One Hour One Life Forums

AdamWest420

Member

Registered: 2020-09-26

Posts: 2

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

How many other games do you guys have thousands of hours in? I look at my list on steam, ive got one at 800, a few at 500. I probably played wc3 for maybe thousands of hours when I was a kid. If you have stuck around for one or two thousand hours we are talking about more then "last beyond the initial face". You are talking about very long term at that point. Most games become boring to me atleast at 80hrs or less unless there is something special about them. So although it doesn't have a perfect loop cycle, it seems to be doing ok. I do get the repetitiveness at that level though, which is part of why in game drama (that isnt total griefiing) I would think it would add much needed flare to spice things up. Having to worry about trading with someone 2k away that doesn't understand your exact words (though if they are an experienced player will know whats up). This isn't ment as an excuse as for not needing long term goals to keep people around but its not like you played for 5-10hrs and got bored like what happens with many triple A studio's games that cost 60$ offer. Jason's promise to add new stuff I think is his solution to that issue (whether in practice it works or not, though being a one man team is bottle necked sharply at his pace of production).

You do bring up fair points on trading particular resources like wine. That IS limited because generations don't carry on the work of their parents. Irl your kids usually inherit your business and you pass it down multiple generations. Those people literately do the same thing (make wine) over and over and over, thats what owning a business is like. Working and owning a business is not about having fun and is usually a LOT of hard work with very little fun. I get this is a game, which IS suppossed to be fun, but when you want to emulate real life in that regard, it comes with the good and the bad. If you establish a great wine producing colony and convince your kids to carry it on, it IS possible to have that kind of trade. You would have to tell your kids "this is the family business, we make wine, you are a winemaker stick with it" Some would listen and some would "sell it off" (stop doing it or do it somewhat), just like in real life. Unless jason adds a central currency and a shop or some other way to use said currency that comes with a personal benefit real trade will always be hard and seem almost pointless to the individual. If you needed money to get X cool item, people would be more likely to stick to a profitable business, fun or not. But without a central currency How many carrots is one bottle of wine worth? How many flat rocks is that wine worth? There is a reason why the barter system got replaced. Also Johnysky, I never said Dayz was boring, I said you are destined to do the same thing over and over, which imo you are. Loot, Run in land for an hour, die, repeat. Kill a few people before dying next time, repeat. Again, not saying boring or bad, ive got several hundred hours myself and had fun, but it IS repetitive imo. <3

I agree it does suck when you spend two-three hours building a farm, wells, walls and then the town dies out and most of your effort has gone to waste (unless another family occupies your old base) but that is by design a defining feature of the game, I have issues with it when its due solely to griefing when the town dies though. That's where I get the hate for jason's lack of proper tools to deal with it, though admittedly designing said tools isn't always as easy as a snap of your fingers without drastically changing the core of the game. But as for towns dying of natural causes even though you've spent x hours trying to build it up, if that is too big of a draw back i'd say play a pvt server or just go play Don't Starve. For a lot of my friends i've tried to get the game, that is why they don't want to play mostly and that's ok, though again I do get the repetitiveness of towns dying 10000 times and why im not surprised people take extended breaks until more significant content is added, im sure i'll hit that stage eventually.

Spoon, I mean no disrespect but I feel like you are going out of your way to look for racist things in life. You are looking way too deep into it. You could probably conclude anything and everything is racist irl if you really try hard enough to imo pseudoscience your way through it. "Sugar is racist because white sugar costs less then brown sugar" meanwhile its because white sugar is cheaper to produce for example. Im not saying you are being that extreme but it seems like you could be on the road to that. Again idk you besides on the VERY surface level, I dont mean to be disrespectful about it but your train of thought seems to led to that.

Calling Ohol a work of art is beyond subjective. I could argue CS:GO is a work of art and paints Iranian, Serbians and whatever other groups that make up the Terrorist side as evil bad people just trying to blow stuff up using your logic. Where do we dry the line? Ohol is not a real life simulator, I think you can probably extract some data about it, like how information is lost after x generation (Until people meta game with mods and forums/discord) but that's as far as it really goes. It is a horrible simulation of real life because most people dont ACTUALLY care about dying besides for some in game "score" (genescore). Irl you don't make sure you're not hungry solely so you dont hurt your score. Most people wouldn't take real life risks nearly as great, like fighting a bear since the consequences of death are actually permanent and you dont just hit respawn if you mess up. Its almost like its just a game, ment to be played for fun. Same with Arma, Tarkov or any "sim" game.

