Excessive amount of griefing

Strilar · 2023-06-28 04:39:30

I don't usually post on the forums much, since when I have free time, I prefer to just log in and try to have a wonderful life among many wonderful people in this game that I consider very nice and special.

However the excessive amount of griefing in the past weeks has been through the roof, i've been playing everyday, sometimes even 4 or 5 hours/life in a day and history keeps repeating itself, just because of two or three players that keep trying to destroy every family and city they can, killing all the animals, kidnapping babies and forcing them to starve, etc.

Most people are stressed, upset, angry in a game that we're supposed to play for fun and to enjoy ourselves. Yes we have bows and knifes to try to protect ourselves, but by the time a griefer has been noticed, many players starved to death kidnapped and locked in private properties, we have 3 or more bears at once at loose around town and skilled griefers that are using mods to give them unfair advantage, or always trying to exploit game mechanics. Even if we kill the two or three griefers plaguing us, we may not have enough arrows to kill the bears they left around.

I don't know what exactly can be done about this, but I felt that this should be discussed after so many lives where we couldn't even take care of a farm or cook pies before some crisis happened and people started dying. One or two players shouldn't have the power to ruin the game for so many people that spend all their time just trying to kill the griefers and their threats. (and yes, we've been exiling and cursing and killing them non-stop whenever we're able to)

Wild animals as danger could be a cool thing, but I propose bears shouldn't be released as a griefing tool, players shouldn't be able to poke bear caves and lure them into villages, instead bear caves could spawn a bear after 2 or 3 hours for example, so they would still be a natural threat once in a while to villages, instead of being used as a weapon of war or a constant problem every life.

TL;DR: In short, please don't let a few rotten apples destroy something so unique as One Hour One Life. Let's promote a more positive behavior among human beings.

Arcurus · 2023-06-28 07:08:38

yea, especially bear griefing is to OP.
For sure bears should not follow that long distance and on horse you should not be immune to wild animals.

In Open Life Reborn its harder to lure Bears in Towns. Also you can protect yourself with fence gates and springy doors that animals cant pass.
On top of that Ai guards will shoot down attacking animals or exiled players.

Spoonwood · 2023-06-28 14:09:58

Strilar wrote:

I don't know what exactly can be done about this ...

I can tell from your post that bears aren't funny.

Bears could also get removed from the game. They don't have anything to do with multiple players surviving, building, or parenting. So, they don't fit at all and never have.

Strilar wrote:

Wild animals as danger could be a cool thing, but I propose bears shouldn't be released as a griefing tool, players shouldn't be able to poke bear caves and lure them into villages, instead bear caves could spawn a bear after 2 or 3 hours for example, so they would still be a natural threat once in a while to villages, instead of being used as a weapon of war or a constant problem every life.

There's only one bear per cave. If each cave released a bear every 2 or 3 hours (and no other changes), you would probably see bear packs coming to town even more often, since lots of the bear packs that come to town come from somewhat distant spots.

CatX · 2023-06-28 23:19:37

I agree about bears being a nuisance. They're not a fun part of this game since they have no purpose. I might hunt a wolf for a hat, but I never release a bear because there's no reward. I'd like to see people hunting bears to make something cool from them - like a bear cloak or a baby crib (could be good for early towns, before buildings are up) or an improved bag.

Bears also have a balancing issue since luring them takes no effort for a griefer on a horse or in a car. While making bows and arrows is hard in comparison. Milkweed is painful to farm in my opinion since it doesn't leave a hardened row. Since rope is used for a lot of things, there's seldom thread or milkweed ready when you need it. Could we at least make thread from balls of thread, by cutting it with something sharp?

And I agree with the comments about griefing in general. The best way to deal with griefers is not to play when they're around and come back later - which we might not do if we get distracted by some other game or activity. Not a great way to build a solid player base.

fug · 2023-06-29 06:37:20

Bear caves only release one bear per server reset. This in my opinion is fine as this means you can clear caves once per week as a means to protect town. Following this I agree (and had already put in a github issue) that horses should not be invulnerable to dangerous animals.

