Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

Lum · 2019-07-30 13:21:01

That's it right there. Entitlement. All these players feel entitled to choose how the game goes; they don't realize they have no power over that. Or maybe they do, and that's why they're so angry.

It's as if Jason's game has become theirs. Hell, people are telling the developer they "know better" than him. Why? This is not your game. It's his. You were not invited to create this game. You were not asked to participate in its development. You were offered a chance of playing it. That's it, nothing more.

You're small creatures, looking up at the sky, screaming at the sun that you deserve better.

denriguez · 2019-07-30 14:19:31

I don't have anything to add to this conversation except to say that everyone needs to chill the fuck out and enjoy this amazing thing they bought on the internet. This mind-bogglingly complex game, made by single person, that continues to evolve and presents us with new, interesting, challenging--and yes, sometimes frustrating--reflections on ourselves as humans.

Also, Morti, you are an incredible writer. Thank you for these words. If you write anywhere other than gaming forums (and you should), I'd love to read more.

Morti wrote:

People are the neurons of the internet, get enough of them to work together and they have the power to keep a heart pumping, or to move the muscles needed to pick up a crying child, or to engage in vigorous procreation. For that matter they now have the power to wrestle, to thrust knives into others chests, or, with the whole process getting so much more efficient, as we learn shortcuts, to simply pull triggers.
...
I just want to survive, help other people do the same, build some things and imagine I'm a parent,
or a child again.
Some of my earliest memories were faking being asleep on the couch, so I could crack my eyes just enough to see what was on television at night. The comedians swearing and shouting, the audiences laughing, the violence and the sex scenes. But, at the end of the night, when my mother would turn off the television, she made sure to get me into my bed, and it felt comforting to be picked up and carried like that. I might never know what it's like to give that comfort to a child of my own, but at least I remember feeling it. I can only ever imagine what it must be like to be a hungry child or a woman capable of breastfeeding, but I think you did a good job of breaking that down into a game mechanic. It might even turn out to be the best thing you ever give to the world.
Reproduction of your own genes aside.

Léonard · 2019-07-30 19:47:34

RedComb wrote:

[...]

I have nothing to add.
I couldn't have replied to Jason any better myself.
This might have been the absolute best post I have read on this entire forum.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Somehow you want me to hate working on it. Or make me feel so bad about it that I quit?

I love my players....
BUT... the truth is that players have changed over the past 10 years.

How sad and predictive.

I make a post pointing out that you dismiss people's opinions simply by assuming things about them rather than actually reply to their arguments and what do you do?
Exactly just that.

At least it was tolerable when you simply ignored 99% of players' suggestions and simply stuck with ignoring and not responding to them.
Now we know why you did that.
Now I can't give you the benefit of the doubt anymore.
You weren't just busy or bad at arguing or shy or anything like that. You're just a self-important jackass and you think we're beneath you.

jasonrohrer wrote:

That's the train you got on.

That's another part that I hate about your posts too.
Straight out denial.

If I tell you war swords are boring as a game mechanic, you don't need to get defensive and tell me they "create rich dynamics" instead.

I know what I signed up for.
I know the train I got on.
I know what I saw when I watched your trailer.
I know what I like and don't like about your game.

And that's why I have a right to criticize you when you shit all over the game I liked.
Shut up with this already. Stop throwing the fault onto other people and take responsibility like a grown up adult once and for all.

Lum wrote:

That's it right there. Entitlement.
[...]
You're small creatures, looking up at the sky, screaming at the sun that you deserve better.

RedComb wrote:

Talking like that, you act like we are only allowed to do one thing when in your august presence: kissing your ass.

That's right we're just ants under the sun.
We're just "entitled", "angry" and "take anything way too seriously".
Not that our feedback matters or anything.

Did you even bother to read this thread at all?

denriguez wrote:

everyone needs to chill the fuck out and enjoy this amazing thing they bought on the internet.

Same thing here.

arkajalka · 2019-07-30 19:52:31

Yes we may be ants, but...

“You can judge a man's true character by the way he treats his fellow animals.” - Paul McCartney

Spoonwood · 2019-07-30 20:11:34

jasonrohrer wrote:

Let's go back to building everything along desert boundaries.

That wasn't the case. Some people did settle in grasslands near swamps. Some people did settle in jungles also. Most towns may have had some things along desert edges, but not all of them.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Let's go back to clothing making no sense, and causing you to boil instantly if you stepped in the wrong place.

Except clothing heating you does make sense. A sealskin coat not heating you in a hot area doesn't make sense.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yes, the temp update, which fixed and improved all of this, was a complete disaster.

