Why does no one use property fencing for its intended purpose?

Chestburster · 2020-10-30 00:22:30

With the more recent updates to property fencing I don't understand why people don't fence their villages and why they see doing so as a form of griefing.

It is at very least well justified to try and do this even if it is accepted that property fences are a poorly implemented mechanic for some reason because you would be using the item for the purpose intended. But I can't see any of the downsides and I haven't been able to get anyone in the game to explain them to me personally. I'm hoping someone here can tell me.

I see so many problems happening in game that could be solved by property fencing if it was used correctly. People from outside villages come in sometimes and steal things like carts and trucks. People lock diesel engines in small property fenced areas because they are stealable when attached to certain things like wells and need to be moved back and forth because of this. Exiled people are free to steal a cart or truck full of items and harass the village from the outskirts just to spite everyone because they don't get locked into the area to be deal with.

The only thing I've heard from people is that it impedes movement but this doesn't make sense to me. Allied gates should allow basically anyone to walk through them in your family while also locking for exiles. Boxes can be put on the property fence lines that can be accessed from both sides which would be great to set up a clear selection of items to be traded to outsiders and allow them to add in their own without giving everyone free reign to everything in your villages.

If I'm missing anything let me know but at this point I can't see any reason for why we don't use them.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-30 00:58:04

Chestburster wrote:

With the more recent updates to property fencing I don't understand why people don't fence their villages and why they see doing so as a form of griefing.

Why would you want to make it more difficult for someone bringing your town kerosene, latex, palm oil, sulfur, cactus fruits, bananas, etc.?

Also, property gates can get blocked off from the outside.

Elder removal if property fences get blocked? Has that ever felt convenient?

There do exist advanced designs which resolves the blocking problem for a fortress. But, they are time consuming and resource consuming, so I'm uncertain that they would be likely to appear on a mediumly populated server, if known, and I'm not so sure that all that many veteran bs2 players know about such designs. They don't also involve gates or doors, well... not in conventional ways from what I've seen, because single exit points are simple in concept to block off.

Chestburster wrote:

Allied gates should allow basically anyone to walk through them in your family while also locking for exiles.

The name got changed to follower gates. Anyone can declare their self a follower of someone else by text command. Person comes in the follower gate and steals a truck before even getting noticed. How do ally gates solve things here?

DestinyCall · 2020-10-30 00:59:36

Have you tried building and maintaining a fence around your village lately?

I haven't done it since the Rift, but my memories of the experience are not favorable.

Cogito · 2020-10-30 04:53:46

Note that the recent change that makes fences last for 2 hours (up from 1 hour) may impact this.

I think the answer to your question is that it hasn't become meta, and there are a few reasons it has not become meta.

Like almost all meta changes, there is inertia that makes it so existing strategies persist. Case in point: fields and fields of 3x3 of berry bushes. Even if a patch makes fencing the town an obviously optimal strategy, it will take time for it to become common.
Fences require maintenance. With the change to 2 hours decay from 1 hour this is less of an issue, but town encircling fences are big so maintaining them becomes difficult.
There is no well-established pattern for how large the fence should be, and where it should be placed. This means that placing the fence in the first place requires significant planning and understanding, so people won't even bother. For example, should iron mines be included? What if there are multiple iron mines very far out? Should I leave enough room for the smithy to expand? Where will future buildings be built?
Small property fences achieve a lot of the goals a large fence would achieve and are easier to plan, build and maintain; for example, securing valuable resources, and providing a safe place during a bear attack.
Fences introduce friction (even if has been improved) that make it less likely for your family to survive - as wandering members of other families are less able to help your town, and you are less able to visit another family who have a fenced town to gather required supplies.

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-10-30 06:20:09

We have to work together now. Putting walls up doesn't allow that.

Were you the person named Jason killed for trying to encase the ginger town yesterday? If so, we caught you bringing bears into town in that town, as well as the brown town.