Before you tell me all the horses are gonna get griefed this way this can already be done with snakes in the desert. If people are gonna lure bears it should either be gatekept through skill (gotta lure them without getting bit) or tech (don't let trucks and cars get damaged by dangerous animals.)

Maybe curses need to double block players? I don't know about other people but I curse people to their faces because I do not want to be born around the people I'm cursing anyways. Unfortunately curses right now aren't super effective because the most heinous members of the community already have a bunch of accounts (some using steam + vpn to get accounts cheaply). Maybe a combination of previous curse mechanics would help? What if we returned to the state where accounts with high curses would automatically appear cursed to others? The discord clearly tracks curse names and would be able to use to essentially check if an account is on the public shitlist. However, issue is people not in the discord are likely to just curse people who are showing as global donkeys.

I'm hoping the changes to gene score this week will make murder griefing to be more volatile as now if you start murdering your family it's going to smash your score as almost everyone (besides cousins) are gonna drain you score. This of course means a bunch of idiots dying are going to dunk your score but if you truly care about your gene score you gotta actually help in the case of trolls.

Returning to bears - It's incredibly easy to bear proof a building by setting up sheep pen styled airlocks on buildings. Of course the trade off is your basically make the inside of the building easy to boar bomb. In the spirit of Jason I would say you could always fence a town up to prevent bears but I think we all know how much of a pain that is. Also I hadn't thought of this before the tapout on gates but is it even possible to make a grief proof town gate? If you put something that blocks in front of the gate someone will block the tiles directly north and south of the tile now you can't actually leave your town. If you put the gate the other way someone can just build another gate to bust your gate. Basically trolls made it impossible to use a gate for its actual use by making gates into walls.

Unfortunately as stated: The best thing to do is literally not play when trolls are playing. You can't effectively curse them (account sharing of a bunch of bought accounts), You can't build fences around towns to stop them (they'll lock you in), and you can't kill them (either they have high score due to afking accounts or not effected by trolling due to gene score.)

Do you try to empower those who are dealing with griefers? If you remove /die restriction from posse it allows the good guys to basically quickly spawn in to an area to help struggling towns deal with trolls. However, this enables the problem that got it restricted in the first place - Trolls will communicate which town to spawn into and kill them. Do you reenable twin/groups to be able to join posses? This makes dealing with a solo troll quickly as a twin group can exile/kill (if high gene score) without consulting or dealing with gathering a group. Of course this makes it even easier for troll groups to do the same.

But yeah, anything you do to combat trolls is also a weapon for the trolls.

Arcurus · 2023-06-29 08:19:11

In Open Life Reborn you can much more easily fence your village, since you have natural obstacles like rivers or mountains that add to your fence, so you have much less work to secure your town. To the gate problem there is a fortification system in place, in short the amount of effort you put in something is round about the effort you need to remove it.

TheSamWish · 2023-06-29 13:19:32

Would it be horrible if bears were biome locked?
I feel like the biggest problem with bear griefing is the people who gather a ton and lure them long distances. I'm sure there are problems with them being locked, like them being easier to kill if you stay on the edge or badlands will probably fill up with bears due to griefers. I don't see and major problems tho.

Tarr · 2023-06-29 13:45:43

Arcurus wrote:

In Open Life Reborn you can much more easily fence your village, since you have natural obstacles like rivers or mountains that add to your fence, so you have much less work to secure your town. To the gate problem there is a fortification system in place, in short the amount of effort you put in something is round about the effort you need to remove it.

Due to how we changed gates to prevent the apocalypse gate wall fortresses you can’t actually use them for a fenced village. F = Fence B = blocking item G = Gate

B F B
F G F

You can’t leave your village anymore without elder note removal. Players can purposely launch stuff out of the fenced village via picking up a toddler in a cluttered area to launch out required items. Also people can just take your note off unless you sit and terrify people trying to remove your note.

-B F
X F G
-B F

If X is replaced by a gate you bust out the gate so there has to be at least two tile deep of fence or blocking objects. This pretty much guarantees you’re getting blocked in or having your gate smashed in.