Apparently you didn't even understand what I wrote about how the temperature overhaul made the game worse. Also, none of what you say addresses interest. At the very least, the old temperature system was more complex and allowed for more movement when optimizing temperature, regardless of what you think of temeprature. As I said elsewhere, this consists of a game about parenting. A more complex system requires more in-game parenting of players, and thus the old temperature system fit better with a core concept of the game.

jasonrohrer wrote:

FINALLY, let's go back to 5000 /die babies a day! Those were amazing times!

Having been someone who used to use /die (Twisted wasn't such a person), the problem was lack of player choice. It's still a problem.

jasonrohrer wrote:

That was fixed instantly by life tokens, which was the single most unpopular update in the game's history.

Your solution to your problem, which you have assumed was the problem, involved fewer people having the ability to play the game, since some people got locked out of playing. That implies that the player population was less than it could have been. Thus, the game has less potential for popularity. And that problem of having less players than you could still makes for a problem. Even if you had gotten the issue correct, it's rarely good to make another issue when solving one, unless that the new issue consists of a smaller one than the old issue.

sigmen4020 · 2019-07-30 20:18:09

Don’t even pretend that grass swampland camps were a thing before the temp update. I was there at the time and people were blasted on the forums for trying to make those camps work. Any camp that even tried this were plagued with SID babies making every attempt fruitless, since everyone wanted to be in desert/jungle towns because they were far superior. Swamp grass camps were called noob camps for very obvious reasons.

Only thing acceptable by the vets at the time were naked people in desert/jungle towns, and anything else would be either hit with SIDing vets or berry noobs and die at gen 3 at best.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-07-30 20:21:41)

Spoonwood · 2019-07-30 20:38:31

sigmen4020 wrote:

Were you even playing the same game as me?
...
Insulation was awful.

Yes, I played the same game. The insulation numbers in fact remained the same. Not a single insulation number changed with the temperature overhaul. And clothing did have an effect. I remember spending time in the tutorial area practicing blacksmithing using the provided clothes before the temperature overhaul. I was surprised how little I had to eat, because I had gotten use to even being naked in a grassland or in badlands... as I recall from running around as an Eve (I use to try to get sealskin since I knew I wouldn't spend much time in good temperature area... even though I would put the kiln on a desert edge or less commonly in a smallish jungle).

The only change with respect to clothing in fact consisted that clothing could now insulate people from temperature shock. The biome system changed. Since living a neutral biome with clothing HAD been better than living in a desert center before, neutral biomes made sense as more common after the temperature overhaul.

sigmen4020 wrote:

If you wanted to travel you really ought to just stick to desert or jungle borders rather than waste your time making a worthless piece of clothing.

If you could do that. But, if you were getting milkweed, branches, iron, or prairie resources, etc. it probably wouldn't be feasible to do that. I do recall seeing a soil pit along a desert edge and running along a desert edge in one life, but that seemed like a rare enough find.

sigmen4020 wrote:

People were being called griefers for making anything besides backpacks with rabbit fur. You were actively wasting the towns food supply if you were wearing insulating clothing.

You were wasting food if you were out of town if naked (usually... neutral biome towns did exist, just weren't as common). In other words, the ideal way of playing with the old system would be to put your clothing down when you came home for a trip. And when you went out for a trip, then you would want clothing. Sort of like how a nudist in a cold climate might live. No clothes at home, but puts them on when s/he goes out of the house, because they're too useful and snowy weather doesn't fit well with nudity.

sigmen4020 wrote:

You say that the new clothes are pointless but then you mention a pretty big exception. Them not decaying is a huge advantage.

No, that's a disadvantage. It lulls people into thinking that they are better. The new clothes usually imply people eating more than the old clothes. But, people thinking the new clothes are better means that they'll end up eating more, yet insisting that they are 'better'.

sigmen4020 wrote:

They still give enough insulation to be a load off the food supply compared to being naked. If they were released without the temp update however. They would be as pointless as the radio if not more. They would be griefing tools or at least seen as such.

No, not at all. Again, if you're were going out of town, they probably could be useful.