Last edited by DiscardedSlinky (2020-10-30 06:21:26)

Chestburster · 2020-10-30 08:00:47

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

We have to work together now. Putting walls up doesn't allow that.
Were you the person named Jason killed for trying to encase the ginger town yesterday? If so, we caught you bringing bears into town in that town, as well as the brown town.

No I wasn't and that isn't at all what is being talked about here. I don't want this to devolve into another thread where people argue with griefers over things that happened in-game so please go have that discussion somewhere else if you need to and stay on topic here.

The whole "We have to work together" thing pretty much sums up the vague inexplicable reasoning of the general consensus here for why walling off towns is a bad thing and is pretty much the thought process behind most people adhering to the current meta. Property fences are kind of seen as the big bad cold wall being put in place impeding the warmth of community and friendship that should be encouraged at all times between families in this game. This isn't really being shown through actual current gameplay though despite what the meta says, because teamwork is mostly done with your own family, and happens with other families really only with things they trade. It also seems like people are stealing things as often as trading at certain points.

The two way property fence boxes would likely make trading much easier because they would encourage a place where items were clearly meant to enter and and leave the village. It would make it much easier for the families coming in to find the place where the items that are meant for them to take are located and the family themselves to see where the items that were given in return to them are.

The whole thing with allied gates allowing people to simply just follow you and enter is an issue I haven't thought of and definitely needs to be fixed. It still doesn't make anything worse off though. At the worst people can simply enter your village freely like they normally would. But that would still allow for penning exiles and keeping out people who weren't aware that they could do this, while also still having that clear mark for imports and exports property fence boxes provide.

The issue with blocking off fences is yet another problem in this game where the issue is griefing. I don't think you'd see it too often. Villages would always have multiple fence gates allowing others to come out and fix it and form a posse. It's a similar case to not wanting the murder mechanic in the game because of potential griefing. It's yet another mechanic that fixes things with griefing but may occasionally cause grief itself. The pros should outweigh the cons here.

The only one here who has really brought up any kind of decent argument against the idea in my opinion and also didn't just repeat points that I've already addressed was Cogito, who I feel may be right on certain things like the fences causing friction but I feel like it's worth it to try something new. I think we should allow at least some villages to be fenced off to try to see if its worth changing it to the current meta.

Last edited by Chestburster (2020-10-30 12:05:38)

NoTruePunk · 2020-10-30 10:37:19

DestinyCall wrote:

Have you tried building and maintaining a fence around your village lately?
I haven't done it since the Rift, but my memories of the experience are not favorable.

The decay time for fences have been increased, though I'm not sure how long. I'll have to check.

Arcurus · 2020-10-30 11:14:30

Cogito wrote:

[*]Fences require maintenance. With the change to 2 hours decay from 1 hour this is less of an issue, but town encircling fences are big so maintaining them becomes difficult.[/*]

yes, see this also as one of the biggest problems. Dont know if 2 hours (in total 4 since the rickety state is also there) is now enough to give a bigger fence a chance. At least its double as good maintenance wise as before. I suggested to Jason to switch to a concept where by default fences wont decay, but you can attack them with sharp stone and then remove after lets say 5 min. The nearest gate owner would get an message that an attack is happening. This would allow some kind of siege, would remove the need of maintenance, and would allow them to be removed more easily if no one defends them. For sure the concept would more thinking...

Cogito wrote:

[*]Fences introduce friction (even if has been improved) that make it less likely for your family to survive - as wandering members of other families are less able to help your town, and you are less able to visit another family who have a fenced town to gather required supplies.[/*]

I think this is not that big problem with follower gates. Compared to with normal gates with follower gates visitors can enter the village by following the owner.
Since this update the owner is informed about the new follower, so he can decide what to do with him:

"When an outsider (non family member) follows you, who you haven't exiled yet, you get a notice about it and an arrow pointing toward them. A visitor to your follower gate can see your name and follow you to come through your gate, so now you get a notice that they've done this, and you can go to deal with them if needed."