It’s kind of funny to be honest. We had to change stuff to stop the dumb gate forts but because of the method of change tapout vs elder note or other method it completely removed the viability of actual fenced towns not that they’ve been a thin in years.

jasonrohrer · 2023-06-29 14:53:19

One thought:

What if releasing a bear from a cave wounded you? Like the bear jumps out and bites you first?

Actually, simpler to make it so that the bear just wanders at first, until it bites someone and gets a taste for humans, after which it goes chasing/rampaging. So you could still hunt bears w/out being wounded in the process. But a griefer would have to work in pairs and sac one person (or have healing pads ready) to get a bear to follow them.

Since bears are the only wild animal that chases, it does make sense for them to maul a horse (just like a snake can attack a horse).

Oh... and the calm bear could insta-kill the first human (with no wounding). This would still allow an occasional situation with a chasing bear, but a griefer team would have to put more on the line to pull off luring a hungry bear to a village.

Here's the problem with indicating that someone has a lot of curses:

What if a griefer team (or mult account team) targets you, and gives you a bunch of curses for no reason?

Currently, you don't care, b/c you don't want to play around the griefers anyway, so the curses will keep you away from them.

But if suddenly, other players started seeing a warning about you, and started to mistrust you...

Thus, it has to be more complex than just curse count...

But even something more complex like "This person was cursed 10 times by people that you yourself haven't cursed...." even that doesn't work in all cases. Like if the griefers only play at night when you're not on, so you never curse them. Now you suddenly see this innocent person as suspicious.

Or if griefers kept "clean" accounts around just for this purpose. They never did anything with them other than curse people.

One of the coolest things about personal curses that it's impossible for there to be undesirable side-effects. When you curse someone, it's because YOU witnessed something yourself, and it only effects YOUR relationship to that cursed person. And if you curse a bunch of innocent people spuriously, it only hurts you (reduces the amount of places that you yourself can be born).

jasonrohrer · 2023-06-29 14:57:03

But the alt accounts are impossible to deal with...

Maybe we need a whitelist system instead? Where we can collectively discover the good non-griefing players?

So if you get an alt account, you kinda have unknown status.

The problem with this is that brand new players will always be suspect....

Tarr · 2023-06-29 15:34:40

Picking lunch up real quick then can reply to the first message:

That’s true that we cannot stop people from giving you money, you deserve it for making a great game we all love. If reformed wants to pay off your house by buying more accounts that’s his problem lol. Hell he just bought another one two days ago - http://onehouronelife.com/fitnessServer … &id=120747

Right now one of the issues is that we believe people are buying alts using Argentina Pesos since it’s like a dollar USD which adds into the current griefing problem. We know of at least one person who has does this.

In regards to the whitelist and new people - I don’t know about anyone else but because these people are buying alts the “new player message” (at least for me) is a huge red flag not to keep a player and that’s absolutely awful. This is the twin issue again where a few bad apples are poisoning the well and making it so raising someone “new” is potentially a detriment and that’s just against the spirit of the game.

If a whitelist isn’t an option what about something that was brought up before? You have unlimited curses but they’re double sided blocks. If you try to curse everyone you’re cursing yourself out of all the towns. My only concern becomes though is that both sides of this conflict are basically going to park alts in towns to prevent each other from spawning. Both sides in the whole griefer v anti-griefers are going to essentially try to D town the other group

jasonrohrer · 2023-06-29 15:34:51

Whoa...

Game is only 78 cents in Argentina?

And we sold 36 copies there in May... probably all griefer VPN accounts...

Turkey is only $1.07... and we sold 42 copies there.

I need to go in and adjust the pricing to be more sane. Maybe it shouldn't be $14.99 everywhere... but it should be at least $5 everywhere.

Tarr · 2023-06-29 15:59:53

Yeah it’s something that has led to the current issue with excessive griefing. Most sane hardcore players may have 1-2 accounts they hop between depending on curses and what not but the system obviously doesn’t work against the player who has spent 15 dollars and gotten 15 accounts instead of 1.

