Transphobic/harassment discrimination from moderator (fug/Tarr)?

Dodge · 2021-06-14 10:14:38

I'm reposting this here since it's not directly related to the other topic

I quickly checked discord and one of the mods Tarr aka fug on the forums, a discord mod, is posting this:

I dont know the full context but taken at face value it sounds like he's mocking transphobia and the LGBTQ community, maybe even some joke that trans people should kill themselves, bathe with a toaster? not sure.

Seems really weird...

Interested in knowing what concerned person has to say about it.

Definitly doesn't seem like behaviour that a mod should have or anyone posting on discord, if it's actually what i think it is, that should definitly be a ban.

Villanelle2 · 2021-06-14 11:17:39

Yep, they're intentionally misgendering me to spite me. And now it escalated when I wasn't present to them even hinting at suicide.

These are the people moderating OHOL Discord and this forum.

Thank you for brining this up and making the topic to discuss this moderator staying in power. People in Discord don't seem to care. Those who could care it seems by what I heard were banned or driven out and I'm supposed to be an alt of one of those.

This seems to fall under "discriminatory language, cyberbullying and harassment, promotion or encouragement of self-harm or suicide". Vile.

Last edited by Villanelle2 (2021-06-14 11:37:43)

fug · 2021-06-14 15:18:06

Was this in bad taste? Definitely

Should it have been said? Definitely not.

Definitely wasn't wise to actually victimize the person who has been stirring crap for the last five days.

GGhana · 2021-06-14 15:54:19

fug wrote:

Was this in bad taste? Definitely
Should it have been said? Definitely not.
Definitely wasn't wise to actually victimize the person who has been stirring crap for the last five days.

the only valid take

what tarr said is cringe as fuck, but that doesn’t excuse some of the stuff you’ve been doing

Chivalryisfish · 2021-06-14 16:44:19

What's missing here is context, snippets carefully cut out from the whole picture. This particular individual lost their mind when someone referred to them as a 'guy'. So instead of simply saying, oh hey I prefer female pronouns' the individual expected everyone to automatically know about her pronouns and everybody was intentionally misgendering her (without having any prior knowledge, this would be in the realm of magic).

Anyway, I bring that up because this individual referred to Uno as a male. Uno didn't freak out just said, 'I'm a female and now you're assuming gender whilst expecting others to know what pronouns you prefer' I'm paraphrasing forgive me if it isn't complete word for word.
The individual in question, never apologized, never corrected her error and never acknowledged Unos request to be called female pronouns.

So this kind of malarkey is what is going on here. This individual is not a victim, instead projects their behavior onto others, and then victimizes themself when their behavior is criticized.
I wish nothing but the best for this individual and hope they find a community more accommodating.
The.end.

Dodge · 2021-06-14 16:56:31

fug wrote:

Was this in bad taste? Definitely
Should it have been said? Definitely not.
Definitely wasn't wise to actually victimize the person who has been stirring crap for the last five days.

That's not my problem all i saw when i checked discord was messages from you telling someone to bathe with a toaster on the basis of their gender identity, now what if you said the same about their race, that someone should bath with a toaster because they are black, you see the issue.

Everything can be said in reverse, that's not the point, you can say, the behaviour of that person doesn't excuse Tarr for what he said, it goes both ways, maybe Villanelle reacted poorly, possible i dont know, does it excuses what Tarr said? no

You can go on and on about it, what really matters is consequences for the action, if Villanelle acted in a way that justifies a ban then Villanelle should be banned and so does Tarr if he acted in a way that justifies it.

And from what i see since details on the ban of Villanelle havent been posted, currently only one ban is justified and its Tarr/fug

Really dont know if Jason is cool with having mods that are openly discriminating, is that even ok with discord rules? idk

DestinyCall · 2021-06-14 17:01:32

Based on the screenshot above, Tarr did not tell Villanelle to bathe with a toaster because of their gender identity. Unless there is some additional context that I am missing.

Dodge · 2021-06-14 17:16:47

DestinyCall wrote:

Based on the screenshot above, Tarr did not tell Villanelle to bathe with a toaster because of their gender identity. Unless there is some additional context that I am missing.