This sounds like an interesting concept, to be open by default, but still have some kind of protection against new people coming.
For sure the system is not perfekt yet, like an option for the leader to allow / disallow new flowers would be great to have. But its a step in the right direction.

In the end it comes down to pros of fenced villages vs cons of fenced villages.

One main thing is, that most of the time you wont need fences, since you only need them when there is an griefer / attacker.

Currently the ultimate to take care of any kind of attackers is to simply curse them. So cursing them is lot more efficient to take care of them then fencing the village might be. Of course fencing the village could help too, since once exiled they are stopped at once, but has some cons, it needs some maintenance and blocks movement. With enough follower gates later should not be that big issue.

And then there is as mentioned the cooperative feeling that might change if the village is fenced. The only time i tried out fences / follower gates after they where implemented i got cursed for doing so (without giving me any chance of responding), even if i gave tons of space and tons of ally gates. I think in one life its possible to fence half of the village with enough gates and enough space.

A big problem is, that people have also the old concept of fences in their had with the old gates vs the new ones, which behave totally different.
With being able to block the gates, dont know if this is a big issue if there are enough gates?

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-10-30 11:24:20)

Arcurus · 2020-10-30 11:15:52

NoTruePunk wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
Have you tried building and maintaining a fence around your village lately?
I haven't done it since the Rift, but my memories of the experience are not favorable.
The decay time for fences have been increased, though I'm not sure how long. I'll have to check.

they are doubled from 1 hour to 2 hours both for property fence and the rickety fence, so you have now total 4 hours instead of 2 hours of protection and 2 hours instead of one hour to repair.

miskas · 2020-10-30 13:15:03

What's the intended purpose of the Property fence?

You can not steal something that is not owned.
Everything out of a fence is owned by the players of the Server.
Comming as ginger and taking a horse from the black isn't stealing, this horse maybe even be tamed by yourself in your previous life so why bother to contain it in a fence that you will not be able to access later?

You are not attached to your property, neither to a family's property so why store your lifework products in another's property.
properties are useful only if you need something for the next 40-50 minutes. And It's probably better for you to return it to the community of the whole Server after.

I guess you propose to fence items so we can exile griefers efficiently, Too much work just mass curse them once and you build a fenced on the whole server for 90 days.
Whenever you make a fence you exile your future self.

An idea would be to RP ourselves and make fences in All cities and then demand goods to give out our goods. It would be highly inefficient but it might be fun.

Last edited by miskas (2020-10-30 13:32:01)

Spoonwood · 2020-10-30 13:39:32

Chestburster wrote:

The two way property fence boxes would likely make trading much easier because they would encourage a place where items were clearly meant to enter and and leave the village. It would make it much easier for the families coming in to find the place where the items that are meant for them to take are located and the family themselves to see where the items that were given in return to them are.

Such boxes cost rope and only have 4 spaces, which even with a few of them is less than what a traveler can bring in a truck or horsecart. And, of course, there's more that gives moved around than just bowls of sulfur, bowls of palm oil, and buckets of latex that gets moved around. Why should rope go to such boxes instead of buckets, carts, boxes in the kitchen, boxes in the nursery, and lassos?

Also, such boxes cost butt logs. It doesn't seem hard to find villages where finding two butt logs for wooden shoes can take a bit. Players will continue to use wooden flooring for nursery floors and kitchen floors, even if I could convince some of them to make such floors AFTER getting their self and maybe others shoes. And butt logs for buckets and carts. And for boxes in the kitchen and nursery, and elsewhere. Why should butt logs go to those property fence boxes instead of those other things, especially when butt log production sometimes, and probably even usually, involves hungry work?

Gifting and/or looting also can achieve the same effect as such theoretical trade, and time is short.

