Dear people,

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2020-12-01 16:48:30

I don't agree with many of Spoonwood's opinions but I still think he is nice and he is a good person. Just because you don't like someone's ideas or beliefs doesn't mean you need to attack them, or call them names, or be mean. We are all family here we are closer than you might think. If you go back 100 generations if there has been no inbreeding that number would be 1,267,650,600,228,229,401,496,703,205,376. As you know there is an estimation of 100 billion humans who have ever roamed earth. That means that many of us are closer together then you may think. We should care for each other and be kind to each other not cause drama and be negative. How would you like it if someone started throwing names and insults towards you or your family. It wouldn't feel good, so we should all be kind toward one another. <3

Dodge · 2020-12-01 18:01:50

You clearly neved had a conversation with Spoon, it has nothing to do with beliefs or ideas.

Pretty sure nobody insulted his family...

If you're trying to have a discussion with someone and you get hit with this:

Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk wrote:
I just want to build a road.
You said above:
NoTruePunk wrote:
Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.
So, I don't think you just want to build a road.

And that's just one example of Spooneries, if i said something completely absurd like this i would be expected to be called dumb or that what i'm saying is stupid, and i would understand and if i didn't, then i would try to understand why what i just said is considered stupid.

By making the effort to understand i become better for the future conversations i'm going to have and not keep repeating the same nonsense, at least that's what someone reasonnable should tell themselves.

Imagine you talked like this in real life, eventually people would get annoyed and stop talking to you, which is arguably more "mean" than telling you that what you're saying is dumb, since it is.

Also we're not talking about a small child, Spoonwood is an adultish person, who you speak to also matters, if it was a kid just being a kid saying kids things then it would be different.

It's much more cruel to leave someone in the dark and pretend to be nice to them because it's the "good thing to do".

DestinyCall · 2020-12-01 18:35:26

There are nice ways to tell someone that they are mistaken and there are mean ways. I believe Quirky's point is that we should avoid being mean and try to be compassionate and respectful in all our interactions.

It's not okay to call someone dumb or stupid, even if they piss you off or say something weird. Find better words. The English language is vast and multifarious.

If you find someone too frustrating or annoying to converse with in a civil manner, it is okay to take a step back and disengage. Don't fight and don't sling insults - you are better than that.

Eve Troll · 2020-12-01 18:47:15

Im more of the mindset to call someone's ideas or actions bad but not the person themselves. Though i prefer to explain my interpretation of the concept and why i think its bad instead of just calling it bad or telling the person they are bad for thinking it. If the individual has more points to justify their view all the better. Discourse and criticism only strengthens the resolve behind a thought and filters it into something more effective and marketable.

The whole point of these forums is to facilitate discourse. Sure it can get heated and sometimes folks resort to name calling and etc when they get frustrated but i agree we should have compassion for each other and do our best to foster ideas and the discussion surrounding them.

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2020-12-01 18:55:42

Dodge wrote:

You clearly neved had a conversation with Spoon, it has nothing to do with beliefs or ideas.
Pretty sure nobody insulted his family...
If you're trying to have a discussion with someone and you get hit with this:
Spoonwood wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:
I just want to build a road.
You said above:
NoTruePunk wrote:
Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.
So, I don't think you just want to build a road.
And that's just one example of Spooneries, if i said something completely absurd like this i would be expected to be called dumb or that what i'm saying is stupid, and i would understand and if i didn't, then i would try to understand why what i just said is considered stupid.
By making the effort to understand i become better for the future conversations i'm going to have and not keep repeating the same nonsense, at least that's what someone reasonnable should tell themselves.
Imagine you talked like this in real life, eventually people would get annoyed and stop talking to you, which is arguably more "mean" than telling you that what you're saying is dumb, since it is.
Also we're not talking about a small child, Spoonwood is an adultish person, who you speak to also matters, if it was a kid just being a kid saying kids things then it would be different.
It's much more cruel to leave someone in the dark and pretend to be nice to them because it's the "good thing to do".

Maybe he just likes to make jokes sometimes there is nothing wrong with having fun in life as long as its not rude towards others. Edit I think he might of been talking about the second quote that isn't even that much of a wild stretch the person literally said they want to do other things.

Last edited by QuirkySmirkyIan (2020-12-01 18:57:37)

Dodge · 2020-12-01 19:15:05

QuirkySmirkyIan wrote:

Maybe he just likes to make jokes sometimes there is nothing wrong with having fun in life as long as its not rude towards others. Edit I think he might of been talking about the second quote that isn't even that much of a wild stretch the person literally said they want to do other things.

