The Apocalypse Week

DarkDrak · 2019-07-25 04:54:29

Alright, since im part of the group causing the current mess, i probably should explain why.

Monday:

Here we can see Jack and Yikes enjoying their first succesful apocalypse and me discovering that building three towers simultaneously/with a small delay between one another doesnt just override eachothers' homemarks, making one of them effectively invisible, but gives everyone with hetuw mod three bell locations so they can come and dismantle them, just so only one of those gets successfully passed on to children. Therefore the tower that was completed first was indeed invisible to everyone. This alone makes apocalypses a joke.

Tuesday:

Here we can see Whatever making an apocalypse on his own for the most part, because of how easy it is to build and protect vs how hard it is to destroy/prevent, and us helping him out 'cause the guy deserved it. Also the bugged apoc-mark makes it easy to navigate around the map even without a belltower (which was necessary for the previous apocalypses)

Wednesday:

Here we can se us + Kaybro speedrunning another apocalypse but scraping it down because someone (no clue who, please messege me on disc whoever you are) else had already made this:

and unlike the three previous ones (that were done 15-30 minute ride away from everything), this one was right in the middle of civilizations, with a town being roughly 0,35k away from it and other two under 2k each.
And it rung roughly 5 hours before ours (thought due to a misclick we lost 4hour progress), so we had decided to protect this one instead.

Tomorrow hopefully we can make another one before the new upgrade wipes the map out.

I believe that several problems were highlightened here.

The apocalypse does NOT require one to reach the highest point of the tetch tree to be made.
Correct me if im wrong, but i remember that this feature was added when cities grew out of proportion and game became stagnant, so we needed a reset feature to be used when we reach the highest level of tetch. That however is not the case. We can place the first block as soon as our villege creates its first tools = when we make the spring site into a shallow well. And for the apocalypse tower purposes, no further level of tecnology is required.
Propriety Fences right now are an overpowered way of greifing but a useless form of defense.
You all probably heard this one over and over again, but let me add my voice to the common choir here.
As you can see from yesterday's and today's apocalypses... the towers were invisible until the third endblock was placed and after that all we had to do to prevent their deconstruction was to wall them in with propriety fences and then come in turns to kill all outsiders and rock them down every hour. Wednesday's apocalypse site didnt even have a proper defense system - all one had to do to enter was to lockpick one door - but nobody could do it because of an impenetrable and easy to set wall, that takes over the lifespawn of a person to be dismantled. Unless people come in organized groups at the right moment and camp its decay, we can just come over every hour and something, rock them down and then die with a devious face. And if they DO come in organized groups, we'll just counter them with our organized group.
They were introduced to keep outsiders from coming inside, but are way easier to implement in a way to keep insiders from coming outside/ whatever and whoever's inside to come in contact with the outside world.
Just building a tower forces people, who dont want a reset, to spend at least some of their time to go to it and dismantle it. Building one far away, forses people to spend a whole life getting horse and running to dismantle it. Building one and effectively protecting it forces a whole load of people choosing between ignoring it and possibly allowing the work of their past lives go to waste or spending each one of their lives by getting horses, weapons, lockpicking tools/wall building tools and rushing to the apocalypse site, with a high chance of just getting killed and acomplishing nothing; and if we add the problem 2 in consideration, then with a high chance of not being able to acomplish anything other than having hoarded useful resources from their town to a remote and barren location. The game for those people becomes effectively a horse-hoarding/marching/fighting simulator. I dont believe that to be the spirit of this game.
And if someone suggests to just build a stone wall around it and then keep it safe to settle with your own propriety fence, reversing the roles... well, that's a huge wall they gotta build, with a not-so-easy to get resourses to surround an infinite resource; and with 6 hours of time to do it vs over 18hours the pro-apoc group had to settle their defences. And then it's still 10 hours of rotation vs 6 of the apoc groups'. These parallel resources simply arent comparable.
As monday's apoc showed, the current design of letting players know of an apocalypse, to be able to prevent it, simply doesnt work if people have to deal with more than two towers set at the same time.

