Pip Efficiency Pt.2

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 20:21:08

Gederian wrote:

I think you are both right and just mad at each other.
Pies are needed when traveling and are a byproduct so you must make them. You got off on the wrong foot here, arguing two different points.
The low pip vs high pip argument is probably mute anyways. You can't really control the major variable (what people eat) so just preach about YUM! Berry in bowl is not the same as berry in hand!
Let's just all be friends and do octo eves!

I aint gonna lie, yum bonus is legit

Alias · 2019-01-18 20:22:11

Gederian wrote:

I think you are both right and just mad at each other.
Pies are needed when traveling and are a byproduct so you must make them. You got off on the wrong foot here, arguing two different points.
The low pip vs high pip argument is probably mute anyways. You can't really control the major variable (what people eat) so just preach about YUM! Berry in bowl is not the same as berry in hand!
Let's just all be friends and do octo eves!

Agreed. That's why when producing it's good to focus on maximum results at minimum cost. You can provide foods optimized for least waste or optimized for full bellies at similar cost. Latter is better, because that's the thing that counts in the game. If youcan make your village overflow with food from milk, mutton pie and turkey then you are all good and your family is set to die of nocturnal infertility and not of starvation

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 20:24:10

No alias, waste is much, much less weighted than actual cost of a food.

I've proved this in a post I just made.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 20:24:11

Booklat1 wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
Not gonna argue that making bread and mutton instead of the pies themselves is not just losing pips, although i wont agree that mutton pies are a good food choice overall, the number of pips your average player eats at doesnt line up nicely with mutton pies which makes it very easy to waste alot of it if you dont wanna be bothered looking for another food. Considering everyone has access to your food supply its best to assume worst case scenario.

yes, because you keep disconsidering cost efficiency, a much more relevant metric in favour of "eating berry rabbit pies allows you to not waste a pip)
I've made a formula to evaluate how much food you lose based on average pips when eating, maximum pips per bite and cost. I hope you'll realize how very absurdly wrong you are about mutton pies.

Eh mutton pies are very wasteful, but its fine because you can make so many to outweight that so that ill agree with you on, but what are you talking about with formulas? Are you trying to say you have one or that i do? tbh just confused what u saying...

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 20:25:11

Crumpaloo wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
Crumpaloo wrote:
Not gonna argue that making bread and mutton instead of the pies themselves is not just losing pips, although i wont agree that mutton pies are a good food choice overall, the number of pips your average player eats at doesnt line up nicely with mutton pies which makes it very easy to waste alot of it if you dont wanna be bothered looking for another food. Considering everyone has access to your food supply its best to assume worst case scenario.

yes, because you keep disconsidering cost efficiency, a much more relevant metric in favour of "eating berry rabbit pies allows you to not waste a pip)
I've made a formula to evaluate how much food you lose based on average pips when eating, maximum pips per bite and cost. I hope you'll realize how very absurdly wrong you are about mutton pies.

Eh mutton pies are very wasteful, but its fine because you can make so many to outweight that so that ill agree with you on, but what are you talking about with formulas? Are you trying to say you have one or that i do? tbh just confused what u saying...

you are wrong and I just proved it in my post

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 20:29:44

Alias wrote:

Gederian wrote:
I think you are both right and just mad at each other.
Pies are needed when traveling and are a byproduct so you must make them. You got off on the wrong foot here, arguing two different points.
The low pip vs high pip argument is probably mute anyways. You can't really control the major variable (what people eat) so just preach about YUM! Berry in bowl is not the same as berry in hand!
Let's just all be friends and do octo eves!
Agreed. That's why when producing it's good to focus on maximum results at minimum cost. You can provide foods optimized for least waste or optimized for full bellies at similar cost. Latter is better, because that's the thing that counts in the game. If youcan make your village overflow with food from milk, mutton pie and turkey then you are all good and your family is set to die of nocturnal infertility and not of starvation