Bathing with a toaster makes your pronoun valid, just put two and two together, i dont really want to go into details, the phrase is poorly made though he was probably really drunk...

Do you really think he shouldn't be banned for that? Especially as a mod.

Maybe not perma i dont know it's not up to me, but at least a good amount of time to reflect on his behaviour and how he's supposed to convey himself.

DestinyCall · 2021-06-14 18:09:28

In my opinion, it doesn't sound like you want justice to be served. It just sounds like you have a personal beef against Tarr and want him to get banned because you have had disagreements in the past.

This incident just seems like a convenient excuse to get him in trouble, because you don't think he should be a mod.

...

It has always bee my understanding that when you are on a moderated forum or chat group, when a mod tells you to stop doing something ... you should just stop immediately. Don't argue. Don't question it. Don't complain about the injustice of your freedom of speech being suppressed. Just. Stop. If you don't stop, after a single warning, there's really no reason to be surprised when you get yourself banned. Some places have very lenient moderation and they will let you get away with a lot of shit before they bring down the hammer. And that might make you feel like you can say whatever you feel like without consequences. But there are always consequences.

That being said, I don't agree with being rude to rude people because they are being rude to you. My parents taught me that two wrongs do not make a right. And I do agree that moderators have a burden of responsibility because of their position. Like the police, they must hold themselves to a higher standard than the people they are policing and lead by example. If they can't even follow their own rules, how do they expect others to do the same?

So yes, I think that a moderator should always try to behave in a manner befitting of their station. And if a mod is routinely abusing their authority, it should be addressed. I just don't think that you have proven that is what is going on here. From what I can tell, the OP was stirring up drama repeatedly and getting on everyone's nerves for days, when Tarr lost his cool and said some things he shouldn't have said.

If I thought Discord was a civilized place full of nice people who only say nice things to each other, I would be really shocked by this incident. I am not shocked. Even a little bit.

karltown_veteran · 2021-06-14 18:24:59

I think maybe an apology is in order. This was definitely distasteful considering 42% of trans people commit suicide because of how they are treated by the world. It’s a very sensitive topic and whether Villanelle2 is a troll or not is irrelevant to respecting her (I think? Unsure) pronouns. I also don’t know if Villanelle2 is transgender or not because I’m not active on the discord but if she was transgender it would make it a lot worse because she would have no doubt faced hate already by the outside world for being trans and it would be only natural that she might lash out on someone potentially well meaning.

Regardless of how it relates to Villanelle2 those remarks are harmful to any trans people in the OHOL community. I think they’re pretty nasty and you should say sorry, Tarr, although Destiny’s opinion is closest to my own regarding this.

Also unsure why Villanelle2 got banned from the forums since she hasnt been very inflammatory / arguing with everyone on here. I guess mods have been a bit ban happy since the forums have slowed down, but since I’m not active and not really part of the community any more a ban doesn’t bother me either way.

Laggy · 2021-06-14 18:33:03

karltown_veteran wrote:

Also unsure why Villanelle2 got banned from the forums since she hasnt been very inflammatory / arguing with everyone on here. I guess mods have been a bit ban happy since the forums have slowed down, but since I’m not active and not really part of the community any more a ban doesn’t bother me either way.

Moderators have no oversight? Maybe they just throw that ban hammer around and see who it hits? Maybe it's the same moderator from discord. Maybe absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Dodge · 2021-06-14 18:34:15

DestinyCall wrote:

In my opinion, it doesn't sound like you want justice to be served. It just sounds like you have a personal beef against Tarr and want him to get banned because you have had disagreements in the past.
This incident just seems like a convenient excuse to get him in trouble, because you don't think he should be a mod.

If any other mod would have said that i would have acted the same.

DestinyCall wrote:

But there are always consequences.

At least we can agree on that.

It's weird that you think Tarr shouldn't be held responsible for his actions and face the consequences of it.

" I just don't think that you have proven that is what is going on here."

Proving what, do you not know how to read?

If anyone else would be banned for saying that then should a mod be exempt from it just because of their function?

DestinyCall · 2021-06-14 18:57:15

Dodge wrote:

" I just don't think that you have proven that is what is going on here."
Proving what, do you not know how to read?