The next upgrade will probably solve some of these probems switching them with other problems of different nature but i'd still like to adress them.

Last edited by DarkDrak (2019-07-25 13:41:57)

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-07-25 05:24:29

DarkDrak wrote:

Also the bugged apoc-mark makes it easy to navigate around the map even without a belltower (which was necessary for the previous apocalypses)

Basically the only thing I need to see here.

Dont act like your not doing it just cause tarr greifed your bells.

The first apocalypse before everything broke was fair, and I know and you know (I have teh evidence) that you ran into problems and it wasn't a first attempt thing.

Anything AFTER the break is a joke and just bug abuse. I see those and see 3 different ways to make them inoperable, but alas nobody finds them or has a marker.

But it should get fixed by next update, he knows about the problem.

schmloo · 2019-07-25 05:41:05

What an absolute mess.

Last edited by schmloo (2019-07-25 05:41:17)

testo · 2019-07-25 07:23:49

I don´t get the whole "stop the apocalypse" thing. It´s part of the game and It doesn´t hurt anyone that bad.

DarkDrak · 2019-07-25 07:36:45

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

DarkDrak wrote:
Also the bugged apoc-mark makes it easy to navigate around the map even without a belltower (which was necessary for the previous apocalypses)
Basically the only thing I need to see here.
Dont act like your not doing it just cause tarr greifed your bells.
The first apocalypse before everything broke was fair, and I know and you know (I have teh evidence) that you ran into problems and it wasn't a first attempt thing.
Anything AFTER the break is a joke and just bug abuse. I see those and see 3 different ways to make them inoperable, but alas nobody finds them or has a marker.
But it should get fixed by next update, he knows about the problem.

1) Those werent my bells.
2) Might not have been Yikes's and Jack's first attempt but it was for me (excluding the two successfull apocalypses before this one)
3) You cant call the first one fair if it was bugged

ollj · 2019-07-25 08:04:44

The game for those people becomes effectively a horse-hoarding/marching/fighting simulator. I believe that to be the spirit of this game.

schmloo wrote:

What an absolute mess.

yeds, did you shit on the flor again?

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-07-25 08:21:40

DarkDrak wrote:

1) Those werent my bells.
2) Might not have been Yikes's and Jack's first attempt but it was for me (excluding the two successfull apocalypses before this one)
3) You cant call the first one fair if it was bugged

1. I was lumping you in a group with jack and yikes
2. Well they let you and whatever and a few others in on the horrible little secret while the rest of us were in the dark.
3. No the first attempt was stopped before that, and right after is when they made and figured out the multi bell issue.

I'm not anti apocalypse

I'm against people acting like something is a sorry idea when they are abusing it and basically breaking it without anyone else knowing.

If you completed a apocalypse without breaking the game, I'd give you some room to criticize, and say "oh the apocalypse is a joke"

Until yall found a loophole it wasn't a easy task and don't act like it was.

Your disrespecting the people who legitimately attempted it and few people that legitimately pulled it off.

ollj · 2019-07-25 10:42:06

self summary:
- i build and guarded a lot of bell towers before the 1st of 3 most recent apocalypses (finished 2) and "my turkey hunting helped people find their apocalypse tower more easily while no bells where rang", as 10-60 turkeys on plates in the middle of nowhere are also pretty unique markers that barely get moved much during 10 hours, and you pick them up and move them one tile to have them not despawn. its a "barely mobile" item, easilymass produced and maintained anywhere, but hardly transported. by the time it happened, the oil-depöetion typo messed upo the meta so much, i could not care less for this apocalypse.
- i found the 2nd of 3 apocalypse towers in its early constant ringing time, it was a lonely tower, and i gave birth next to it (likely first ever), which got me into private chats and preventing all following births next to it to reach age 14, and strategizing about apocalypse towers.
- the 3rd of 3 apocalypse towers i pretty much missed due to private party times. it was messier and much more riosky, but heres the thing, the group(s) that made ahe 3 most recent apocalypses doubled in (total) size with every apocalypse; 3 people, 5 people, 10ish people (hard to tell). the most recent apocalypse was a silly race and i only whitnessed its end

