Here's a few ideas that might actually help our game

Carrot-Seedling · 2019-12-26 01:54:01

tl;dr at bottom

So the last couple updates have been controversial. But their problem is bad execution rather than bad intent. It's been mostly punishments for not doing something (genes score hates you for having bad moms, blonds are useless, you can't do anything cool because tool slots). So how can we change the previous updates to appease the people?

How about we change tool slots like this:
- Tool slot number shouldn't change.
- Tool slots should be used on a tool rather than auto-learn
- You can use all tools as-is, but you can learn tools and be even better at them. A baker makes turkey faster and better pies, or an axe/shovel gets broken less fast, etc etc etc.

Races can change like this:
- Blond people are people too, give them a buff or a way to have slaves so that they can order others around to do things for them.
- Everyone can get all the essentials. Rubber materials, oil, horses, weird infinite shrimp.
- Everyone can use things in all the biomes.
- Races get bonuses for their biome, but only fun little things. Gingers can have snow castles and fishing, tans can have tattoos and mango trees, blacks can have paints and heat immunity, and blonds can have increased talking power and dyes (rabbitlands people!). Or whatever works.

This encourages trade. People trade for things like dyes and paints (Oooh, I can look like royalty and pass it to my children!), but less so for important things like oil (why trade when you can raid or get it yourself and keep your stuff?). You can trade people too, to make more stuff in your villages and to have someone harvest turquoise for you.

TL;DR: give rewards for doing/being something, rather than punishments for not doing/being something. People like rewards more than they dislike punishments. And too many punishments makes the playerbase run away.

edit: rewording. And Merry Christmas

Last edited by Carrot-Seedling (2019-12-26 04:30:35)

Mekkie · 2019-12-26 02:42:15

This would be nice... progress shouldn't be gated by race, but having different foods/cosmetics for race would be a nice balance.

Tool slots i just hate outright. Every time i try to play i'm reminded why i quit. Just now I just suicided because I ran out of tool slots cause mom needed a hoe, and smithing one took up all but 1 slot.

I couldn't even bury her, or my adopted son because apparently you need a PhD in shovels to dig a hole. Even RP is nerfed. Specialization over restriction would be a very welcome change.

SirCaio · 2019-12-26 03:39:03

I guess an interesting "solution" to the restrictions put up by family specialty would be the reduction of so by the addition of the highly asked marriage and dads feature, as to create mixed babies that have both specializations. We gotta remember that there are still two unused skin tones.
FluxBB bbcode test

Toxolotl · 2019-12-26 05:05:55

SirCaio wrote:

I guess an interesting "solution" to the restrictions put up by family specialty would be the reduction of so by the addition of the highly asked marriage and dads feature, as to create mixed babies that have both specializations. We gotta remember that there are still two unused skin tones.
https://onetech.info/static/sprites/obj_11.png

This still forces commingling. Main issue with the game right now is that there is no diversity. Tool slots reduce the diversity of an individual life, race restrictions reduce the diversity of family lines. Until players truly have their freedom back the experience will continue to be boxed in.

In an attempt to promote trade and more diversity between lives its done the opposite. Players now have no choice in how they play and are forced into playstyles that are even more frustrating and repetitive than ever before.

Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-12-26 05:06:47)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-26 05:54:00

No tool slots.

No biome restrictions.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-26 06:52:57

Ideally, the biome specialization should have involved reworking the early tech tree to allow different races to actually SETTLE in unique biomes.

Instead of locking out the other races, there could have been a strong incentive for gingers to settle in the arctic - like they have a natural tolerance to cold, but over-heat quickly. This would give them the ability to settle the coldest parts of the map, but they'd have a tough time entering the hottest parts. Gingers build snow villages and coffees make desert cities and chocolates can live in the jungle with yellow fever immunity.

If everyone's natural biome is close to perfect temp for them AND contains everything they need for basic survival, venturing into other areas is still possible but much harder/less desirable. Eves will tend to settle in the appropriate biome to give their family the best chance at survival until they rise further up the tech tree and gain access to better food and better clothing options that eventually allow them to venture deeper into hostile biomes more safely. The natives will always be more comfortable than non-natives, so trading with existing villages might make more sense than forming a single mega city. Also, if some new special resources were added that require technology to access - like iron and oil - it would be easier for a native to setup camp and work on a prolonged project. Non-natives could do the same, but bartering for the finished product would be much faster and easier.

