Auto-orient on ancient walls.

arkajalka · 2019-11-28 14:01:03

So some noob tore down part of my wall when they went ancient and now i have to look at this thrash every time i work in my house.
autoorientthrash

Auto-orient is thrash REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-28 14:13:47

Yes, auto-orienting is a trash. Nobody seen it as a problem to use a stone a couple times more on stakes to orient walls. Yet Jason thought it was a problem...
Dammit Jason, what's wrong with you?

He's on vacation now, he won't see this thread.

voy178 · 2019-11-28 15:37:01

The only thing that would need it is fences.

arkajalka · 2019-11-28 15:55:04

well get your hate in here, imma bump this up when he back XD

Screenshots of auto orient being total thrash would be sweet.

MrsDuckGirl · 2019-11-28 20:14:17

I plus-one. No more pretty buildings with a mix of straight and corner walls, waste of time thinking how to set your stakes.

voy178 wrote:

The only thing that would need it is fences.

I hope you mean propriety fences ! Because it's trash for wood fences too.
Before the update, my horse was tied where the red arrow points to, it was an EW fence :

When I took back the horse back, it turned to NS and the one above turned to corner. That's not as pretty but above all it's not as convenient.

Also lately in some town with a guy, we fixed the sheep pen, adding a row above the one already existing. Both rows turned into corners, and when we removed the lower row, the top row remained a line of corners. Fortunately he figured out hitting fences with mallet would turn them back into EW fences. But that is annoying because it demands more time and a tool slot to use the mallet.

arkajalka · 2019-11-29 04:09:59

There was a suggestion when this whole auto-orient stuff was discussed about of making auto-orient stakes out of yew branch. That would solve this whole problem. So make the auto-orient yew stackes happen pls. Its really not that hard to just hit the stackes few times more for desired shape. If you cant do that then use ez stackes.

I myself love to build and the overall look you can get with mixing in few diamonds in between makes a big difference on how the building will look. Having no control on how the walls will orient is narrowing house desing by a ton. I hate the generic houses that are build everywhere and now with auto-orient im forced to invent new wayes of making the building look more unique. One big problem is trying to do dividers inside of rooms with diamond in the end. It's just not possible with AO. Also putting a fence for a horse infront of your house is now impossible(if you dont leave a space) as the fence will auto-orient to the house and go vertical.

fug · 2019-11-29 21:37:02

Also there's issues with snow buildings because of auto-orient. You can't make doors on the N/S walls which means you either have to make a fully vertical building (ugly as sin) or import pine/wood doors so you can walk through your buildings. FeelsBadMan

Spoonwood · 2019-11-29 21:57:25

fug wrote:

Also there's issues with snow buildings because of auto-orient. You can't make doors on the N/S walls which means you either have to make a fully vertical building (ugly as sin) or import pine/wood doors so you can walk through your buildings. FeelsBadMan

I don't agree with the following, but I'll put it here anyways:

jasonrohrer wrote:

And in terms of my vision for the game, or why players would use buildings or clothing---this isn't Minecraft Creative Mode, folks. I'm not trying to make a game where you build stuff "just for fun" or "because it looks cool." I'm trying to make a game where you build stuff because you have to---because your survival depends on it, and because it's optimal. The walls in this game have always had R-values. There has always been a thermal propagation model (it was one of the first things that I coded on the server, four years ago). Walls were supposed to be functional. That's why you'd want to build them.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … d=5304&p=3

Your experience and the issues you raise fug are another reason why Jason's "vision" is narrow and rather poor. To me it almost seems like Jason has a problem with players being more creative than him.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-29 21:58:44)

arkajalka · 2019-11-30 07:44:07

well the walls not auto-orienting serve more on the aspect of it being "harsh", i mean isn't building without auto-orienting supposed to be "harder"...

Building is now just "easier" with occasional ugly missmatch results. The diamonds also serve another purpose for me ingame. I hide items that i dont want people to interact behind em, like lets say bearkill set, rising bread, separating milk and special ingredients/items.

voy178 · 2019-11-30 09:31:46

New idea, hitting them with a tool (whatever we agree on) will reset the wall and make them re-orient themselves. That is if making a wall recalculate whenever a change is made is taxing on the game performance.

arkajalka · 2019-12-05 19:56:33

bump REEEE

jasonrohrer · 2019-12-05 21:36:43

Ancient walls do not auto-orient. That is on purpose, because they are ancient. You have to kinda build around them, where they are.

