Sustainability Laws

brianj · 2018-03-01 19:27:31

THE FOUR LAWS

NEVER VIOLATE
EVEN TO SURVIVE

ONLY PICK FRUITING MILKWEED
FRUITING MILKWEED regrows and gives seeds
NEVER EMPTY PONDS
Ponds refill if not DRY. Refill ponds if dry.
ONLY HUNT FAMILY ANIMALS
Lone animals don't respawn. Family animals come back.
DON'T PLANT BERRY BUSHES
Berry bushes waste fertile soil. Only plant if composting

THE COROLLARY:
TEACH YOUR CHILDREN THE LAWS

---------------

I've seen some confusion about how to manage early era sustainability.

Milkweed & Animals, if properly managed, regrow once per epoch (currently 60 minutes, ie one generation). Ponds, if properly managed, refresh steadily over time.

Teaching your children these 3 laws will give subsequent generations a chance to survive on your land. Its better to die early than break any of them.

EDIT: I've added a FOURTH LAW to the list. THOU SHALL NOT PLANT BERRY BUSHES! Berry bushes effectively destroy fertile soil with a single bad generation.

I've also added THE COROLLARY, which is to teach your children the laws.

If a fifth law is added, I think it would be something about leaving carrots to seed (because otherwise you can wipe carrot seeds out from your region!!), or never digging wild carrots? I'm not sure how to frame this in a way that is sufficiently generalized as a sustainability law.

EDIT2: I added some justifications to each law.

Last edited by brianj (2018-03-07 03:53:27)

sinoth · 2018-03-01 19:29:31

Good to know! Thank you!

Uncle Gus · 2018-03-01 22:44:12

Very important laws. Spread the word.

yvanhooe · 2018-03-02 05:14:11

Ponds can be refilled with a pouch though, can't they?

brianj · 2018-03-02 18:30:09

yvanhooe wrote:

Ponds can be refilled with a pouch though, can't they?

Maybe you can? I've never survived near a pond I refilled long enough to tell. The recipe list doesn't have a special state for ponds that have been refilled, so it looks like they might? I thought Jason said at one point though that that would be too easy, so that they didn't. Hm.

Portable Water Source + Dry Canada Goose Pond Portable Water Source + Canada Goose Pond

Norgg · 2018-03-02 19:49:02

brianj wrote:

Maybe you can? I've never survived near a pond I refilled long enough to tell.

Yeah, you definitely can, done it a few times and seen them start replenishing again.

TyrantNomad · 2018-03-02 21:03:03

Law 2 is not only for ponds, although it is more strict for ponds.

It seems that the closer something is to max capacity, the faster it replenishes.

This is also true for berry bushes - I have not tested it for fertile soil & clay.

Empty berry bushes refill at a much slower rate than those with only 1-2 berries missing.
It's one of the main reasons why villages with huge berry farms still fail - as soon as they're all empty, it doesn't matter the size of the farm, they're not coming back for a GOOD while.

Uncle Gus · 2018-03-02 21:25:49

Right, so it seems that a foundational principle is not to deplete any resource completely. But that milkweed law is probably the most important because it's the most easily broken by noobs walking around plucking stalks willy nilly.

Vescator · 2018-03-02 21:34:42

@TyrantNomad

Berries do not Replenish faster with 1 or 2 berries missing.
Source: link

TyrantNomad · 2018-03-02 21:42:44

Vescator wrote:

@TyrantNomad
Berries do not Replenish faster with 1 or 2 berries missing.
Source: link

Hmmmm that's surprising - I could bet that bushes that were almost full always seemed to have a new berry whereas solo base bushes remained empty. Probably something to do with perception bias.

I'd still advise people not to empty the goddamn bushes though

brianj · 2018-03-02 22:17:07

The THREE LAWS are meant to ensure that the land is viable for *future* generations. They don't really concern themselves with the current generation.

Stripping all the berry bush may be an optimization (though I don't believe it matters based on the game data I've looked at), but doesn't impact FUTURE generations.

Likewise, leaving carrots to go to seed is important for keeping a farm alive, but doesn't irreparably damage the environment in the same way that the three laws address.

I think more advanced civilizations will need laws concerning soil and tree management. For our current level of development, though, I still think these are the most important early lessons.

Uncle Gus · 2018-03-02 23:07:11

It doesn't look like clay or soil regenerates, so that's going to be a civilisation limit. We will need to either split off new colonies to go live either in new areas where there is more fertile soil or send travellers to get more soil and return it to the civilisation.