While the discord can keep track of accounts thanks to curse names being global for everyone it becomes difficult to deal with trolls paying you pennies to grab a fresh account to return on. Basically they just grief, get sent to donkey town, switch accounts, grief, repeat.

I’ll be honest not real sure what the solution is. Curses blocking you born to them and then born to you would at least stop you from having the account near you and you near them but creates an arms race or trying to block both sides of this whole griefing thing from spawning anywhere besides donkey town

Tarr · 2023-06-29 16:11:36

In regards to the bear thing: What if bears made you do a scared emote for some period of time after releasing it from the cave? This would prevent people from releasing more bears and would prevent players from just immediately releasing more bears. If bears attack and wound people when they come out it prevents legitimate bear hunters (not a thing I know) and also means one person could potentially release a few bears in quick succession if caves are close enough.

Thematically it makes sense because who in their right mind wakes up a bear like that and doesn’t immediately freak out. Though now that I think about it you could still wake bears when emoting but couldn’t get on your horse or whatever. Either way I think seeing a bear eat people in town is just an ohol right of passage. You learn to grow berries, grandma teaches you to bake, and your mom gets eaten by a bear in front of you. A true story or the ages. I think part of the issue currently here is the invulnerability since you don’t have to be careful at all when luring bears.

Maybe if the emote worked like yellow fever it would work. Basically cost some sort of pip cost, prevent picking up items, and maybe even clear yum. Releasing one bear might cost you ten pips and disable you from getting on your horse for 30 seconds but releasing multiple in quick succession would basically just kill you. Allows people to still hunt while slowing down bear spawning.

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2023-06-29 16:15:17

Tarr wrote:

If bears attack and wound people when they come out it prevents legitimate bear hunters (not a thing I know)

Tevnoba... He goes on bear massacres and hunted like 80 bears in a life the other day.

jasonrohrer · 2023-06-29 16:24:25

Bear skin rugs are popular, no?

I think the bear will just emerge not angry/chasing. Then if it eats someone, they are insta-killed, and then the bear rampages after that. People who are killed later by the rampaging bear aren't insta-killed, because he's not quite so hungry anymore... he doesn't gobble you up instantly, he just nibbles you.

Tarr · 2023-06-29 16:37:03

I mean maybe a few are nice but it becomes very visually noisy if you put a bunch of them down. Instant death seems fine, maybe the hungry grizzly becomes normal once it bites someone? This would swap it from follow to random which may or may not make things less chaotic.

Also I don’t know if you know but feeding a grizzly is kind of jank. Instead of the normal interaction of using A + B with your hands you actually have to make a grizzly bear walk onto a mutton tile instead of hand feeding it, not that I would want to do that myself but it makes regular grizzlies kind of rare since you have to know how to maneuver one onto a meat tile.

jasonrohrer · 2023-06-29 16:38:11

The problem with personal curses or personal white lists is that there are enough players that you won't play with all of them. There will always be a guy you haven't seen before who is unknown.

We can't build a curse tree (where show you people who are cursed by others), because... why would you trust those people? They might be griefers! So someone else's curses are meaningless to you.

However, we CAN build a trust tree. If I trust you, then I also trust your judgement about who to trust. I should also see your curses.

This will essentially form a tree of the "good people," however you define that.

One problem is if it goes too many layers deep, it starts getting diluted. Like if one bad apple sneaks into the tree, and suddenly you see everyone that the griefer trusts as trustworthy.... it's hard to figure out who to UNTRUST to clear up the problem.

I trust Bob, and Bob trusts Alice, and Alice trusts Dave. And Dave is a griefer, and he trusts 20 griefers.

So now I see a guy Steve that I supposedly trust, but I see him griefing. I could curse or untrust Steve, but that doesn't help much, b/c there are 19 more where Steve came from. I could untrust Bob, but it's not really his fault. It's Alice's fault, but I don't even know her.

Even worse, if Dave cursed a bunch of good people, and your trust tree was used to share curse knowledge, suddenly you're seeing good people as cursed.

