Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

forman · 2021-06-29 10:52:44

I was not the first to start the trend of committed coal burning areas. I noticed them cropping up in the last couple months but its hard to say how long it's been a thing.

This further developed with the addition of tree groves, train tracks with carts, and into full fledged coal burning rooms with walls and floors.

At this point, I think we can say with certainty that this is the most efficient way to handle coal but as I watched people interact with these areas I noticed something.

The fact is: the majority of coal is required for crucibles, not smithing, which is why I believe ideal design is to separate all crucible work into a separate coal/crucible room.

This system noticeably freed up a ton of space in the main smith (no more bowls, no more plates, one forge only) which made me think the smith could fit in a 7x7 room.

So I did it. And it works. Amazingly -- far better than the old system and with an added insulation bonus.

For those who say it doesn't matter, you should know these can range up to 16ish sec/pip which is the equivalent difference between clothes and being naked.

This saves food which consequently saves water and ultimately extends the limited lifespan of a city (oil is finite by the way so don't even)

Until now I was a fan of huge very large smithing areas but here are the new advantages:

-- Coal is closer in the crucible room
-- No bowls/plates in the smith, only one forge (saves space)
-- Committed smith means you can have tons of flat stones all laid out and never have to move them
-- Committed crucible room means you can have tons of bowls and plates laid out similarly

The result was I could smith huge amounts of wrought iron (I think about 9 or 10 with ease)

Similarly, I could make about 10ish crucibles at once easily and in both cases this was not optimized and also took basically zero time for setup

Now I know many will complain that a 7x7 smith is too small which is why I spent time watching people use these rooms (and using myself)

The fact is comes down to one critical error: Buildings are not for storage (unless they are storage buildings)

The actual point of buildings is to insulate you while you work. The litany of useless junk that piles up is totally unnecessary and can be pushed out or placed in a 7x7 storage building.

So that is what I did linking trees to a coal room by track, coal to smith, and smith to storage.

This is by far the most efficient design I've seen yet and I firmly believe rooms larger than 7x7 are a pointless waste of time and water (because they are)

Spoonwood · 2021-06-29 11:21:53

forman wrote:

Similarly, I could make about 10ish crucibles at once easily and in both cases this was not optimized and also took basically zero time for setup

The third part should strike any experienced player of the game as a glaring statement. You're talking about having a committed smithy and a committed crucible room. Setting up a room takes a lot of time and resources.

forman wrote:

The actual point of buildings is to insulate you while you work. The litany of useless junk that piles up is totally unnecessary and can be pushed out or placed in a 7x7 storage building.

In terms of what is physical possible. In terms of what is realizable with people having different playstyles, desires, and understanding of game mechanics it's a different matter. Some people also it seems to me, don't care about the insulation loss for rooms. If someone is already building a bigger room, is it worth it to try to get them to build smaller or just leave them alone and do something else in that life? I don't think that is as easy to answer as your theoretical post would suggested. You have talked about a dedicated crucible room, but the whole thing needs to end up dedicated to that and understood. The charcoal production factories have the advantage that some newer player or messier player or jerk likely isn't going to come along and then make it substantially weaker in terms of organization. It would be easy for a newer type smith in my opinion to turn an intended crucible room into a second smithy or for some more clueless player to litter it with stuff. *Especially during a high volume sale period* (if those come again).

Also, I think there's more movement in this whole process. The steel needs transported more with a dedicated crucible room. Kindling isn't likely as centralized.

So, while this idea definitely sounds like it has strong advantages, practically it's not necessarily as good as this sounds. Though maybe the increased insulation makes up for any loss in workplace efficiency that happens as a result.

Oh, also it seems that not all experienced players care about good insulation. I remember seeing a player in Sweetapple/Hards town a while back who deliberately wouldn't wear any clothing from the nursery, or like one item. When I saw the player in another life they looked productive, and I'm assuming that they were still productive even when they wore less or none insulating clothing. And after all, it's a game. Increasing the difficulty of individual survival by going naked deliberately conflicts with multiplayer survival, but individual survival is clearly definable as a concept, while multiplayer survival isn't that way.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-06-29 11:26:32)

forman · 2021-06-29 14:21:59

Spoonwood wrote:

Setting up a room takes a lot of time and resources.

In terms of building, yes. By setup, I mean all of the bowls/plates and flat stones were already in place so I didn't have to spend time to setting that up (which is considerable)

Spoonwood wrote:

The steel needs transported more.

Correct but, as I mentioned, the rooms are connected by a train cart which can move through doors without damaging the insulation bonus (north and south only)

Coal always needs to be transported in this way and, similarly, completed steel needs to be sent down to smith and wrought iron needs to be sent up to the coal room.

This may sound cumbersome but it is actually advantageous because you can put the completed stuff directly into baskets and then into the cart -- like storage.

Also, consider the advantage of how quickly you can fill crucibles with coal when it's all there (and not taking up space in the smith room).

It's hard to explain but feels a lot more organized. Realize, larger cities are designed to do large volume of work per step.

