Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

Gogo · 2020-09-30 22:42:27

Race restrictions are ok. Without them there won't be even need for making infrastructure.

DestinyCall · 2020-09-30 22:49:28

What infrastructure?

fug · 2020-09-30 22:53:16

Gogo wrote:

Race restrictions are ok. Without them there won't be even need for making infrastructure.

Because before race restrictions we didn't see mixed villages or connected villages.

Oh wait, that's actually us now because of homelands and race restrictions.

Gogo · 2020-09-30 23:10:14

But towns are connected. I agree homelands are pretty shitty. Mixed towns (on some terms) would be more interesting.

Eve Troll · 2020-10-01 00:21:27

Issue with no homeland + race restrictions was every fam just lived in the same town. So every life was in that town over and over.

When there were no race restrictions and no homeland it was super rare to have families living together, but it did happen and was pretty awesome.

The issue i see is that as long as we have race restrictions we will need strong families around to provide the resources. That's why we have the family limit to basically four. This also reduces the diversity of towns you spawn into since there are fewer options.

People were also so desperate to experience early game that they would leave town making pseudo eve settlements.

I think a big issue was people played favorites with fams and one would often be the favorited one. Often because people started projects or had some personal ties in those families.

Infrastructure still happened and people would build roads. I honestly haven't seen extreme changes in regards to roads. Even then it probably has more to do with the introduction of the paver than the fact biome restrictions exist. Plus walled cities used to be important to reduce the risk of theft and etc. Which honestly was a strong point in the game. Currently walls play no purpose but to keep people warm and even then the space you can contain with that is too small to be a reasonable workspace.

As long as we try and squash issue or behavior with "fixes" or mechanics to force the desired behavior we will limit the diversity of the game. We should be asking why are people behaving in this way and what are they missing that drives them to behave the way that they do.

I would prefer to see the fabric of the game influence by unfiltered player behavior than by mechanics.

Lets be real. If the world came to an end and we had to survive in a similar way to ohol, would things happen the same way they do in the game in its current state. People wouldn't trade unless there was a serious benefit to it, which there isnt. The current benefit is just being punished if you dont do it. Not what i would call unfiltered player behavior.

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-10-01 00:24:34)

Spoonwood · 2020-10-01 01:24:44

Eve Troll wrote:

That's why we have the family limit to basically four.

I'm not so sure about that. I remember participating in some threads where we had some evidence of so many babies for mothers, that it seemed unreasonable that they could keep up with them all. Given that new players just end up starved out in such a situation, I think the 4 children per mother idea makes a sort of sense.

You do have some interesting points though.

Eve Troll · 2020-10-01 01:38:17

Meant four as in four families total of each singular race. Obviously there are more than that sometimes but usually the family they are replacing are on the way out with the generational food mechanic.

If the amount of families adjusted with player population i doubt there would have been as many problems with the player influx.

The game has also been balanced for a small population. So when we have a large influx everything goes haywire. The population often drops off quickly though. Either due to the palatability of the game or the game being unbalanced for population growth. Maybe a mixture of the two.

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-10-01 01:51:53)

JonySky · 2020-10-01 16:35:37

Eve Troll wrote:

The game has also been balanced for a small population. So when we have a large influx everything goes haywire. The population often drops off quickly though. Either due to the palatability of the game or the game being unbalanced for population growth. Maybe a mixture of the two.

The game has gotten boring, just that.
I've played a lot of buggy and unbalanced games, but I kept playing them because they were fun and each game was incredible and different.

Dayz Mod was a good example ... a game full of bugs, and hackers, but it was one of the most popular games in history

At OHOL you are condemned to do the same over and over again ...

that's why new players are disappearing

Last edited by JonySky (2020-10-01 16:37:21)

AdamWest420 · 2020-10-01 17:35:14

Eh ive got like 60hrs in the game, bought around a month ago. I dont think new players are really driven away by "condemned to do the same over and over again" since every life im still learning something new. I do hunt rabbits or farm every other life for 5-10mins and besides explaining yum 100 times it hasn't gotten repetitive for me yet. Every game has people that play just once. I feel like this game has a higher amount since it doesn't hold your hand if the mother you are born too doesn't. The quality of the first few lives played probably makes a big difference. My first life I was left in the woods to die. My second life I had some pro be my super mom, taught me basic farming, making compost and how to smith tools all in like 40 mins.

