Animal husbandry and breeding for improvements

mrbah · 2020-08-17 07:37:41

I rewatched the "making a sheep" stream and it lead me to think about animal husbandry.

You generally don't tame a wild animal and directly alter it's physique, you selectively breed the animal into becoming more "efficient" at whatever you have decided it should do.
With animals we have a rough version of this, although it's of course way too fast.

I was thinking, what if a domesticated moufflon had a small chance of creating a domestic lamb and a high chance of spawning a domestic moufflon lamb.
and in a similar vein a domestic lamb had a small chance of spawning a lamb of a breed that gives more wool or a small chance of a breed that gives slightly more meat?

You could do a similar system with pigs and Cows.

Ideally there would be a need to raise several generations to improve, but I know how much of an issue that is without metastats, so having a tier of "half domesticated" moufflon would involve copy pasting every object that the moufflon belongs to and then changing the lamb it produces to a fully domesticated lamb.

That way, whenever the town mismanages their animal ressources, there is an actual set back in their potential for production, no wool until you have finished breeding your sheep, no milk until you have finished breeding your Buffalo.

Not sure what Jason's priorities are in regards to the game but I think domesticating animals and plants should show some benefits it currently doesn't, a bit example is of course the dreaded milkweed and it's monopoly on rope.

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2020-08-20 22:32:21

Selective breed berries to make very nutritious berries. Boom berry munching solved.

DestinyCall · 2020-08-21 00:13:22

Is berry munching still a thing?

fug · 2020-08-21 02:17:58

DestinyCall wrote:

Is the game still a thing?

Fixed it for you.

Morti · 2020-08-21 05:32:40

mrbah wrote:

a bit example is of course the dreaded milkweed and it's monopoly on rope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toyOKOi0DsM
What if x balls of thread made a piles of y lassos via a machine like this (see link) that took two people to operate along with an adze, froe, mallet and knife, just to build the thing.

I'd like to see a building dedicated to carpentry become more of a thing. One that would eventually be occupied by a bandsaw, tablesaw, jigsaw, lathe, etc., all operated by electromagnetic motors. I'd love for people to be able to make furniture, like real shelving units, chairs, desks, stools... and maybe even beds, but I've not considered their use... maybe as a warm place to AFK, or, as a place to recover from illnesses and be treated by nurses.

--

As for selective breeding of crops and animals, I could see this working as a chance sort of thing when offspring, be they the fruit, vegetable or animal is selected, or separated, from the parent organism. Say, there are 3-9 possible states, and taking something from the wild starts you in the first state.

The number of genetic ingredients added to a recipe could be added up and the bonuses summed for the recipe.

So, if you have +0 food wheat, +2 food berries and +1 food carrot in a berry carrot rabbit pie that, would give +23 per bite.

And, for simplicity's sake, on a simple 3 tier scale, all +0 ingredients is basic, all +2 ingredients would be high quality and everything in between could be good.
OR
All +0 could be considered low quality, all +2 could be high, and everything in between, unlabeled; just normal.

How to make this work with the wide variety of reproductive methods (seed acquisition) for each plant... would be tricky.
I want to say you pull a berry off a normal bush, it has an x% chance of being higher quality, let's say 10%. You can then choose to eat it or include it in a recipe, or, get the seed and grow a better bush, which then has % chance for better or worse berries, until you get up to, a bush producing 90% of the +2 quality berries.

Deciding what happens when you throw an array of berries into a bowl from +0 to +2 quality, and mash it or use it, could be simplified the same way; all +0s, low quality, all +2s high, everything in between, normal.

Keep in mind tracking all this new data uses more resources, how much more I can't say, but I can see many people enjoying the challenge of getting exceptionally high quality foods, being very proud of the time and effort they put into their crops, and being utterly distraught when their work is ignored in their absence and they return, lives later, and people have planted all +0 and +1 crops in place of their +2s, say, in the case of carrots.

Animals could work similarly, though, let's say, sheep, for instance, could produce +0 +1 or +2 wool when sheared, or mutton when slaughtered. Then maybe we could use those excess balls of thread in a rope making machine to produce long coils of rope that could be used at full length for greater projects, or cut with shears, knives or flint, into smaller lengths of rope, down to the base value used for many projects.