That is definitly not a joke he's 100% serious when he says that type of things.

Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk wrote:
I just want to build a road.
You said above:
NoTruePunk wrote:
Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.
So, I don't think you just want to build a road.

Having that type of attitude of always arguing and wanting to be right in order to win some imaginary debate points creates a negative space where having a conversation and exchanging becomes more frustrating than engaging or interesting.

" Edit I think he might of been talking about the second quote that isn't even that much of a wild stretch the person literally said they want to do other things."

Oh no dont tell me that you dont see what the issue is there and that you actually agree with him.

By Spoonwood's logic when someone says "I just want to build a road" it means you literally just want to build a road, you dont want to eat, dont want to sleep etc.

Then you get served that argument "So, I don't think you just want to build a road." ...

Eve Troll · 2020-12-01 19:30:34

No need to knit pick. We all have issues and opinions about each other. If we didnt there would be something wrong. Its just part of being human to agree and disagree, argue and hold grudges. That being said i dont think personal problems with individuals are an appropriate subject to discuss on the forums. We all make mistakes, we all can misinterpret things, and we can all be a bit bull headed sometimes. The important thing is not to let it get in the way of the goal of these forums. To discuss and work through concepts, ideas, and thoughts. Sure things can get disruptive sometimes but in those moments its best to try and steer things back on track rather than promote an argument. Rabbit holes can be fun but ones that lead no where and just upset people would be best to avoid.

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-12-01 19:31:04)

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2020-12-01 20:16:46

Eve Troll wrote:

No need to knit pick. We all have issues and opinions about each other. If we didnt there would be something wrong. Its just part of being human to agree and disagree, argue and hold grudges. That being said i dont think personal problems with individuals are an appropriate subject to discuss on the forums. We all make mistakes, we all can misinterpret things, and we can all be a bit bull headed sometimes. The important thing is not to let it get in the way of the goal of these forums. To discuss and work through concepts, ideas, and thoughts. Sure things can get disruptive sometimes but in those moments its best to try and steer things back on track rather than promote an argument. Rabbit holes can be fun but ones that lead no where and just upset people would be best to avoid.

+1

Dodge · 2020-12-01 20:27:10

Agreed post like this one having a single individual as subject have no place on this forum.

"I don't agree with many of Spoonwood's opinions but I still think he is nice and he is a good person."

This part should have been left out.

Mentionning a specific user instead of making a broader statement without mentionnig anyone specifically was out of place.

DestinyCall · 2020-12-01 21:37:47

Posts that attack an individual's character or behavior are not cool, but I fail to see why having a single user as your subject would be an issue, as long as you are being respectful. For example, you might address an apology to someone you wronged or need to ask someone a question about something they said or tell a story about a shared game experience, or reference earlier conversations to explain your point. There are many benign ways that you can post about specific people without crossing any lines. It is okay to talking about each other or share our opinions of each other, occasionally. We just need to make an effort to do it in a way that moves the conversation forward.

...

It's also worth pointing out that Quirky's post was not criticizing or calling out one user for bad behavior. It IS a broader statement, directed at people who attack or are mean toward Spoonwood, and by extension, those people who might do the same thing to others in our forum family. It doesn't point to any specific person.

I assume he was prompted to make this post after reading some of the negative posts directed toward Spoon lately, like Gogo's "review". I would agree that personal attacks have no place on this forum as they are not helpful or good for the community. But I can see nothing wrong with Quirky's post.

Spoonwood · 2020-12-01 21:39:16

Dodge wrote:

...

Alright Dodge, you said it's fine to call people dumb when saying absurd things. So, now I get to use your own standards, including applying them to you. That already might be dumb, since it leaves you vulnerable to personal attack.

NoTruePunk said that sometimes he wants to do other things in game than build a road. He also said that he just wanted to build a road in game. It's dumb to say that pointing out that contradiction is meaningless. Because pointing out such a contradiction reveals the falsity in what got asserted, when a falsity did get asserted. We need to recognize falsity as falsity and truth as truth in order to get smart, and that is not always the easiest thing to do. And in order to be or get smart we have to recognize truth, and we can't recognize truth without recognizing falsity also.

There might be other examples of me making a mistake like you accuse me of. But, it's dumb that you would suggest that pointing out contradictions is dumb using that example, when apparently the author didn't recognize the contradiction their own self, or take such a contradiction seriously. And it's stupid that you apparently want to go around and try to get people's opinions cavalierly dismissed by others by calling them stupid. As an adult, other adults will recognize that as some sort of psychological trick in many cases. Those who have an open mind won't fall for that sort of talk very often. They'll think you're more interested in insulting people instead of trying to work things through to discover the truth, or to get something done.