I think the change to new players food pips draining slow, while a late fix is a good fix to help pad that out.

I might not have played enough to fully know about the issues with population boom, but from what I saw in the steam sale was Water being the bottle neck 90% of the time. Once kerosene runs out bodies start piling it seemed. The other water sources do seem balanced for lower pop. This leads me into the only thing I agree with OP on is, gingers being the sole oil providers.

Imo its pretty silly to call it white supremacy, I really doubt Jason was like "White people are the best" so much as literately trying to add variety and story generation to the game. The language family is useless essentially and gingers have been historically discriminated against heavily. The Irish were yesterdays slaves through indentured servitude. They would not be considered "The master race" irl so wtf are you talking about white supremacy? The language family's only ability is replicated with a pencil and paper, meanwhile latex is 1000x more useful and limited to only harvesting from the browns. Again, what white supremacy do you speak of?

My question directly to OP is: if the black family had access to the best resource would you still cry racism? Or would you be totally fine with it?

P.S. In Dayz you are "condemned to do the same over and over again" <3

Last edited by AdamWest420 (2020-10-01 17:38:29)

Spoonwood · 2020-10-01 19:54:49

AdamWest420 wrote:

They would not be considered "The master race" irl so wtf are you talking about white supremacy?

Whites, *by their nature*, can *understand* language better than other types in the game. Understanding is a central part, if not the central part, of intelligence. Language has historically at least gotten understood as unique to humans, and thus gotten associated with human intelligence. Thus, that whites end up as intellectually *superior* in some hypothetical future (note the context of the game is that it takes in some hypothetical future) follows. In other words, whites are supreme intellectually in the game's hypothetical future. The game is intended as a work of art. Thus, it's either encouraging that people view whites that way, or some sort of social commentary with respect to white people in the real world.

DestinyCall disagrees that whites abilities are useless also, since to interact with other families their advantage saves time. She is correct. If you want sulfur from a black character as white, you can talk to them and communicate with them. Thus, they can understand quickly. If you want sulfur from a black character and you are brown, you can't just talk to them and have them understand you. Your best bet would be to use a piece of paper, a pencil, AND have a *rubber* eraser (but the rubber eraser required sulfur to make in the first place!). Or a radio. Both of which require more time, even if around. And if they aren't around, they would need to get constructed.

But still, doing such requires technology for non-white characters. For white characters they can translate languages naturally and under all conditions. Thus, they naturally have superiority of understanding others, and thus intellectual supremacy.

It's one thing to say that such was a mistake. It's one thing to say that such wasn't intentional. It's another to not understand that whites have an intellectual capacity in the game that no other race has, not by virtue of their classification.

That intellectual superiority of whites is the first form of white supremacy in the game. The other form of white supremacy is that gingers, a subclass of white people in the real world, don't need any other race to survive past a certain point of oil production.

AdamWest420 wrote:

My question directly to OP is: if the black family had access to the best resource would you still cry racism?

I might. But, there would have to exist a best resource in the first place for that. Some might think that horses the best resource in the game. But, it isn't like a horse ensures your families survival, nor your survival.

Though, I think DestinyCall argued above that the best resource in the game is time. And all races are equal with respect to the time that they have, at least in terms of their individual lives. Though gingers, again a subtype of white people in the real world, need LESS time to obtain kerosene for water production (which is for food production) late game, at least theoretically.

Dodge · 2020-10-01 20:22:56

You know the game is boring when the top post is this...

Also please stop arguing with Spoonwood he's a troll in denial

Just read how out there is arguments are and you will realize it.