Sure, someone might steal a cart from your village. And I believe you when you say you've seen such happen. But, if one of the members of your family in a previous generation stole a cart or a set of objects of equivalent value from another village, things might balance out. Or if one of the future members of your family steals from that family also, things might balance out. Two-way theft is only bad for the entire history of your village when it's a net loss over time. It's not a loss if levels of stealing between villages equal out. And it's not much of a loss if the levels of stealing are kind of close to each other.

Chestburster wrote:

The whole thing with allied gates allowing people to simply just follow you and enter is an issue I haven't thought of and definitely needs to be fixed.

I will say that I haven't tested that "I follow X" to get access to a follower gate, when not being a follower, myself. But, there is this:

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yes, will change the name of the object to "Follower Gate".
The fact that anyone can follow you is kinda part of the point. People can go in and out freely, but you can exile people to stop them. I mean, someone can be born into your town too, and they will auto-follow you.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/688

Spoonwood · 2020-10-30 13:45:43

miskas wrote:

What's the intended purpose of the Property fence?
You can not steal something that is not owned.
Everything out of a fence is owned by the players of the Server.
Comming as ginger and taking a horse from the black isn't stealing, this horse maybe even be tamed by yourself in your previous life so why bother to contain it in a fence that you will not be able to access later?
You are not attached to your property, neither to a family's property so why store your lifework products in another's property.
properties are useful only if you need something for the next 40-50 minutes. And It's probably better for you to return it to the community of the whole Server after.

I guess you propose to fence items so we can exile griefers efficiently, Too much work just mass curse them once and you build a fenced on the whole server for 90 days.
Whenever you make a fence you exile your future self.
An idea would be to RP ourselves and make fences in All cities and then demand goods to give out our goods. It would be highly inefficient but it might be fun.

Good points here also.

Arcurus · 2020-10-30 13:58:40

miskas wrote:

What's the intended purpose of the Property fence?
You can not steal something that is not owned.
Everything out of a fence is owned by the players of the Server.
Comming as ginger and taking a horse from the black isn't stealing, this horse maybe even be tamed by yourself in your previous life so why bother to contain it in a fence that you will not be able to access later?
You are not attached to your property, neither to a family's property so why store your lifework products in another's property.
properties are useful only if you need something for the next 40-50 minutes. And It's probably better for you to return it to the community of the whole Server after.

I guess you propose to fence items so we can exile griefers efficiently, Too much work just mass curse them once and you build a fenced on the whole server for 90 days.
Whenever you make a fence you exile your future self.
An idea would be to RP ourselves and make fences in All cities and then demand goods to give out our goods. It would be highly inefficient but it might be fun.

yea, thats the thing, since there is even a less chance to play in the same village as last life and fence which protects against outsiders actually protects against you...

so under the current birth conditions fences make only sense to protect against griefers. And as said here the most powerful protection are curses. The only thing an fence can do is to restrict the movement of a griefer once exiled. This comes with the cost of building and maintaining the fence.

So it comes basically downs to benefit of limit movement of exiled griefers / bear attacks vs maintenance and movement friction of fence.

This balance would most likely shift drastically if you are birth / score wise more connected to the family legacy.

Also in my opinion curses should not be the ultimate to protect against outsiders.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-10-30 14:00:44)

DestinyCall · 2020-10-30 14:02:46

Spoonwood wrote:

miskas wrote:
What's the intended purpose of the Property fence?
You can not steal something that is not owned.
Everything out of a fence is owned by the players of the Server.
Comming as ginger and taking a horse from the black isn't stealing, this horse maybe even be tamed by yourself in your previous life so why bother to contain it in a fence that you will not be able to access later?
You are not attached to your property, neither to a family's property so why store your lifework products in another's property.
properties are useful only if you need something for the next 40-50 minutes. And It's probably better for you to return it to the community of the whole Server after.