Just because it mirror some real life interaction with family and strangers doesn't make it a work of art. You are giving Jason way too much credit here. Imo I think the game is great and Jason takes a lot of flak, which in regards to the greifer thing, I totally understand the communities argument, but he basically turned Don't Starve into an MMO im guessing either for fun or to make money off of (which isn't a bad thing). He didn't exactly paint the Mona Lisa. Again, not trying to slam him, he's made a way better game then I could, but dont call him an artist lmao.

Even if he was an artist, why would he restrict himself on what art he creates to suit one person? Would you tell Leonardo da Vinci that he's sexist because he paints only women? True art  requires a freedom of expression, much like a good debate. If you are too worried about offending someone all the time you wont go far. Now, im not advocating people go paint swastikas or anything crazy, although if they did I wouldn't go "REEEEEEEEE" If I cared/had enough free time i'd try to talk to them and pull them away from their extreme beliefs.

Also spoon, people sadly are NOT born equal, that is just a fact of life. A man who is 6 foot tall has an advantage reaching the top shelf where the good cereal is over the guy who is 5'6. Are you upset the NBA is made up of mostly black people? I think its totally ok, best person for the job gets the job in my books. Or do you believe in affirmative action and we should force teams to sign x amount of white players, y amount of Asian players etc etc and have less black players, who ARE the best, sit on the sideline? People cry about not having enough female managers, but as soon as you flip the tables to a subject where "z minority group" dominates at people flop sides quick. Either everything is equal or nothing is, you cant just pick and choose, otherwise that is broken logic. Instead of saying "everyone is the same" imo, we should embrace our differences and use them to help each other out. Like the kid good at math can help you with your math homework and you help him with his english project. When we dont "pretend" everyone is perfectly equal in every way" we DO run the risk of hate groups forming, that IS a real risk and that's why we must be vigilante, but burying your head in the sand like an ostrich does (which they dont really do) and pretending everyone is the same is wrong imo.

From my semi limited time of only 80hrs i'd say kerosene is easily the "best" resource in the game. I don't think other races even have access to it if the gingers don't co-operate? (minus theft or murder of a town that wont trade it, which you could argue are valid strategies, though counter productive on the grand scale). I find that somewhat an issue for balance sake perhaps but not because that race HAPPENS to be white or any other particular color. Again gingers were treated like slaves and mistrusted for hundreds of years and when and before settlers first came to NA, using them as an example of white supremacy is kind of funny. On the hierarchy of race according to the Nazi party, the most hateful group to have real power in modern history; gingers arn't real white people just like slavs arn't nor gypsies, or if they are, they are a lower class of it. Even the British shat on ireland for hundreds of years for partly racial reasons. So imo the ginger argument is silly af. (For the record I love gingers, dated two of them)

As for the "Main whites" or w/e you want to call them, language family most of their power gained through knowledge is beyond superficial. Like what has been repeatedly said so far, when you should up with a bunch of buckets and a knife, the majority of players with more then x hours know whats up. That entire advantage is skipped when I show up in town and go "!" /love and the first or second person I see follows me to harvest latex. Once ina blue moon I might save some time when talking, and usually only with newer players. If i have to travel for twenty minutes to get rubber and peppers, but save a few seconds looking for a pencil and paper (IF thats even required) I dont see the advantage? If anything it seems like i've lost 18-19 minutes to use a resource that is immediately available to the browns. Plus if the families are around long enough they learn the languages over time, completely making the white's ability nothing special at that point. I fail to see how they are superior on a practical level. As for the artistic or social commentary level, unless you can read Jason's thoughts or he's explcitly stated his belief in white supremacy therefore it should be in the game, it was beyond subjective. You might see social bigotry wheres I see a story generator tool (broken or not). 