Dodge · 2020-12-01 21:55:04

Spoonwood wrote:

...

Here is the original full text:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I'm seriously sick of you hijacking every thread, spoon. I'm not interested in deliberating over the definition of a "generation", the relative merits or moral appropriateness of resettling villages or moving resources from dead towns. I don't care about children of men or your "no vision" rants.
I just want to build a road.

It's clear to everyone with an ounce of common sense that in that context "i just want to build a road" means that this person is annoyed at you hijacking the thread and turning into something that isn't what the author of the topic want's to talk about.

In other words "i just want to build a road" could be translated by "i want this topic to be about actually building roads and not a talk about the impact of road building"

But you took it literally as if that person only wants to build roads all the time everywhere.

Nota bene: in the previous sentence "everywhere" doesnt meant literally eveywhere but serves as an emphasis of the exageration.

Thinking that there is any sort of contradiction is dumb since that person didn't mean literally that they only want to build roads.

Learn to read between the lines.

Cantface · 2020-12-01 22:17:26

I'm pretty sure I've had a disagreement with spoon but it didn't devolve into name-calling or hateful comments it remained a discussion. We should learn from Spoon, they don't need to use an insulting tone to prove a point.

Eve Troll · 2020-12-01 22:49:41

Feud: Spoon & Dodge

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-12-01 22:51:43)

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2020-12-01 23:29:42

DestinyCall wrote:

Posts that attack an individual's character or behavior are not cool, but I fail to see why having a single user as your subject would be an issue, as long as you are being respectful. For example, you might address an apology to someone you wronged or need to ask someone a question about something they said or tell a story about a shared game experience, or reference earlier conversations to explain your point. There are many benign ways that you can post about specific people without crossing any lines. It is okay to talking about each other or share our opinions of each other, occasionally. We just need to make an effort to do it in a way that moves the conversation forward.
...

It's also worth pointing out that Quirky's post was not criticizing or calling out one user for bad behavior. It IS a broader statement, directed at people who attack or are mean toward Spoonwood, and by extension, those people who might do the same thing to others in our forum family. It doesn't point to any specific person.
I assume he was prompted to make this post after reading some of the negative posts directed toward Spoon lately, like Gogo's "review". I would agree that personal attacks have no place on this forum as they are not helpful or good for the community. But I can see nothing wrong with Quirky's post.

Cantface wrote:

I'm pretty sure I've had a disagreement with spoon but it didn't devolve into name-calling or hateful comments it remained a discussion. We should learn from Spoon, they don't need to use an insulting tone to prove a point.

These posts are perfect and illustrate my points in greater detail. Good job!

Cogito · 2020-12-02 00:27:10

I value the thoughts and ideas that people like Spoon bring to the community, and I have personally noticed Spoon becoming better at communicating those ideas.

I personally love a good debate, but unfortunately there are too many bad debates.

Too many conversations that devolve into a high-school 'debate', a kind of sporting competition where it's more important to score points than understand each other.

Instead we should always strive towards 'scholarly' debates, where the primary goal is to understand what the other person is trying to communicate; one of the greatest joys in the world is the realisation that other people have thoughts and ideas that you would never have on your own, and that you can enrich yourself by incorporating those ideas into your own world view.

If you care about avoiding 'point scoring' debates the best thing you can do is make sure you understand the other person's point of view before arguing against it. I find it useful to try and restate what I think the other person is saying, in my own words, before stating why I disagree with it. This can be tricky (the person may think you're weakening their position, for example), but if you both approach the conversation from trying to understand each other it is a lot easier to get to the point where you understand each other's view.

Spoonwood · 2020-12-02 00:46:49

Dodge wrote:

But you took it literally as if that person only wants to build roads all the time everywhere.
Nota bene: in the previous sentence "everywhere" doesnt meant literally eveywhere but serves as an emphasis of the exageration.

That doesn't work even as an exaggeration. The vast majority of places on the map do not and will not have roads. I don't believe that Punk would want to build them in most places.

Dodge wrote:

Thinking that there is any sort of contradiction is dumb since that person didn't mean literally that they only want to build roads.

Punk clearly expresses his displeasure with me there. I think he wanted to say how he was upset. I mean, I think his name is some sort of reference to punk culture of a positive sort. And maybe I misunderstand, but I think in punk culture, people take pride in expressing how they are upset. This reddit thread suggest such: https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/comments/ … u_know_of/ I don't mind Punk expressing how he was upset/angry (if that's how he felt). But, it's more than just a desire to build a road.