Regardless, woodworking and breeding, of both crops and animals, could use the sort of attention to detail, and rework, that iron has gotten in the last year, and water (wells) did the year before it. Will it upset people in the present, yes. Will people in the future look back and be glad it was changed to the newer system? Time will tell, but probably yes, if it makes more sense and adds an interesting element to the game the present or past systems lacked.

Morti · 2020-08-21 05:56:28

Imagine a gooseberry bush that only produced 1 berry that gave 1 food, every 10 years, because no one cared for it.

Léonard · 2020-08-21 10:36:37

fug wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
Is the game still a thing?
Fixed it for you.

Is Jason still a thing at that point?

sigmen4020 · 2020-08-21 12:22:58

fug wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
Is the game still a thing?
Fixed it for you.

Sometimes you can't help but forget

Spoonwood · 2020-08-21 14:10:21

GrowCarrots wrote:

Is Tarr still alive?

Broke it for you.

Morti · 2020-08-21 19:09:29

You guys... don't get it.
Jason is making our game.
When you stop, he stops for you.
Get back to work making your game better.

DestinyCall · 2020-08-21 21:05:06

That can't be right.

If this was our game, shouldn't we have a baby sling by now?

Morti · 2020-08-21 22:05:57

DestinyCall wrote:

shouldn't we have a baby sling by now?

Okay, it's not entirely our game or Jason's, we're both teaching each other things.
Jason not adding the sling, or at least holding off on it, is trying to teach us, or convey via the game, the responsibility of caring for a child. Having to juggle caring for your child while also trying to work on other things, is an aspect of the game that we need to learn from, regarding real life. It's basically Jason telling us we can't neglect our children, IRL. This is an important lesson; I can say this from experience, as I think my mother was probably a good example. She was single when I was born, already had 4 kids with another man she had recently divorced, had a kid with my father, and a kid with my little brother's father a year and 3 months after I was born, and neither my father nor my little brother's father stayed with her to help her with me, him, or my 4 other siblings. So for my entire life, and the life of my little brother; for the last 42 years, she has been working many jobs to provide for her children.

I have always known my mother as a workaholic, but as I child, and even still to this day, I felt she neglected many important aspects of child rearing and the process of reading my little brother and I for adulthood, and so, he and I are at present, ill equipped and poorly prepared for independence. My little brother far less equipped than I, as having to be an older brother to him while my mother was busy working and our four older siblings, let's just say, weren't always there for us. But video games were, and are, still there for both of us and have absorbed loads of our attention over the years. As well as television in his case and the internet in mine.

My situation was a complex one, and, depending on how you look at it either typical of the average, overworked, American single parent household, or, atypical of the average upbringing in general. Many things distracted my mother from being more attentive to us over the years. She watched A LOT of television herself when she was at home, I was a very demanding child and later found myself in a lot of legal and scholastic trouble. My mother was implored by the courts and the school system to seek psychiatric and psychological "assistance" to account for the difficulty, and I was subsequently injected into many drug programs to make up for the lack of guidance I received from adults, as, my mother had few friends to help raise me, since she was ashamed that she had allowed a man, married to another woman with 3 or 4 children of his own, to impregnate her...

LOOK, it's complicated. It's a mess. THE POINT IS, you have to give children more and more attention as we get deeper and deeper into the future that is also seeking their attention, or YOU WILL lose the one chance you have to see them off to a good start in life. This, I FEEL, is the reason that Jason has not rushed to provide us with more ways to neglect THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of this game, which is, OTHER PEOPLE.

Don't get me wrong though, people around the world, and throughout time, have raised wonderful children, even though they used strollers, cribs, babypacks and slings. Even though they sat their kids in front of televisions and bought them video games, their kids still may have turned out well if they also balanced those sort of NEGLECTFUL behaviors, with love, attention, concern, compassion, engagement, encouragement and guidance, throughout their infancy, childhood, adolescence and even into adulthood.

