a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
Pages: 1
This is mostly my opinion but the main reason that jason started to work on a new water system was to prevent towns to "not upgrade their wells" because they could just use all the near ponds on the swamp, and he didnt like the swamp and grassland combo neither so it was two gooses in one skewer so he implemented springs to fix that problem.
But now towns just make roads to the nearest springs around to make a new well because the original spring dries fast enough to not being able to be upgraded sometimes. especially in the last state when you have to make a diesel engine, so people just go around and use another spring when the original one becomes exhausted.
I am the only one that feels that springs doesnt last long enough for civilizations to upgrade them "in time"?
make bread, no war
Offline
Can you illuminate me on the actual issue? Do you not need to have a Dry Shallow Well to turn it into a Deep well, a Dry Deep Well to upgrade it to the newcomen pump?
Most Memorable Life : Elisabeth Peters, Adopted by Flint Peters. Gen 59, LD 36
Offline
For upgrading it needs to be dry up first, which in logic seems fine to me, however the problem that comes up is that they dry first before we can get the tools to upgrade it (mostly the last state which is diesel engine honestly) so people just go to other springs to get the easier water, which was the same problem as before with swamp ponds
make bread, no war
Offline
Ahh. So issue is that the wells are dry before the tech to upgrade them is available to most villages.
Most Memorable Life : Elisabeth Peters, Adopted by Flint Peters. Gen 59, LD 36
Offline
Ahh. So issue is that the wells are dry before the tech to upgrade them is available to most villages.
The first dry stage goes from a dry shallow well to a deep well, which needs a stanchion kit. I think those can be ready in time often enough and there's no significant problem for enough settlements (this is a guess).
The next stage is that a deep well gets upgraded to a charocal pump. It takes some time to make those, so the pump parts might not be ready when a deep well runs dry. They can be, as experienced players could make all those fairly early, but admittedly it's possible that they are not (there do exist other things to do also). The main holdup isn't the iron actually, it's the rubber tire needed for a rubber seal on a crude piston to make newcomen atmospheric core (making the rubber takes MORE steps than making a bowsaw from my calculations AND requires going out to a jungle and a desert). Even if they are ready, it's 4 stone blocks, a pump beam kit, a rope, and a newcomen atmospheric core to upgrade the deep well into a charcoal pump, so there's a spacing concern. So, I can see going from a deep well to a charcoal pump as a problem.
The original poster says it's mostly the last stage. The game says 'exhausted deep well', but what happened comes as more complex.
The last stage involves either a charcoal pump or a kerosone pump (the upgraded version of the charcoal pump) becoming exhausted. What remains is an 'exhausted deep well' after the parts of the pump have gotten removed. First a pump valve has to get placed on there to make an unpowered pump head. Then a diesel engine comes as needed. Finally, a charge of kerosone needs dumped into the well to get the water up from the ground. For that stage, the tech isn't ready.
I think Tarr tried to point out this problem a while back by saying that things seemed quite fast in this respect.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
Offline
Ok, so I thought about it and ran some numbers.
Deep wells have a 25% chance to recharge their water 1 bucket (10 Bowls) every 150 min.
Shallow wells have a 6% chance to recharge their water 1 bowl every 36 min, which equivalently is 18.5% chance for at least 1 bowl in the same 150 min time, with a maximum of 4 bowls
It certainly worth it statistically to upgrade shallow wells to deep wells, so there is no benefit in keeping shallow wells until your tech can make deep wells.
But I don't think an overhaul is needed for one reason. It emulates perfectly the issues of water management before diesel engines. Wells used to go dry all the time, and when they did, the town it was based around did collapse. Such things were common even up into the wild west period of the US.
If the wells near your town can not support the growth attempted, then it is a limiting factor. Less crops to be farmed, increasing meat use like rabbit or sheep and save water for farming that supports those, or have a person dedicated to go out with a bowl and 3 buckets in a wagon, to bring back full buckets of water from ponds that are collected sustainable to put in the well as a stop gap before tech catches up. I imagine that this tech hurdle is a great team building exercise. "Ok, Wells gone dry. We need a dedicated baker, blacksmith, farmer, and water gatherer. everyone else, listen to the blacksmith and gather what they need. lets save this town!"
Tech wise though, the Newcomen Pump can be built with low end tech. (Big Rocks, rope, Iron, buckets). Its a wood burning one.
The diesel burning one is the one that is needed, and its only a 5% chance per full empty of the newcomen pump that you would need to upgrade that pump.
I think that leaves plenty of time
Last edited by Valareos (2019-06-03 22:14:02)
Most Memorable Life : Elisabeth Peters, Adopted by Flint Peters. Gen 59, LD 36
Offline
If the wells near your town can not support the growth attempted, then it is a limiting factor. Less crops to be farmed, increasing meat use like rabbit or sheep and save water for farming that supports those, or have a person dedicated to go out with a bowl and 3 buckets in a wagon, to bring back full buckets of water from ponds that are collected sustainable to put in the well as a stop gap before tech catches up.
Empty clay bowls in a backpack. So, it's more efficient to take a bowl and 4 buckets in a handcart or horsecart, or six buckets in a rubber cart.
Tech wise though, the Newcomen Pump can be built with low end tech. (Big Rocks, rope, Iron, buckets). Its a wood burning one.
You need a rubber seal for the crude piston to complete a newcomen atmospheric core. I consider this more mid or high level tech than low tech.
The diesel burning one is the one that is needed, and its only a 5% chance per full empty of the newcomen pump that you would need to upgrade that pump.
I think since the water changes I've upgraded a charocal pump to a kerosone pump 3 or 4 times, but maybe it's only 2 times I've made the wick burner and done the upgrade. I'm sure though that 2 of those times on the first use of the kerosone pump, it's run once and then busted, which at best nets a little less 2 buckets of water, and at worst ends up slightly below breaking even since you need to use the roller and bore to make it (you need a rope also). I don't know how many uses people get out of kerosone pumps on average. I saw one run for a bit in someone else's town.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
Offline
Pages: 1