The key point is that each village type MUST be able to exist independently. Basic survival shouldn't depend on finding three more villages before the deep well runs dry. That doesn't work. And making the entire biome inaccessible is too strict and too confusing. The biome restrictions should be intuitive and flexible, so people understand what they need to do and adjust their actions accordingly.

testo · 2019-12-26 07:15:49

This is not our game. This is not your game. This is not their game and obviously this is not my game. Sorry to break your bubble.

Dantox · 2019-12-26 10:20:08

testo wrote:

This is not our game. This is not your game. This is not their game and obviously this is not my game. Sorry to break your bubble.

no fun allowed

ollj · 2019-12-26 14:03:25

give one tribe the ability to move over the rift

fug · 2019-12-26 14:15:07

ollj wrote:

give one tribe the ability to move over the rift

There's no rift, just a pseudo rift mechanic where everyone has to be near everyone otherwise nothing can actually get done.

Gogo · 2019-12-26 14:37:42

I've got a question

Did Jason, beside the rift, EVER canceled one of his updates? If not, don't expect him to delete his work just because some people don't like it and have some other ideas.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-26 16:31:20

The Come Together Disaster had many of the things it changed reversed or severely nerfed. Things introduced that drastically changed were swords, Eve spawning made 40 tiles apart, and people couldn't curse outside of their lineages (leading to griefer Eves). Additionally, the water system has changed several times. Furthermore, the temperature system has changed several times.

Punkypal · 2019-12-26 18:49:38

I'm sorry Carrot, but your ideas are (mostly) terrible, especially the slaves part.

But I'll offer some counter suggestions that I believe are far superior, and have put a bit more thought into I suspect.

For the races, there should still be specialties, but they should be SOFTENED. By that I mean, each race still has something they can only do in a biome, but it isn't as specific. for instance:

Gingers: Sill needed to set up oil rig, but once set up, anyone can use it. Still the only ones who can fetch saltwater, but should be able to use a special item just for this. A barrel perhaps. Salt water wouldn't be fetched in regular buckets, but the barrel can be brought back to town and then others can draw from it like a cistern to make salt. Gingers still only ones to build snow houses.

Blacks: Wouldn't get hot in desert and only ones who could pick cactus. They could build a hot spring up so others could take from it, but only if they do the development first. This pumping station or whatever would only last 10 to 24 hours. Anyone can capture and tame a horse, but black should have a way to do it significantly faster and easier. Black only ones who can build structures in desert.

Browns: Only ones who can pick banana. Yellow fever should last only half as long if bitten by mosquito. Only browns can get rubber from a wild rubber tree, but Browns should be able to plant rubber trees outside of jungle, and domestic rubber trees can be harvested by anyone. You still need browns to plant them though. Same for mango and the other jungle plants. Anyone can use once the domesticated version is brought back to town and planted. They would be only ones who can build in jungle.

Blondies: Instead of just being translators, they are EXPLORERS and TRADERS. So, to make them less useless could get A FEW of the following abilities in addition to translating. 1) They ride horses faster 2) Snakes never tip a horse cart they are using 3) They can pick up items on the ground from ANY biome, but only things on the ground 4) They can build roads through any biome (but just road, still no buildings) 5) They can take handcarts through any biome without dropping the cart. 6) Their hunger bar drops half as fast when they are on a horse (don't have to stop and eat as often 7) If a Blondie is last to have dismounted a horse, it won't run off wild for up to 60 seconds (this one alone would be HUGE).

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Did I mention being able to force another player to be your slave is a horrible idea?
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As for tool slots, the obvious overhaul is to give a few less tool slots, but not require tool slots for many mundane items. People with low genetic score would maybe start with one less slot, but higher scores should cap out a little lower. Maybe 15 is max, not 19. Another way to do it is everyone would just start with a list of tools they automatically get so they don't use a slot up. Pencil for instance. Also the hatchet (but ax would use a slot). Hot coals should be free, as should shovel, hoe, and mallet. This could also make races more interesting without limiting. Maybe all Gingers learn the smith hammer automatically. Maybe Browns all know knife, etc.

How many tool slots you have used, vs how many left should show somewhere always, and should should be able to click to see a list of what you know.

