Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

DarkDrak · 2019-12-09 14:02:11

sigmen4020 wrote:

DarkDrak wrote:
Also2, 2HOL is a pretty irrelevant example of working no-killing meccanics. If you greif there, you get a ban and it's over for good. With that kind of system, ofc there's no need for killings or curses.
Has something changed with 2HOL? Last time I played it I was killed by a griefer.

Wait, really? I havent played it in like forever. Perhaps im confusing it with ccm. My bad.

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-09 14:17:27

DarkDrak wrote:

sigmen4020 wrote:
DarkDrak wrote:
Also2, 2HOL is a pretty irrelevant example of working no-killing meccanics. If you greif there, you get a ban and it's over for good. With that kind of system, ofc there's no need for killings or curses.
Has something changed with 2HOL? Last time I played it I was killed by a griefer.

Wait, really? I havent played it in like forever. Perhaps im confusing it with ccm. My bad.

Yep, it's one of the more annoying memories I had from playing 2HOL so it stuck. I spent a while exploring trying to find a town and I found a town I'd been in numerous times before. As soon as I arrived I noticed this old hag standing in the middle of town and then she fricking stabs me.

I had kids but there were no sterile tools they could use to heal me. But if things are still how they were when I last played 2HOL you can pretty much expect to never find what you need in the towns.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-12-09 14:19:39)

Greenwood · 2019-12-09 15:00:07

Murder is not the cause of griefing. Maybe once it did more harm than good, but as this game has developed the use of weapons has become heavily weighted to benefit the town rather than the lone wolf. From posses to the *gasp expression* when you're targetted, it has gotten to the point where griefing via murder is relatively easy to combat. It is also the most efficient way for a town to defeat a griefer. If somebody is griefing your town, you could become a nomad and wait for them to die naturally before returning to pick of the pieces, or perhaps you could get all the town to curse one person and prevent that specific griefer from coming back for a while, but these solutions are rarely utilised because they have a low success rate, a high cost, and require support of the entire town to succeed. Whereas if you and your brother Tim decide to deal with the griefer in town, you can do so relatively quickly before the settlement is damaged too badly. The existence of medicine means that mistakes can be made and fixed. What's more, killing has provided many an interesting life story. The majority of griefing that players complain about is not as a result of killing, but rather due to more subtle methods which can paralyse a town. If killing was disabled, then players would be almost defenceless against a determined, skilled griefer, as well as making lives more monotone by taking away all those sweet roleplay opportunities. Removing killing would aid the griefers more than hinder them.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-09 17:01:30

Greenwood wrote:

Murder is not the cause of griefing. Maybe once it did more harm than good, but as this game has developed the use of weapons has become heavily weighted to benefit the town rather than the lone wolf. From posses to the *gasp expression* when you're targetted, it has gotten to the point where griefing via murder is relatively easy to combat. It is also the most efficient way for a town to defeat a griefer. If somebody is griefing your town, you could become a nomad and wait for them to die naturally before returning to pick of the pieces, or perhaps you could get all the town to curse one person and prevent that specific griefer from coming back for a while, but these solutions are rarely utilised because they have a low success rate, a high cost, and require support of the entire town to succeed. Whereas if you and your brother Tim decide to deal with the griefer in town, you can do so relatively quickly before the settlement is damaged too badly. The existence of medicine means that mistakes can be made and fixed. What's more, killing has provided many an interesting life story. The majority of griefing that players complain about is not as a result of killing, but rather due to more subtle methods which can paralyse a town. If killing was disabled, then players would be almost defenceless against a determined, skilled griefer, as well as making lives more monotone by taking away all those sweet roleplay opportunities. Removing killing would aid the griefers more than hinder them.

It seems to me that your argument amounts to saying that griefers could more easily destroy towns or hinder their development.

But, that is different than griefers destroying lineages.

This thread seems like it contains a lot of evidence that players will pick towns over lineages easily if they have to pick one.

Bremidon · 2019-12-09 17:20:58

Spoonwood, what people are trying to tell you is that

the "kill" griefing is not really that big of a problem right now
other types of griefing *are* a problem and more likely to destroy both towns and lineages
being able to kill the griefer is a workable solution right now, as long as a town has a few decent players who aren't just sitting around

You can continue to have your opinion on this, but you would probably make a lot of friends here and earn some more respect if you could acknowledge that these points are pretty strong and difficult to argue against. Again, your opinion is absolutely valid, but at least as I see it, your viewpoint is not going to carry the day here.

Wuatduhf · 2019-12-09 17:55:57

Strong objection.

I've seen it all.

Idiots standing around as a griefer slowly murders people one by one.

Idiots standing around as a griefer, revenge-stabbed, gets healed, while the avenger gets stabbed themselves and dies.

An entire town forming a posse to run a thousand tiles to chase down a griefer stealing the town's Kerosene supplies.

An entire town watching as the town Doc patches up a victim, before all of them (~12) stab the attempted griefer and watch them bleed out.

An entire town devolving into chaos because inter-family grief causes a back-and-forth stabfest, until both sides die out.

