Score Should be Based on Total Hours Played

forman · 2023-07-12 20:46:24

Surviving till old age does not predict skill level or game experience.

Rewarding high score players with more options (such as spawning back into family) makes sense.

The current score mechanic is basically arbitrary.

Total hours played, although flawed, is more indicative of player skill.

Laggy · 2023-07-13 20:39:42

No way, leaders that can barely feed themselves is great fun, and interesting content.

If leader went off total hours plays multiplied by meme score, we may actually have good leaders.

What's the fun in that?

OHOL is like real life, so we have a leader who can barely string together words.

Last edited by Laggy (2023-07-14 06:05:19)

mikeyreza · 2023-07-14 00:43:41

Honestly, Jason should just make leadership hereditary (or allow the ruler to choose their heir), because the meme score system still produces dumbasses most of the time

fug · 2023-07-14 01:16:58

System didn't work previously when someone had to specifically opt in to the system. You either spent a whole life asking for followers then immediately the chain broke because the next person wouldn't follow someone else or people just completely ignored the system.

Laggy · 2023-07-14 19:16:47

fug wrote:

System didn't work previously when someone had to specifically opt in to the system. You either spent a whole life asking for followers then immediately the chain broke because the next person wouldn't follow someone else or people just completely ignored the system.

Think we all just want a system that doesn't make the leader have less playtime then 99% of the town.

Just because you stand in town and eat pies doesn't make you a good leader.

Anyone can live to 60 and not learn a single thing.

fug · 2023-07-15 07:17:42

I mean you're not wrong. The current system encourages people to afk and feed afk people which is obviously bad.

Maybe the simple answer is to just not give negative score for using the die command? New people obviously don't use the score and because they're not picky they'll naturally climb up the leaderboard as the good players keep them alive. If we remove the negative score from /die you will naturally have actual good players with high scores along with noobs which is better than the current situation. To further on this subject what if life tokens only specifically exist for /die usage? When tokens are low classically it's the new players locked out of the game not the dude spamming /die.

Lower tokens to like 10 or whatever number you pick. If you have no life tokens when being reborn you'll take a negative gene score penalty as you clearly are dying too much or using the command too much.

forman · 2023-07-15 18:27:43

For an involved solution, I think the game should just track everything like a lot of games do.
How many pies have you made? How many diesel engines? How many radios?
For each thing you've done you get a score -- more complex things mean greater score.

Unfortunately everyone would start from zero and I don't even bother building a lot of that shit anymore.
After 20-30 or so engines, it just ain't the same anymore.

squishysquid · 2023-07-15 19:19:25

forman wrote:

For an involved solution, I think the game should just track everything like a lot of games do.
How many pies have you made? How many diesel engines? How many radios?
For each thing you've done you get a score -- more complex things mean greater score.
Unfortunately everyone would start from zero and I don't even bother building a lot of that shit anymore.
After 20-30 or so engines, it just ain't the same anymore.

he's already as much as noped on that, because it would be achievements. He does not like achievements.

mikeyreza · 2023-07-15 23:09:58

I think the game should base leadership on your current life. If you are the firstborn of the leader, you are the heir. You can forgo your role in the royal line by declaring somebody else the heir. You can also change your heir as the leader, or renounce leadership entirely.

If you are born as not an heir and not even close to ever becoming one, but wish to have the throne, you can declare independence. If you manage to convince 2 or 3 followers (this ensures that solo griefing efforts cant destroy dynasties) to join you, then you can declare war and attempt to usurp the throne of the original dynasty by killing the ruler.

I'm sure this idea has many flaws (and some of the ideas might already be in the game) but the leadership mechanic is kind of complicated in its current state and I dont really understand it so hopefully somebody wishing to completely own me on the forums can correct any bad ideas/misinfo I've shared

forman · 2023-07-15 23:55:39

mikeyreza wrote:

I think the game should base leadership on your current life. If you are the firstborn of the leader, you are the heir

Issue with that is it makes it more likely a griefer can become leader.
At which point, and it has happened, the leader can exile/kill everyone.