If we flipped the roles on race and blacks had oil and the browns had language, I dont think most people would care. The fact that you said you only "might" call racism if blacks had an advantage instead of absolutely would call racism, to me shows you are less concerned about racism and are most concerned with being anti white. You dodged that by saying "but a best resource doesn't exist" To me, racism is racism, black superiority is just as bad as white superiority. If I found it was implement for actual racist reasons, I wouldn't care which side benefited, i'd have to argue they should all be equal. Again, I don't know you at all, I can only judge based on surface level stuff in front of me, I mean no disrespect, just an open discussion.

I apologize and feel bad for writing a short essay, especially knowing people don't usually read something if its too long. But have a wonderful day everyone, including you spoon! <3

Last edited by AdamWest420 (2020-10-02 11:38:36)

Dantox

Member

Registered: 2019-04-28

Posts: 213

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

I hate the race restrictions as much as everyone else but saying that the update promotes white supremacy is too much of a strech. I would even say that the whites in this game are the most expendable of them all since they are not needed to progress in the tech.

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make bread, no war

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Being persistent is good but if what you believe in is dogshit, then you're just persistently running into a wall over and over again... without learning, adapting or being able to see anything else than the wall in front of you.

So if you believe and play on a small finite map, have limited resources, and have limited ideas, yes, you'll persistently run into a wall over and over again ... without learning, adapting or being able to see anything else than the wall in front of you.

Ah yes good one Spoon that makes white people even more stupid than monkeys then since they cant even pick bananas from trees and monkeys can.

And of course Dodge ignores that I've repeatedly said that whites in game end up intelligent, because they can understand human language.  Real world monkeys can't understand human language, or at least not to the same degree as white characters can in OHOL.

How is it possible to have that degree of tunnel vision?

It's easy for Dodge to have that sort of tunnel vision about what got said, when he's only interested in straw-manning.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

I don't think you can argue that the ability to understand all families is due to higher intelligence in the game.   It is just an innate ability, like being able to tolerate extreme heat in the desert is an innate ability for some families.   It does not reflect superior intellect anymore than the biome specializations reflect superior physical prowess.

Languages in OHOL are not like languages in the real world.   They are not structurally unique.  Rather, they are created by a chat filter overlaid on top of English words (or whatever you happen to type).    The universal translator ability is actually not the ability to understand all languages, but the LACK of a filter that obscures meaning.   

So whites are not smarter.  They are simpler.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-10-02 13:57:10)

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Just because it mirror some real life interaction with family and strangers doesn't make it a work of art. You are giving Jason way too much credit here.

No, I'm not claiming it as a work of art.  Rather Jason *intends* it as a work of art.  I think he's said something to that effect before.

Would you tell Leonardo da Vinci that he's sexist because he paints only women?

I haven't studied Da Vinci in regard to sex and painting.  But, perhaps he was a sexist in that regard.

Also spoon, people sadly are NOT born equal, that is just a fact of life.

I don't think that all members of one race have some intelligence in the real world, while all others of all other races do not have that same intelligence.  And that is a far cry from every individual being different than from every other individual in the real world.

Are you upset the NBA is made up of mostly black people?

No.  As you said, mostly.  And any non-black person can compete to make it into and succeed in the NBA.  That's far different from the race system in OHOL.

Or do you believe in affirmative action and we should force teams to sign x amount of white players, y amount of Asian players etc etc and have less black players, who ARE the best, sit on the sideline?

No, I don't believe in affirmative action.

Either everything is equal or nothing is, you cant just pick and choose, otherwise that is broken logic.

Too much weed there my Batman.  Consider the sequence of numbers [1, 2, 3, 1, 6, 8, 1].  Now, it's not the case that everything in this sequence is equal, since 3 does not equal 2.  But, the first element of the sequence is 1, and the last element of the sequence is also 1.  See?  Neither everything is equal nor nothing is for that sequence.

Have a good day too AdamWest420.  But, really, weed stinks.  And I don't think it does any favors to your brain (alcohol doesn't either).  So take care of yourself.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Dodge

Member

Registered: 2018-08-27

Posts: 2,467

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

...

Who said small? you have no idea what you're talking about once again, nice stretch between limited ressources and limited ideas btw so if earth has limited ressources does that mean our ideas are limited as well by your logic?

But if you dont want oceans, biome distribution that makes sense and a long term goal for players and civilisations i really dont care after all your definition of a good idea is "we should go back to old temperature system and stay between desert to be able to cheese the game", so yeah i wouldn't talk about ideas if i where you, stick to being triggered about dumb stuff it's better.