I was referring to the previous line in my post:

"And if a mod is routinely abusing their authority, it should be addressed. "

Dodge wrote:

If anyone else would be banned for saying that then should a mod be exempt from it just because of their function?

From what I have seen of moderation on this forum, you could totally get away with saying what Tarr said or something similar, depending on context. In fact, if I looked back through your posts, Dodge, I bet I could find some really hurtful statements directed at some of our more socially-challenged members.

There are no clear rules of conduct or solid guidelines on what is or is not accepted behavior around here. It makes the moderators' job a lot harder to do, because everything is so subjective. It means that stuff that would get you immediately banned on most forums will have little effect here. You have to really WORK at getting banned and even then, it is usually temporary.

From what I can tell, that's an intentional choice. Jason likes his personal freedoms.

Spoonwood · 2021-06-14 19:29:32

DestinyCall wrote:

Based on the screenshot above, Tarr did not tell Villanelle to bathe with a toaster because of their gender identity. Unless there is some additional context that I am missing.

Yes. Bathing with a toaster, I would suspect, is known as deadly to the vast majority of reasonable adults. And if some adult doesn't know that water and electricity don't mix, he or she probably missed something somewhere along the way. This makes it seem like Tarr's "as long as I bathe with toasters my pronouns are valid" is more like saying that people who insist on pronouns other than man, woman, boy, or girl are suicidal and want to have everyone accept their pronouns (which won't happen) on the basis of them being suicidal. It's more like a claim that suicidal people can get away with things done in joke form... *maybe*. It's not a command, injunction, recommendation, or moral judgement that someone kill their own self.

Well, I guess I've assumed that the phrase assumes a plugged in toaster.

Spoonwood · 2021-06-14 19:32:32

DestinyCall wrote:

It has always bee my understanding that when you are on a moderated forum or chat group, when a mod tells you to stop doing something ... you should just stop immediately. Don't argue. Don't question it. Don't complain about the injustice of your freedom of speech being suppressed.

It's very well possible that a moderator's ban can be in error. It has happened in this community, and I speak from personal experience. But, don't come in guns blazing for the mods in any main area. Read the rules, and check to see if you haven't broken any.

Spoonwood · 2021-06-14 19:45:08

karltown2 wrote:

This was definitely distasteful considering 42% of trans people commit suicide because of how they are treated by the world.

???

This statement seems to imply that all transgender suicides happen, because of how other people treat them. This is likely not the case, no matter the notion of causality we use. Also, people are responsible for their own lives. The direct cause of a person killing their own self is always their own behavior. I don't see why we wouldn't assume that they made a choice also, at least if we assume that people make any choices at all. How people treat them may be a motivating factor, and thus may be part of the causes there. However, it's not the only one. It's not necessarily the most influential one. And it might even have a very, very small influence, especially for something as individualistic as taking one's own life.

Additionally, don't confuse attempted suicide with completed suicide. I don't know your source, but I would suspect you've done so.

Spoonwood · 2021-06-14 19:49:05

Dodge wrote:

Proving what, do you not know how to read?

Says the guy who thinks "as long as I bathe with toaster..." is the same as "go bathe with a toaster" or "you should bathe with a toaster". Assertions of fact about other people aren't injunctions or moral judgements about them Dodge. And that's even if this were some sort of assertion of fact about that individual.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-06-14 19:51:58)

DestinyCall · 2021-06-14 20:29:52

Spoonwood wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
It has always bee my understanding that when you are on a moderated forum or chat group, when a mod tells you to stop doing something ... you should just stop immediately. Don't argue. Don't question it. Don't complain about the injustice of your freedom of speech being suppressed.
It's very well possible that a moderator's ban can be in error. It has happened in this community, and I speak from personal experience. But, don't come in guns blazing for the mods in any main area. Read the rules, and check to see if you haven't broken any.

I'm not talking about getting banned. I am talking about getting a warning and the best way to respond if you DON'T want to get banned.

Arguing with mods, complaining about mods, and insisting that you have been mistreated by the mods are all great ways to get marked as a troublemaker. Even if that alone isn't enough to get you banned, you are putting a big fat target on your back for the next time you say something stupid or inflammatory.