Good, hardworking, successful, and ADAPTIVE people, are NOT BORN THAT WAY. We require tools; social tools, knowledge, examples, experience... passed down to us, from those we look up to; from those who have gained those traits before us and can pass them onto us, ever so more efficiently than those lessons were passed on to them - we REQUIRE these things to continue to become better as communities, cultures as a species and on the grandest of scales, as life, as the Earth and as the Universe.

We can only teach ourselves so much at a time.
Intelligence can only get the individual so far in life.

Now, this brings me back to the reason I tell people I love them on a regular basis. It's just as much for them as it is for me, because I can recognize that it's easy for ME to forget; to slip up and to ignore the attention that all of you, and all the new people that come to this game, deserve. Compassion is the lubricant; the catalyst, that encourages this flow of information that we receive through our senses and accumulate and prioritize in our heads, FROM THE DAY WE ARE BORN.

In order for this world to be better for me, I recognize it needs to be better for you and it needs to continue to get better, for all children born from now on, or else, it's going to get worse. Worse, in that we will ultimately become less capable of insuring our survival as a species, and, potentially lose our potential to carry life and all the possibilities that come with it, to new worlds, where even more potential for future's exist.

In the same way that we recognize the potential of atoms and molecules working together to bring about life, and for cells and organisms to work together to make creatures like us possible, we must recognize we as a species and life as a whole on this planet, are similarly organized and the next level for such tiers of organization, will be for new world to work together, for the betterment of all life in the universe itself......

...this is why we don't have baby slings, yet.

>_<

We just need to show that we have a surplus of compassion for one another for Jason to afford us, to see us deserving, of the slack WE can afford.

I think... I think that's why.

DestinyCall · 2020-08-21 22:24:27

Huh.

And here I thought it was because the game engine does not support attaching two player characters together on a technical level. From what I've heard, it creates some really hilarious visual glitches/ hybrid abominations if you try and it would be a real headache to fix.

It is basically the same problem that prevents vehicles like horse carts, cars or planes from carrying passengers.

Spoonwood · 2020-08-21 23:10:00

Morti wrote:

Jason not adding the sling, or at least holding off on it, is trying to teach us, or convey via the game, the responsibility of caring for a child.

I don't recall any assumption that the baby would always be fed if in a sling.

Morti · 2020-08-22 00:44:07

DestinyCall wrote:

Huh.
And here I thought it was because the game engine does not support attaching two player characters together on a technical level. From what I've heard, it creates some really hilarious visual glitches/ hybrid abominations if you try and it would be a real headache to fix.
It is basically the same problem that prevents vehicles like horse carts, cars or planes from carrying passengers.

Then how does a mother pick up a child and carry them on the same tile??
Jason isn't dumb, he could make it work.
We, on the other hand...

DestinyCall · 2020-08-22 01:08:13

I don't know. You would think it wouldn't be that different, but I am not a game developer, so what do I know?

It was a highly requested feature on a modded server I used to play on a while back. Unfortunately, whatever the problem was, it wasn't a simple fix. I lack the coding knowledge to explain the issue any better.

I just know we were left holding our own babies, like a one-armed alcoholic clings to his last beer.

Morti · 2020-08-22 01:40:56

Spoonwood wrote:

Morti wrote:
Jason not adding the sling, or at least holding off on it, is trying to teach us, or convey via the game, the responsibility of caring for a child.
I don't recall any assumption that the baby would always be fed if in a sling.

I don't share that assumption either, it's the hands, that are important.

For now, we need to be taught the priorities, as to how, when, and where, to use our hands.
We need to understand, how important these extensions of our nervous, skeletal and muscular systems are, and how positive; how powerful, an influence they can have on one another, truly is. It's something more and more of our species is sorely lacking, as children, and as adults.

These hands are capable of so much more, than we are yet aware of. So much that we have forgotten, over the ages, so much we have yet to realize. Each of us with them, can do far more for one another, from simple gestures like hugs and handshakes, to our ability to control the world's most powerful machines. Typing a letter to your father, to your son, admitting your thoughts, frailties and concerns for one another.

I love you.
I'm still alive, and I still, love you.