You keep insisting that language = intelligence but let me tell you there's a lot of people talking multiple languages that are extremly dumb by other standards, and yes having the ability to understand how to pick up a banana is a form of intelligence even a basic one since as you pointed even monkeys can do it, so if white people cant then that makes them dumber than monkeys, in case you didn't get the point.

I hate the race restrictions as much as everyone else but saying that the update promotes white supremacy is too much of a strech. I would even say that the whites in this game are the most expendable of them all since they are not needed to progress in the tech.

Well said.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

I don't think you can argue that the ability to understand all families is due to higher intelligence in the game.

I think I've been arguing that, so I think it can be done.  That such intelligence is more useful than other characteristics, isn't something I've argued.

Languages in OHOL are not like languages in the real world.   They are not structurally unique.  Rather, they are created by a chat filter overlaid on top of English words (or whatever you happen to type).    The universal translator ability is actually not the ability to understand all languages, but the LACK of a filter that obscures meaning.

I think you've broken the context of the game with your analysis here, though what you say does hold true.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Who said small?

Well, you've said you've wanted a finite map.  Dodge, the map IS and HAS ALWAYS BEEN finite.  There's ALWAYS been an edge to it.  And even if it were procedurally generated to keep generating more territory indefinitely, at any point in time what had gotten generated would still be finite in size.

So, keeping in mind that the map has always been finite, you were calling and still are calling for a finite map within a finite map, or a small map in comparison to the current map.  I'm not saying that you were calling for a map as small as the rifts were.  But, you were definitely calling for a map *small* in comparison to what currently exists.  So, the answer as to the 'who' is, it's you.

you have no idea what you're talking about once again, nice stretch between limited ressources and limited ideas btw so if earth has limited ressources does that mean our ideas are limited as well by your logic?

Given that we are part of the Earth, and we part of the Earth, yes, our ideas are limited as well.

But if you dont want oceans, biome distribution that makes sense and a long term goal for players and civilisations i really dont care after all your definition of a good idea is "we should go back to old temperature system and stay between desert to be able to cheese the game", so yeah i wouldn't talk about ideas if i where you, stick to being triggered about dumb stuff it's better.

The old temperature system allowed for a greater diversity of living conditions of players.  The challenges of living in a jungle, were not the same as living on a desert edge, and those challenges differed even more from roughing it in a grassland.  The old temperature system was a better idea than the current one which involves fewer possibilities for players in terms of the challenges that they can overcome.  At least with the old pond to well system and random biome distribution.

You keep insisting that language = intelligence but let me tell you there's a lot of people talking multiple languages that are extremly dumb by other standards

I don't think that I said that language is the only marker of intelligence.  But, *understanding* language is definitely a type of intelligence, or one of the facets of intelligence.

yes having the ability to understand how to pick up a banana is a form of intelligence even a basic one since as you pointed even monkeys can do it, so if white people cant then that makes them dumber than monkeys

Oh, but whites in game can *understand* how to do such.  They just can't do such themselves.  Thus, they have the relevant understanding, they just lack the physical ability.  So, they don't end up dumb on that grounds.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

I don't think you can argue that the ability to understand all families is due to higher intelligence in the game.

I think I've been arguing that, so I think it can be done.  That such intelligence is more useful than other characteristics, isn't something I've argued.

Then let me rephrase my statement.  I think it is INACCURATE to argue that the universal translator ability reflects higher intellect.

Just because you CAN do something, does not mean you should.   This is a bad argument, Spoon.  It is based on a poor foundation of weak logic.   As other people have already told you, it's a stretch.

Languages in OHOL are not like languages in the real world.   They are not structurally unique.  Rather, they are created by a chat filter overlaid on top of English words (or whatever you happen to type).    The universal translator ability is actually not the ability to understand all languages, but the LACK of a filter that obscures meaning.

I think you've broken the context of the game with your analysis here, though what you say does hold true.

That's kind of my point.   You are imagining what it would mean if someone had the ability to understand all languages in the real world and, based on that line of reasoning, determined that it would require amazing intellegence to achieve that level of language comprehension, thereby implying that white characters are born with superior intellect.   But understanding all the "languages" in OHOL, is actually a completely different problem.  Because they are not true languages.