It can still happen now but it would be more probable in an heir system.

mikeyreza · 2023-07-16 00:06:11

My question with that is how can a leader simply exile and kill everybody so quickly? First of all, there should be a cooldown timer on exiling if there isn't imo. Second of all, wouldn't killing everybody take a long time and be pretty difficult? Like, if one person kills another, everybody usually will get super pissed at the murderer and try to kill them. Even if it's some serial killer on the edges of town, somebody would make it back to warn people.

forman · 2023-07-16 00:52:12

mikeyreza wrote:

My question with that is how can a leader simply exile and kill everybody so quickly? First of all, there should be a cooldown timer on exiling if there isn't imo. Second of all, wouldn't killing everybody take a long time and be pretty difficult? Like, if one person kills another, everybody usually will get super pissed at the murderer and try to kill them. Even if it's some serial killer on the edges of town, somebody would make it back to warn people.

Greifer behavior, the tricky kind, is all about lying and confusing people.
This is a game and people play to play and often don't pay attention to the nuances of greifer drama unfolding.

To that effect, a leader can exile someone, stab/shoot them and then say the person did something.
The victim will say they didn't do anything and there is little way to know who is telling the truth.

In the past, people DID figure out leaders were killing everyone.
But to kill the leader is quite complicated. You would have to get all of their followers to no longer follow them and/or accumulate a large group of followers in order to kill them back.

What actually happens, most often, is everyone just runs away.
Eventually the greifer leader dies of old age or starves.

The whole follower/exile/killing system is massively flawed but I honestly can't think of any simple fixes.
I'm sure it's somewhere on Jason's todo list.

One possibility I always thought about was tracking a utilitarian score.
That is, for example, when someone ELSE eats food that you've made, your score goes up.

When other people use your tools or horses or whatever, your score goes up a little each time.
This is one of the only TRUE way to measure 'greiferness' in my opinion.

I think that score should also be 'spendable' in order to do cool things, like choosing your spawn location, spawning as an eve, opening a iron vein, or even blasting someone with a lightning bolt to instantly kill them.

Laggy · 2023-07-16 01:04:20

Ask France how the monarchy system worked out.

We should all just vote in the new leader.

USA USA

mikeyreza · 2023-07-16 01:11:21

The utilitarian score idea is cool, but it gets hard to track with some things. What if your accomplishment is building homes? How do you track the usage of structures? I mean, there's probably a good hypothetical answer, but the OHOL engine is only capable of so much. It'd be a tough thing to balance, too.

I do like the idea of voting in leaders though. That way, if a griefer wants to get into power, he really has to play it smart. I feel like after a certain point, a griefer has earned their destruction. Like, if they can convince the majority of a town to vote them into power, the town just deserves to get destroyed for falling for his trick.

forman · 2023-07-16 01:33:22

mikeyreza wrote:

The utilitarian score idea is cool, but it gets hard to track with some things. What if your accomplishment is building homes? How do you track the usage of structures?

I actually think of building more as a privilege. Everyone always wants to do it and few know how to do it properly.
I'd be more inclined to make it cost in order to build than to reward. But it's still trackable either way.

Gathering would also be important to track somehow.

mikeyreza wrote:

I mean, there's probably a good hypothetical answer, but the OHOL engine is only capable of so much. It'd be a tough thing to balance, too.

It's really not all that hard to do. The real difficulty is most likely in testing things and making sure nothing breaks.

squishysquid · 2023-07-16 07:34:56

Laggy wrote:

Ask France how the monarchy system worked out.
We should all just vote in the new leader.
USA USA

lol two elders craft a guilotine, and you have to drag the leader over with rope.