Norgg · 2018-03-03 00:14:10

Uncle Gus wrote:

It doesn't look like clay or soil regenerates, so that's going to be a civilisation limit. We will need to either split off new colonies to go live either in new areas where there is more fertile soil or send travellers to get more soil and return it to the civilisation.

Yeah, I've found a few areas now where all the soil has been used up for berry bushes that have inevitably gone dry, how about adding "don't plant berry bushes" to the laws?

Uncle Gus · 2018-03-03 01:03:27

Yes, I agree. Carrots for life.

egrigby · 2018-03-03 01:51:34

I think overfeeding babies is a big sustainability issue. Mom's are having difficulty keeping themselves fed. If you instruct the babies to type F when they are down to 2 bars. This gives Mom more time to feed herself/do tasks.

brianj · 2018-03-03 18:42:22

Overfeeding babies just screws the single generation. It doesn't harm the land.

I agree that berry bushes are a scourge.

THOU SHALL NOT PLANT BERRY BUSHES

Monroe13 · 2018-03-03 18:51:25

I'd add the law of warmth:

5) Cold babies are hungry babies. Make fire a high priority and keep your newborns close to it to greatly reduce the calories they burn.

brianj · 2018-03-03 20:52:34

Monroe13 wrote:

I'd add the law of warmth:
5) Cold babies are hungry babies. Make fire a high priority and keep your newborns close to it to greatly reduce the calories they burn.

That is very useful information! Definitely teach people.

I don't think that fits the theme of the laws, though. The laws are meant to prevent actions that screw future generations over. I'm trying to keep this very succinct so that you can realistically teach all the babies that you raise.

If we try and fit every bit of survival lore, it becomes unrealistic to teach.

Tebe · 2018-03-03 22:54:24

I think some kind of carrot seed caution is needed for a 5th law... Similar to the milkweed problem, this is about keeping seeds always available. Last night I found myself in a land of dead hamlets where the carrots were depleted. All prairies for miles were devoid of wild carrots - all had been dug up. no farms were left with seed or flower. For miles in all directions this was the case - dead settlements with empty rows of unseeded soil, and not a seed in sight. Hilariously, there was an overabundance of milkweed. I saw the inverse in another region, where I came across a frantic man pulling a depleted handcart across the wilds with a single milkweed seed, and it seemed that he had seen some real shit out there.

How to word it in a simple universal rule though, I don't know. Different farmers treat their crops differently.
"Never pluck the last carrot in a row without a seed to replace it" would be close.

Uncle Gus · 2018-03-03 23:33:10

It's the "go light on the land" tenet, which means making no permanent change. So no digging up wild carrots, no cutting wild wheat.

brianj · 2018-03-04 01:39:32

I'm inclined to deal with carrots in a second cultural layer (tenets) since they comparably easy to produce...

That is reinforced by my third proposed cultural layer, the MILKWEED PEOPLE.

So we have:

1) Sustainability Laws - these get new players behaving in a way that prevents ecological catastrophe as they learn the game
2) Tenets - social norms; guidelines for single generational success
3) Milkweed People - migratory pattern; guidelines for multi-generational success

brianj · 2018-03-04 17:50:05

I added some short justifications to each law at TyrantNomad's recommendation; he pointed out that he didn't realize that fruiting milkweed actually grew back!

Teach your children.

EaterOfBerries · 2018-03-08 16:36:05

A question about the animals law. Is this only for rabbits and mouflon? Because I don't recall ever seeing a goose baby or goose family. Do geese respawn at all?

Zeromus · 2018-03-08 17:45:50

I don't like the fourth law. The first three laws are critical for civilization to progress. The fourth one is just kinda inefficient, but doesn't fit with the rest.

brianj · 2018-03-08 17:55:11

The problem with berry planting isn't that the berries are an inefficient food source, its that they deplete soil if left untended for a single generation when the bush inevitably dies.

Its not as prevalent now (partly I hope because of law awareness), but in week 1 it was common to see huge fields of dead berry bushes when scouting locations. Plots like that are no longer viable, hence the inclusion in the laws-- it screws the next people through the area.

Now, if you're producing 1+ compost for each domestic berry bush you plant, suddenly they become worth it. That's why the law goes on to say `Only plant if composting`.

----

Geese never respawn, so should never be hunted for food. They are necessary for advanced smithing, though, so there's no getting around depleting them for that.

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Sustainability Laws

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