A better idea for Hierarchy system?

NiGB0 · 2019-12-09 22:30:28

What I have read seems like a bad idea, followers etc. I think is going to be a chaos.
We don't need a Monarchy or a feudal system with Dukes, Counts, etc.
The best option is a meritocracy system or "Elective Monarchy were the only elector is the leader".
Eve choose her heir, then her heir choose the best player in the town to be her heir, etc. So, a lot of people will want to be the new heir, but to be that they must work and must do good actions for the town and family.

If a person want to make a new town or colonize an abandoned one, can ask to the leader/king/emperor of the family to be a "conqueror" or something like that, so he will have the same bonuses of the leader of the family, but he must accept orders from the leader. To make a person a "Conqueror" the leader should say "X is a conqueror".

If the leader of the family is a tyrant, a player who is 55 or older can say "Our leader has to be overthrown", then everyone can say "I agree". To say "I agree" you must be 14 years old or older.
If the person who says "Our leader has to be overthrown" is far away from his relatives, a box will be displayed on his relatives screen saying "A person is saying that the leader has to be overthrown", then his relatives can choose to say "I agree" or to keep playing with a tyrant.
If half of the family +1 member agrees the leader will be overthrown and his heir will be the new leader.

If the leader dies without choosing a heir, his closest relative will be the new leader.

The bonuses of the leader of the family will be: -He can be killed only if he is overthrown.
-If the leader is a woman will have fertility bonus, if the leader is a man
his sisters or closest female relatives will have fertility bonus, if she/he is
overthrown the fertility bonus will dissapear.
-He can mark bad players.
-Saying "! text" a box with his text will be displayed on the screen of all
his relatives.
All bonuses dissapear after being overthrown.

This system will work very well because only good players will be the leaders of the family.
Eve will choose her best child/grandchild/greatgrandchild, then her heir will choose another good player, then this will happen again and again until the lineage end.

NiGB0 · 2019-12-09 22:31:32

Sorry for my bad english...

DestinyCall · 2019-12-09 22:36:38

I think the fertility bonus is unnecessary and potentially distracting. If you are the leader, you have more important things to focus on than being an unstoppable baby factory. The broad-casted speech is good. Marking players as "bad" is potentially useful. I'd suggest being able to mark people as "exiled". If a player has been exiled by his family leader, this is immediately visible to other players in some way. Also, I think it should revoke property rights. You are no longer welcome in the village.

Being kill-proof would be too OP. If you want to make the leader harder to assassinate, I think it would be reasonable to give him a longer "bleed out" time so he is easier to save. But making him un-killable is simply too much.

Kinrany · 2019-12-09 22:36:45

Do people from other families see the bad player marks?

Last edited by Kinrany (2019-12-09 22:37:40)

DestinyCall · 2019-12-09 23:30:32

I think they should. Only your own family leader can banish you, but all players can see that you were banished.

It would be useful if you were living in a multi-family village. And it also marks exiled players, so if they run away from their home village after being exiled, a new village will think twice before taking them in. It would make exile more serious, since it tells EVERYONE that you were a bad boy.

Of course, it is up to the individual player to decide if they will give an exiled player the chance to prove themselves. Maybe they were exiled by a bad ruler or because of a misunderstanding. Or maybe they were a horrible serial killer and you better not leave them alone with your kids.

NiGB0 · 2019-12-10 04:38:02

Kinrany wrote:

Do people from other families see the bad player marks?

Yes, if your leader mark you all people will see that you were marked.

Gogo · 2019-12-10 04:59:10

A leader can't be aware of everything and everyone. We should form groups and have initations into that groups. Which means if we reach like 7 year old our mom can invite us into 'tribal group'. Which means she must be aware what her kid behaves from birth to that age, is he/she good or bad. People in groups - trustworthy. Without - exiles, griefers. Give a bonus to a group or/and some disadvantage to exiles.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-12-10 05:57:59

From everything I've read this whole thing just sounds bad. Why should I join in on this stupid RP when I only get punished for it?

I can't wait to get stabbed for not playing along.