If I understand how Jason implemented family language correctly, each family's unique language is actually a simple substitution cipher, replacing syllables in a predictable fashion.  If you know the "key" to the cypher, you can figure out how to "speak" any word in that family's language so you are understood by members of that family.

It isn't the same thing as instantly understanding all languages in the real world.   It is more like code-breaking.

Dodge

Member

Registered: 2018-08-27

Posts: 2,467

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

...

Yeah no i never said it should be small, the rift box was Jason's idea, my idea of it is a decently sized map with oceans, continents etc, but i guess you would argue the definition of "small" so it's pretty pointless to talk to you about it.

As a reminder with the old temperature system all the villages where on desert borders and clothes where pretty much useless or even dangerous to wear and you talk about variety?

Dont get me wrong i like the idea of each biome having their own challenges and having villages in these biomes that have a different way to play the game, and that's what i aim to with the world map i have in mind, like eskimo's that would live in the remote thundra and have a completely different lifestyle than people living in the jungle for example.

Eskimo's would have a natural resistance to cold and thundra would have it's own ressources that would allow survival and progress in tech, but there would be no strict restrictions, other races could also go to thundra and live there but without the natural restistance to cold that eskimo's have, it would be much harder and much more dangerous to even go there, so trading with the local population would be the wiser choice to aquire ressources from that biome.

In the current game this wouldn't work because the thundra is right next to mountains which is right next to grassland etc, so getting ressources from the thundra would not be a challenge and you can just step in and step out, hence why in part Jason added the restriction but it's only a bad version of what it could actually be if the map was different.

But using desert borders to cheese the game to have perfect temperature is not the way to go.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Then let me rephrase my statement.  I think it is INACCURATE to argue that the universal translator ability reflects higher intellect.

Just because you CAN do something, does not mean you should.   This is a bad argument, Spoon.  It is based on a poor foundation of weak logic.   As other people have already told you, it's a stretch.

I don't see why white characters in game should translate what they hear inaccurately.

If I understand how Jason implemented family language correctly, each family's unique language is actually a simple substitution cipher, replacing syllables in a predictable fashion.  If you know the "key" to the cypher, you can figure out how to "speak" any word in that family's language so you are understood by members of that family.

It isn't the same thing as instantly understanding all languages in the real world.   It is more like code-breaking.

Well, if so, I'm all in favor of those cyphers getting more exposure.  At least for players who knew those cyphers, they could then mod the game so that no language barrier between families seemed to exist.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Yeah no i never said it should be small, the rift box was Jason's idea, my idea of it is a decently sized map with oceans, continents etc, but i guess you would argue the definition of "small" so it's pretty pointless to talk to you about it.

You definitely did imply that it should be small in comparison to what existed before the rift.

As a reminder with the old temperature system all the villages where on desert borders and clothes where pretty much useless or even dangerous to wear and you talk about variety?

No, Dodge.  Clothes were NOT useless before the temperature overhaul.  I remember living in a place that almost had sheep that was in a grassland and I made some straw hats for players.  They heated players *just as much* as straw hats do now.  *The insulation numbers for clothing the week before and the week after the temperature overhaul are exactly the same (and they still are the same)*.

Also, there existed towns in jungles back then also.  I remember Tarr saying back then that a mouflon hide in jungles in those days would get you to just about perfect temperature.

Also, the temperature overhaul did NOT make it so that clothing would stop heating you in warm areas.  That change came a few weeks after.

And yes I talk about variety.  Living near snakes is different than living in a grassland.  Living seeing your family members getting bit, or getting bit, by mosquitoes somewhat frequently is different than living in a grassland.  And when you live in areas that are somewhat warm, and then end up in a cold grassland, yes, that's different.  Yes, that's variety.  And when there existed many more ways in which water worked with multiple ponds getting dug up into wells OR quickly going into a charcoal pump and then possibly seeing a diesel water pump somewhere in town also later, that's more variety than the linear progression of shallow well -> deep well -> newcomen pump -> diesel water pump.

You know what isn't variety?  Always living in the same temperature area, with the same biome spawning pattern around you.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Dodge

Member

Registered: 2018-08-27

Posts: 2,467

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

You know what isn't variety?  Always living in the same temperature area, with the same biome spawning pattern around you.

Cool at least we agree on something.

