Private property - the first million you have to steal?

Ilka · 2019-04-21 11:07:28

I will talk about my experiences of how private property works in the game.
I was in the city of the Pie family.
In short - one big chaos.
A lot of tiny fenced areas.
The "owners" steal the common tools and everything that falls into their hands.
One of these "capitalists" stole the whole cart full of baskets with rabbits. During my lifetime they have not been used (it is possible that a happy owner died because I have never met him). Because players focus on building "their" homes, few players do something for the city.
As a result, the city hardly works - many people only take food, tools and bring nothing for the whole community.
Sigh.
Of course, I know that complaining will not do anything here, and I read that Jason wants to make us happy by the war.
It will probably be even worse.
The game was to be based on cooperation and parenting, but since the introduction of the dark Nosay, it seems to me that Jason does not know what he wants.

Baker · 2019-04-21 12:10:09

I think that Jason wanted more conflicts, He succeeded in that regard. Note that you can actually shoot people through those fences if they were being that much of a dick. Once they die the gate will decay and you take back the resources.

The idea is that people in properties should be trading with everyone else rather than just stealing. We will either learn to trade or destroy all fences and go back to communism.

breezeknight · 2019-04-21 14:09:10

i think, we'd need to have property per object as well
& not claimed but made if it comes to crafted objects

every person picking up a nature object for the first time becomes its owner
every person making a tool becomes its owner
it means the game knows who is crafting an object & as long that person is not declining the ownership, it stays until death

every such property can be generally declined, making it available to everybody else
with the death of the owner his property becomes available to everybody else
but the owner can hand down an object to someone else (as its happening already with knives, backpacks, clothing)
fenced property would compliment that by giving access to the things only to handful of people

if we don't have that in game, theft will continue & discourage players to craft things
theft is always demoralising

https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … er_object/

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futurebird · 2019-04-21 15:42:45

I think it would be neat to track what people make, but I hate the idea of even MORE property management. I don't want to have to say "you own this hoe" "you own this plate" "you own this..." etc. I think if people could see some info on how much they got done that would motivate more people to work and make it kind of fun. But, there are ways to help a village besides making stuff, helping someone find the tools they need, teaching, being kind and amusing so kids want to stay, saying thank you to people who get stuff done are ALSO really important.

breezeknight · 2019-04-21 20:24:28

you can't have it both ways,
not have things you made being your property & not have it stolen by anybody ruthless

what we have now is the result of the first, things get stolen, no matter who made it,
it was always that way but with the fences, it becomes paralyzing to the work needed to be done

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Booklat1 · 2019-04-21 20:31:59

breezeknight wrote:

you can't have it both ways,
not have things you made being your property & not have it stolen by anybody ruthless
what we have now is the result of the first, things get stolen, no matter who made it,
it was always that way but with the fences, it becomes paralyzing to the work needed to be done
- - -

yes, because fences were obnoxious, exactly like you're pproposing

the amount of clutter, double items and waste that would be made with item property would break this game.

futurebird · 2019-04-21 21:12:23

breezeknight wrote:

you can't have it both ways,
not have things you made being your property & not have it stolen by anybody ruthless
- -

There is nothing ruthless about taking some hoe blades that I smith and growing food for my extended family. I can smith more tools in a life than I could ever use. It makes me sad when things that I make don't get used that's why I made them.

Even if the person takes the hoe in to their private milkweed farm as long as they are using it I don't really care. The issue with the fences (and still all the storage issues at the same time) is things are being locked away and *not* used. Food is uneaten, stews ready to cook just sit there new hoe sit in carts as the wheels rot off of them. It's utter madness.

In my last life I made a huge fenced milkweed garden and gave rights to anyone who found it (I first made some bowls for the town then took only one bowl with me to get started, when a biome over fenced water and soil farmed a few carrots so I could work then just tilled away for the rest of my life. I didn't have a hoe since I think it's mean to take a village hoe in to a space like that, but I had a lot of skewers and that worked just fine. )

I added a few people who found the farm. And I wonder if they will care for it because it's "theirs" ? I'm still playing with the new fences, but I don't think they have advanced towns much and I'm already seeing places that just ignore them.

Last edited by futurebird (2019-04-21 21:14:03)

Ilka · 2019-04-21 21:29:32

Baker wrote:

I think that Jason wanted more conflicts, He succeeded in that regard. Note that you can actually shoot people through those fences if they were being that much of a dick. Once they die the gate will decay and you take back the resources.
The idea is that people in properties should be trading with everyone else rather than just stealing. We will either learn to trade or destroy all fences and go back to communism.

I did not know about shooting through fences.
And yes, I know Jason thinks that without griefers, conflicts, wars and the end of the world, it will not be interesting enough.
It's a bit senseless for me. In real life, do we think that withoutmurderers, bandits and wars our life will be incomplete and boring?

Let's be honest, everyone who builds a homestead must steal common resources. Nobody will go to collect iron, build own kiln and so on.

