My worries with the homesick update

Melea · 2020-03-12 12:51:12

How will homesickness affect new Eves? Will they not have any children until they manage to make a shovel and dig a well?

sigmen4020 · 2020-03-12 13:06:39

Melea wrote:

How will homesickness affect new Eves? Will they not have any children until they manage to make a shovel and dig a well?

I would hope not.

Gogo · 2020-03-12 15:51:33

Wait, how it will work? Family wells means if a member of your family made a well, only your family can reproduce near it? And what if your family dies, how can you know well is 'occupied' or not? And what if a brown griefer made a well near arctic, blocking gingers from making snow village?

Last edited by Gogo (2020-03-12 15:52:07)

sigmen4020 · 2020-03-12 16:02:45

Gogo wrote:

Wait, how it will work? Family wells means if a member of your family made a well, only your family can reproduce near it?

Pretty sure there will be indicators in-game showing who has claimed which well. As in you can see who has a well claimed by mousing over it.

Gogo wrote:

And what if your family dies, how can you know well is 'occupied' or not?

No idea. I would presume that it should be reclaimable by a new family somehow.

Gogo wrote:

And what if a brown griefer made a well near arctic, blocking gingers from making snow village?

I guess that's just tough luck for the ginger fam.

Gogo · 2020-03-12 16:09:45

OMG. Kingdoms will come, through wells.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-03-12 19:31:43

I think families can have multiple "homes" if they have multiple wells.
I wonder if some grieffers will try to kill a family out making a well far in the wild, a very little town surrounded in walls with no way to go out, giving birth to people in there and locking them with enough water/food to live for a couple generations.
If lucky, all girls outside the cage would be infertile after some time, and once food/water in the cage is over, whole family would die out.

It sounds fun tho

Grim_Arbiter · 2020-03-12 20:08:24

cachinnus wrote:

I know we're just spitballing here, but will Eves not have babies until they build a well? Or will you have babies if your family has no well?
… Can you raise feral kids to send packing to well sites? Is this a world domination sim? I want to be queen of the hive, please.

Im pretty sure you'll be able to have kids as an eve and could even be nomadic. It's just once you set down a well (or any of your kids) you have the homesite.

Jamie · 2020-03-12 23:49:40

An idea for easier translation. Others will understand if you read the note to them, message will auto repeat as long as you're holding it.

Gogo · 2020-03-13 01:20:31

All righty… Question. How does white ones fit in homesick update? They will get homesick too? They need to find others and there's no way we can find them (to biome specs we would have way stones). And why would someone wanted to give them oil or rubber, when they don't have anything in return?

Last edited by Gogo (2020-03-13 01:21:21)

fug · 2020-03-13 01:25:42

Gogo wrote:

All righty… Question. How does white ones fit in homesick update? They will get homesick too? They need to find others and there's no way we can find them (to biome specs we would have way stones). And why would someone wanted to give them oil or rubber, when they don't have anything in return?

White people are just trash to be fed to the wolves. You 100% require charity or your town can't function and you now can't leech off someone else who can work.

Basically just good to /die as a white person since you're basically disabled in a world where everyone else can do something useful.

Legs · 2020-03-13 02:17:35

Have you ever been born in a town where they have tech they couldn't possibly have made? A small ginger town with midgame tech and mysteriously, a bunch of bottles. Where'd they get glass? I imagine white towns will be like that. Nobody knows how, but at some point a white guy managed to get his hands on a couple horses, some sulfur and a bell. If you play your cards right you can find a brown fam to give you latex and palm. It just takes a little smooth talking, and you know that's your specialty.

pein · 2020-03-13 04:50:55

when I played more lives, every time every decent city was made by black people
I guess that makes sense since it has a different path than others, the horse is still the highest tech available solo, and a few decent players make a good town, find browns faster

whites seem to be the biggest thieves, they just steal stuff from all around
and they are the longest survivors in bell towns even if they are useless

even if blacks got the horse, browns make the most distance to help everyone out, easy to tell by the map or even the bell towers

gingers dont really make far, they also do the same thing as whites, occupy the abandoned big cities
since they can get gold they finish the bell towers, the other method is not so well known yet so only high skilled veterans do the chemistry gold
ginger cities are going well until they run out of the water, by that time they move on and they can get oil so they own the late game, not many people do the oil just because they re ginger, they hang around and don't really commit on making and distributing oil