TheSamWish · 2023-07-17 18:12:39

Laggy wrote:

Ask France how the monarchy system worked out.
We should all just vote in the new leader.
USA USA

Could the trust system not be used for this? If there were a way to track someone's "trust score" similar to their curse score, you could use it to weight the process the game already uses to choose leader.
You would have to filter out offline accounts and donkeys so it won't be exploited so easily. I still think something like that would be better than using playtime but probably not much better than what we have now though.

Laggy · 2023-07-17 19:47:44

TheSamWish wrote:

Could the trust system not be used for this? If there were a way to track someone's "trust score" similar to their curse score, you could use it to weight the process the game already uses to choose leader.
You would have to filter out offline accounts and donkeys so it won't be exploited so easily. I still think something like that would be better than using playtime but probably not much better than what we have now though.

This could easily be abused seeing how no one is using the trust system.

Tarr · 2023-07-17 20:37:04

You can’t just use trust score for leadership because it’s the same issue that caused trust to be added.

Dude with 20 accounts will just twin to tutorial (trip or quad even), trust all the accounts, then boom. I suddenly am always leader because all these accounts are trusting each other.

Leadership can’t be based off making random items because then people just make a bunch of crap for meme points. I could very well see something goofy happening where someone is making a bunch of useless clay dice or worse someone just making and repeatedly smashing engines for points. Things will always be gamed by the players one way or another.

I really do think the solution is removing /die as a point drain and making gene score care about keeping others alive. Problem of course is if you don’t want leadership but maybe there can be a setting that is off by default so new people aren’t getting it, and only people who want leadership are in the pool.

Trolls will still exist but we’ve already seen how the curse changes has shifted some of them to donkey town.

forman · 2023-07-17 21:47:55

Tarr wrote:

I could very well see something goofy happening where someone is making a bunch of useless clay dice or worse someone just making and repeatedly smashing engines for points. Things will always be gamed by the players one way or another.

Already considered that which is why I mentioned the points only go up when the object is consumed/used by another.
Food is the simplest but this could apply to tools or engines.

Yes there are probably exploits but we could certainly plug them.
Most trolls are not willing to invest that much time in greifing and are honestly not likely very smart either.

The thing is it would take too much work to build it like that I'd rather Jason just fix the most pressing matters as simply as possible.

Removing SID subtraction makes sense, yes. I still think total hours played is a good enough solution.

Or multiply the current score system against total hours played or put a threshold with exponential growth/decay somewhere where the two variables overlap.

TheSamWish · 2023-07-17 22:43:04

Tarr wrote:

You can’t just use trust score for leadership because it’s the same issue that caused trust to be added.
Dude with 20 accounts will just twin to tutorial (trip or quad even), trust all the accounts, then boom. I suddenly am always leader because all these accounts are trusting each other.

I wasn't suggesting to use ONLY their trust score to chose leader. I was thinking that the trust score would add an invisible point to your gene score. If one person has a gene score of 55 but no one trusts them and another person has a gene score of 54 but 10 people who trust them are online, then the second person would become leader. I wouldn't want the trust score to weigh very much but some would be nice.

I don't see how having all 20 of your alts trust eachother would do much if it only takes into account online and non-donkey trust into your score...

CatX · 2023-07-18 13:06:55

It shouldn't be necessary to score everything everyone does. If they have built and operated wells at different stages once, it could add a bonus to their gene score when choosing a leader.

But I agree that this isn't very necessary. I wanted a change to the system when I wasn't ready for the responsibility and found it stressful to be picked. But I don't view others not being ready as a big problem.

Strilar · 2023-07-18 18:13:32

Just adding my long "two cents" here...

In my opinion, the current system even if it's not perfect... it works!
I disagree that total hours played should make players leaders, etc.

Surviving to old age although may seem easy is and should be important, not only that, caring for your family too, which is how genetics are calculated. If you just spend time in farm or kitchen eating to old age, your not taking care of your kids, if they are new players and die, your score will go down.