Also, even if I wanted to untrust Bob to clear my tree, he's not alive anymore... how do I even find him?

So it seems like we can't really do a tree of trust. But person-to-person trust could be a thing. I trust Bob, and Alice, and Steve. If I see Steve doing something bad, I untrust him.

But sadly, even with shallow trust like this, I don't think we can safely see other people's curses. B/c if I trust Steve, and he curses a bunch of people unfairly, then I'd start seeing them as cursed, and not be able to find the source of it, or know to untrust Steve.

Tarr · 2023-06-29 16:58:12

Yeah I was mostly calling back to previous iterations of the system. Previously once upon s time global curse total caused certain players to always show up as their donkey versions in town which caused people to curse check babies. In this system at least when someone was being a menace it was very clear to all players that so and so had been griefing in previous lives. This would obviously be problematic now because anyone who shows up cursed is probably going to get cursed regardless of what they did their current life. Good for griefer visibility, bad for redemption or unfairly cursed people.

The global + forced playtime curses made it so if you were going to grief on an account if you wanted to unbrick it you had to do the time for the crime. This was nice because A) it limited how much griefing one account could do, and B) served as a punishment even if it was just afk. This one sucked because 5 hours for 2 curses was rough. We once had a guy have to afk 22 hours to get out of donkey town dude to bring a cursed Eve during a server test.

The current system is good because at least it’s trying to place people away from people who don’t want them near. Absolutely sucks when people use curse my baby thought because there’s not a real clear way to guess why you aren’t spawning into a family since how spawning works.

Every system had its pros and cons, I think blessing will be the poor man’s phex chat. Phex is a global chat built into the hetuw mod that allows players to see user names and bypass language restrictions. Basically when people aren’t trying to hide or steal others names it easy to tell who is good or at least neutral. This isn’t to say blessings aren’t something to do just we have a mini version of it as is.

CatX · 2023-06-29 17:24:13

What if the curse data is only shared with your current family?
If a family member has cursed someone nearby, you'll see it.
But if that family member is exiled, you'll no longer see who they cursed. And in your next life, the information is forgotten unless you yourself cursed the person during this life.

Spoonwood · 2023-06-29 20:28:57

fug wrote:

Bear caves only release one bear per server reset. This in my opinion is fine as this means you can clear caves once per week as a means to protect town.

No, this doesn't follow. It would if there was only one play area per week. But, there's plenty of new towns further west each week.

TheSamWish wrote:

Would it be horrible if bears were biome locked?

Nope.

In fact, since bears naturally live in a smaller area than most other animals, it would make more sense if they were biome locked than any other animals.

TheSamWish wrote:

I'm sure there are problems with them being locked, like them being easier to kill if you stay on the edge or badlands will probably fill up with bears due to griefers.

It isn't a problem that it's easier to kill a boar instead of a domestic boar, since the first is biome locked and the second is not. So, I see no reason to believe that biome locking makes for any sort of problem.

Spoonwood · 2023-06-29 20:55:02

jasonrohrer wrote:

Here's the problem with indicating that someone has a lot of curses:
What if a griefer team (or mult account team) targets you, and gives you a bunch of curses for no reason?

Given that such did keep people away from each other, then that team wouldn't have that person to harass, attack, annoy, pester, or cause mayhem too. To use a metaphor, wolves need sheep. So why the hell would Reformed or Kilian do something like that in the first place? They curse in game, because it's not all that effective at removing people. If it were, then it simply wouldn't be in their interest to use tactics to try to remove people from the play area. Therefore, if a "griefer team" did such, then we'd live in alternative reality where socially destructive people are so stupid as to try to destroy future societies as a possibility.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Currently, you don't care, b/c you don't want to play around the griefers anyway, so the curses will keep you away from them.

So you described the griefer cursing the normal player. Given that the normal player does not curse the griefer, the griefer can still get born to the normal player, since players can get born to those who have they have cursed. So, no, such cursing as it works doesn't keep players away from each other.

jasonrohrer wrote:

One of the coolest things about personal curses that it's impossible for there to be undesirable side-effects.