Another novel idea I've has is that you don't get all of your slots at birth. You should have three that unlock as you age. One unlocks at age 15, another at age 30, and you get one last one at 50. I think this would be a good trade off with having more things that you can learn without using a slot, but still leave the number of tool slots available (during a lifetime) be the same as it is currently. Also, if you realize you accidentally maxed out all your slots early in life, and then it becomes clear something needs to be done with an adz, or a saw, you could just wait a bit until you get a little older (and wiser) and be able to do what needs to be done. As it is now, it's a little lame to realize you have no slots left, and even if you have 30 years of life left, you can't ever, ever, ever figure out that tool. That just doesn't make sense.

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No, seriously. It's so bad of an idea you should punch yourself in the face. Twice actually.
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Trade is not something that's really doable as the game exists. OHOL is really set up to be more like a hippy commune, where they don't recognize the concept of individual property. Everything we have belongs to everyone. I don't see a way for trade in a conventional sense to exist in this game. The only way it could work is if we gained some way for a player to make a little house that they could secure to their account and pass ownership to their next life. That being said, I'll describe how real home ownership could revolutionize the game.

HOMES: Would have to build stone walls and let them go ancient. I'd suggest the size would have to be 3x3 only. Once a 3x3 building has all ancient walls someone could claim it as their home. Only their account would be able to pick up any items in the house. In that way, we can really own things from one life to the next and keep the tools to continue to be the profession we like to play. You could set up a little bakery and people couldn't just come take your pies, they would have to bring you something. Ideally the materials for you to make more food stuff. If a baker could just cook stuff and not have to run all over gathering, you'd see all the rare foods being made. Think of how long a Yum! chain you could have!

It would serve as an anchor too. You would always be born as close to your house as possible. This also would be a reason not to grief if you own a house, because it could mean you are appearing further away from it when born. Yes, it also would mean you can't just stab every person who bothers you because you don't know or approve of what they are doing. Finally I'd say that once you claim a house, that lasts for only 7 days. Once time runs out you can renew it if you are there to claim it again before someone else does. So basically, it wouldn't be guaranteed that you couldn't keep the same house FOREVER, but 7 days is a pretty long timeframe in OHOL, and it would be a vast improvement over now, where at best you can secure things for only one lifetime with fences, but that's mainly being used as a way for griefers to steal shit that people can't get back for a while or to lock up others and let them starve.

Last edited by Punkypal (2019-12-27 03:36:09)

Mekkie · 2019-12-26 22:16:13

I prefer carrot's ideas. The fact that entire towns can die because 1 race isn't nearby is just dumb. Your changes don't fix that at all.

Last edited by Mekkie (2019-12-26 22:16:31)

Toxolotl · 2019-12-26 22:45:23

Simple fix:

- Remove tool slots. Genetic score effects pip bonus and eve spawns only.

- Remove biome restrictions and go back to only one rubber per bucket.

This would make rubber farming a main priority for every family. Keeping it difficult and restraining water production while still enabling the growth of single family towns.

Punkypal · 2019-12-27 03:28:51

Mekkie wrote:

I prefer carrot's ideas. The fact that entire towns can die because 1 race isn't nearby is just dumb. Your changes don't fix that at all.

Towns can die because one guy can easily murder one or two young females when server population is low. I've seen that happen quite a few times. A guy will literally lurk around town chatting and appearing innocuous until he sees a female age up, and then he will stab the fertile female, and before people can figure out what happened he will get the other. If their goal is to kill a town, they usually are crafty and bide their time.

So lets be realistic. Jason isn't going to remove murder from the game ever. It's highly unlikely from what I've seen that he will scrap racial differences entirely. He wants us to be forced to overcome this difficulty he has imposed. If we can't do that then he wants the towns to die.

Do you disagree with that statement?

So, that being what it is, the sensible position to take is that the challenge he has put forth is a bit too much and is having a detrimental effect on the overall fun and play-ability of the game. That maybe less hard of a line between what each race can or can't do would add some fun challenge to the game but without ruining certain aspects entirely.

My suggestions still mean a town needs to be diverse to survive or actively run trade route to other towns to get what they need. The difference is, if they lose all their Gingers, or Browns or whatever, then there should be a buffer time they have to get new ones. It buys a town a little more time to attract replacements. The death of a town won't happen so instantly as it currently does.