Sure if you wanna make a crap ton of milk and pies go ahead thats not what im arguing, my point is that you can make as much of them as you want, they are still going to be wasteful and so far apart from changing their pip values i havent seen another way to make them. Also if you make popcorn and pies at the same rate and cost its doesnt make sense to go with pies, at that point youd just be losing pips for the sake of arguing. If you wanna talk about pip efficiency thats one thing, but you gotta either bring in the rest of the variables that go along with it, or talk about that subject by itself, trying to do both at once is just counter intuitive and im pretty sure thats the main reason you've been arguing at me for so long about this, :L

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 20:34:50

read my post, please. you'll waste food making berry rabbit pies long before you eat them if you don't. Even with waste you get rabbit pies + bowl of berries being about as efficient as rabbit berry pies with no waste. There is math to prove that. You need to eat all rabbit pies at 10 pips for this combo to be equally as bad as a non-wasted berry rabbit pie.

Cost >>>>>> waste

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 20:58:31

Booklat1 wrote:

read my post, please. you'll waste food making berry rabbit pies long before you eat them if you don't. Even with waste you get rabbit pies + bowl of berries being about as efficient as rabbit berry pies with no waste. There is math to prove that. You need to eat all rabbit pies at 10 pips for this combo to be equally as bad as a non-wasted berry rabbit pie.

Cost >>>>>> waste

Just replied to it and ill tell you what i did. Which is that i never claimed not wasting food was more important overall, and that i have already admitted other factors being important, so you trying to prove a point wrong that im not subscribed to its just as pointless as that formula you made...

Alias · 2019-01-18 21:09:32

Booklat1 wrote:

No alias, waste is much, much less weighted than actual cost of a food.
I've proved this in a post I just made.

I think we are on the same side here Booklat. Some foods have amazing value/cost ratio, like milk - or mutton pie which in reality costs 1/4 of water per pie in a city with active compost cycle so in any city that has anything going right.
Waste is such a small factor that it comes to play in edge cases when e.g. food has similar cost and total pips but spread over more bites.
Arguing for popcorn over milk from one cob because of waste is ridiculous. One person can eat all popcorn from one cob in one go while one sip of milk so 10% of one fob value will make person full or almost full. Let him have another sip.
End result is either:
- all popcorn eaten by one person that's still might be not full
- 10% or 20% of milk drank to full one person. Whatever was wasted, you still have 126pips from milk but popcorn is gone.
Waste is to go for popcorn over milk when you have neither and can make either.

Last edited by Alias (2019-01-18 21:20:44)

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 21:29:31

Yes alias, it is ridiculous to waste corn with popcorn when you have milk because it's a waste to make a food that produces less food.
Pip efficiency is not a very good metric for waste and that is the point.

Saying mutton pies are "not that bad" and milk is wasteful is wrong. Well, sure, you may lose some of the pips drinking milk, but how much milk did you make in the first place?

I get it, this post is about pips not used. It gives however, wrong ideas about the importance of this.

Alias · 2019-01-18 21:32:27

Crumpaloo wrote:

Alias wrote:
Gederian wrote:
I think you are both right and just mad at each other.
Pies are needed when traveling and are a byproduct so you must make them. You got off on the wrong foot here, arguing two different points.
The low pip vs high pip argument is probably mute anyways. You can't really control the major variable (what people eat) so just preach about YUM! Berry in bowl is not the same as berry in hand!
Let's just all be friends and do octo eves!
Agreed. That's why when producing it's good to focus on maximum results at minimum cost. You can provide foods optimized for least waste or optimized for full bellies at similar cost. Latter is better, because that's the thing that counts in the game. If youcan make your village overflow with food from milk, mutton pie and turkey then you are all good and your family is set to die of nocturnal infertility and not of starvation
Sure if you wanna make a crap ton of milk and pies go ahead thats not what im arguing, my point is that you can make as much of them as you want, they are still going to be wasteful and so far apart from changing their pip values i havent seen another way to make them. Also if you make popcorn and pies at the same rate and cost its doesnt make sense to go with pies, at that point youd just be losing pips for the sake of arguing. If you wanna talk about pip efficiency thats one thing, but you gotta either bring in the rest of the variables that go along with it, or talk about that subject by itself, trying to do both at once is just counter intuitive and im pretty sure thats the main reason you've been arguing at me for so long about this, :L