This does make for some ugly hybrid buildings, but that's okay, because that's what hybrid buildings look like in real life. There's an old wall here, and we built around it.

As for the reason auto-orient was put in place, it's because many players couldn't be bothered to orient their walls properly. In terms of gameplay, non-oriented walls are just as functional as oriented walls, and poorly oriented walls were all over the place in the game.

It was hurting my eyes.

But also, in general, if something CAN be automated by the computer, it should be. Why ask you to sit there and click 4 times when it's obvious that this should be a corner wall?

Lots of other games have auto-orienting walls, roads, etc.

I knew that auto-orientation would curtail some intentional creative uses of walls, which is sad. But most of the time, was I was seeing was walls that didn't connect visually by accident.

You do have full control over walls that are free-standing and not touching other walls.

jasonrohrer · 2019-12-05 21:40:26

Oh, and new walls SHOULD auto-orient themselves relative to ancient walls. I'll make sure that's not a bug.

Just checked, and that's working correctly.

So if you find some ancient walls, and build new walls to "add on" to the ancient walls, or repair a gap, your new walls will auto-orient correctly relative to the ancient walls.

Not sure what's going on in the OP's screen shot. The entire structure looks ancient, so I'm not sure how that gaff was possible. It should have auto-oriented at the time of construction.... oh, unless... the horizontal part went ancient, and then the vertical part was built later. That will leave a gap.

eajorstad · 2019-12-05 21:45:08

jasonrohrer wrote:

Oh, and new walls SHOULD auto-orient themselves relative to ancient walls. I'll make sure that's not a bug.

Is there a way we could have two types of stakes, one for auto orient, one for manual? Maybe using those not-straight branches that only get used for kindling? This way builders don't have to worry about a wall auto orienting if they are specifically trying to build it one way and not having it get messed up?

jasonrohrer · 2019-12-05 21:50:22

It is possible, but it's a LOT of work on my end, and would result in a bunch of duplicate and error-prone content. It's the way the auto-orientation is implemented... it's tagged per object (so a wall is marked to auto-orient, not the stakes).

It might seem obvious to make the stakes auto-orient instead of the walls, but that would prevent existing walls from reacting to new constructions.

So if you build a horizontal wall, all the stakes you place would be horizontal.

Then you build a vertical wall. All the stakes you build would be vertical. But when you place the stakes to join the two walls, the stakes would auto-orient, but the existing part of the horizontal wall would be stuck, and wouldn't become a corner wall.

Unless there were two copies of every wall (one that auto-orients and another that doesn't). There are already 12 wall objects (3 orientations of 4 types), and more coming in the future. There are also loads of transitions that hook all these together.

Most building games have auto-orientation. The fact that it wasn't present in this game for a long time was an implementation flaw.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-05 21:58:53

Alternative selection - can you allow builders to interact with the finished wall to change its configuration if we do not like the default orientation?

This would fix the major issue that people have with ugly auto-orientation artifacts and general weirdness by giving us the power to fix them on a case-by-case basis. And it lets people design a variety of unique structures by putting extra effort into it, while allowing basic building efforts to gain the full benefit of auto-orientation.

For example - striking the wall with a round stone, froe, or pickaxe, depending on wall type, would cycle through available wall shapes. Repairing accidental or malicious changes would be easy enough.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-12-05 22:01:21)

Twisted · 2019-12-05 22:13:44

jasonrohrer wrote:

As for the reason auto-orient was put in place, it's because many players couldn't be bothered to orient their walls properly. In terms of gameplay, non-oriented walls are just as functional as oriented walls, and poorly oriented walls were all over the place in the game.

They were orienting their walls properly - many players prefer using East-West walls for all sides as they seem fuller and more robust. I doubt there's anyone who's building walls, which are/have been mostly a thing you make just for the looks, who will spend time building a wall but not invest one extra click to make them North-South. Personally I prefer using NS walls where appropriate, but I don't think that people who use EW everywhere are 'wrong'.

fug · 2019-12-05 22:14:51

Also would be nice if you aren't going to fix auto-orient to at least address some of the issues.