"Also, the temperature overhaul did NOT make it so that clothing would stop heating you in warm areas.  That change came a few weeks after."

I never said that i said that they where useless because almost every village was on edge desert biomes so you didn't needed clothes and wearing them would even be dangerous since it would insta over heat you and burn all your food pips.

And about jungles yes i remember, players would just block mosquitoes in corners and then enjoy almost perfect temperature at no cost so you could live for generations barely making any clothes and eating very minimal food, which would make a large part of the content useless.

sigmen4020

Member

Registered: 2019-01-05

Posts: 850

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Can you believe it? I even heard that the white race car is the easiest and most efficient race car to build out of all the colors. The white supremacy just doesn’t end with this game...

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2020-10-02 17:31:50)

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For the time being, I think we have enough content.

Gogo

Banned

Registered: 2019-10-11

Posts: 589

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Basically to produce wine and trade, we need a person dedicated for 4 lives exclusively to create bottles of wine (4 lives = 4 real hours) and possibly he will never see a bottle full of wine, nor will he be able to see the final result

this is not boring ????

This situation shows that racist restrictions do not promote trade, rather they destroy it

Without restrictions they can have their own goods, no one would want your wine.

AND everyone spawns in all families = they care for other towns. For trade to happen, you actually need more restrictions, you need to care only for your own (be evil capitalist). So players would need to spawn all over in one family per day.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-10-02 18:30:04)

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Sorry, Gogo.   Even if I was never born as a brown person, I would still give them sulfur if they asked me nicely.   Gift-giving is a fundamental part of social exchange in many cultures for a reason.

The current state of the game does not promote trade between villages for MANY reasons.  Pointing at just one reason and saying "that is it!  Fix that problem and we will start trading!" is the trap Jason fell into when he made race restrictions and then homeland restriction, and iron restriction and so on. 

It is similar to the problem of "why do we not build and live inside private homes in OHOL?"  Or even wy do we rarely build more than three buildings in the whole village?

The temperature update made us start wearing clothes like civilized human beings, but we still pile all our shit outside and live like hobos. 

Property fences were supposed to get us to claim property like old-timey homesteaders.  We were supposed to start keeping and defending private property.  Maybe even living in our own houses.  None of that really happened.

..

Regarding trade, I see several different, but related problems that prevent "real" trade between villages.   

In order to trade, you need to have something someone else needs.  You need to KNOW that they need it.  You need to be willing to part with it, for a price.  And lastly, you need a way to arrange the trade-off.

And doing all that needs to be EASIER than the other person making or gathering it themselves. 

Race restrictions tried to force trade by making everyone into "experts" that priority ownership over certain goods and services.  It looked good on paper, but in practice, we didn't really trade so much share resources freely. 

I think a big part of the problem is that Jason chose to lock resources that are straight-up critical to survival behind a biome lock and also he kept the language barrier in place.

This means that everyone NEEDS to exchange goods and we can easily guess what the other person needs most ...  but we cannot barter.   It is no surprise that we would work out a simpler solution than negotiating using paper and pencil. 

Take what you need and I will do the same.

Lifting the language barrier and reorganizing the biome-locked resources to be easily transported luxury items would foster better conditions for bartering.   So would encouraging players to live inside their special biomes and making more biome-locked crops so certain items are more common in certain areas.   

Lack of regional scarcity/surplus is another problem for large scale trade.   If you have plenty of a particular resource, but your neighbor has none, that is a potential trade opportunity.

I'd love to see the addition of more types of mines or other harvestable resources nodes in the wild.  One village might be close to a diamond mine, while a different village has a marble quarry.  Stuff like that.

Gogo

Banned

Registered: 2019-10-11

Posts: 589

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

If you have plenty of a particular resource, but your neighbor has none, that is a potential trade opportunity.

It's exactly like biome restrictions right now.

BTW @Spoonwood. You were totally wrong from the beginning. Whites aren't supreme, even gingers aren't. The junglers are, because they can make apoc tower. It's not what you can have, but how much can you destroy that makes you powerful. If junglers were bright, they would just make apoc towers inside property and tell others if they don't give them what they want, they can just trigger apoc.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-10-03 00:01:32)

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

If you have plenty of a particular resource, but your neighbor has none, that is a potential trade opportunity.