Besides I doubt many would have the patience to just stay still in a spot for an hour just eating until old age, players get bored and want to do stuff, if they are a newbie, they may die before old age from starvation or because of some wild animal, and griefers will usually get cursed and killed before old age, so their genetics lower too. A griefer with good score because he just griefed people for over 100 hours is not a good thing and a griefer getting leader will often abuse that power and cause problems for many others.

Also, genetics ALSO take in consideration how long you played, each life you survive for an hour increases that score, which goes slower and slower up every time. So a player that survived 500 lives to old age will generally have a better score than one that survived 100 lives because it will only go up like 0.1x every life.

I support that a player choosing to /die should negatively impact it as well so they can't choose "where" they want to be leader on their own terms, and a griefer /dying many times so they try respawn in the family they want to grief should also be penalized.

We also shouldn't gatekeep new players and set them apart from "experienced/veteran/good" players. To me it's more important if you're a nice person and care for others than if you know how to build an engine. Heck, often some veteran players don't even listen to others because they are too busy on their own projects making their own building or truck, while a new player may listen to what the people say. Everyone should be important regarding of how good they are at the game.

If a new player managed to survive several lives to old age and have a good score because he cared for his family, he should have the right to be a leader once in a while. (besides i've been leader many times because of my score, and it's a bit exausting to always have that responsability over and over when i just want to work, build, teach and enjoy the game. (yes i know i can pass leadership, but it's not always easy to find someone you can rely on AND have them accept the burden)

fug wrote:

The current system encourages people to afk and feed afk people which is obviously bad.

I agree this is bad, the fault here however is not in the system, but in the people feeding afk players all the time, if they don't want to play, leave game or they should be penalized for it, i refuse to feed afk people unless they warned in advance and asked me to feed them (like if they need to take a bathroom break for example), having several AFK people on nursery being fed is not a good thing (often in front of village fire which keeps dying because people don't see it)

forman wrote:

I think the game should just track everything like a lot of games do.
How many pies have you made? How many diesel engines? How many radios?
For each thing you've done you get a score -- more complex things mean greater score.

I actually would love to have a button to check your player stats in your main menu, the game already registers many things like how many foods eaten, monuments built etc, so i would love to be able to see how many stews i cooked or carts i have built, what foods i ate the most etc

However i don't think there should be achievements or that they should be scored, again, your actions shouldn't be measures just by the things you build. We shouldn't "force" people to work, if they have fun roleplaying a wedding, just socializing and talking with others, teaching players, or just a parent taking care of their kids, they shouldn't be penalized for doing so.

A leader will often build many less things because he's constantly dealing with village problems, trying to maintain peace, deal with griefers, organizing city needs through orders and often needing to stop everything to just go open private property gates they inherited (because of good score) and didn't even knew existed. Don't penalize players for good deeds or enjoying the game the way they want to (as long as they respect others)

I'll stop my ramblings for now, so peace! See ya all in game! :-)

Last edited by Strilar (2023-07-18 23:37:47)

Laggy · 2023-07-18 22:22:55

Strilar wrote:

I'll stop my ramblings for now, so peace! See ya all in game! :-)

:-) My head hurt now thanks

thecolorgreen · 2023-07-22 09:59:54

gonna pop in and say I think things are chill just the way they are.

it's honestly not that difficult to farm up your score if you're looking to be leader... or tank it if you hate being leader (me)

personally, I appreciate that it's manipulable and not reliant on achievements and/or hours played

I don't think it would be fair to say people who have played the most hours or "built the most engines" or whatever should always be given leader... not everybody wants to be leader, not everybody wants to be bound within town limits

plus noob leaders aren't always the worst thing, most of them are open to instruction

imo the real solution is teaching each person how to be a valuable player so that anyone can be a strong leader

One Hour One Life Forums

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Score Should be Based on Total Hours Played

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Re: Score Should be Based on Total Hours Played

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