I guess you propose to fence items so we can exile griefers efficiently, Too much work just mass curse them once and you build a fenced on the whole server for 90 days.
Whenever you make a fence you exile your future self.
An idea would be to RP ourselves and make fences in All cities and then demand goods to give out our goods. It would be highly inefficient but it might be fun.
Good points here also.

Quoted for emphasis.

ollj · 2020-10-30 14:29:17

the fenches are always a waste of time.

the intended purpose was, to lure more than 5 bears at once, and more like 10, while safely standing on a line of unbuild fenches.
but that is no longer works.

now the remaining purpose is to make a zoo of humans, in their fenched areas, guarded by bears.

Chestburster · 2020-10-30 16:32:15

DestinyCall wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
miskas wrote:
What's the intended purpose of the Property fence?
You can not steal something that is not owned.
Everything out of a fence is owned by the players of the Server.
Comming as ginger and taking a horse from the black isn't stealing, this horse maybe even be tamed by yourself in your previous life so why bother to contain it in a fence that you will not be able to access later?
You are not attached to your property, neither to a family's property so why store your lifework products in another's property.
properties are useful only if you need something for the next 40-50 minutes. And It's probably better for you to return it to the community of the whole Server after.

I guess you propose to fence items so we can exile griefers efficiently, Too much work just mass curse them once and you build a fenced on the whole server for 90 days.
Whenever you make a fence you exile your future self.
An idea would be to RP ourselves and make fences in All cities and then demand goods to give out our goods. It would be highly inefficient but it might be fun.
Good points here also.
Quoted for emphasis.

I've never seen anyone in-game with the mindset that taking things from villages isn't stealing. Maybe people wouldn't mind a horse stolen if they are overflowing with horses, but stealing the only delivery truck or horse from a village definitely would make most people angry.

I've never taken anything back from a village that I made in a previous life because all the work I do is to help the village I'm a part of. The whole style of the game is that each life is separate from the others This is why you don't ever respawn at the same family. Not leaving the work from your life to the village kind of defeats thus purpose. If you do this then you aren't really playing the game for anyone but yourself, because that cart wasn't made for the village, it was made for you. If you want your own personal cart for yourself then fence it in somewhere private. If you want to see how many others feel the same way you do, then just go up to any village in the game where an item is important to them and take it from them for yourself with them knowing. Almost everyone will hate you for it. If you think the general consensus is that things are free for all then you haven't played this game much or haven't thought about this correctly. The points you made simply aren't there and this is not a good argument.

Spoonwood wrote:

Such boxes cost rope and only have 4 spaces, which even with a few of them is less than what a traveler can bring in a truck or horsecart. And, of course, there's more that gives moved around than just bowls of sulfur, bowls of palm oil, and buckets of latex that gets moved around. Why should rope go to such boxes instead of buckets, carts, boxes in the kitchen, boxes in the nursery, and lassos?
Also, such boxes cost butt logs. It doesn't seem hard to find villages where finding two butt logs for wooden shoes can take a bit. Players will continue to use wooden flooring for nursery floors and kitchen floors, even if I could convince some of them to make such floors AFTER getting their self and maybe others shoes. And butt logs for buckets and carts. And for boxes in the kitchen and nursery, and elsewhere. Why should butt logs go to those property fence boxes instead of those other things, especially when butt log production sometimes, and probably even usually, involves hungry work?

Butt logs are extraordinarily abundant and easy to obtain and trees are everywhere. You just said this yourself by the fact that people are using them for floors but you still think it's a waste to build like 10 boxes at the very most? 10 rope is also very easy to get. Remember that there is only a select group of items that need to be traded and if the boxes are full that means they aren't needed because they aren't being used. The logic here is poor and contradictory, and there isn't really an argument.

Spoonwood wrote:

Chestburster wrote:
The whole thing with allied gates allowing people to simply just follow you and enter is an issue I haven't thought of and definitely needs to be fixed.
I will say that I haven't tested that "I follow X" to get access to a follower gate, when not being a follower, myself. But, there is this:
jasonrohrer wrote:
Yes, will change the name of the object to "Follower Gate".
The fact that anyone can follow you is kinda part of the point. People can go in and out freely, but you can exile people to stop them. I mean, someone can be born into your town too, and they will auto-follow you.
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/688

These are pretty good reasons for why they'd be useful. Thanks for sharing.