Just read this: " Though, I think DestinyCall argued above that the best resource in the game is time. And all races are equal with respect to the time that they have, at least in terms of their individual lives. Though gingers, again a subtype of white people in the real world, need LESS time to obtain kerosene for water production (which is for food production) late game, at least theoretically."

His argument here is basically since it takes less time for gingers to obtain kerosene for water and since water is crucial then the big bad Jason is making the game racist because gingers who are white spend less time getting water and time is the best ressource so this makes them "superior" to other races because they have more time.

An argument so far fetched that any person with an ounce of common sense and not high on crack cocaine would understand that it's absolutly ridiculous.

Oh also you can bypass the language thing that the "superior whites" have by simply writing on a piece of paper (unless jason patched this) or simply by getting drunk.

So wouldn't that make the whites even more useless and therefore inferior??? Is the game promoting black anmd brown supremacy then , or does that mean that the whites are so stupid that you have to be drunk to get on their level, makes sense since they cant even pickup bananas on a tree

Spoonwood it's time to stop this is getting embarrassing.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-01 21:01:23

Dodge wrote:

His argument here is basically since it takes less time for gingers to obtain kerosene for water and since water is crucial then the big bad Jason is making the game racist because gingers who are white spend less time getting water and time is the best ressource so this makes them "superior" to other races because they have more time.

No, that's not the entire argument.

Dodge wrote:

Oh also you can bypass the language thing that the "superior whites" have by simply writing on a piece of paper (unless jason patched this) or simply by getting drunk.

Paper has to exist first. So do *glass* bottles, since one can't drink wine without glass in OHOL. Whites don't require technology to do either in game. They do so naturally.

Dodge wrote:

does that mean that the whites are so stupid that you have to be drunk to get on their level ...

No it doesn't mean that, because understanding what someone else said is not stupid.

Dodge wrote:

makes sense since they cant even pickup bananas on a tree

No, even if what you asserted made sense, it wouldn't make sense on that basis, since the ability to pickup something from a banana tree is very different than the ability to understand human language. Monkeys pick bananas from trees: https://bugandanowcalleduganda.files.wo … anas_2.jpg. That doesn't make monkeys able to understand human language though.

Dodge wrote:

So wouldn't that make the whites even more useless and therefore inferior

Ability isn't use, nor is use ability. So, no, that doesn't follow.

I stand by what I said above. In OHOL, whites have superior ability *intellectually*, since by their *natural* abilities, they can *understand* other races languaage without learning that language over the course of time. Or equivalently they have the ability to *instantly* learn another language. No other race a corresponding *intellectual* ability. And gingers, being a sub-type of white people in the real world, have more time endgame, at least theoretically, because they don't need any other race to produce water for food production/improvement.

Eve Troll · 2020-10-01 21:47:24

Dodge vs spoon is the rivalry of the ages.

@adamwest, totally get the new player vibe. Its a lot of fun learning at the start and repeating stuff and getting better at it feels good. But once you get a few hundred hours and start trying to carry it gets really frustrating. You do the same stuff over and over in the hopes of it making a difference just to have it go down the drain in a day or two. Once you hit the thousands it just feels monotonous. So probably my point of view is a bit skewed for that reason. Glad you're enjoying the game and hope you stick arounnd.

Also i don't think anyone would call it racist if we all spawned as robots or aliens. But it would still be a clunky and annoying system.

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-10-01 21:50:41)

DestinyCall · 2020-10-01 22:08:56

Dodge wrote:

You know the game is boring when the top post is this...
Also please stop arguing with Spoonwood he's a troll in denial
Just read how out there is arguments are and you will realize it.

I wouldn't call Spoonwood a troll exactly. He is too sincere. Even when his arguments make no sense to anyone else, you can tell that he fully believes in what he is posting. I don't think he is doing it just to mess with people. I suspect this game is his hobby and main social outlet right now.