Last edited by DiscardedSlinky (2019-12-10 05:58:39)

Keyin · 2019-12-10 06:47:20

This sounds worse than the hierarchy suggested in the other thread for multiple reasons

1) Power in the hands of one person- all it takes to become leader is kiss up to current leader to become heir
2) Only one layer of power- either you're in charge or your at the bottom, essentially creating a dictator
3)Limited to one per family and family exclusive- Ideally I think hierarchical structures should be able to include multiple families, and a large family could have multiple hierarchies completely separate from one another.

I think that the other system is better because

1)power is in the hands of each individual(you choose who you serve, they have to get your 'vote')
2)the system naturally puts people at the top with seniority and perceived merit(meaning, a tyrant is short lived and usually an old person whom the most people chose to follow will be in charge)
3) allows for multiple different hierarchies to form, split apart, merge together.
4)forms multiple layers instead of just 2/3(king, conqueror, peasant) - The other thread used titles of King, Duke, etc but I think names should be different. Essentially you have a chief at the top, below them are the elderly councilor(s), and below them are the young adults, and finally the children.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-10 08:22:13

Keyin wrote:

1)power is in the hands of each individual(you choose who you serve, they have to get your 'vote')

No, it's not and you don't choose who you serve. At least not from my read. Jason said the following:

jasonrohrer wrote:

In terms of bootstrapping, or people forgetting to use this feature, these relationships could be inherited. If your mother follows Bob, you follow him too by default.

Jason first says 'could', but then it's by default in the sentence, suggesting that he probably decided then to force the relationships by default.

Jason says this in the next sentence:

jasonrohrer wrote:

You can switch your leader later, by following someone else.

But, you have to get there. You would have to have the ability to spell out certain words. You won't be getting out such a forced relationship by 3 or 4, and by then you could easily have gotten exiled for something you tried to do which got misunderstood or got nitpicked at by the leader, and then you're deserving of death.

Keyin wrote:

the system naturally puts people at the top with seniority and perceived merit(meaning, a tyrant is short lived and usually an old person whom the most people chose to follow will be in charge)

Enough people won't have a read on who has merit. Gatherers out of town, some people not knowing anything about this new system, someone trying to do an oil rig out of town, someone trying to trade with another family, and probably more. The people who probably could best judge merit, probably won't have the time to make such an evaluation meaningfully.

All these hierarchy ideas don't take into account griefers enough, nor take into account that power corrupts.

Kinrany · 2019-12-10 17:03:32

What happens when a family gets split?

NiGB0 · 2019-12-11 04:36:31

Kinrany wrote:

What happens when a family gets split?

When the family gets split, the "conqueror" of the new town will have the same bonuses of the leader of the family, and he should choose a heir too, but he must accept all orders from the leader of the family.

Kinrany · 2019-12-11 10:46:45

What if there's no conqueror? For example, it's common enough for Eve babies to run away and start their own villages.

Gogo · 2019-12-11 12:19:00

I got idea about choosing a good heir.

Start attacking people with knife and the one that will be the first to give you gasp, to stop you, is the person that is proper to dealing with griefers, which means to be the leader.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-12-11 12:19:38)

NiGB0 · 2019-12-11 15:53:08

Kinrany wrote:

What if there's no conqueror? For example, it's common enough for Eve babies to run away and start their own villages.

I think the solution to that problem is that after 2 generations that are far away from the main branch of the family, a random baby-conqueror will appear.

Gogo · 2019-12-11 16:56:24

I was skeptical, because feudalism would be too complex, but a single leader will be an interesting add. It's easy to choose a good, caring player to pass the leadership (not neccesarily son/daughter). Also to someone who is fast enough.

I was thinking about armour - it takes 2 stabbs to kill the leader. If the leader is overthrowned the armour will falls from him/her (Jason can do such things? ). Armour can be worn only by leaders, so everyone can spot them easily and crown isn't neccesity.

A leader can grant citizenship for useful foreigners, that will gives them some bonus.

Anyways, rather than stop killing ideas etc. we need bonuses for good players and a leader should reward best villagers and mark the bad ones.

DestinyCall wrote:

I think the fertility bonus is unnecessary and potentially distracting.

Totally agree.

Another idea - a leader could grant titles, but not that royal ones.

Markus is chef.
Abby is smith.