Make all the popcorn you want. Milk will always give more food, no matter how "pip efficient" popcorn is. Even if you fed theoretical family of only newborns, milk will always give them more food than popcorn from the same amount of corn. And this is impossible, worst case. You can be efficient at minimizing waste, I will be efficient at maximizing actual calories intake with all waste factored in.

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 21:39:39

Alias wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
Alias wrote:
Agreed. That's why when producing it's good to focus on maximum results at minimum cost. You can provide foods optimized for least waste or optimized for full bellies at similar cost. Latter is better, because that's the thing that counts in the game. If youcan make your village overflow with food from milk, mutton pie and turkey then you are all good and your family is set to die of nocturnal infertility and not of starvation
Sure if you wanna make a crap ton of milk and pies go ahead thats not what im arguing, my point is that you can make as much of them as you want, they are still going to be wasteful and so far apart from changing their pip values i havent seen another way to make them. Also if you make popcorn and pies at the same rate and cost its doesnt make sense to go with pies, at that point youd just be losing pips for the sake of arguing. If you wanna talk about pip efficiency thats one thing, but you gotta either bring in the rest of the variables that go along with it, or talk about that subject by itself, trying to do both at once is just counter intuitive and im pretty sure thats the main reason you've been arguing at me for so long about this, :L
Make all the popcorn you want. Milk will always give more food, no matter how "pip efficient" popcorn is. Even if you fed theoretical family of only newborns, milk will always give them more food than popcorn from the same amount of corn. And this is impossible, worst case. You can be efficient at minimizing waste, I will be efficient at maximizing actual calories intake with all waste factored in.

Also, for one soil and one bowl of water you can make 48 food worth of popcorn. For 1 water you can make 160 worth of mutton pie. You have to waste more than a third of the pies for popcorn to be on their level. That's why you consider the other factors, crumpaloo, you don't just dismiss them.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 21:44:09

Booklat1 wrote:

Yes alias, it is ridiculous to waste corn with popcorn when you have milk because it's a waste to make a food that produces less food.
Pip efficiency is not a very good metric for waste and that is the point.
Saying mutton pies are "not that bad" and milk is wasteful is wrong. Well, sure, you may lose some of the pips drinking milk, but how much milk did you make in the first place?
I get it, this post is about pips not used. It gives however, wrong ideas about the importance of this.

So you, knowing that i was only talking about pips not being used, and not getting the wrong idea about the importance of this factor above others, STILL make posts about this factor being not as important? So you were pretending this whole time to not understand the meaning of my post so you could go on to make posts that try to demean the value of it when i never claimed the importance of this subject as a whole? Then going on to say that people may get the wrong idea when you yourself have pretended not to? What the actual fk man...

Last edited by Crumpaloo (2019-01-18 21:44:58)

Alias · 2019-01-18 21:46:10

Booklat1 wrote:

Alias wrote:
Crumpaloo wrote:
Sure if you wanna make a crap ton of milk and pies go ahead thats not what im arguing, my point is that you can make as much of them as you want, they are still going to be wasteful and so far apart from changing their pip values i havent seen another way to make them. Also if you make popcorn and pies at the same rate and cost its doesnt make sense to go with pies, at that point youd just be losing pips for the sake of arguing. If you wanna talk about pip efficiency thats one thing, but you gotta either bring in the rest of the variables that go along with it, or talk about that subject by itself, trying to do both at once is just counter intuitive and im pretty sure thats the main reason you've been arguing at me for so long about this, :L
Make all the popcorn you want. Milk will always give more food, no matter how "pip efficient" popcorn is. Even if you fed theoretical family of only newborns, milk will always give them more food than popcorn from the same amount of corn. And this is impossible, worst case. You can be efficient at minimizing waste, I will be efficient at maximizing actual calories intake with all waste factored in.
Also, for one soil and one bowl of water you can make 48 food worth of popcorn. For 1 water you can make 160 worth of mutton pie. You have to waste more than a third of the pies for popcorn to be on their level. That's why you consider the other factors, crumpaloo, you don't just dismiss them.