And for those who don't know, it's NoTruePunk.

Spoonwood · 2020-12-02 00:48:18

Cogito wrote:

I value the thoughts and ideas that people like Spoon bring to the community, and I have personally noticed Spoon becoming better at communicating those ideas.
I personally love a good debate, but unfortunately there are too many bad debates.
Too many conversations that devolve into a high-school 'debate', a kind of sporting competition where it's more important to score points than understand each other.
Instead we should always strive towards 'scholarly' debates, where the primary goal is to understand what the other person is trying to communicate; one of the greatest joys in the world is the realisation that other people have thoughts and ideas that you would never have on your own, and that you can enrich yourself by incorporating those ideas into your own world view.
If you care about avoiding 'point scoring' debates the best thing you can do is make sure you understand the other person's point of view before arguing against it. I find it useful to try and restate what I think the other person is saying, in my own words, before stating why I disagree with it. This can be tricky (the person may think you're weakening their position, for example), but if you both approach the conversation from trying to understand each other it is a lot easier to get to the point where you understand each other's view.

Yes!

Dodge · 2020-12-02 06:35:48

Dodge wrote:

But you took it literally as if that person only wants to build roads all the time everywhere.
Nota bene: in the previous sentence "everywhere" doesnt meant literally eveywhere but serves as an emphasis of the exageration.

Spoonwood wrote:

That doesn't work even as an exaggeration. The vast majority of places on the map do not and will not have roads. I don't believe that Punk would want to build them in most places.

That's the point, when i say everywhere it doesn't literally mean everywhere as in EVERY TILE IN THE GAME

But you took what punk said literally instead of understanding what he really meant.

Dodge wrote:

Thinking that there is any sort of contradiction is dumb since that person didn't mean literally that they only want to build roads.

Spoonwood wrote:

Punk clearly expresses his displeasure with me there. I think he wanted to say how he was upset. I mean, I think his name is some sort of reference to punk culture of a positive sort. And maybe I misunderstand, but I think in punk culture, people take pride in expressing how they are upset. This reddit thread suggest such: https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/comments/ … u_know_of/ I don't mind Punk expressing how he was upset/angry (if that's how he felt). But, it's more than just a desire to build a road.
And for those who don't know, it's NoTruePunk.

What even is your point saying that?

We already established that there is no contradiction since he didn't literally meant that all he want to do is build roads all the time every game, the dumb part on you was mentionning that there was some sort of contradiction which was completely absurd since his sentence "I just want to build a road." clearly didn't mean that all he wants to do is build roads all the time but that he wanted to keep the topic about road building.

Picture someone eating a sandwich minding their own business and you start talking to them about how eating sandwiches contributes to global warming and the downfall of the economy, they then proceed to tell you:

"I dont care about that, leave me alone, I just want to eat a sandwich"

Did that person really meant that they arent going to also drink or sleep and they are going to dedicate their life to only eat sandwiches?

No, in that context it obviously means that they want to eat that sandwich in peace and not be bothered by someone telling them about the impact of eating a sandwich.

Spoonwood · 2020-12-02 10:13:11

Dodge wrote:

That's the point, when i say everywhere it doesn't literally mean everywhere as in EVERY TILE IN THE GAME
But you took what punk said literally instead of understanding what he really meant.

Alright, again you said:

Dodge wrote:

But you took it literally as if that person only wants to build roads all the time everywhere.

But, I made no reference whatsoever to the number of tiles built on the map. You're the one who has introduced that irrelevancy here which I didn't, to my recollection, talk about. Punk brought up the frequency of road building that he desired to do in the original post. That doesn't concern location. It's pretty stupid to confuse time and space Dodge. It's stupid to talk about building roads "everywhere", when most places on the map simply won't have such.

Dodge wrote:

What even is your point saying that?

My intuition indicated that something was off with Punk saying "I just want to build a road". The context of that statement comes as what he said previously, of course. Maybe I would have done better to pick up on him wanting to express his emotions in that comment sooner.

Dodge wrote:

We already established that there is no contradiction since he didn't literally meant that all he want to do is build roads all the time every game ...

I certainly didn't agree to no contradiction existing there Dodge, and don't retract my previous statement either. So, no, *we* did NOT establish such. It's stupid to use 'we', when the other person or people even might not agree with you.