This way people would know who get the right slots.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-12-11 17:09:28)

MCzerotacos · 2019-12-11 17:13:18

NiGB0 wrote:

What I have read seems like a bad idea, followers etc. I think is going to be a chaos.
We don't need a Monarchy or a feudal system with Dukes, Counts, etc.
The best option is a meritocracy system or "Elective Monarchy were the only elector is the leader".
Eve choose her heir, then her heir choose the best player in the town to be her heir, etc. So, a lot of people will want to be the new heir, but to be that they must work and must do good actions for the town and family.
If a person want to make a new town or colonize an abandoned one, can ask to the leader/king/emperor of the family to be a "conqueror" or something like that, so he will have the same bonuses of the leader of the family, but he must accept orders from the leader. To make a person a "Conqueror" the leader should say "X is a conqueror".
If the leader of the family is a tyrant, a player who is 55 or older can say "Our leader has to be overthrown", then everyone can say "I agree". To say "I agree" you must be 14 years old or older.
If the person who says "Our leader has to be overthrown" is far away from his relatives, a box will be displayed on his relatives screen saying "A person is saying that the leader has to be overthrown", then his relatives can choose to say "I agree" or to keep playing with a tyrant.
If half of the family +1 member agrees the leader will be overthrown and his heir will be the new leader.
If the leader dies without choosing a heir, his closest relative will be the new leader.
The bonuses of the leader of the family will be: -He can be killed only if he is overthrown.
-If the leader is a woman will have fertility bonus, if the leader is a man
his sisters or closest female relatives will have fertility bonus, if she/he is
overthrown the fertility bonus will dissapear.
-He can mark bad players.
-Saying "! text" a box with his text will be displayed on the screen of all
his relatives.
All bonuses dissapear after being overthrown.
This system will work very well because only good players will be the leaders of the family.
Eve will choose her best child/grandchild/greatgrandchild, then her heir will choose another good player, then this will happen again and again until the lineage end.

I like that you want to have some type of family lineage passing of "crown" or something like that and that would make them a leader, but this is literally just a way in which if it falls into the wrong hands then everyone is screwed.

1) Can only be killed if he is overthrown
- very bad idea b/c, to be over thrown u need half of family lineage +1 to agree and in order for that to happen you want a global text speech that says,
"Our leader has to be overthrown". This is just unfathomable! I agree that their should be some implications on how to remove a leader but a
global text speech is ridiculous.

2) If the leader is a woman will have fertility bonus, if the leader is a man his sisters or closest female relatives will have fertility bonus, if she/he is
overthrown the fertility bonus will dissapear.
- People have already stated this but I will just say it again. A fertlity bonus would is not the way to go. I think bonuses for having a family crown
shouldn't even be a thing. (If someone can come up with a great bonus that doesnt just benefit one family but everyone then that would be great
because, shouldnt the job of a leader be to help everyone?)

3) He/she can mark "bad" player
- Marking a player as "bad" is just a way greifers can just exploit the system. Also the word bad is relative to what everyone is doing or wants. If there is
a family cult and they are trying to kill everyone but one person doesnt want to join, the person that doesn't want to join can be called "bad".

These are just some flaws in your theory among many others. If you would really like to have a system that allows for leadership maybe choose a government like a driect democracy. Since a direct demcracy really works well in small population it would be very beneficial in 1Hr1Life. With a direct democracy as well, everyone has an equal chance at becoming the leader so it can (but may not) decrease the possibility of greediness from players.

Last edited by MCzerotacos (2019-12-11 17:22:00)

DestinyCall · 2019-12-11 17:32:32

So now I'm curious ... how would direct democracy work in OHOL?

MCzerotacos · 2019-12-11 17:37:08

DestinyCall wrote:

So now I'm curious ... how would direct democracy work in OHOL?

Well I am not to knowledgable about how a direct democracy works, but what I do know is that it is a lot more balanced than an inherited "crown". if you are asking for examples, Switzerland has a government which utilizes a direct democracy. Also, the ancient city state of athens was a direct democracy as well. I would assume that a direct democracy is similar to the US government, but with a much more hands on approach.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-11 18:17:32

I'm aware of what a direct democracy is and how it differs from a representative democracy. My question is more about how you would see such a system working in OHOL. It is not good enough to simply say that democracy is better than monarchy as a system of governance.

We need to have the means to make a functional direct democracy in the game. Otherwise, it is all just theory and not practical. Like people who want capitalism and trade in OHOL, but we have hippie communes because they are more efficient and functional.