Arcurus wrote:

so under the current birth conditions fences make only sense to protect against griefers. And as said here the most powerful protection are curses. The only thing an fence can do is to restrict the movement of a griefer once exiled. This comes with the cost of building and maintaining the fence.
So it comes basically downs to benefit of limit movement of exiled griefers / bear attacks vs maintenance and movement friction of fence.
This balance would most likely shift drastically if you are birth / score wise more connected to the family legacy.

The inability to maintain fences is a decent reason for why they may be flawed. But I don't think this is any reason to prevent their use in entirety and not at least try them. You aren't any worse off if a fence decays as it just allows the same freedom as before, and it's easy to put them back up

ollj wrote:

the fenches are always a waste of time.
the intended purpose was, to lure more than 5 bears at once, and more like 10, while safely standing on a line of unbuild fenches.
but that is no longer works.
now the remaining purpose is to make a zoo of humans, in their fenched areas, guarded by bears.

No.

Last edited by Chestburster (2020-10-30 17:08:50)

Spoonwood · 2020-10-30 16:43:17

Chestburster wrote:

The whole style of the game is that each life is separate from the others, this is why you don't ever respawn at the same family.

I remember playing as Eve Volek this past winter http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5840080. Next time I logged in, I was one of my descendants and I did not use /die. It also doesn't take that many lives to cycle back to the same family if one's first family stays alive.

Chestburster · 2020-10-30 16:50:22

Spoonwood wrote:

Chestburster wrote:
The whole style of the game is that each life is separate from the others, this is why you don't ever respawn at the same family.
I remember playing as Eve Volek this past winter http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5840080. Next time I logged in, I was one of my descendants and I did not use /die. It also doesn't take that many lives to cycle back to the same family if one's first family stays alive.

An exception to the game's normal playstyle you had awhile back doesn't change the intended style of the game. This should be pretty obvious so I don't know why you are giving me all this info.

Last edited by Chestburster (2020-10-30 17:01:48)

Spoonwood · 2020-10-30 19:39:43

Chestburster wrote:

Butt logs are extraordinarily abundant and easy to obtain and trees are everywhere.

Even ignoring hungry work, branch trees cut up cripple the local kindling supply long term or weaken the water supply. Chopping up junipers won't produce butt logs. With hungry work, how is it easy to obtain butt logs in the grassland? Prairies have no trees that yield butt logs, and never have. I don't agree that trees worth cutting which yield butt logs are extraordinary abundant everywhere. And if you're chopping up branch trees for butt logs (not to just clear space for farming), what will the town do about kindling? Chop up firewood? Then the large slow fires become an issue, and trees need grown sooner which puts more pressure on the water supply. Grow more branch trees? Again, that's more pressure on the water supply, and once first watered it's 2 and a half hours *at minimum* before a grown branch tree yields a single branch (30 minutes before the sapling can get watered, 1 hour for it to grow, and another hour for a branch to get generated). It's 1 hour for any branch tree that is already grown.

Chestburster wrote:

You just said this yourself by the fact that people are using them for floors but you still think it's a waste to build like 10 boxes at the very most?

No, I don't think it's a waste to build more boxes. But, I don't think it's reasonable to expect that floor makers will choose to make more useful things like boxes instead of floors. Floor makers either won't understand how butt logs for other things is more useful, or won't care that other uses of butt logs are more useful. Additionally, people like wooden floors in kitchens and nurseries. It's an uphill battle all the way, especially in a game, to persuade people that they should do some more useful instead of doing something more enjoyable.

Chestburster wrote:

10 rope is also very easy to get.