I do not think that trade is successful. Homesteads are so small that they can not produce anything in larger quantities. Instead, cities look terrible. The city of the Hyon family looked like a huge cemetery on which someone built tiny pens for people (everyone threw away the bones of the dead behind the gate). The common part of the cities is littered and neglected.

breezeknight wrote:

i think, we'd need to have property per object as well
& not claimed but made if it comes to crafted objects
every person picking up a nature object for the first time becomes its owner
every person making a tool becomes its owner
it means the game knows who is crafting an object & as long that person is not declining the ownership, it stays until death
every such property can be generally declined, making it available to everybody else
with the death of the owner his property becomes available to everybody else
but the owner can hand down an object to someone else (as its happening already with knives, backpacks, clothing)
fenced property would compliment that by giving access to the things only to handful of people

if we don't have that in game, theft will continue & discourage players to craft things
theft is always demoralising

https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … er_object/
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Please, not this one. This is firstly impractical - because the creator of the obbject would have to constantly repeat the authorization for subsequent family members.

Secondly, it will completely ruin the idea of OHOL as a game based on cooperation between players.

breezeknight · 2019-04-22 01:18:30

my suggestion addresses the issue presented in this thread
"Private property - the first million you have to steal?"

but you probably just want to have griefers stop griefing & thieves stop stealing, GL with your wishful thinking

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futurebird · 2019-04-22 02:05:54

Being a jerk should always be an option in this game IMO just one with natural consequences.

Glassius · 2019-04-22 18:20:43

breezeknight wrote:

but you probably just want to have griefers stop griefing & thieves stop stealing, GL with your wishful thinking
- - -

But it happens IRL. There are places with very low crime rate, because people in the choose not to commit crimes.

Personally, I love griefers. They are another realism aspect and challenge to deal with. What I believe, we just do not have enough ways to deal with them. Like, non lethal violence, capturing people (Whatever's traps are no real prisoners).police/guarding dogs, ingame communication...

breezeknight · 2019-04-22 20:21:43

Glassius wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
but you probably just want to have griefers stop griefing & thieves stop stealing, GL with your wishful thinking
- - -
But it happens IRL. There are places with very low crime rate, because people in the choose not to commit crimes.
Personally, I love griefers. They are another realism aspect and challenge to deal with. What I believe, we just do not have enough ways to deal with them. Like, non lethal violence, capturing people (Whatever's traps are no real prisoners).police/guarding dogs, ingame communication...

non lethal violence will be used by griefers
capturing people is already happening with one door houses, any other addition to that will end up in more griefing
(the new fences add another layer to that with prisoners from birth)
so far all "guards" in the game ended up killing someone, out of boredom

the griefing rate in OHOL is very high compared to crime IRL
& that's because life in OHOL is too bland, just to live to survive is just not enough to live at all

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Last edited by breezeknight (2019-04-22 20:25:36)

Glassius · 2019-04-23 21:36:39

breezeknight wrote:

non lethal violence will be used by griefers

Yes it will. But notice, that an entire town can react at spot to such behavior. Currently, if griefer gets all the knifes, city is doomed. With non lethal violence even armed griefer would consider dealing with the mob.

But more important, it gives a more gentle way to deal with low level griefing, like stealing or poorly placed buildings. Killing is too much a punishment, so a common agreement across game is to leave stealing not punished.

breezeknight wrote:

capturing people is already happening with one door houses, any other addition to that will end up in more griefing

This is different from prison. Prison is, when somebody gets caught, trialed and transported to prison. What we have currently, are traps, blind for criminal past of victim.

breezeknight wrote:

the griefing rate in OHOL is very high compared to crime IRL
& that's because life in OHOL is too bland, just to live to survive is just not enough to live at all

You are right. And wrong at the same time. In chimapnzee groups 30% of deaths is when ape kills ape (remember, they do not have medicine, they are biten by leopards and snakes...). In Amazonian savages 15% of deaths is when man kills man. This includes very late birth control with killing infants. The Great Northern War killed 1/4 of Poland citizens, II World War "only" 1/6. With every technological advancement our culture is advancing even more. So, even if reasons are different, ingame griefeing is lower than present in some human societies.

Spoonwood · 2019-04-23 22:50:38

Huh. So, property fences discourage a significant proportion of players from caring about their lineage surviving? Sounds like that could have gotten anticipated.

Glassius · 2019-04-23 23:07:32

Spoonwood wrote:

So, property fences discourage a significant proportion of players from caring about their lineage surviving?

I believe no. Just, before property fences, you could not contribute to the village while working on selfish projects. Everyone could just approach and take part of your work, even if you didn't like it. But the only way before to protect it was to attack, which is very troublesome. Reasonable players were making quick calculations and it is obvious, in single life it is better to not punish stealer. Because, punisher is always harmed by slowdown and temporary handicap and is usually tried to be killed by other villagers.

So, selfishness is the same, only now we can show our egoism to others. Which is great, IMHO.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-04-21 11:07:28

Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#2 2019-04-21 12:10:09

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#3 2019-04-21 14:09:10

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#4 2019-04-21 15:42:45

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#5 2019-04-21 20:24:28

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#6 2019-04-21 20:31:59

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#7 2019-04-21 21:12:23

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#8 2019-04-21 21:29:32

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#9 2019-04-22 01:18:30

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#10 2019-04-22 02:05:54

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#11 2019-04-22 18:20:43

Re: Private property - the first million you have to steal?

#12 2019-04-22 20:21:43

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#13 2019-04-23 21:36:39

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#14 2019-04-23 22:50:38

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#15 2019-04-23 23:07:32

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