One Hour One Life Forums

Tarr

Banned

Registered: 2018-03-31

Posts: 1,596

Re: Anti-fence meta

mThat did make things worse.  But shovel charges was NEVER an issue with potatoes.  People like Tarr who know won't say it, in part because then Jason would nerf iron spawning even more and doing advanced technology would become even more difficult, and it's pretty hard even if you have the iron around already.  Additionally, running a diesel water engine or kerosone pump is more pleasant than running a charcoal pump.  And not getting iron early enough so you can make buckets for water and rubber (the supplies needed to make a pump have rubber, NOT iron, as their hang up)... that can kill a camp with the water running out with just shallow wells, no usable cisterns, and an inability to get to milk.  So nerfing iron more would pose a problem for getting to a camp that isn't so fragile with respect to the water supply.  So nerfing iron spawn probability more would probably make it too hard to build a camp.  But, potatoes weren't a problem in that using shovel charges was always griefing.  That's just silly and shows a fundamental misunderstanding that lack of iron does't kill a camp directly.  Lack of water comes as something that more directly can kill a camp than not having iron around.  And lack of food comes as even more direct.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4700
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5706

There's a reason why no one takes you seriously when you talk about potatoes. The facts point out that potatoes were terrible for both food production and were incredibly iron inefficient. In a world where we can reliably get the soft cap to 14~15 with 20 being a hard cap while only slightly dressed it makes absolutely no sense to grow or make potatoes. You can sit there and stick your fingers in your ears while you play on s12 by yourself growing all the potatoes you can fill yourself with but that doesn't make them any good what so ever. Don't you think it's a problem when eating green beans and corn is more efficient that eating two halves of a potato?

Potatoes had a stigma for a reason, not because the soil cost, water cost, or labor cost of moving them around but because smashing up a bunch of shovels is never good for a village. With so many different options of food available there has never been a reason to grow potatoes besides griefing shovels. If you want yum for fertility you can either make foods that are efficient thus making everyone else's life easier or you can be lazy and make yourself a potato. The only way to become yum queen on the server is either to screw up your temperature to purposely require more food or shake babies in an attempt to drain your food bars thus wasting food.

But don't worry, in magic lala land you are indeed correct and could never be proven wrong with facts or math as that stuff is sensible people.

Last edited by Tarr (2019-04-19 18:36:56)

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fug it’s Tarr.

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Anti-fence meta

Math is scary and hard.  Potatoes are warm and safe.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Anti-fence meta

mThat did make things worse.  But shovel charges was NEVER an issue with potatoes.  People like Tarr who know won't say it, in part because then Jason would nerf iron spawning even more and doing advanced technology would become even more difficult, and it's pretty hard even if you have the iron around already.  Additionally, running a diesel water engine or kerosone pump is more pleasant than running a charcoal pump.  And not getting iron early enough so you can make buckets for water and rubber (the supplies needed to make a pump have rubber, NOT iron, as their hang up)... that can kill a camp with the water running out with just shallow wells, no usable cisterns, and an inability to get to milk.  So nerfing iron more would pose a problem for getting to a camp that isn't so fragile with respect to the water supply.  So nerfing iron spawn probability more would probably make it too hard to build a camp.  But, potatoes weren't a problem in that using shovel charges was always griefing.  That's just silly and shows a fundamental misunderstanding that lack of iron does't kill a camp directly.  Lack of water comes as something that more directly can kill a camp than not having iron around.  And lack of food comes as even more direct.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4700
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5706

There's a reason why no one takes you seriously when you talk about potatoes. The facts point out that potatoes were terrible for both food production and were incredibly iron inefficient.

Tarr has said on the forums that water could be fine on a charcoal pump.  People also use to use more distant water sources and import that water into town with cisterns in town.  Water regeneration does exist, and multiple pond areas exist somewhere, even if setting up a camp won't work there.  Iron inefficency?  But that doesn't matter because the newcomen multipurpose engine technology does NOT need to get built for a lineage to survive.  It's 40 some iron processed appropraitely before a diesel engine gets to usable point.  Getting up oil to from the point of building a newcomen multipurpose engine takes 23+ iron processed appropriately a bucket of water to run the hammer, a bucket of water to run the roller, a bucket of water to run the bore, and on average, and 5 buckets of water on average to just get a gushing oil rug.  Then you need another bucket of water to actually make the oil.  That's 10 buckets of water before oil becomes usable.  Water regeneration with cisterns comes as good enough that doing such is not necessary to maintain the water supply for a settlement with players willing to run a charcoal pump and/or import water from more distant sources and use cisterns.  Getting newcomen multipurpose engine technology is a waste of iron with respect to lineage length.  Doing that hurts lineages, while shoveling potatoes would have the opposite effect of helping them.