Using a mod with a zoom feature or Jason's client? Yesterday as Thomas Oilar http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6708621 and using Hetuw mod I made a cart, lassoed a horse, and later got 8 lassos. I kind of doubt the rest of the server had horses. I think I made the first cart, and third cart. We had cows, but I don't think we had any milk (though I could of missed it). It's time consuming and certainly not the most interesting part of the game to get such ropes, and I've spent I don't know how much time growing milkweed on low pop servers which can be even worse. Your comment strikes me as consistent with me not having gotten enough sources of rope.

Chestburster wrote:

The logic here is poor and contradictory, and there isn't really an argument.

I find it curious that you claimed my reasoning as contradictory, Chestburster. But, if I contradicted myself, what was the contradiction in what I wrote? What were the two statements 'A' and '(not A)' that I made or assumed of which one was true, and the other one was false, and one was the negation of the other?

Also, your post asked a question. You now imply that when I try to answer your question, I should have made an argument? But then I would be focused on trying to establish the truth of a proposition, instead of trying to answer a question.

Chestburster wrote:

These are pretty good reasons for why they'd be useful. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome.

Chestburster wrote:

The whole style of the game is that each life is separate from the others...
An exception to the game's normal playstyle you had awhile back doesn't change the intended style of the game.

Even ignoring the example I gave above, I don't see how it's intended that the whole style of the game is that each life is separate from the others. Rebirthing exists with a button for getting reborn, which at least can suggest to some players that lives can feel connected and the player is still playing within the spirit of the game. Eve-chaining exists and goes back to a 2017 update before the game was sold to the pulbic. Sure, you can say that it doesn't exist on bs2. But, the game isn't intended for bs2 only, as even thinking about the September sale should make clear. Genetic score exists and has effects over several lives impacting leadership potential and pip amount at the end of life and potential to be an Eve on bs2. Curse name is consistent across an account. Mushrooms can have cross-life effects, meaning that it's acceptable to think that NO, you did not die. Not getting born to players you have cursed or birthing players on your curse list is a thing. DonkeyTown exists, which players only end up, because lives are connected to each other.

And the death screen with its "YOU DIED" is constant at the end of every life.

So, NO, it should not be obvious that the whole style of the game is that each life is separate from the others, because there exist too many intentionally designed mechanics which make lives connected.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-30 19:55:43

I also didn't mention in my last comment that the leaderboard exists.

Chestburster · 2020-10-30 22:28:10

Spoonwood wrote:

Your post asked a question. You now imply that when I try to answer your question, I should have made an argument? But then I would be focused on trying to establish the truth of a proposition, instead of trying to answer a question.

Yes, this whole topic is an argument, or a discussion. If it was a question it would have been just the question. I wouldn't have brought up the other sides proposition and tried to counter them with my own logic and understanding. It would just be a question, and then an answer which would have been sufficient.

You have also been participating in an argument this entire time. Did you not know that? You have been attempting to counter the points I made with your own. That is what an argument is. You weren't simply just answering a question.

I'm sorry but I feel that I just can't have a proper discussion with you if you aren't aware when you are in one.You also kind of keep going on odd unrelated tangents and explaining your reasoning in ways that don't really make a lot of sense and you're not hitting most of the points I make.

I don't mean to sound condesending or rude, I just really don't know how else to phrase it. I feel like I've gotten enough info here to have a clear view on everything anyways so I'm only going to reply to this thread from now on if someone has an interesting point to add.

Last edited by Chestburster (2020-10-30 22:31:23)

miskas · 2020-10-30 23:00:36

Chestburster wrote:

I've never seen anyone in-game with the mindset that taking things from villages isn't stealing. Maybe people wouldn't mind a horse stolen if they are overflowing with horses, but stealing the only delivery truck or horse from a village definitely would make most people angry.

If I get a pie from the kitchen who is the owner I stole from? If the kitchen isn't fenced up then the pie is communally owned.
Taking and using something that is not inside a fence and none is using it, is not stealing.