Last edited by ollj (2019-07-25 10:55:07)

ollj · 2019-07-25 10:54:54

testo wrote:

I don´t get the whole "stop the apocalypse" thing. It´s part of the game and It doesn´t hurt anyone that bad.

the game initial advert includes persistence and failure "build a civilization from nothing", but most recently, the persistence within this game is greatly diminished as no family lives longer than 25 hours, which comes to an upper bound of 100ish generations. unless you count this forum and its discord channel.
germany/europe have stricter "false advertising laws". and it may actualyl require a change to "this society-building MassiveMultipolayerOnlineGame resets all progress almost daily now, as part of its game design."

that upper bound was much higher previously, around 200ish generations are reached before cumulative economic pressures lead to a fatal decline, while many reached 130-150 generations, or at least cities with bell towers had their owners swap every 4 hours, but the locale itself had almost a week of long term persistence, due to constant influx of horses, cliothes, tools/weapons, iron, and food from a 1-5k radius.

Last edited by ollj (2019-07-25 10:59:16)

ollj · 2019-07-25 11:17:00

aaw man, full disclosure here, i mean i already posted a lot about this here:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7328

Wednesday screenshot was made by me and im the only person in the image.
this one was much closer to many families than the previous one, so i though, lets make a centaur maze, but with bears instead.
this idea was improvised by othewrs in the other endstone tower image below half a day later, but all that happened in my absence (1 afk party day had).

the Tuesday endstone tower the day before, i was likely its first visitor upon its near completion, and gave birth tio a smart enough dauther thwere, that died dumb/curious at age 10m hunted down by "whatever".
"whatever" introduced himself as its lone maker, as i posted a screenshot in discord about gibing birth next to an endstone tower.
we both chatted in native german. i didnt believe much about his claim of him being the lone maker of that tower, but thats still the official story among a dozen of people by now.
I told [whatever] about "there exists a group of 3 who made the previous apocalypse tower, i believe you are one of em or easily get to know them", and this is where i basically introduced "whatever" to "DarkDrak", and it was an apocalyptic love triangle for a while, as this is an international venture with its time zone issues.

You may have the impression that apocalypse tower makers are the worst griefers of all in terms of mass descruction, especially with 3 apocalypses within 70 hours.
during that time, diesel engine cars are build quickly by twinning, to a point where, in theroy, we may aswell build an endstone tower by plane near or in the tutorial zone from a nearby outpost.
But they are actually sociable and know this game well and make the game mostly more exciting for all involved factions, which makes for nice youtube/twitch drama, which is free promotion.
The group also mostly agrees that building apocalypse towers is WAY too easy and needs to be a more difficult challenge, up to bug reporting a lot about it being very flawed game mechanics; 1 or 2 people that only know this game for a motnh or two apparently can do it, with a total investment of only 32ish manHours within 25 ingame hours total. this is just very imballanced. to a point where it turned into a race of mostly anonymous people by the 3rd apocalypse.

And there are at least 2 group of at least 10x as many people building endstone towers now, roughly 20 people have build 3 endstone towers in parallel in very different places, shared between the groups, guarded between the groups, as these places are by chance mostly unguarded or semi abandoned "red herrings" and backup plans.
the most recent apocalypse proved, that distance to very populated cities barely matters, as long as its over 600 tiles, when 10 people make 5 endstone towers in parallel, one of them easily finishes within less than 30 hours.
and anything within 600 tiles of an endstone tower is quickly hunted to extinction.
except bears.
we love bear guards.

Last edited by ollj (2019-07-25 11:48:31)

MultiLife · 2019-07-25 12:26:04

Great, so can we now have peace and quiet to just build and build and build without any extra apocalypse wiping in the process?

