and combined with the other threads by the mods you have now.. Mods, do your job please.

Last edited by Jojigirl (2020-01-16 02:39:39)

JasonY · 2020-01-16 06:58:47

Jojigirl wrote:

Spoonwood, I am getting frustrated with you, by making a thread about the same topic over and over again.. Heck, I'm feeling a little annoyed now.
Unless you really are trying to get under people's skin, please condense this topic down to 1 thread.. This is unnecessary and I'm starting to feel bamboozled every time I open up a thread from you repeating the same thing you have said in the last 5 threads. I'm sure Jason has seen your point of view by now.. If he agrees with you he will find a solution.. At this point you are beating a dead horse..
Jason please make me a Mod so that I can combine all of these threads together.. I understand you want mods to moderate very light handed but this should have been handled and combined with the other threads by the mods you have now.. Mods, do your job please.

Twisted · 2020-01-16 10:32:35

Spoonwood wrote:

In every OHOL life you die. So, every life is the same in at least one respect.

Every forum user has a name. So, every forum user is the same.

I, Spoonwood, officialy declare that I will no longer post multiple spam topics, instead I will keep everything contained to this post. There, problem solved.

DarkDrak · 2020-01-16 11:55:08

The survival aspect of this game is to live as long as you can. At least long enough to reproduce and pass this task to the next generation. And also to help the other people survive aswell. Actually, making the survival of others easier during your lifetime is more important than your own survival, imo.

I really see nothing wrong with every single life in this game coming to an end eventually. Hell, imagine if one could live forever? Now THAT would be a problem.

As for the lineages dying out... it simply means that some people along the line have failed the survival task. They died without being able to pass the task to the next generation. Nothing more than that. That's one of the beauty of this game imo: that your own survival is not for your own sake, instead a whole lineage can weight on your shoulders. And it's also what gives a long lineage a value: there are so many points in time where it could've died out but it lived through it. Having a 1000 generation lineage just because it's the only lineage that people could spawn in takes that value away and makes it a void number. Same if a lineage couldn't die out in any way.

I also really don't see how death by upgrades is relevant in the context of death of lineages. It affects such a small portion of lineage death to be a non-problem. In 24 hours you can get up to 70th generation more or less, so between one upgrade and the other the potential goes almost up to 500. And yet nowdays lineages can't even survive for 72 hours straight. So until we can get to a point where lineages can survive 300-400 generations, death by upgrades feels so irrelevant. Like, even if we could survive through upgrades, lineages would still be doomed before the 200th generation mark anyway.

Now, Spoon, this actually is an interesting argument... but if your way to get people to talk about it is to spamm until people reply, then personally ima make it a point to never give my opinion on your threads.

Spoonwood · 2020-01-16 13:21:12

Twisted wrote:

Every forum user has a name. So, every forum user is the same.

Every forum user is the same in one respect, yes.

You aren't Spoonwood. I do think that you were joking though when you called yourself Spoonwood though Twisted.

That said putting a joke next to serious information probably does make for one effective way to distract people from the serious information.

Spoonwood · 2020-01-16 14:07:19

DarkDrak wrote:

At least long enough to reproduce and pass this task to the next generation.

Living long enough doesn't suffice for reproducing, nor passing such a task to the next generation.

DarkDrak wrote:

I really see nothing wrong with every single life in this game coming to an end eventually.

I agree.

DarkDrak wrote:

As for the lineages dying out... it simply means that some people along the line have failed the survival task.

No. Not in all cases by any means.

Take a look at the Dobbies: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5795292 The players didn't fail there in the survival task. There were no female children who stuck around. The Pros didn't have any children after their 2nd generation: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5797422 The Josephs didn't have any children even stick around: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5797622 Andria didn't even have a single child. The last Snow mom only had one /die child and that's it: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5798130 The Trishs didn't have the girls try to survive (and if one doesn't try, one can't fail, nor succeed of course) http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5799645 The Marcias also didn't have any female children who tried to make it to their fertility period: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5798127 This nameless lineage didn't have any children who didn't suicide in the last generation: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5800838

And on top of that, even if they did survive until the next update period, they wouldn't have any children once the update came. And thus there wouldn't exist any way for the lineage to go on living during the update, nor does there exist any way for the lineage to come back into existence after the update.

DarkDrak wrote:

Having a 1000 generation lineage just because it's the only lineage that people could spawn in takes that value away and makes it a void number. Same if a lineage couldn't die out in any way.

I agree with both of these statements (well what you mean by them, I think).

DarkDrak wrote:

I also really don't see how death by upgrades is relevant in the context of death of lineages. It affects such a small portion of lineage death to be a non-problem.

I couldn't disagree more. You said it affects a small portion of lineage death. So, it's still a cause. A cause doesn't have to have a big effect relatively speaking to other causes to qualify as a cause. A cause just has to produce the effect in question. Does the update process cause lineage death? Sure does. Is such lineage death inevitable because of how the update process works? It sure is. When lineage death happens because of an update occurs, was there anything that the players could have done to enable the lineage to survive? Nope. And that's why it's a problem. Because the players trying to get their lineages to survive don't have a possibility of their lineages surviving no matter what they do.

Seriously, what sort of game is it when you're doomed to failure?

What sort of group survival game is it when the group can't survive?

DarkDrak wrote:

In 24 hours you can get up to 70th generation more or less, so between one upgrade and the other the potential goes almost up to 500. And yet nowdays lineages can't even survive for 72 hours straight. So until we can get to a point where lineages can survive 300-400 generations, death by upgrades feels so irrelevant.

We won't get to a point where lineages can survive 300-400 generations until we understand all of the design flaws which prevent such from happening. We won't understand the design flaws until we can acknowledge their existence as problems. And since Jason, and those trying to give him information like yourself DarkDrak can't even acknowledge the lineage death by update problem as a problem, we have a big signal that we aren't heading in the direction of understanding the problems causing lineage death as problems. Honestly, the lineage death by update problem is the simplest and clearest problem of lineage death to figure out as a problem. If Jason and many others trying to give him advice can't acknowledge the simplest and clearest problem as a problem, what hope is there for understanding the more complex ones and not so clear ones?

Also, if lineages could survive updates, there would exist hope. And the average generation length of lineages would likely go up.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-01-16 00:00:14

A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#2 2020-01-16 00:05:04

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#3 2020-01-16 01:44:12

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#4 2020-01-16 01:54:39

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#5 2020-01-16 01:57:18

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#6 2020-01-16 01:58:00

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#7 2020-01-16 02:10:32

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#8 2020-01-16 02:15:16

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#9 2020-01-16 02:22:52

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#10 2020-01-16 02:26:36

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#11 2020-01-16 02:36:38

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#12 2020-01-16 06:58:47

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#13 2020-01-16 10:32:35

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#14 2020-01-16 11:55:08

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#15 2020-01-16 13:21:12

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

#16 2020-01-16 14:07:19

Re: A Multiplayer Death Game of Parenting and Civilization Building

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