Yes. But even if we stay at equal cost he provided better example than I could come up with: suddenly rabbit berry pie ended up in top tier of his list. It gives 4x18 pips. But at the exact same cost (actually a bit less effort) you can get rabbit pie (4x14) plus 6 berries (6x5). It's better on bite count, total pip value, yum (2 different foods, 3 with bowl of berries), and even on his precious pip efficiency. After all this talk he put THIS in top tier.

Last edited by Alias (2019-01-18 21:50:32)

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 21:54:09

Alias wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
Alias wrote:
Make all the popcorn you want. Milk will always give more food, no matter how "pip efficient" popcorn is. Even if you fed theoretical family of only newborns, milk will always give them more food than popcorn from the same amount of corn. And this is impossible, worst case. You can be efficient at minimizing waste, I will be efficient at maximizing actual calories intake with all waste factored in.
Also, for one soil and one bowl of water you can make 48 food worth of popcorn. For 1 water you can make 160 worth of mutton pie. You have to waste more than a third of the pies for popcorn to be on their level. That's why you consider the other factors, crumpaloo, you don't just dismiss them.
Yes. But even if we stay at equal cost he provided better example than I could come up with: suddenly rabbit berry pie ended up in top tier of his list. It gives 4x18 pips. But at the exact same cost (actually a bit less effort) you can get rabbit pie (4x14) plus 6 berries (6x5). It's better on bite count, total pip value and even on his precious pip efficiency. After all this talk he put THIS in top tier.

This has nothing to do with pip efficiency which is the whole reason for this post. I acknowledge other factors so this whole counter post argument is serving to do nothing but make you look like a asshole.

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 22:02:45

Alias wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
Alias wrote:
Make all the popcorn you want. Milk will always give more food, no matter how "pip efficient" popcorn is. Even if you fed theoretical family of only newborns, milk will always give them more food than popcorn from the same amount of corn. And this is impossible, worst case. You can be efficient at minimizing waste, I will be efficient at maximizing actual calories intake with all waste factored in.
Also, for one soil and one bowl of water you can make 48 food worth of popcorn. For 1 water you can make 160 worth of mutton pie. You have to waste more than a third of the pies for popcorn to be on their level. That's why you consider the other factors, crumpaloo, you don't just dismiss them.
Yes. But even if we stay at equal cost he provided better example than I could come up with: suddenly rabbit berry pie ended up in top tier of his list. It gives 4x18 pips. But at the exact same cost (actually a bit less effort) you can get rabbit pie (4x14) plus 6 berries (6x5). It's better on bite count, total pip value, yum (2 different foods, 3 with bowl of berries), and even on his precious pip efficiency. After all this talk he put THIS in top tier.

I compared both with my formula and even with a waste of 3 pips in each bite of rabbit pie it's still better than berry rabbit without waste.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 22:09:38

Booklat1 wrote:

Alias wrote:
Booklat1 wrote:
Also, for one soil and one bowl of water you can make 48 food worth of popcorn. For 1 water you can make 160 worth of mutton pie. You have to waste more than a third of the pies for popcorn to be on their level. That's why you consider the other factors, crumpaloo, you don't just dismiss them.
Yes. But even if we stay at equal cost he provided better example than I could come up with: suddenly rabbit berry pie ended up in top tier of his list. It gives 4x18 pips. But at the exact same cost (actually a bit less effort) you can get rabbit pie (4x14) plus 6 berries (6x5). It's better on bite count, total pip value, yum (2 different foods, 3 with bowl of berries), and even on his precious pip efficiency. After all this talk he put THIS in top tier.