I am not saying you shouldn't defend yourself from perceived injustice. But I am saying that it will most likely end in tears and it won't be the mod who is crying.

In the immortal words of Dennis the Peasant "Help! HELP! I'm being repressed!":

https://youtu.be/l8ukak8P2vY

Gremlynn · 2021-06-14 20:47:45

I think the issue here is less about villanelle's behavior and more about the mods behavior. Someone who is a position of power should be held to a higher standard than someone who's just generally in the discord or on here. That said, if we went digging through all the mods chat history we would find a lot of disturbing things, especially from some. Should these people be moderators? Probably not. Do we have any better options? Not really. I miss jord.

Bathing with a toaster, in reference to anyone, should not be in a mods vernacular. It doesnt matter if they told them to kill themselves or not. They were mocking them and mentioned bathing with a toaster in reference to them.

Last edited by Gremlynn (2021-06-14 20:57:46)

Spoonwood · 2021-06-14 21:00:41

DestinyCall wrote:

I'm not talking about getting banned. I am talking about getting a warning and the best way to respond if you DON'T want to get banned.

You had said:

DestinyCall wrote:

It has always bee my understanding that when you are on a moderated forum or chat group, when a mod tells you to stop doing something ... you should just stop immediately. Don't argue. Don't question it. Don't complain about the injustice of your freedom of speech being suppressed.

The last part, maybe, since speech hasn't necessarily censored. Maybe arguing isn't in order also. But, if the mod is wrong and telling you to stop doing something, then you should not stop immediately. And you should question what the mod says. With that in mind though, anyone responsible needs to know and understand what the rules are.

DestinyCall · 2021-06-14 21:09:16

You can go ahead and question what the mod says, if you think that they don't know the rules, but I stand by my statement that that is not the best way to respond if you don't want to get banned.

Dodge · 2021-06-15 04:27:58

Tarr/fug has been warned by Jason, maybe he will get some "time off" to think about what he did, probably not though knowing Jason...

Really weird on your part Destiny that your are defending this behaviour, you never know what type of person you're talking to with the anonymity but you can slowly paint a picture of who they are.

But anyway, case closed.

Spoonwood · 2021-06-15 18:01:48

Dodge wrote:

Tarr/fug has been warned by Jason, maybe he will get some "time off" to think about what he did, probably not though knowing Jason...
Really weird on your part Destiny that your are defending this behaviour, you never know what type of person you're talking to with the anonymity but you can slowly paint a picture of who they are.
But anyway, case closed.

I don't think Destiny defended such behavior. Destiny just said that such didn't involve telling (or implying) that someone should commit suicide. That doesn't make such speech defensible, because it's not saying that it's not wrong in some other way. Defending someone's speech involves implying that such speech is acceptable and nothing (substantial at least) is wrong with it. I didn't find such an assertion on her part.

Dodge · 2021-06-15 19:10:49

Spoonwood wrote:

I don't think Destiny defended such behavior.

Well you're wrong, you struggle to understand basic social dynamics so you dont see it, or as Destiny would say "socially-challenged members".

I would suggest doing some research on the different factors that can affect brain function, from nutrition, various diseases, different chemical elements and just health in general, but that's just my two cents anyway...

selalov734 · 2021-06-15 20:04:54

Spoonwood please do not take Dodge serious, you are a great person and you are right by pointing out that destiny didn't defend tarr, destiny just tried to correct dodge incorrect interpretation of the situation.
It is obvious that dodges only reason for making this threat is to harm tarr because he doesn't like him.
Dodge tries to make look tarr as bad as possible and is not interested in portraying the situation correct.

Its also funny that he says things like that:

Dodge wrote:

Really weird on your part Destiny that your are defending this behaviour, you never know what type of person you're talking to with the anonymity but you can slowly paint a picture of who they are.

but spent the last few days defending someone like Villanelle2

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2021-06-14 10:14:38

Transphobic/harassment discrimination from moderator (fug/Tarr)?

#2 2021-06-14 11:17:39

Re: Transphobic/harassment discrimination from moderator (fug/Tarr)?

#3 2021-06-14 15:18:06

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#9 2021-06-14 18:09:28

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