in a 2000x1000 territory, I knew most of the abandoned cities, I did that route 2-3 times in a few lives, 3 cities were made by black people, it still had lot of resources, then a good looking city in a centrl location was made by brown people
that became the first bell town at that time
later I was born to a ginger village, it was perfect location, it still died out, and I went back several times, revived it like 5x until it had a bell lbut soon after somebody made another bell near it

the 2nd bell was actually made faster by a black family but was abandoned when the water and trees ran out, and people scavenged the shit out of it
then another black family had 3 outposts parallel to it and the next black family had 2 good cities made north of it

it's kinda obvious that black and brown needs to meet to even go above Newcomen tech level

the ugliest looking, messed up cities are made by white people that's for sure

TheRubyCart · 2020-03-13 07:08:29

Spoonwood wrote:

Didn't you say not too long ago that you hadn't played for two weeks and were happier/better off? Maybe you were on to something then Slinky.

stop trying to kill an indie game

Gogo · 2020-03-13 14:34:11

pein wrote:

the ugliest looking, messed up cities are made by white people that's for sure

That only proves psychology is very important. Whites knows they can't bring stuff for rubber, they can't make bell, so their town will be doomed.

jasonrohrer · 2020-03-13 14:41:32

Language learning currently works slowly across generations, as babies in subsequent generations learn more than their parents learned as babies. Well, up to age 6, actually.

There are also, of course, white folks, alcohol, and writing to aide in communication.

But now that you will mostly have babies separately, how will language learning work?

It can still happen, but it will have to be a bit more intentional than before. If you stand at the edge of your homeland (and homelands are close together), then you are 100 tiles away from their town center. On a road, that's a 16-second walk.

So have your girl baby on the edge, and then walk them to the other town, and either stay there for a bit (if you don't mind not having BB for a while), or just donate your BB there. If they hear any of the other lang before age 6, they pick up 10% of it (there was a no-busy-work change a while back). Then they can head home to have the next generation of BB and repeat.

So it will require a trans-generational plan for you and your offspring, but it is possible. It always required a trans-gen plan before (stay here forever, and don't leave, for 10 generations). This is a more complex plan that is less likely to happen by accident.

Jeff · 2020-03-13 15:42:34

jasonrohrer wrote:

Language learning currently works slowly across generations, as babies in subsequent generations learn more than their parents learned as babies. Well, up to age 6, actually.
There are also, of course, white folks, alcohol, and writing to aide in communication.
But now that you will mostly have babies separately, how will language learning work?
It can still happen, but it will have to be a bit more intentional than before. If you stand at the edge of your homeland (and homelands are close together), then you are 100 tiles away from their town center. On a road, that's a 16-second walk.
So have your girl baby on the edge, and then walk them to the other town, and either stay there for a bit (if you don't mind not having BB for a while), or just donate your BB there. If they hear any of the other lang before age 6, they pick up 10% of it (there was a no-busy-work change a while back). Then they can head home to have the next generation of BB and repeat.
So it will require a trans-generational plan for you and your offspring, but it is possible. It always required a trans-gen plan before (stay here forever, and don't leave, for 10 generations). This is a more complex plan that is less likely to happen by accident.

That sounds... really frustrating. Also, there's no way I'm bringing my kid that far away from the home nursery just so that someone MAYBE after several generations can speak a new language (when they could just use paper).

jasonrohrer · 2020-03-13 17:01:33

Well, your kid could also make that choice themselves, between ages 3 and 6.

voy178 · 2020-03-13 17:25:55

I like the homesick feature. It creates a concept of territory and nominal ownership. I would like it even better if there was an easier way to signal ownership to other families. We're one step closer to city-states.

Having gates towards the outside world works to keep people out, sure. If we want to trade though, then we'd need a way to signal that at the gate. Ever thought given a thought about adding a mini bell to town entrance that only gives notifications within the family-owned territory?

White people sure have a use as translators, and most seem willing to help. Imagine a world where translators expect a portion of the profits? I gave my translator a banana today as thanks for delivering a message to the ginger Argentinas about lack of oilworkers in the brown Gay family.

Gogo · 2020-03-13 18:52:31

I thought about this update and I think I was too worried about it, it brings us one more challenge beside water, to settle towns in good position near correct biome and others. Finally we've got territories in game. I need more faith in our dev God. I'm sorry I was whining.

About gates, I think it would come to this - someone would open gate and the person from other race would just take things he/she needs. Still no trading, because no one will supervise the exchange.

jasonrohrer · 2020-03-13 20:20:51

Yes, I have thought about ways to indicate territories more clearly.