For example:

-Can't stand on a N/S door and close it. However, a west-east door can be stood on and closed/opened.

-Arctic buildings don't have E/W variants which means you have to either import doors or make really weird building styles so the doors work.

-Only E/W fences can hold horses which is sort of annoying as any other fence style is only aesthetic vs the usefulness of E/W.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-05 23:23:36

Twisted wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
As for the reason auto-orient was put in place, it's because many players couldn't be bothered to orient their walls properly. In terms of gameplay, non-oriented walls are just as functional as oriented walls, and poorly oriented walls were all over the place in the game.

They were orienting their walls properly - many players prefer using East-West walls for all sides as they seem fuller and more robust. I doubt there's anyone who's building walls, which are/have been mostly a thing you make just for the looks, who will spend time building a wall but not invest one extra click to make them North-South. Personally I prefer using NS walls where appropriate, but I don't think that people who use EW everywhere are 'wrong'.

Though I haven't enumerated all fully floored buildings that heat characters and compared them to artistic buildings, I don't disagree that most walls have gotten built for non-functional purposes.

But...

jasonrohrer wrote:

And in terms of my vision for the game, or why players would use buildings or clothing---this isn't Minecraft Creative Mode, folks. I'm not trying to make a game where you build stuff "just for fun" or "because it looks cool." I'm trying to make a game where you build stuff because you have to---because your survival depends on it, and because it's optimal. The walls in this game have always had R-values. There has always been a thermal propagation model (it was one of the first things that I coded on the server, four years ago). Walls were supposed to be functional. That's why you'd want to build them.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … d=5304&p=3

Kind of strange to me that it's like we're not supposed to have museums or sports stadiums though.

MrsDuckGirl · 2019-12-06 10:27:05

jasonrohrer wrote:

As for the reason auto-orient was put in place, it's because many players couldn't be bothered to orient their walls properly. In terms of gameplay, non-oriented walls are just as functional as oriented walls, and poorly oriented walls were all over the place in the game.

I guess you mean EW wall shelves that we used to see. People would build them NS if they existed, because it's a convenient storage.

jasonrohrer wrote:

But also, in general, if something CAN be automated by the computer, it should be.

Then how about filling a bowl of berries in clicking the bush with an empty bowl ? I prefer hit stakes two or three times to choose the shape I really want than clicking bush-bowl-bush-bowl indefinitely for everything and anything (pies, clothes, compost, rabbits...).

jasonrohrer wrote:

You do have full control over walls that are free-standing and not touching other walls.

but

jasonrohrer wrote:

Walls were supposed to be functional.

How a free-standing wall is functionnal ?
Also, walls are functionnal for a 6x6 or 7x7 room, but a room of this size isn't functionnal. It's way too small for a kitchen that is supposed to feed a whole village. Even in playing alone it's too small.

A little video about what I said in my previous post, about removing fences, ending with me not being able to place a fence close to a building.
https://youtu.be/gsFjnlDAJJY

fug · 2019-12-17 08:10:48

Found out I can put my doors whichever way I want in the snow but this looks 10x worse than when I used to just make buildings into all east-west style walls + doors.

New snow door type please, this shit hurts my eyes.

Gogo · 2019-12-17 14:22:07

No entry for fat people.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-11-28 14:01:03

Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#2 2019-11-28 14:13:47

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#3 2019-11-28 15:37:01

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#4 2019-11-28 15:55:04

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#5 2019-11-28 20:14:17

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#6 2019-11-29 04:09:59

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#7 2019-11-29 21:37:02

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#8 2019-11-29 21:57:25

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#9 2019-11-30 07:44:07

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#10 2019-11-30 09:31:46

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#11 2019-12-05 19:56:33

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#12 2019-12-05 21:36:43

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#13 2019-12-05 21:40:26

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#14 2019-12-05 21:45:08

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#15 2019-12-05 21:50:22

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#16 2019-12-05 21:58:53

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#17 2019-12-05 22:13:44

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#18 2019-12-05 22:14:51

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#19 2019-12-05 23:23:36

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#20 2019-12-06 10:27:05

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#21 2019-12-17 08:10:48

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

#22 2019-12-17 14:22:07

Re: Auto-orient on ancient walls.

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