Murder is a necessary part of the OHOL experience. Not having it would be a severe detriment to, yes, the storylines, even if you want to joke that they aren't relevant. Knowing that people can, at any time, try to kill each other, but willingly choose not to, is a gameplay element in and of itself.

Last edited by Wuatduhf (2019-12-09 17:56:46)

Elsayal · 2019-12-09 18:24:44

Even if no grieffer was playing this game, killing stay an interesting feature to create stories and feelings.

Gogo · 2019-12-09 18:42:47

Today I was making oil pump, but my brother start a race war, I watched as town turned into slaughter and he was stabbed, so I gave up getting kerosene for those idiots, they kill me in the end. Next I was born in ginger village near to that town, my mom told me I am a war leader, so we ran like 4 people and take over that town. It was exciting, you wanna get rid of excitement in this game? Only griefers would have some fun then? I'm gonna be griefed, stabbed, so what, next time I win.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-12-09 18:43:32)

jcwilk · 2019-12-09 18:47:46

Gogo wrote:

Today I was making oil pump, but my brother start a race war, I watched as town turned into slaughter and he was stabbed, so I gave up getting kerosene for those idiots, they kill me in the end. Next I was born in ginger village near to that town, my mom told me I am a war leader, so we ran like 4 people and take over that town. It was exciting, you wanna get rid of excitement in this game? Only griefers would have some fun then? I'm gonna be griefed, stabbed, so what, next time I win.

One of the better chunks of text for sharing to someone without establishing OHOL context first.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-09 19:40:42

Bremidon wrote:

You can continue to have your opinion on this, but you would probably make a lot of friends here and earn some more respect if you could acknowledge that these points are pretty strong and difficult to argue against.

Lineages die out from murderous griefers. If murder didn't exist, then those lineages would not die out for that reason. Migration is possible as a means of survival. That suggests it less likely that lineages would die out sooner if murder were removed. Where is the evidence that lineages would die out sooner if murder didn't exist? Jason thought he had found such evidence when tried to grief a town in 2HOL a while back, but he also said that the people had migrated. If that was the characters (not just the humans behind the characters) who had migrated, that's actually evidence of lineages having the ability to survive *longer* without murder in an OHOL like context. Again, where is the evidence that lineages would die out sooner if murder ceased to exist and families were more willing to migrate?

Spoonwood · 2019-12-09 19:43:58

Wuatduhf wrote:

I've seen it all. ...

It's no surprise to hear your viewpoint Wuatduhf, since you've wanted batons and were the person behind Michael Punch. But, you didn't have a single word about players trying to grief towns via non-murderous means or what effects that would or might have on lineages.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-09 19:46:36

Gogo wrote:

Today I was making oil pump, but my brother start a race war, I watched as town turned into slaughter and he was stabbed, so I gave up getting kerosene for those idiots, they kill me in the end. Next I was born in ginger village near to that town, my mom told me I am a war leader, so we ran like 4 people and take over that town. It was exciting, you wanna get rid of excitement in this game? Only griefers would have some fun then? I'm gonna be griefed, stabbed, so what, next time I win.

A multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building that was not. In fact, it sounds like you were starting off as a civilization builder making an oil pump. Then you got hypnotized into playing some sort of twisted and useless war game that people who like to see others suffer want people like you to play with them.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-10 01:48:51

I object.

Not enough of the veteran playerbase has enough openness to migrating or enough desire to play for their lineages over playing for towns (that's my guess). Because of that, such griefing would be more consequential to new players. If I am right about the veteran playerbase, that doesn't make the idea flawed in theory, but would make it doomed in practice. But, the issue here is the attitude of the majority of the veteran playerbase, which doesn't doom the concept were a different veteran playerbase with a different attitude to come into existence.

Gogo · 2019-12-10 02:51:25

Spoonwood wrote:

A multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building that was not.

From my moms perspective she suceed greatly in parenting, telling me what to do and went to fight with us for victory.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-10 03:36:52

Gogo wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
A multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building that was not.
From my moms perspective she suceed greatly in parenting, telling me what to do and went to fight with us for victory.

And you think your mom made a choice which was more likely to result in you and your lineage's survival than if you had tried to develop a camp to its fullest potential? Caring for offspring doesn't involve putting your children in danger for the fun of it.

Gogo · 2019-12-10 04:29:25

That's her choice, everybody has their own ways for parenting. I end my life in first village, passing map to nearly finished pump I mentioned to some girl (we left kids there), later I found that map in the raided town. If I didn't see fun in killing, dealing with griefers, I wouldn't be playing this game, it takes too much time beside building.

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-12-09 14:02:11

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#27 2019-12-09 14:17:27

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#28 2019-12-09 15:00:07

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#29 2019-12-09 17:01:30

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#30 2019-12-09 17:20:58

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#31 2019-12-09 17:55:57

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#32 2019-12-09 18:24:44

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#33 2019-12-09 18:42:47

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#34 2019-12-09 18:47:46

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#35 2019-12-09 19:40:42

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#36 2019-12-09 19:43:58

Re: Objections To Ending Killing in OHOL?

#37 2019-12-09 19:46:36

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#38 2019-12-10 01:48:51

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#39 2019-12-10 02:51:25

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