Dodge wrote:

the dumb part on you was mentionning that there was some sort of contradiction which was completely absurd since his sentence "I just want to build a road." clearly didn't mean that all he wants to do is build roads all the time but that he wanted to keep the topic about road building.

The literal interpretation of words comes as the preferred one when there exists any doubt with respect to the meaning of those words. Since Punk was expressing his emotions mostly in that comment, there exists plenty of reason to doubt what he said with respect to its meaning, in my opinion. So, the literal interpretation had a logic to it. And from that it follows it is not the case the he *clearly* didn't mean that all he wanted to do was to build a road. It's just plain dumb to use the words 'clearly', 'obviously', and the like when things just aren't necessarily straightforward.

Dodge wrote:

Picture someone eating a sandwich minding their own business and you start talking to them about how eating sandwiches contributes to global warming and the downfall of the economy, they then proceed to tell you:
"I dont care about that, leave me alone, I just want to eat a sandwich"

Dumb analogy Dodge. Punk was saying he did NOT want to build a road in all of his OHOL lives in the original post and wanted help. He thus isn't comparable to a person eating a sandwich, because he was seeking to NOT engage in that activity sometimes by making that post. A person eating a sandwich on the other hand is trying to eat a sandwich, usually, of course. Positive action and avoidance of action aren't the same thing.

Dodge wrote:

No, in that context it obviously means that they want to eat that sandwich in peace and not be bothered by someone telling them about the impact of eating a sandwich.

This has to be the dumbest thing you've said in this thread Dodge. Punk ended up starving out several babies by not feeding them, possibly when out building the road. Leaving him in peace about building the road, it turns out and perhaps I'm lucky on this one, would thus have been a bad idea. To Punk's credit, he seems to have honestly acknowledged that he made a mistake there. Perhaps he was able to do so, because I had that conversation with him beforehand. Perhaps not though, and I flatter myself here.

Dodge · 2020-12-02 10:18:09

Spoonwood i'm done this is getting dense.

"My intuition indicated that something was off with Punk saying "I just want to build a road". "

Should have followed your intuition it was correct since he didn't mean it literally.

jord1990 · 2020-12-02 17:41:14

Remember to play nice, Thank you.

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-12-02 18:49:33

jord1990 wrote:

Remember to play nice, Thank you.

Where's my boost Jord

Arcurus · 2020-12-02 21:40:58

jord1990 wrote:

Remember to play nice, Thank you.

What we have an active moderator? Since when?

Am I in an alternative universe?

Or by accident in the two hours one life forum (if they have)?

Or did Jason suddenly activate GTP3 to act as moderator?

Or....

Confused, my view of the world crashed...

NoTruePunk · 2020-12-03 12:29:25

What I meant when I said "I just want to build the road" was that I want the road built, and yes in the context of the thread I was asking for help.

Sorry if I'm too harsh on you spoon, I do appreciate you and I hope you don't take it too personally. You're right about punk culture I suppose, it's fun to get mad sometimes. I'll be sure and be upset in a socially acceptable, undisruptive way from now on ^-^

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-12-01 16:48:30

Dear people,

#2 2020-12-01 18:01:50

Re: Dear people,

#3 2020-12-01 18:35:26

Re: Dear people,

#4 2020-12-01 18:47:15

Re: Dear people,

#5 2020-12-01 18:55:42

Re: Dear people,

#6 2020-12-01 19:15:05

Re: Dear people,

#7 2020-12-01 19:30:34

Re: Dear people,

#8 2020-12-01 20:16:46

Re: Dear people,

#9 2020-12-01 20:27:10

Re: Dear people,

#10 2020-12-01 21:37:47

Re: Dear people,

#11 2020-12-01 21:39:16

Re: Dear people,

#12 2020-12-01 21:55:04

Re: Dear people,

#13 2020-12-01 22:17:26

Re: Dear people,

#14 2020-12-01 22:49:41

Re: Dear people,

#15 2020-12-01 23:29:42

Re: Dear people,

#16 2020-12-02 00:27:10

Re: Dear people,

#17 2020-12-02 00:46:49

Re: Dear people,

#18 2020-12-02 00:48:18

Re: Dear people,

#19 2020-12-02 06:35:48

Re: Dear people,

#20 2020-12-02 10:13:11

Re: Dear people,

#21 2020-12-02 10:18:09

Re: Dear people,

#22 2020-12-02 17:41:14

Re: Dear people,

#23 2020-12-02 18:49:33

Re: Dear people,

#24 2020-12-02 21:40:58

Re: Dear people,

#25 2020-12-03 12:29:25

Re: Dear people,

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