I compared both with my formula and even with a waste of 3 pips in each bite of rabbit pie it's still better than berry rabbit without waste.

Im confused, so did you or did you not already admit to knowing the post was only about pip efficiency? Bringing up other factors when you openly acknowledged that you understood why i wasn't bring them up just makes no sense unless you are pretending you dont for the sake of arguing. In which case i think im done here...

Alias · 2019-01-18 22:11:02

Crumpaloo wrote:

Alias wrote:
Booklat1 wrote:
Also, for one soil and one bowl of water you can make 48 food worth of popcorn. For 1 water you can make 160 worth of mutton pie. You have to waste more than a third of the pies for popcorn to be on their level. That's why you consider the other factors, crumpaloo, you don't just dismiss them.
Yes. But even if we stay at equal cost he provided better example than I could come up with: suddenly rabbit berry pie ended up in top tier of his list. It gives 4x18 pips. But at the exact same cost (actually a bit less effort) you can get rabbit pie (4x14) plus 6 berries (6x5). It's better on bite count, total pip value and even on his precious pip efficiency. After all this talk he put THIS in top tier.
This has nothing to do with pip efficiency which is the whole reason for this post. I acknowledge other factors so this whole counter post argument is serving to do nothing but make you look like a asshole.

Let's keep it civil ok? Yes, your list was for food including all different factors, that's why I mentioned a few. Taking all into account, how exactly did you end up with rabbit berry pie as top tier?

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 22:18:01

I just told you the threshold in which berry rabbits become better than the alternative Alias gave. That's with the same costs so this can be dismissed. This is entirely about pip efficiency, you have to waste 4 pips of every bite of rabbit pies and eat 6 berries with no waste for it to be worse than berry rabbit without waste.

Do you not like when people give you information you wanted?

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 22:29:37

Alias wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
Alias wrote:
Yes. But even if we stay at equal cost he provided better example than I could come up with: suddenly rabbit berry pie ended up in top tier of his list. It gives 4x18 pips. But at the exact same cost (actually a bit less effort) you can get rabbit pie (4x14) plus 6 berries (6x5). It's better on bite count, total pip value and even on his precious pip efficiency. After all this talk he put THIS in top tier.
This has nothing to do with pip efficiency which is the whole reason for this post. I acknowledge other factors so this whole counter post argument is serving to do nothing but make you look like a asshole.
Let's keep it civil ok? Yes, your list was for food including all different factors, that's why I mentioned a few. Taking all into account, how exactly did you end up with rabbit berry pie as top tier?

The main factor was pip efficiency, and once or twice i talked about time, not compost, and not water, so bringing them up to refute it when i didnt bring them up myself just brings in unaccounted variables that i didnt even discuss in the first place. At that point i have no intentions of continuing the disscussion because what new variables you are bringing up wasnt what i was even talking about in the first place. So when you try to use that as a platform against the validity of just one factor being pip efficiency, all i can see from that is you wanna win a argument and not try to learn something new. This whole original post was me trying to experiment with different theories and see how they would behave against other foods, so forgive me if its not all 100% to your liking.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 22:35:19

Booklat1 wrote:

I just told you the threshold in which berry rabbits become better than the alternative Alias gave. That's with the same costs so this can be dismissed. This is entirely about pip efficiency, you have to waste 4 pips of every bite of rabbit pies and eat 6 berries with no waste for it to be worse than berry rabbit without waste.
Do you not like when people give you information you wanted?

