Maybe Property Fences Shouldn't Exist

Spoonwood · 2020-01-05 17:02:36

Someone on the discord said this: "Nearly got kidnapped and locked in property fence"

Someone else on the discord responded by referring to this image: https://discordapp.com/channels/3282153 … 0279500800

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-01-05 17:07:34)

Whatever · 2020-01-05 17:33:37

Oh noes, someone from discord got nearly kidnapped

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6022

StrongForce · 2020-01-05 17:44:30

If you walk in a property you don't have permission to you deserve the darwin award

DestinyCall · 2020-01-05 18:24:02

How do property fences work? They are just flimsy sticks stuck in the ground but they are stronger than a stone wall. It makes no sense.

voy178 · 2020-01-05 18:56:47

DestinyCall wrote:

How do property fences work? They are just flimsy sticks stuck in the ground but they are stronger than a stone wall. It makes no sense.

It's stronger than a stone wall because people just can't be nice and play along.

Spoonwood · 2020-01-05 19:09:43

Whatever wrote:

Oh noes, someone from discord got nearly kidnapped
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6022

About 10 minutes after I wrote this I remembered that you had pointed out this problem a long time ago. Thanks for the reference. I'm currently out of curse tokens, so you're in luck this time.

DestinyCall · 2020-01-05 20:26:06

voy178 wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
How do property fences work? They are just flimsy sticks stuck in the ground but they are stronger than a stone wall. It makes no sense.
It's stronger than a stone wall because people just can't be nice and play along.

Yes, but how does it work? According to Jason, property fences work like homesteading. You stake your claim to a particular area, and if the community doesn't tear down your fence, then it gains legitimacy as private property over time. But if you get trapped inside of a property fence, why can't you just step over the sticks and escape? I can see how a law-abiding citizen might respect the sanctity of another man's property and refuse to enter it to grab that hoe he wants ... but why would anyone choose to die inside a knee-high fence rather than LEAVE someone's claimed property?

It seems to me that property fences should work more like specialty biomes. The area defined by the fence and property gate should be a "no touch" zone that prevents non-owners from interacting with items on the ground and in boxes or on tables, because anything inside the fence "doesn't belong to you". The way that property fences work doesn't actually make logical sense, either real world or based on the in-game concept it is trying to achieve.

Punkypal · 2020-01-05 20:39:10

DestinyCall wrote:

voy178 wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:
How do property fences work? They are just flimsy sticks stuck in the ground but they are stronger than a stone wall. It makes no sense.
It's stronger than a stone wall because people just can't be nice and play along.

Yes, but how does it work? According to Jason, property fences work like homesteading. You stake your claim to a particular area, and if the community doesn't tear down your fence, then it gains legitimacy as private property over time. But if you get trapped inside of a property fence, why can't you just step over the sticks and escape? I can see how a law-abiding citizen might respect the sanctity of another man's property and refuse to enter it to grab that hoe he wants ... but why would anyone choose to die inside a knee-high fence rather than LEAVE someone's claimed property?
It seems to me that property fences should work more like specialty biomes. The area defined by the fence and property gate should be a "no touch" zone that prevents non-owners from interacting with items on the ground and in boxes or on tables, because anything inside the fence "doesn't belong to you". The way that property fences work doesn't actually make logical sense, either real world or based on the in-game concept it is trying to achieve.

That would make perfect sense. Or even make them so you can pass through to get out. but not get in. If someone lets you in and you grab something and run off with it, well I guess they shouldn't have let you in.

I suspect Jason did want to make a griefer baby killing tool. At this point in the game I find it hard to believe all these things he introduces he can't forsee all the obvious ways they will be used to grief with if he does them the way he does. It's almost like he thinks up new griefer tools, and then tries to come up with a clever excuse to explain why he's introducing them that's useful.

Cantface · 2020-01-05 20:53:53

DestinyCall wrote:

It seems to me that property fences should work more like specialty biomes. The area defined by the fence and property gate should be a "no touch" zone that prevents non-owners from interacting with items on the ground...

(⌐■3■)b Good idea! +1

Although people might then turn to hoarding valuable items for the funsies.

DestinyCall · 2020-01-05 23:06:26

Cantface wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
It seems to me that property fences should work more like specialty biomes. The area defined by the fence and property gate should be a "no touch" zone that prevents non-owners from interacting with items on the ground...
(⌐■3■)b Good idea! +1
Although people might then turn to hoarding valuable items for the funsies.

Yes. Isn't hoarding the whole point of private property?

Punkypal · 2020-01-05 23:08:26

Cantface wrote:

Although people might then turn to hoarding valuable items for the funsies.

People already do that. No everyone uses property fences to kidnap and starve babies of course.

jcwilk · 2020-01-05 23:39:08

DestinyCall wrote:

voy178 wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:
How do property fences work? They are just flimsy sticks stuck in the ground but they are stronger than a stone wall. It makes no sense.
It's stronger than a stone wall because people just can't be nice and play along.

Yes, but how does it work? According to Jason, property fences work like homesteading. You stake your claim to a particular area, and if the community doesn't tear down your fence, then it gains legitimacy as private property over time. But if you get trapped inside of a property fence, why can't you just step over the sticks and escape? I can see how a law-abiding citizen might respect the sanctity of another man's property and refuse to enter it to grab that hoe he wants ... but why would anyone choose to die inside a knee-high fence rather than LEAVE someone's claimed property?
It seems to me that property fences should work more like specialty biomes. The area defined by the fence and property gate should be a "no touch" zone that prevents non-owners from interacting with items on the ground and in boxes or on tables, because anything inside the fence "doesn't belong to you". The way that property fences work doesn't actually make logical sense, either real world or based on the in-game concept it is trying to achieve.