Chestburster wrote:

I've never taken anything back from a village that I made in a previous life because all the work I do is to help the village I'm a part of.

You have taken/used food, clothes and probably used an already crafted horse or a cart.
you maybe end up net positive cause you made more things but you start by "stealing" "others" staff.
when taking a pie from the kitchen is stealing and when is not?

Chestburster wrote:

If you want your own personal cart for yourself then fence it in somewhere private. If you want to see how many others feel the same way you do, then just go up to any village in the game where an item is important to them and take it from them for yourself with them knowing. Almost everyone will hate you for it.

when an item is used by someone for sure even borrowing for 10 seconds it will be annoying, I don't speak about taking these items. I speak about taking staff that lay on the ground without anyone using them.

Chestburster wrote:

The whole style of the game is that each life is separate from the others This is why you don't ever respawn at the same family. Not leaving the work from your life to the village kind of defeats thus purpose.

You just answered yourself why people don't fence their craftings. First, they are supposed to not come back so why fence something that you won't be using again? Then you don't spawn at a certain family then this family isn't special for you, So why fence it up to protect it from the other families?

Chestburster wrote:

If you think the general consensus is that things are free for all then you haven't played this game much or haven't thought about this correctly. The points you made simply aren't there and this is not a good argument.

I eat a mutton pie for free every life.

Last edited by miskas (2020-10-30 23:30:08)

OneOfMany · 2020-10-30 23:10:56

miskas wrote:

I eat a mutton pie for free every life.

You dirty dog

miskas · 2020-10-30 23:25:12

So to speak a little about myself, I am a great fun of property I used to build one every life.
I like to make, gather, and scavenge staff for my kids and give them to them.
I also made seed and animal backup storage, I am one of the first that used fences for engines and horses for the village, long before the hierarchy mechanics.
Also one of the first to use them as shops.
I also made fenced gardens and berries. If it has a fence on it I have done it ( even the bear zoo fence).

The Sad Thing is that yeah I like them and it might be fun sometimes to have a property for your kids but The truth is that you don't really have an incentive/advantage to use them. Trading is inefficient cause communication is inefficient. They don't even raise your gene score cause people die from other reasons than lack of resources. They are great if you want to store your horse or some clothes for kids but they are not that useful that every mom needs one,
because 1. Everything is free nothing is owned and
2. having one doesn't help you much in the first place so why bother.

Last edited by miskas (2020-10-30 23:33:43)

Arcurus · 2020-10-31 00:21:34

miskas wrote:

You just answered yourself why people don't fence their craftings. First, they are supposed to not come back so why fence something that you won't be using again? Then you don't spawn at a certain family then this family isn't special for you, So why fence it up to protect it from the other families?
:

I think we are talking about two different things. The current implementation of follower gates is not meant to protect much against outsiders. Its to protect against exiled ones, at least how it is implemented now. Ok for outside visitors now at least you get an message if they use follow you to pass the gate, so it could be used as kind of protection against outsiders even if not a perfect one.

So the use case is, ok you cursed one and exiled him now you have the option with follower gates to keep the exiled one outside the fence, or keep him inside.

This may help also if you out of whatever reasons are not able to catch him. Also it should help about bear grieving.

That said up to now i only experienced one time an fenced village and that was with the old gates before the posse update. So Strangers could attack the village and there was a village nearby which had an habit of attacking them. Funnily this was my first life.

So i guess unless we get another reason to protect the village again (currently war mechanics is broken since posse update), the fences might most likely not be used to fence a hole village.

Also the current curse system wont allow war.

That said, interestingly the follower gate idea came up because there was a lot of complaint about griefers who stole stuff and could not be catcht. But since then i did not hear much anymore about griefers. Did the curse increase to 90 days fix all these grieving or did the griefers simply get bored or do people now just accept the grieving without complaining?

One Hour One Life Forums

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