Starting there, staying there, taking that with you everywhere you go, being inside it and trailing it around the globe-
We have to understand the power of these hands, before we plunge them into other worlds and make more of ourselves.

But for now, lifting up our children, holding their heads to our hearts and giving them a view of the world, from our height, these are the lessons we need to review. It's a big test. The biggest yet. And some of us are concerned, we see people struggling with it, we're not sure, what to do. We forget, the hands of our mothers, our fathers, and those who loved us, deep in the toybox of our memories. How important, how formative, how, influential, all those hands have been. All there is no reason, they could not still be. So long as we are still alive.

Morti · 2020-08-22 01:44:05

DestinyCall wrote:

I don't know. You would think it wouldn't be that different, but I am not a game developer, so what do I know?
It was a highly requested feature on a modded server I used to play on a while back. Unfortunately, whatever the problem was, it wasn't a simple fix. I lack the coding knowledge to explain the issue any better.
I just know we were left holding our own babies, like a one-armed alcoholic clings to his last beer.

Maybe it was just an excuse, to buy time; to find time, to work on other things, while we all mulled over the matter.

DestinyCall · 2020-08-22 16:08:36

Morti wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
I don't know. You would think it wouldn't be that different, but I am not a game developer, so what do I know?
It was a highly requested feature on a modded server I used to play on a while back. Unfortunately, whatever the problem was, it wasn't a simple fix. I lack the coding knowledge to explain the issue any better.
I just know we were left holding our own babies, like a one-armed alcoholic clings to his last beer.
Maybe it was just an excuse, to buy time; to find time, to work on other things, while we all mulled over the matter.

The people working on the modded server didn't have any reason to make excuses. If they could have done it with the existing code base, I'm sure they would have. As for why Jason has put off addressing the problem, that is a more complex issue. Perhaps he thinks it is funny?

That was his explanation for why ladies give birth while on horseback, sometimes leaving their babies behind without even noticing them. It was reported as a problem by many players who were abandoned as babies by their horse-riding mothers. But maybe that was just an excuse and he wanted it to be a metaphor for how our busy modern lives can get in the way of seeing the really important things? Something about women choosing work over family life? Or that women belong in the kitchen, making pies and babies? I don't know. I'm not very good at this.

...

On the upside, homelands has mostly solved that issue for us. No more babies when you are riding around on a horse, far from your home. No more babies at all, unless you stick close to the right well.

So I guess we just wait until Jason decides to add something to the game that requires him to fix baby transportation by accident.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-08-22 16:16:06)

mrbah · 2020-08-23 20:35:02

DestinyCall wrote:

So I guess we just wait until Jason decides to add something to the game that requires him to fix baby transportation by accident.

honestly, eventually jason will need to change the game to support propper transportation, 2 people in a vehicle, 8 people in a plane, 100 people in a train.

DestinyCall · 2020-08-24 06:57:10

I'm having a hard time imagining this game ever reaching a point where we need the ability to move a hundred people on a train. Even moving a hundred pieces of mutton would be a stretch.

mrbah · 2020-08-24 07:01:53

DestinyCall wrote:

I'm having a hard time imagining this game ever reaching a point where we need the ability to move a hundred people on a train. Even moving a hundred pieces of mutton would be a stretch.

making a cart that holds 100 objects would be trivial, the loading and unloading would be hell, though.

DestinyCall · 2020-08-24 08:11:39

My point was more "why would you even need to do it" rather than "it would be too hard to code". The game doesn't generally function on that scale.

Cogito · 2020-08-27 00:24:06

If we could build trains that held multiple people, we would build grand tours of the world. Stopping at each town, the curious and bored would climb aboard and be flung forward to the excitement of the unknown.

Some would be ill-prepared, hungry and starving, a pile of bones left by the side of the way or forgotton in some carriage. Babies would be born, already abandoned as the train flies past their mother's homeland. Death would abound.

But it would be grand.

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#1 2020-08-17 07:37:41

Animal husbandry and breeding for improvements

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Re: Animal husbandry and breeding for improvements

#3 2020-08-21 00:13:22

Re: Animal husbandry and breeding for improvements

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