Tarr, nor anyone else, has had NO response to me pointing out that iron inefficiency ends up as a non-problem.

  In a world where we can reliably get the soft cap to 14~15 with 20 being a hard cap while only slightly dressed it makes absolutely no sense to grow or make potatoes. You can sit there and stick your fingers in your ears while you play on s12 by yourself growing all the potatoes you can fill yourself with but that doesn't make them any good what so ever. Don't you think it's a problem when eating green beans and corn is more efficient that eating two halves of a potato?

Nope.  Food inefficiency does NOT affect fertility mechanics.  And the wider variety of food types around camp the greater the probability that fertile women experimenting with what they can eat will just happen to get their yum increasing their fertility, ceteris paribus.  With respect to family survival, the problem comes as the insistence on efficiency, instead of trying to get players to smartly yum and have a warm clothing set as this clothing update has shown.

Potatoes had a stigma for a reason, not because the soil cost, water cost, or labor cost of moving them around but because smashing up a bunch of shovels is never good for a village.

As if even 23 processed iron has ever gotten smashed on potatoes.  Again, you have no response to me actually finding enough iron for potatoes as viable.

With so many different options of food available there has never been a reason to grow potatoes besides griefing shovels.

Because every fertile women knows about yum and can identify the efficient yum foods around camp, please.  The greater the number of available food types the greater the probability that some newer player just happens to yum without even understanding how yum works.

If you want yum for fertility you can either make foods that are efficient thus making everyone else's life easier or you can be lazy and make yourself a potato. The only way to become yum queen on the server is either to screw up your temperature to purposely require more food or shake babies in an attempt to drain your food bars thus wasting food.

Shaking babies can get used to increase fertility probability by eating more yummy food afterwards.  However, getting bit by mosquitoes or stripping comes as risky and can be counter-productive during one's fertile years, since fertility with respect to temperature is poor during the period of yellow fever.  And again, you simply cannot MERELY think of just efficiency with respect to water and soil consumption.  Using those calculations as if they meant all that much makes the mistake of assuming that fertility doesn't matter in this game, or that doing things to help other players doesn't matter with respect to lineage survival.  It's not effective enough to just have efficient yum foods for new players.  Those players want to try new foods.  If they only have so many foods, say 15, and have eaten all of them, they will just eat their preferred food type until they understand yum.  And families with a wider variety of foods than just 15 or 20 will end up getting newer players to understand yum and use it sooner.

But don't worry, in magic lala land you are indeed correct and could never be proven wrong with facts or math as that stuff is sensible people.

Again, Tarr has NO response to me pointing out that there exists plenty of iron used in technological advanced (but not fertility enhanced necessarily) settlements, which does NOT contribute to the probability of survival of a lineage. 

Potatoes were fine Jason.  The black gold update, the internal combustion update, the radio updates, the plane updates, and now the high society updates were all mistakes in terms of encouraging players to care about lineage length.  Diversifying the colors of pies so that there would come as more readily identifiable as distinct from each other, would come as a better approach, if you want players to play in such a way as if they are people wanting to have a strong family... at least if lineage ban isn't locking too many people.  The lineage ban also decreases the possible length of families and makes it so that people don't care about their family surviving so much.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Anti-fence meta

Math is scary and hard.  Potatoes are warm and safe.

I agree.  People do NOT want to compute how much iron gets used on multipurpose engine technology, and transfer that iron to potato and other food usage.  They would rather play around with all that tech.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Anti-fence meta

Math is scary and hard.  Potatoes are warm and safe.

I agree.  People do NOT want to compute how much iron gets used on multipurpose engine technology, and transfer that iron to potato and other food usage.  They would rather play around with all that tech.

Poe's law strikes again.

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: Anti-fence meta

Math is scary and hard.  Potatoes are warm and safe.

I agree.  People do NOT want to compute how much iron gets used on multipurpose engine technology, and transfer that iron to potato and other food usage.  They would rather play around with all that tech.

Poe's law strikes again.

spoon actually believing he isnt a joke is gold

even with the changes, even at 50 yum potatoes are worse than milk. 560 food per two soil and one water is worse than the same food for half the soil.