There exists an undesireable side-effect in that it becomes impossible logically to morally condemn such a player for one's descendants or other players. Instead of having the ability to have serious moral judgement of relevance to some community, the moral situation degenerates into a sort of moral subjectivism/relativism. With that also follows the question as to whether moral facts can even exist, or whether morality is just a matter of personal taste. This is not a cool state of affairs, because there cease to exist any sort of means of saying whether or not a person was right or wrong.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Maybe we need a whitelist system instead? Where we can collectively discover the good non-griefing players?

There were people suggesting a "bless system" years ago.

jasonrohrer wrote:

The problem with this is that brand new players will always be suspect

If you have three states "whitelisted", "cursed", and "unknown", it doesn't follow that new players will be suspect for most people, because most people simply won't infer that "non-cursed" is equivalent to "cursed".

Spoonwood · 2023-06-29 21:09:20

Tarr wrote:

Either way I think seeing a bear eat people in town is just an ohol right of passage.

Game was released to the public before bears existed. So, no, bears eating people is not some *rite* of passage.

A problem with writing the way the way that you speak lies in that spelling differentiates words differently than hearing.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Bear skin rugs are popular, no?

It's not that clear how popular it is for players to go out and hunt bears *specifically* for the purposes of rugs. I would often just leave bears dead or skin them and/or leave the skin nearby. Taking rugs back to town wasn't worth the time.

Far, far more many bears get killed after they have come to town or got hunted after one of the two main causes of bears getting released:

1. Someone wanting a quick exit from the game (since there is no instant death option, unlike 2HOL).

2. Destructive players luring bears to hunt other players.

Bear rug popularity concerns how often people specifically release bears to make rugs. For sure, that happens much more rarely than 1. and 2.

Spoonwood · 2023-06-29 21:26:11

jasonrohrer wrote:

We can't build a curse tree (where show you people who are cursed by others), because... why would you trust those people? They might be griefers! So someone else's curses are meaningless to you.

People who care about the opinions of a community, don't generally think like that. Also, why the hell would statistical information about the behavior of other people be meaningless? Statistical information often comes as more informative, not less informative.

In the absence of anything else, there's as much reason to believe other people's curses as to not believe them. When you don't know whether or not some piece of information has truth or falsity or relevance or irrelevance, there's no reason to suppose things go either way.

Additionally, if there were a curse tree, then the majority of the community would have some sort of representation. The majority of the community is not destructive. If the majority of the community were destructive players, things would get destroyed more often than crafted. And the majority of deaths would happen by actions of one player doing something to cause the death of another player. Neither holds, and both are absurd.

Tarr wrote:

The current system is good because at least it’s trying to place people away from people who don’t want them near.

The current system has it so that you can get born to someone who you've cursed. Since destructive players often have behaved in such a way to kill or try to kill other players, why would you want to get born to a school shooter or mass murderer? I mean, suppose that reincarnation is true, why would you want to get born in the next life to Marc Lepine? Alright, you probably don't know who Marc Lepine was.

fug · 2023-06-29 22:03:12

The difference is, you know who the school shooter or the mass murderer is when you join into a family when you have someone cursed. As long as you aren't cursing for dumb things you know who the annoying sheep killer is or the person sitting around trying to troll. While Yes, I don't want to be around these people a double block curse system is ripe for abuse especially with all the new accounts sitting around.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2023-06-28 04:39:30

Excessive amount of griefing

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Re: Excessive amount of griefing

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Re: Excessive amount of griefing

#4 2023-06-28 23:19:37

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#10 2023-06-29 14:57:03

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#11 2023-06-29 15:34:40

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#12 2023-06-29 15:34:51

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#13 2023-06-29 15:59:53

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#14 2023-06-29 16:11:36

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#15 2023-06-29 16:15:17

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#17 2023-06-29 16:37:03

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#18 2023-06-29 16:38:11

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#19 2023-06-29 16:58:12

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#20 2023-06-29 17:24:13

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#21 2023-06-29 20:28:57

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#22 2023-06-29 20:55:02

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#23 2023-06-29 21:09:20

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