Ill just paste what i already said which is that when you bring up multiple external factors to try to trump just one factor of course its gonna look like those multiple factors are more important, and they could be, but when i intentionally am only talking about the effects of one factor, and then you try to use multiple to refute the validity of it in a senario you made up, that just makes me think you didnt even understand the point of the post at all. But then in another thread you say you admitted that the post was just about one factor being pip efficiency, SO THEN WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO BRING OTHER FACTORS IN IT TO REFUTE THE EFFECTS OF JUST ONE FACTOR? It makes no sense.

and yes i get pip efficeincy is one of those factors in you're formula but you are using multiple other ones that i didnt even bring up in this post for the sole reasons above.

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 22:41:47

I've calculated for the same value of costs, crumpaloo. This is just pip efficiency-wise. The only reason i even considered number of bites is because you keep dismissing it as important in pip efficiency which it obviously is as can be demonstrated comparing a mutton pie with an hypotetical food with 40 food in one bite. Or 40 bites of 1 to a total of no waste ever.

If you dismiss all the other information, Alias is still right, you need to waste some rabbit pie and not waste rabbit berry at all for them to be on the same level. Entirely about pip efficiency, and you're still incorrect.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-18 22:57:09

Booklat1 wrote:

I've calculated for the same value of costs, crumpaloo. This is just pip efficiency-wise. The only reason i even considered number of bites is because you keep dismissing it as important in pip efficiency which it obviously is as can be demonstrated comparing a mutton pie with an hypotetical food with 40 food in one bite. Or 40 bites of 1 to a total of no waste ever.

If you dismiss all the other information, Alias is still right, you need to waste some rabbit pie and not waste rabbit berry at all for them to be on the same level. Entirely about pip efficiency, and you're still incorrect.

Pip efficiency is just defined as the less pips in one use of a food the less likely the pips from that food will be wasted, so when i say a food is more pip efficient, that means that its less wasteful. The amount of of items or bites of a food is a completely different factor then pip efficiency, so when Alias is bring in these new 2 new factors to refute one factor like you've done with your formula that doesnt tell me that the effects of pip efficiency arent valid, that just tells me you guys are trying to bring in forgein factors to win a argument that i never disputed in the first place, so no not incorrect, inefficient.

Booklat1 · 2019-01-18 23:19:45

but you are wrong, you said many times the number of bites doesn't affect pip efficiency and it does. Each bite has a minimum of one food, which directly correlates to a bigger pip efficiency when compared with the same amount of food. Not just smaller bites waste less, each bite has a cap that is also an element of pip efficiency. You saying numbebr of bites doesn't matter ignores that.

DestinyCall · 2019-01-18 23:35:52

Crumpaloo wrote:

Sure if you wanna make a crap ton of milk and pies go ahead thats not what im arguing, my point is that you can make as much of them as you want, they are still going to be wasteful and so far apart from changing their pip values i havent seen another way to make them.

Still not getting it, I see. Meat pies and whole milk are not just higher pip value food with a higher potential for waste from over-eating. They provide more total pips at the same cost as producing lower pip value alternatives. If you intentionally make popcorn when you could be making milk, you immediately waste a huge amount of pips, because you missed the opportunity to make whole milk. If you let the whole milk seperate to make lower pip value skim milk and cream, you lose pips again. The total calories in skim milk and buttered bread is less than the value in whole milk and plain bread. You do not make back that difference by pip efficiency, because you are wasting those pips during production.

Crumpaloo wrote:

Also if you make popcorn and pies at the same rate and cost its doesnt make sense to go with pies, at that point youd just be losing pips for the sake of arguing.

No. That is not the reality of this game. Popcorn and meat pies are not equal cost. Popcorn is a decent low pip value food, but if you try to feed a village on popcorn alone, it will go badly. Brace yourself, more math incoming.

One deep row of corn produces four ears of corn and costs one or two dirt and one water. Those four ears can be turned into four bowls of 3x4 popcorn for a total of 48 pips. Sounds pretty good, right? This is actually one of the best returns for low pip value (high pip efficiency) foods. Now let's look at mutton pie ...