So what do you think might happen? Given that Jason has said he doesn't expect or even think towns should last forever, that he will agree with Carrot and you essentially asking him to go back to making it simple for a town to survive "forever" or me asking him to make it just a little less hard?

Last edited by Punkypal (2019-12-27 03:39:00)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-27 07:20:41

Punkypal wrote:

So lets be realistic. Jason isn't going to remove murder from the game ever.

I wouldn't be so sure. He called the 2HOL people bold for removing murder. Also, he wasn't able to kill off a lineage there when he tried to grief them a while back.

Punkypal wrote:

Given that Jason has said he doesn't expect or even think towns should last forever ...

Jason has wondered before why lineages haven't lasted longer, and said that he expected eternal survival of a lineage would be possible when the boundless world 2.0 update came.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-27 07:23:13)

fug · 2019-12-27 07:22:05

Spoonwood wrote:

Punkypal wrote:
So lets be realistic. Jason isn't going to remove murder from the game ever.
I wouldn't be so sure. He called the 2HOL people bold for removing murder. Also, he wasn't able to kill off a lineage there when he tried to grief them a while back.

He isn't removing murder because it's basically needed. However, he has backtracked on very certain updates and if something sucks dicks he should do the same.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-27 07:24:53

fug wrote:

He isn't removing murder because it's basically needed.

Nonsense. Murder isn't needed for anything. The map is huge. Families can work around destructive griefers in a town or migarte. No murder, and griefers can't kill a family on the run.

fug · 2019-12-27 07:27:31

Spoonwood wrote:

fug wrote:
He isn't removing murder because it's basically needed.
Nonsense. Murder isn't needed for anything. The map is huge. Families can work around destructive griefers in a town or migarte. No murder, and griefers can't kill a family on the run.

It's dumb as fuck that you'd leave a whole town (like how everyone fucked off when Jason played 2HOL) instead of just murdering the cuck.

No murder plus blacklists would likely work however, but we know that's not how it'd work because "muh interesting grieffin"

Spoonwood · 2019-12-27 07:56:34

fug wrote:

It's dumb as fuck that you'd leave a whole town (like how everyone fucked off when Jason played 2HOL) instead of just murdering the cuck.

No. Murdering one person often enough gets followed by another murder.

fug wrote:

No murder plus blacklists would likely work however, but we know that's not how it'd work because "muh interesting grieffin"

Fug, Jason wants to sell copies of his game. After all, he put the game on sale in November. He's also aspired to be (alright... though he was... lol) the greatest computer game developer ever. I don't doubt Jason realized that griefers were bad for business when locked in towns occurred during the early Rift period and later. Really, I don't think it unfair to say that at this point in time, OHOL has probably lost hundreds of players due to griefing.

Sure, Jason might find some griefing "interesting" at present. However, I suspect if he does, it's less and less so as he keeps on hearing more reports about how such messes up people's experience, leads to people quitting, OHOL doesn't have enough counter measures against griefing, and other multiplayer games taking a hardline against griefing has worked out for them in the long run.

Mekkie · 2019-12-27 10:47:44

Just another reason I think getting cursed should leave a permanent cumulative mark on your account that would eventually ban you. Wouldn't need murder then... but I agree with fug. Jason likes the drama of griefing and thus will never remove murder. I do however have to commend him for trying with the gang up stuff, but.. it's just not enough.

Sad to say I think the best thing he did for this game was make it open source.. as I've actually logged about 80% of my hours into 2HOL and my own modded private server than I have into his version of the game. I love the core of the game, but I hate the direction it's going.

I mean I get that he wants cooperation between towns and races, but if that were truly the case, then why add the language barrier? If anything it just segregates people more. The other day I was in a dying ginger town, because we had no rubber. It took me 25-30 minutes of my life just to find a brown town, and another 10-15 just to try and communicate what I needed. By time i finally got it, i had no time to make it home and died with the life saving tire in my hand.

"Epic adventure! Drama! That wasn't fun for you?" No. It wasn't. It was nothing but frustrating and I feel like I wasted an hour of my life trying to combat a bullshit mechanic. I haven't logged into official OHOL since.

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#1 2019-12-26 01:54:01

Here's a few ideas that might actually help our game

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Re: Here's a few ideas that might actually help our game

#3 2019-12-26 03:39:03

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#4 2019-12-26 05:05:55

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#5 2019-12-26 05:54:00

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#11 2019-12-26 14:37:42

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