I think most of your points have been proved already, and known of.

Also, to add to the apocalypse discussion, I personally hate the distraction it forces upon me. I don't want to fight over if it happens or not, but I don't want to be affected by it, so it's forced on me. If I don't act, it affects me. If I act, it affects me. I wish I could live my game lives without it. There is zero interest for me, in the battle over it. And zero interest in this side of the game. I find it absolutely dry and boring, with violence and loophole abuse sprinkled over it.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-07-25 12:29:25)

Solbusaur · 2019-07-25 16:59:03

What's the loophole here? I'm only half understanding this

MultiLife · 2019-07-25 17:18:48

Solbusaur wrote:

What's the loophole here? I'm only half understanding this

Broken directional arrow and other apocalypse related issues enable hidden apocalypses as they go unnoticed due to these issues. Broken aspects create loopholes to abuse.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-25 17:35:52

Okay, there's a lot of text here, but this is clearly an issue that should be fixed.

Can someone clearly an concisely summarize the exploit (or exploits?) for me and add it to this issue?

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/363

Maybe what's described in this issue already covers it. If not, please add more details.

DarkDrak · 2019-07-25 17:42:23

Grim, you appear to be confused.

1) My misunderstanding. My own motives for making apocalypses are still different than what you suggested though.
2) Nobody let anybody else on any little secrets. When i joined forces with Jack and Yikes, we followed my plan and made three towers for the first time monday. The bug was discovered then and the next day i made sure to leak info about it so it would be posted on github.
3) Yeah, they were making endtowers before that. Someone else probably too. Personally didnt ask much about that.

Also

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

If you completed a apocalypse without breaking the game, I'd give you some room to criticize, and say "oh the apocalypse is a joke"
Until yall found a loophole it wasn't a easy task and don't act like it was.
Your disrespecting the people who legitimately attempted it and few people that legitimately pulled it off.

Wanna hear how much the apocalypse is a joke?
The first Apoc i pulled off was on 5th June, with the help of 5 other people, after somehow people didnt manadge to make it for months.

The tower was unprotected by anything other than a rubber tree and was pretty close to civilization.
All we had to do was to keep repopulating the bell tower cities and ring the bell at the timing of the apoc tower's chime. That's it. Nobody prevented it.

It felt glorious at the time, but looking back at it now it feels like it wasnt supposed to be that easy.
This stuff got fixed and hetuw mod spread out much more so it's no longer a viable strategy now.

The next apocalypse followed a similiar pattern, but it was thought out more and protected way better. I didnt plan that one, but still had the pleasure to take part of it.

apoc_2.PNG?width=1123&height=631

Do i have your regal approval to criticize this broken feature now?

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-07-25 19:50:34

DarkDrak wrote:

Do i have your regal approval to criticize this broken feature now?

Lists reasons why it was so hard to accomplish for that long and requiring a pretty hefty amount of people (try to make 4 or 5 people in a village focus on one thing like that.)

Also describes the joyous and gratifying feelings of pulling of something not everyone can do.

"I don't like it, because it's broken. Even though it took bug tester levels of testing, and a very long time to eventually break."

I just dont see the logic there?

If the game was going to get a basic update this week, jason does whatever he needs to do with the server and client stuff to fix the bug, and boom it's fixed, and still makes sense.

But now I agree with you.

NOW that the game is changing drastically with the non infinite map, maybe the apocalypse towers SHOULD be changed and another apocalypse challenge added after.

ollj · 2019-07-25 19:58:44

when we had 6 bell towers constantlay ringing bells, i was born to a rather new eve that spawned between 2 towns with 6 bells.
she sayd "i am bell" and wanted to go to the bell just 1k-ish far away, BUT her one home marker switched directions between NE and SW every 6 minutes, and she kept saying "oh no it is broken again, okay i give up".
it was so cute, i knew the place so much better, and had to abandon my frustrated confused mommy.

so thats how you mask asomething ringing with something else that is ringing.

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The Apocalypse Week

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