At the same time, I have to agree that there is no point trying to seriously argue with Spoonwood, because his mind clearly works on Spoon-logic and, as everyone knows, spoons are very curved and bendy. Therefore, the logic of spoons appears curvy and strange to non-spoons. Unless you can think like a spoon, there is no point in even attempting a battle of wits with Spoonwood. That's like trying to eat a bowl of soup with a knife. Frustrating and potentially dangerous to everyone involved.

Someone might even lose an eye.

Eve Troll · 2020-10-01 23:34:31

DestinyCall wrote:

Dodge wrote:
You know the game is boring when the top post is this...
Also please stop arguing with Spoonwood he's a troll in denial
Just read how out there is arguments are and you will realize it.
I wouldn't call Spoonwood a troll exactly. He is too sincere. Even when his arguments make no sense to anyone else, you can tell that he fully believes in what he is posting. I don't think he is doing it just to mess with people. I suspect this game is his hobby and main social outlet right now.
At the same time, I have to agree that there is no point trying to seriously argue with Spoonwood, because his mind clearly works on Spoon-logic and, as everyone knows, spoons are very curved and bendy. Therefore, the logic of spoons appears curvy and strange to non-spoons. Unless you can think like a spoon, there is no point in even attempting a battle of wits with Spoonwood. That's like trying to eat a bowl of soup with a knife. Frustrating and potentially dangerous to everyone involved.
Someone might even lose an eye.

<3

Honestly i have so much respect for spoon. One of the few on here who speaks their mind with no remorse. Rises aboves the hate they gets and keeps doing them. Not afraid to argue and actually reads peoples' posts and responds in context. Even if you dont agree with them you cant argue they dont care.

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-10-01 23:35:48)

DestinyCall · 2020-10-02 00:19:25

Eve Troll wrote:

<3
Honestly i have so much respect for spoon. One of the few on here who speaks their mind with no remorse. Rises aboves the hate they gets and keeps doing them. Not afraid to argue and actually reads peoples' posts and responds in context. Even if you dont agree with them you cant argue they dont care.

I do like that about Spoonwood. He doggedly pursues what he values and always listens to people and tries to be accurate and fact-based in his posts, sometimes to a fault.

And it is so amusing to watch new people encounter Spoon for the first time and go into the debate, all gung-ho, no clue what they are up against. Makes me chuckle every time.

Sadly, I lost a lot of my respect for him during his "Dark Spoonwood" phase a while back. I can tolerate quite a bit, but things just went too far into the bleakness. Reading his threads wasn't fun anymore. More like watching a slow-motion car crash. :-(

Fortunately, he has mellowed out a bit since then. Still pretty negative, but not "cutting yourself to feel" negative.

Dodge · 2020-10-02 03:39:03

Being persistent is good but if what you believe in is dogshit, then you're just persistently running into a wall over and over again... without learning, adapting or being able to see anything else than the wall in front of you.

"No, even if what you asserted made sense, it wouldn't make sense on that basis, since the ability to pickup something from a banana tree is very different than the ability to understand human language. Monkeys pick bananas from trees: https://bugandanowcalleduganda.files.wo … anas_2.jpg. That doesn't make monkeys able to understand human language though. "

Ah yes good one Spoon that makes white people even more stupid than monkeys then since they cant even pick bananas from trees and monkeys can.

How is it possible to have that degree of tunnel vision?

Eve Troll · 2020-10-02 04:30:43

Dodge wrote:

Being persistent is good but if what you believe in is dogshit, then you're just persistently running into a wall over and over again... without learning, adapting or being able to see anything else than the wall in front of you.
"No, even if what you asserted made sense, it wouldn't make sense on that basis, since the ability to pickup something from a banana tree is very different than the ability to understand human language. Monkeys pick bananas from trees: https://bugandanowcalleduganda.files.wo … anas_2.jpg. That doesn't make monkeys able to understand human language though. "
Ah yes good one Spoon that makes white people even more stupid than monkeys then since they cant even pick bananas from trees and monkeys can.
How is it possible to have that degree of tunnel vision?

This is honestly hilarious coming from you dodge. Maybe apply that stuff to yourself.