Mutton itself is a by-product of the compost cycle and so is wheat, so the cost of producing four mutton pies is the ability to farm sustainably. So it is not a question of IF your village should produces mutton, just a question of what you want to do with all of it. And the answer is pies. Always pies.

Since mutton is such an unfair comparison, let's look at rabbit pies instead. Pretending for a moment that wheat is not also a part of the compost cycle, it costs one or two scoops of dirt and one water to make one bowl of wheat. Another bowl of water makes dough and that bowl of dough makes four pie shells. The rabbit costs some time to gather and also gives rabbit skins. For essentially the same dirt cost and an extra bowl of water, you get four rabbit pies. Each pie has 4 bites of 14 pips each, totalling up at 224 pips for all four pies made from one wheat. The rabbits cost a litlle extra time to gather, compared with shucking corn and popping it in a bowl, but not enough to make a difference. If the choice is between spending my time and resources to produce 48 pips or 224 pips, I know which one I would pick to keep my village alive longer.

As people have repeatedly pointed out, meat pies are so much better than the lower pip value alternatives, it just doesn't make sense to worry about the additional waste potential. Yes, people can waste pips when they over-consume pies. Yes, this is bad behavior and should be discourage by educating inexperienced players to eat appropriate foods for their age and hunger level. But no ... it doesn't make sense to stop baking pies because noobs and lazy people might waste some pips. No, you should not switch to popcorn as your village's primary food source to prevent food waste. It isn't a good trade, since your village would spend four times as much dirt and water to produce a similar amount of pips. This is the silent danger in big berry towns. If the berries get too plentiful, the wells all run dry while your village struggles to keep up with reviving the dying bushes. Necomen pumps can help bridge the gap, but the core problem of excessive cost/labour remains.

The reason why so many people have been arguing with you about pip efficiency is because it isn't really a deciding factor on any of the important foods. Even when you look at foods that have the same total pip values in the finished product, like turkey broth vs saurkraut both giving 12 pips. The saurkraut is more "pip efficient", so it might look better at a glance. But the cost of producing these foods is dramatically different. It doesn't make sense to spend three iron to make a kraut board, instead of hunting some wild turkeys for a double helping of meat and broth. I have yet to find a situation where potential waste is the MOST important difference between two related foods, because there are always more important differences that end up mattering a lot more. In fact, most of the time it doesn't matter at all.

So far, I've only come across one case where potential for waste might be important. When you are deciding between cooking a goose egg and making a domestic goose with that egg, then eating the cooked goose, the pip values between the two end products are quite similar. Omelettes provide one big bite - 19 pips. Cooked goose provides two modest bites of ten pips each, for a total of 20 pips per goose. When comparing these foods, it is worth considering the pips that will be wasted by eating an omelette, compared with the smaller portions offered by the goose. If you eat the whole goose in one sitting, there is no difference between them, since the extra pips will be lost in both cases. But with the goose, you could eat half now and half later, ensuring that you gained the full twenty pips. Also, the goose could be eaten by a child with less waste or shared between two different people. Cooked goose is also more portable. It is too bad that killing geese requires an axe and sheep dung and the patience of a saint.

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#26 2019-01-18 20:21:08

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

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Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

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Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#34 2019-01-18 21:09:32

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#35 2019-01-18 21:29:31

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#36 2019-01-18 21:32:27

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#37 2019-01-18 21:39:39

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#38 2019-01-18 21:44:09

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#39 2019-01-18 21:46:10

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#40 2019-01-18 21:54:09

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#41 2019-01-18 22:02:45

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#42 2019-01-18 22:09:38

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#43 2019-01-18 22:11:02

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#44 2019-01-18 22:18:01

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#45 2019-01-18 22:29:37

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#46 2019-01-18 22:35:19

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#47 2019-01-18 22:41:47

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#48 2019-01-18 22:57:09

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#49 2019-01-18 23:19:45

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

#50 2019-01-18 23:35:52

Re: Pip Efficiency Pt.2

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