It's exactly like biome restrictions right now.

Yup.   I was thinking more like rare stationary resources, but the specialty biomes are a similar idea.   And it sort of works, because gingers produce oil for other villages to use.   Browns and blacks do the same thing with latex and sulfur.  We don't just make enough for ourselves and stop.   There is an incentive to over-produce and generate a surplus that can be traded to someone else, potentially. 

But it doesn't really feel like trading yet.   I can't imagine being a professional trader in OHOL under the current meta  What would that even look like?

As a black person, I will walk through a desert and release horses outside of the biome, so other families can tame them, as needed.   As a brown person, I will pile bananas outside the jungle for passing travellers to yum and plant pepper seeds in any village that lacks spice.   As a ginger, I will build awesome snowmen in the middle of town and make people taste my flavorless ice cream.   Does that make me a trader?   It doesn't seem like it should.

...

The delivery truck opens up the potential for traveling merchants, in theory.   But in practice, there are still major problems.  Like driving up to town with a truck full of merchandise and some hot-rodding teenager steals your livelihood as soon as you park the truck.

And it is hard to display your wares without suffering the same issue.  Trade relies on a certain amount of trust and goodwill between all parties.   When things are too chaotic or too lawless, it is difficult to establish profitable trade routes.  Especially ones that will stay alive for generations.

Eve Troll

Member

Registered: 2020-07-07

Posts: 331

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

If you have plenty of a particular resource, but your neighbor has none, that is a potential trade opportunity.

It's exactly like biome restrictions right now.

BTW @Spoonwood. You were totally wrong from the beginning. Whites aren't supreme, even gingers aren't. The junglers are, because they can make apoc tower. It's not what you can have, but how much can you destroy that makes you powerful. If junglers were bright, they would just make apoc towers inside property and tell others if they don't give them what they want, they can just trigger apoc.

Like i mentioned before. Gingers are most powerful race. They are the only one that can survive on their own. They also have the exclusive supply of water and iron in late game. They dont need the other races for that supply either.

Apocalypse towers dont get built because they take at least a day to complete and they can be reset. Not to mention most people invest time and effort into the game and arnt fans of just deleting it all.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

You were totally wrong from the beginning. Whites aren't supreme, even gingers aren't. The junglers are, because they can make apoc tower. It's not what you can have, but how much can you destroy that makes you powerful. If junglers were bright, they would just make apoc towers inside property *and tell others* [emphasis added] if they don't give them what they want, they can just trigger apoc.

Telling others as a means to control their behavior wouldn't matter without others understanding what got communicated.

Also, I suspect that advanced players aren't likely to change their behavior all that often, because of the threat of an apocalypse.  Perhaps they once were.  But, I don't think apocalypses trouble advanced players very often anymore, even if they are imminent.  I could be wrong on that, of course.

---

Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Gogo

Banned

Registered: 2019-10-11

Posts: 589

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

You are. https://ibb.co/nmSgWbP
Also about language skills - paper has advantage, it's permanent. I still need to make messages with pen and paper about our demands.
We want nice roses in our town. And usual resources for rubber. Otherwise we will put second end block.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

You are. https://ibb.co/nmSgWbP

I don't play on bs2 and haven't since January 31st.  So, why are you talking to me about this?

We want nice roses in our town. And usual resources for rubber. Otherwise we will put second end block.

lol... I could be wrong, but I don't think that blocking off the gate to that endtower would be all that difficult.

But hey, again, I'm not so sure that *most* advanced players care to change their behavior, because of the threat of some apocalypse.

---

Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Gogo

Banned

Registered: 2019-10-11

Posts: 589

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Well you can try to do something about the end tower. At least you would finally play the game you complain about so much, low pop servers aren't the proper game.

DestinyCall

Member

Registered: 2018-12-08

Posts: 4,563

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

I'm confused.  Why would the threat of apocalypse matter to someone playing on a low pop server?

Apocalypse towers don't wipe all servers.  They only affect their own server.

Using a server wipe is a nonsense threat.   It is like threatening to blow up the house if your kid doesn't clean his room.   The threat only works if he really thinks you are going to do it.   

And only if he likes the house.

NoTruePunk

Member

Registered: 2019-01-25

Posts: 321

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Isn't Jason an ancap?