Dodge · 2020-10-02 05:58:49

Eve Troll wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Being persistent is good but if what you believe in is dogshit, then you're just persistently running into a wall over and over again... without learning, adapting or being able to see anything else than the wall in front of you.
"No, even if what you asserted made sense, it wouldn't make sense on that basis, since the ability to pickup something from a banana tree is very different than the ability to understand human language. Monkeys pick bananas from trees: https://bugandanowcalleduganda.files.wo … anas_2.jpg. That doesn't make monkeys able to understand human language though. "
Ah yes good one Spoon that makes white people even more stupid than monkeys then since they cant even pick bananas from trees and monkeys can.
How is it possible to have that degree of tunnel vision?
This is honestly hilarious coming from you dodge. Maybe apply that stuff to yourself.

What are you talking about?

If i was really not being able to recognize a wall when i see it i would still be arguing with spoonwood, hoping that he would understand how ridiculous some of his arguments are and change his perspective, but i realized it's pointless trying to make him have even an ounce of self awareness.

Big difference between being persistant and not being able to let go.

"smart people" often think they are smarter than everyone else but they fail to realise that intelligence exists in so many different ways, like being able to observe your own thoughts and behavior and understand what place they come from, then realizing if they make sense or are based on obsession or any other unhealthy characteristic.

JonySky · 2020-10-02 06:43:47

AdamWest420 wrote:

Eh ive got like 60hrs in the game, bought around a month ago. I dont think new players are really driven away by "condemned to do the same over and over again" since every life im still learning something new. I do hunt rabbits or farm every other life for 5-10mins and besides explaining yum 100 times it hasn't gotten repetitive for me yet. Every game has people that play just once. I feel like this game has a higher amount since it doesn't hold your hand if the mother you are born too doesn't. The quality of the first few lives played probably makes a big difference. My first life I was left in the woods to die. My second life I had some pro be my super mom, taught me basic farming, making compost and how to smith tools all in like 40 mins.

Dodge's phrase describes it perfectly

Dodge wrote:

You know the game is boring when the top post is this...

Are you having fun with the game? perfect! I'm so glad that you have fun and that you like the game!

Curiously, all of us who write in this forum also like the game and that is why we propose new ideas, write suggestions, indicate where the errors are and explain that mechanics are not working well.

The real problem is that of the 350 players who accessed the game 2 weeks ago, only 60 players remain (the numbers are not deceiving)

I don't think the first few games of a game will flog new players
Example: RUST, the level of frustration in the first games is much higher than in OHOL I guarantee it! but it has a player base growing every week.

but ... there are more reasons that generate the massive abandonment of this game (lack of logic, absurd magic mechanics, racist mechanics, lack of challenges, imbalance between races, a lot of disorder, etc ...) if you view the trailer of this game you don't see any of this

PS: Dayz mod, ... boring? I have 2000 hours in that game and I don't remember being bored even one night in that game, but I guess it depends on each type of player!

Last edited by JonySky (2020-10-02 06:47:47)

Caprys · 2020-10-02 07:31:24

Dodge wrote:

His argument here is basically since it takes less time for gingers to obtain kerosene for water and since water is crucial then the big bad Jason is making the game racist because gingers who are white spend less time getting water and time is the best ressource so this makes them "superior" to other races because they have more time.

I wouldn't say that it saves them time. They have to find the oil spots, make the resources to get it (witch include a lot of their own iron that has to be replaced), bring all the resources to the oil spot, prepare the oil spot, get the oil and to top it off they deliver it to the other fams doorstep without any repayment. Not to mention that most of the time empty tanks are not getting returned by the other fams. With means that the ginger that wants get oil after the first run have to go to other fam to retrieve the empty tanks or has to waste more iron of their own to make more tanks.

And the person that does all this is a veteran. That is one less veteran that can work in the ginger town to improve it.

Eve Troll · 2020-10-02 07:40:32

You not seeing my point is an example of that tunnel vision you accuse spoon of, dodge.