It shouldn't be no touch, it should be touch is a crime. It should make you move slowly like bloody hands and make a !! thingy like that too so people can know when someone is trying to steal.

Preventing people from entering but not leaving would be difficult to get to work because think about an airlock property fence door. The inside door leads to an enclosed space on either side, so should it block from entering, block from leaving, or not block? How does the game know which direction is leaving and which is entering?

Maybe it could say if the enclosed space has no other doors then don't block them in, but then there's probably some circular situation where a series of rooms has multiple doors but they all lead to each other. Even if some super complex rule was determined it would be very difficult to understand for players to use and to figure out how to make a fence so their stuff stays protected

Spoonwood · 2020-01-05 23:54:27

Punkypal wrote:

At this point in the game I find it hard to believe all these things he introduces he can't forsee all the obvious ways they will be used to grief with if he does them the way he does.

I think there's a saying that goes something like one should never attribute to malice something that one can attribute to stupidity. Imputing that people have malicious intent is not nice, ever, even if necessary.

Spoonwood · 2020-01-05 23:56:35

DestinyCall wrote:

voy178 wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:
How do property fences work? They are just flimsy sticks stuck in the ground but they are stronger than a stone wall. It makes no sense.
It's stronger than a stone wall because people just can't be nice and play along.

Yes, but how does it work? According to Jason, property fences work like homesteading. You stake your claim to a particular area, and if the community doesn't tear down your fence, then it gains legitimacy as private property over time. But if you get trapped inside of a property fence, why can't you just step over the sticks and escape? I can see how a law-abiding citizen might respect the sanctity of another man's property and refuse to enter it to grab that hoe he wants ... but why would anyone choose to die inside a knee-high fence rather than LEAVE someone's claimed property?
It seems to me that property fences should work more like specialty biomes. The area defined by the fence and property gate should be a "no touch" zone that prevents non-owners from interacting with items on the ground and in boxes or on tables, because anything inside the fence "doesn't belong to you". The way that property fences work doesn't actually make logical sense, either real world or based on the in-game concept it is trying to achieve.

I agree that property fences should work that way. Whether such can get coded as easily as biome restrictions were though is another matter.

Cantface · 2020-01-06 00:08:57

Punkypal wrote:

People already do that. No everyone uses property fences to kidnap and starve babies of course.

DestinyCall wrote:

Yes. Isn't hoarding the whole point of private property?

Well then I guess everything is fine lol! I just don't want someone building a big property fence to steal the whole mf town of most of its valuable contents and have to deal with that all the time. It would put me off again if it was a huge issue, as of now it's not.

Ooh, I only got murdered once today and I saw a Bearena so that was nice!
三ᕕʕ •`ᴥ•´ ʔ୨ ✧┗(• ε • )┓三

Last edited by Cantface (2020-01-06 00:54:50)

Dantox · 2020-01-06 05:47:39

I see property fences as an lazy attempt to add property on a game which is not ready yet to have any, so i dont expect them to stay on, say, the next 2 years (assuming development doesnt stop by then) and will be quickly replaced or deleted by a much better alternative which isnt as limiting.

Swords shouldnt exist, and they pretty much are non-existent nowadays, so i expect the same to happen here.

DestinyCall · 2020-01-06 08:00:34

When was the last time you saw someone use property fences for anything other than sheep pens? They are pretty much already dead content.

Spoonwood · 2020-01-06 09:57:42

DestinyCall wrote:

When was the last time you saw someone use property fences for anything other than sheep pens? They are pretty much already dead content.

Jason mentioned his attempt to use private property a few weeks ago, as an attempt to demonstrate that private property can make it more likely that your children will survive *in OHOL*. He got killed by some posse who shouted things like 'PROPERTY IN COMMON. SHARE BY ALL" as I recall him saying.

Jcwilk used property fence for his 'bearena'.

There's a property fence bear pen in WBSteve's video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXAiuPi1-Gw

jcwilk · 2020-01-06 10:10:31

Spoonwood wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
When was the last time you saw someone use property fences for anything other than sheep pens? They are pretty much already dead content.
Jason mentioned his attempt to use private property a few weeks ago, as an attempt to demonstrate that private property can make it more likely that your children will survive *in OHOL*. He got killed by some posse who shouted things like 'PROPERTY IN COMMON. SHARE BY ALL" as I recall him saying.
Jcwilk used property fence for his 'bearena'.
There's a property fence bear pen in WBSteve's video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXAiuPi1-Gw

The bear run video was me also xD didn't know he was recording. if you see someone doing weird symmetrical shit with property fences it's probably me

testo · 2020-01-06 11:28:02

Dantox wrote:

I see property fences as an lazy attempt to add property on a game which is not ready yet to have any, so i dont expect them to stay on, say, the next 2 years (assuming development doesnt stop by then) and will be quickly replaced or deleted by a much better alternative which isnt as limiting.
Swords shouldnt exist, and they pretty much are non-existent nowadays, so i expect the same to happen here.

I agree with the first part, property fences were a poor attempt to create property. I disagree on the second part, I believe OHOL will never be able to adopt a procedural property model, the time constrain is simply too big of an issue. By the time you own something the only thing you can do is pass it on to your children. other players you have known for three minutes. There is also the problem of players playing as several characters (if a family owns something I can still be born to a different family and give everything to my first family).

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#1 2020-01-05 17:02:36

Maybe Property Fences Shouldn't Exist

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