The old temperature system COULD have dovetailed nicely with a property system for clothing, assuming that people would use such responsibly and pass on the property to people who would only wear them when out of town. The current temperature system can't dovetail with a property system for clothing, because it's pointless to take clothes off.

mikeyreza · 2019-07-30 20:43:12

I was probably Jason Defender #1 on the discord, but this whole thread has made me rethink what side I really should be on. I mean, I suppose Jason has a point. This is his game, his work, his decisions. However, that does not mean he should completely throw his entire player base out the window. The posts he has made on this thread almost make me whole-heartedly believe Jason is trolling us.

sigmen4020 · 2019-07-30 21:08:26

Spoonwood wrote:

sigmen4020 wrote:
Were you even playing the same game as me?
...
Insulation was awful.
Yes, I played the same game. The insulation numbers in fact remained the same. Not a single insulation number changed with the temperature overhaul. And clothing did have an effect. I remember spending time in the tutorial area practicing blacksmithing using the provided clothes before the temperature overhaul. I was surprised how little I had to eat, because I had gotten use to even being naked in a grassland or in badlands... as I recall from running around as an Eve (I use to try to get sealskin since I knew I wouldn't spend much time in good temperature area... even though I would put the kiln on a desert edge or less commonly in a smallish jungle).
The only change with respect to clothing in fact consisted that clothing could now insulate people from temperature shock. The biome system changed. Since living a neutral biome with clothing HAD been better than living in a desert center before, neutral biomes made sense as more common after the temperature overhaul.
sigmen4020 wrote:
If you wanted to travel you really ought to just stick to desert or jungle borders rather than waste your time making a worthless piece of clothing.
If you could do that. But, if you were getting milkweed, branches, iron, or prairie resources, etc. it probably wouldn't be feasible to do that. I do recall seeing a soil pit along a desert edge and running along a desert edge in one life, but that seemed like a rare enough find.
sigmen4020 wrote:
People were being called griefers for making anything besides backpacks with rabbit fur. You were actively wasting the towns food supply if you were wearing insulating clothing.
You were wasting food if you were out of town if naked (usually... neutral biome towns did exist, just weren't as common). In other words, the ideal way of playing with the old system would be to put your clothing down when you came home for a trip. And when you went out for a trip, then you would want clothing. Sort of like how a nudist in a cold climate might live. No clothes at home, but puts them on when s/he goes out of the house, because they're too useful and snowy weather doesn't fit well with nudity.
sigmen4020 wrote:

You say that the new clothes are pointless but then you mention a pretty big exception. Them not decaying is a huge advantage.
No, that's a disadvantage. It lulls people into thinking that they are better. The new clothes usually imply people eating more than the old clothes. But, people thinking the new clothes are better means that they'll end up eating more, yet insisting that they are 'better'.
sigmen4020 wrote:
They still give enough insulation to be a load off the food supply compared to being naked. If they were released without the temp update however. They would be as pointless as the radio if not more. They would be griefing tools or at least seen as such.
No, not at all. Again, if you're were going out of town, they probably could be useful.
The old temperature system COULD have dovetailed nicely with a property system for clothing, assuming that people would use such responsibly and pass on the property to people who would only wear them when out of town. The current temperature system can't dovetail with a property system for clothing, because it's pointless to take clothes off.

In the tutorial were you by chance in a area filled with half desert half green when you forged. No I don't think so. The only reason it was the same way was due to being forced to be in an area not in the meta at the time. Using that as an argument is pretty weak because the tutorial area never changed as well so obviously it would feel the same. But we weren't playing in the tutorial now were we?

You still claim that clothes were still so useful before, but I have vivid memories of being called out for daring to make pants instead of using the fur for a million backpacks.

Have you even used the new clothing? Even the smallest amount of clothing make a big difference when it comes to your need for food. Giving a child just a pair of pants will help you save a lot of food. And the new clothing give more total insulation than pants, so yes it does make a difference.

Btw I remember going out of town wearing clothing thinking that that's optimal and then getting stung by mosquitoes realizing how stupid I was for thinking that in the first place. You were better off just going off naked since wild food was pretty much always abundant and you didn't auto-die to mosquitoes.

Do you honestly think that clothing being absolutely worthless was a good thing for the game. Before clothing was aesthetic at best, food bar wasting at worst. There was absolutely no reason to invest in insulating clothing. You seem to have very rose tinted glasses on when it comes to before the temp update.

Edit: Oh and please tell me that clothes were worth more before the temp update. Make me laugh.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-07-30 21:09:58)

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-07-30 13:21:01

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

#27 2019-07-30 14:19:31

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

#28 2019-07-30 19:47:34

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

#29 2019-07-30 19:52:31

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

#30 2019-07-30 20:11:34

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

#31 2019-07-30 20:18:09

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

#32 2019-07-30 20:38:31

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

#33 2019-07-30 20:43:12

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

#34 2019-07-30 21:08:26

Re: Are you ready for the Steam review score to tank?

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