I don't see how direct democracy would be practical. It takes too much time to debate and reach consensus on important topics.

Kinrany · 2019-12-11 18:28:20

With a democracy you'd probably need a way to keep track of laws. That, or wait for everyone to vote whenever someone is being exiled, or whatever.

Direct democracy doesn't work well because everyone has to spend time thinking about every issue. That's a gigantic waste of effort.

MCzerotacos · 2019-12-11 19:07:01

Maybe just no government at all? Either way people with power no matter what you say you are will eventually abuse it and with the right influencers you cant be overthrown.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-11 21:27:49

The lack of a governing body is anarchy. The is the natural state of most OHOL villages. No laws, no government, no leader. Perfect autonomy and no accountability.

As long as everyone knows what they are doing, it works great. But if you have a lot of new people, the system collapses pretty fast, due to lack of coherent direction.

Personally, I'm not convinced that any form of government is necessarily better than anarchy, especially in a small village. But a single GOOD leader is, theoretically, better than no leader. A bad leader might be worse. And too many leaders tend to create inefficiency and waste too much time, good or bad.

Ideally, whatever method is used should provide real value to the village by reducing waste, coordinating large projects, and helping people work together more effectively. If forming and managing the government and laws would take too much time and manpower, it is unlikely to be worth your time to setup or maintain a working government. Right now, we don't really have the necessary tools to facilitate most traditional forms of government. Communicating ideas just takes way too long and it is too difficult to create and enforce customs or laws.

jcwilk · 2019-12-11 21:37:11

DestinyCall wrote:

The lack of a governing body is anarchy. The is the natural state of most OHOL villages. No laws, no government, no leader. Perfect autonomy and no accountability.
As long as everyone knows what they are doing, it works great. But if you have a lot of new people, the system collapses pretty fast, due to lack of coherent direction.
Personally, I'm not convinced that any form of government is necessarily better than anarchy, especially in a small village. But a single GOOD leader is, theoretically, better than no leader. A bad leader might be worse. And too many leaders tend to create inefficiency and waste too much time, good or bad.
Ideally, whatever method is used should provide real value to the village by reducing waste, coordinating large projects, and helping people work together more effectively. If forming and managing the government and laws would take too much time and manpower, it is unlikely to be worth your time to setup or maintain a working government. Right now, we don't really have the necessary tools to facilitate most traditional forms of government. Communicating ideas just takes way too long and it is too difficult to create and enforce customs or laws.

A bad leader could be better than no leader though... Depends on your metric. Like a leader who is obsessed with building buildings and doesn't give a shit about producing food would be kind of an idiot and not looking out for the village, but it may very well be a better story than everyone quietly and efficiently doing tasks they've done 50 times before in 50 other villages.

Or maybe a leader who stages public executions of lollygaggers, not optimal at all but certainly memorable.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-11 21:53:33

I'd argue that those kind of leaders are only fun if they are rare. If all your leaders are total idiots, incompetency stops being amusing for me pretty darn fast.

I'm more interested in a working village, rather than a string of "crazy" adventures. Those experiences are best when they develop naturally without being forced or encouraged by bad mechanics.

I want a leader who is able to put the fun in functional. Not a petty tyrant or complete moron.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-12-09 22:30:28

A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#2 2019-12-09 22:31:32

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#3 2019-12-09 22:36:38

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#4 2019-12-09 22:36:45

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#5 2019-12-09 23:30:32

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#6 2019-12-10 04:38:02

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#7 2019-12-10 04:59:10

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#8 2019-12-10 05:57:59

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#9 2019-12-10 06:47:20

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#10 2019-12-10 08:22:13

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#11 2019-12-10 17:03:32

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#12 2019-12-11 04:36:31

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#13 2019-12-11 10:46:45

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#14 2019-12-11 12:19:00

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#15 2019-12-11 15:53:08

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#16 2019-12-11 16:56:24

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#17 2019-12-11 17:13:18

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#18 2019-12-11 17:32:32

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#19 2019-12-11 17:37:08

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#20 2019-12-11 18:17:32

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#21 2019-12-11 18:28:20

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#22 2019-12-11 19:07:01

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#23 2019-12-11 21:27:49

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#24 2019-12-11 21:37:11

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

#25 2019-12-11 21:53:33

Re: A better idea for Hierarchy system?

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