Thank you jony for bringing up the real issue. Player retention. How did we go from 350 to 150? to 70? In a little over a week. Answering that problem is what might save this game. I dont have the answer but i think finding it is probably the most important thing if we want to see the true potential of this game.

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-10-02 07:52:14)

JonySky · 2020-10-02 09:03:30

Caprys wrote:

Dodge wrote:
His argument here is basically since it takes less time for gingers to obtain kerosene for water and since water is crucial then the big bad Jason is making the game racist because gingers who are white spend less time getting water and time is the best ressource so this makes them "superior" to other races because they have more time.
I wouldn't say that it saves them time. They have to find the oil spots, make the resources to get it (witch include a lot of their own iron that has to be replaced), bring all the resources to the oil spot, prepare the oil spot, get the oil and to top it off they deliver it to the other fams doorstep without any repayment. Not to mention that most of the time empty tanks are not getting returned by the other fams. With means that the ginger that wants get oil after the first run have to go to other fam to retrieve the empty tanks or has to waste more iron of their own to make more tanks.
And the person that does all this is a veteran. That is one less veteran that can work in the ginger town to improve it.

This is another big OHOL problem
Racist restrictions do not encourage collaboration or trade ... they generate just the opposite

I explain:
Imagine that you want to be a great wine producer and you want to trade in your wine production ...
to trade in wine you need a certain amount of glass bottles

In one life, a player can create (more or less) about 3 or 4 bottles of wine ... (if we have everything we need)

If you want to trade wine, you must have a minimum requirement of about 3 bottles of wine for each family, (to trade with less quantity, it no longer makes sense to trade) in total you need 12 glass bottles (more or less)

You need 4 lives to create 12 glass bottles
Of course, you also need a lot of time to make several trips to take these bottles to the family that is in charge of making the wine and to gather the necessary components to create those glass bottles.

I omit that in the course of those 4 lives, the bottles will disappear, or they will be used for other things, or they will be stolen, I also omit that cups have to be created for all families (minimum 4) caps for the bottles and funnels
I also omit that all this has to be created with the language barrier, with the national barrier and with the possibility of your family dying due to lack of children in any of those 4 lives (remember that if you want to trade or distribute bottles of glass altruistically could not have children)

Basically to produce wine and trade, we need a person dedicated for 4 lives exclusively to create bottles of wine (4 lives = 4 real hours) and possibly he will never see a bottle full of wine, nor will he be able to see the final result

this is not boring ????

This situation shows that racist restrictions do not promote trade, rather they destroy it

Dodge · 2020-10-02 09:09:00

JonySky wrote:

Dodge wrote:
You know the game is boring when the top post is this...
Are you having fun with the game? perfect! I'm so glad that you have fun and that you like the game!

I have no fun playing this game, currently it's very boring and like you mentionned passed a certain point loses it's interest, i have more fun thinking about ways to make it better, i do believe that this game has a great potential and could be fun to be played even beyond the initial x hours, but needs a lot of work and especially needs Jason to figure things out, which right now is far from it.

Caprys wrote:

I wouldn't say that it saves them time.

It's spoonwood's argument you can discuss it with him if interested.

Eve Troll wrote:

You not seeing my point is an example of that tunnel vision you accuse spoon of, dodge.

What point exactly? you didn't make any point related to me, sounds like BS.

JonySky · 2020-10-02 09:35:53

Dodge wrote:

JonySky wrote:
Dodge wrote:
You know the game is boring when the top post is this...
Are you having fun with the game? perfect! I'm so glad that you have fun and that you like the game!
I have no fun playing this game, currently it's very boring and like you mentionned passed a certain point loses it's interest, i have more fun thinking about ways to make it better, i do believe that this game has a great potential and could be fun to be played even beyond the initial x hours, but needs a lot of work and especially needs Jason to figure things out, which right now is far from it..

do not express me well dodge, this comment was directed to Caprys
But I share your comment on boredom

One Hour One Life Forums

#51 2020-09-30 22:42:27

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

#52 2020-09-30 22:49:28

Re: Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy?

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#75 2020-10-02 09:35:53

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