So you make a ton of kindling, then a ton of coal, then a ton wrought iron, then steel... and by the end, no one needs to do any of those things again for a long time.

Spoonwood wrote:

newer player or messier player or jerk

Yes, definitely and some player came and widened the smith the very next day. Part of the point of this post is educate and explain so that other players can do likewise.

At very least, encourage others to try it. It is very different but, believe me, much better.

Spoonwood wrote:

not all experienced players care about good insulation

I have two responses to this:

1. Design

When building, insulation must be a major, if not essential, factor in your design.

If you just say 'to hell with insulation' your design is not only bad, but as bad as it can be because you may as well have no walls or floors at all.

It makes no difference, in fact, the walls only serve to block tiles.

The design is essentially, and necessarily, a failure and you have wasted resources and more importantly time, which brings me to my next point.

2. Villages are built with a clock

That clock is basically a count down to when you run out of water. At that point gingers can extend with oil until the tarries are too far to be reasonable.

Other cultures can similarly scrounge or beg gingers for oil which makes that tarry distance move even faster.

It is thereby the responsibility of every member of a culture to preserve as much water as possible.

Buildings may seem insignificant but they provide a constant bonus to /every/ player moving through the village.

If the village exists for a long time (which should be the goal of any village, hence design) that insulation bonus is going to stack very quickly.

For every player, every life, every second spent inside an insulated building buys the village up to 16+ seconds per pip.

Takes water to make food so eating less saves water.

JonySky · 2021-06-29 15:06:34

I really like your optimism and your desire to work hard in the game ... but I recommend that you do not get too excited about efficiency

forman wrote:

2. Villages are built with a clock

Do you know what is the clock of a village?
The night hours and the low pop hours
No matter how efficient your village or your players are ... if the number of players drops enough ... your city and your family will die and be forgotten.

Remember that we also have server restarts from time to time!

I remember that long ago we had cities with tons of iron prepared to turn it into anything ... and it was useless ... the city died anyway ...

It is the same case as finding dead cities with tons of food, fuel, horses, clothes, backpacks, etc ...

I think we all have found dead and deserted cities with rooms, crops, tables, and boxes, full of articles and varied food.

Last edited by JonySky (2021-06-29 15:36:20)

forman · 2021-06-29 15:57:32

It doesn't matter if a family dies.

Like it or not, the next one will likely return to the old city.

This is the one I'm talking about

https://sharefast.me/AG

JonySky wrote:

Do you know what is the clock of a village?

The main clock is water but the /true/ clock is homeland drift and runs backwards and forwards

Last edited by forman (2021-06-29 16:01:19)

JonySky · 2021-06-29 16:35:26

forman wrote:

Like it or not, the next one will likely return to the old city.

For whom do we build a city ?: for our family ... we don't make large amounts of food or resources for other families, that doesn't make sense, don't you think?
also plunder the city is not the same as repopulating the city
There are many ghost towns waiting for the thefts of resources
that's why I tell you not to worry too much about the high effectiveness and efficiency ... but if you are happy ... go ahead!

forman wrote:

The main clock is water but the /true/ clock is homeland drift and runs backwards and forwards

We should count how many families are left without water vs how many families are left without fertile girls ...
I believe that families do not die from lack of water or food ... they simply die from low pop at night, but not have data to contrast it

Last edited by JonySky (2021-06-29 16:58:42)

Cogito · 2021-06-30 15:38:28

I like your ideas, but they would make me much less efficient at smithing.

To be fair, I will recruit people to help me and have a very strict method that allows for a lot to get done quickly.

For example, I can smelt 3-4 stacks of iron ore with one firing of the furnace. The way to do this is to minimise (or eliminate!) walking, and use multiple people with dedicated tasks to quickly batch process the iron. One person heats the iron and places on a rock next to where they are standing. Someone else hits the hot iron lump. A third person moves the forged iron.

Iron and steel are organised by moving stacks around on the ground, without moving my feet. This can be very fast.

Crucibles take a bit of space, but again just organise the workspace before you start the furnace, and have a few people help. 2-3 stacks of steel (12-18 crucibles) with one firing is very achievable.

With a little bit of yumming it's easy to get a *lot* of excess pips. Using my time efficiently is more important than staying warm, though I agree it's better to do both. Most towns do not die due to lack of water, they die due to lack of infrastructure (and players!).

NoTruePunk · 2021-07-06 06:57:07

I've done a two stage coal+crucible with dedicated smith. I've also done a dedicated coal kiln section with mixed smithy+crucibles.

All three separate sounds very nice. I don't think I'd insulate it though.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2021-06-29 10:52:44

Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

#2 2021-06-29 11:21:53

Re: Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

#3 2021-06-29 14:21:59

Re: Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

#4 2021-06-29 15:06:34

Re: Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

#5 2021-06-29 15:57:32

Re: Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

#6 2021-06-29 16:35:26

Re: Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

#7 2021-06-30 15:38:28

Re: Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

#8 2021-07-06 06:57:07

Re: Separation of Coal/Crucibles from Smith/Anvil with Insulation Bonus

Board footer