Right now, you can't tell the difference between leaving your home territory and entering someone else's. You're homesick as soon as you leave.

I have thought about some sort of color overlay on the ground (like actual map colors), or maybe just at the boundary. I worry that it would look tacky.

Also, the territories are currently square and therefore kind of boring to depict visually.

Keyin · 2020-03-13 20:45:17

Jeff wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Language learning currently works slowly across generations, as babies in subsequent generations learn more than their parents learned as babies. Well, up to age 6, actually.
There are also, of course, white folks, alcohol, and writing to aide in communication.
But now that you will mostly have babies separately, how will language learning work?
It can still happen, but it will have to be a bit more intentional than before. If you stand at the edge of your homeland (and homelands are close together), then you are 100 tiles away from their town center. On a road, that's a 16-second walk.
So have your girl baby on the edge, and then walk them to the other town, and either stay there for a bit (if you don't mind not having BB for a while), or just donate your BB there. If they hear any of the other lang before age 6, they pick up 10% of it (there was a no-busy-work change a while back). Then they can head home to have the next generation of BB and repeat.
So it will require a trans-generational plan for you and your offspring, but it is possible. It always required a trans-gen plan before (stay here forever, and don't leave, for 10 generations). This is a more complex plan that is less likely to happen by accident.
That sounds... really frustrating. Also, there's no way I'm bringing my kid that far away from the home nursery just so that someone MAYBE after several generations can speak a new language (when they could just use paper).

In order to learn language 100% you'd need to co-ordinate across 10 generations or roughly ~3 1/2 hours.

Remember, one daughter doesn't get exposed to language before 6? Her progress is reset to 0. 3 hours of work gone in an instant.

So... 3 hours of tedious work or just use paper... hmm...

Honestly I think language filter learning should just be gone all together, and the cipher greatly simplified. A new biome like temperate rain-forest could replace language specialization.

; language is even more broken now just use paper/radio/emotes etc

jasonrohrer · 2020-03-13 21:25:02

No, progress is NOT reset if you skip a generation.

You inherit your mother's progress, even if you never hear the language yourself.

So if you learn 10%, and your great great granddaughter is around the language, she will bump up to 20%.

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-03-13 23:14:07

jasonrohrer wrote:

Language learning currently works slowly across generations, as babies in subsequent generations learn more than their parents learned as babies. Well, up to age 6, actually.
There are also, of course, white folks, alcohol, and writing to aide in communication.
But now that you will mostly have babies separately, how will language learning work?
It can still happen, but it will have to be a bit more intentional than before. If you stand at the edge of your homeland (and homelands are close together), then you are 100 tiles away from their town center. On a road, that's a 16-second walk.
So have your girl baby on the edge, and then walk them to the other town, and either stay there for a bit (if you don't mind not having BB for a while), or just donate your BB there. If they hear any of the other lang before age 6, they pick up 10% of it (there was a no-busy-work change a while back). Then they can head home to have the next generation of BB and repeat.
So it will require a trans-generational plan for you and your offspring, but it is possible. It always required a trans-gen plan before (stay here forever, and don't leave, for 10 generations). This is a more complex plan that is less likely to happen by accident.

Absolutely no one is going to do this. No one wants to stop everything they're doing to try to teach a baby (who could die early) something only their great great great great great grandkids could use. Not being able to talk to people is not fun. Trying to learn a language like this is even less fun.

Learning language needs to be adjusted. It is not going to work in it's present state.

fug · 2020-03-13 23:36:40

jasonrohrer wrote:

Language learning currently works slowly across generations, as babies in subsequent generations learn more than their parents learned as babies. Well, up to age 6, actually.
There are also, of course, white folks, alcohol, and writing to aide in communication.
But now that you will mostly have babies separately, how will language learning work?
It can still happen, but it will have to be a bit more intentional than before. If you stand at the edge of your homeland (and homelands are close together), then you are 100 tiles away from their town center. On a road, that's a 16-second walk.
So have your girl baby on the edge, and then walk them to the other town, and either stay there for a bit (if you don't mind not having BB for a while), or just donate your BB there. If they hear any of the other lang before age 6, they pick up 10% of it (there was a no-busy-work change a while back). Then they can head home to have the next generation of BB and repeat.
So it will require a trans-generational plan for you and your offspring, but it is possible. It always required a trans-gen plan before (stay here forever, and don't leave, for 10 generations). This is a more complex plan that is less likely to happen by accident.

Gonna have to agree with literally everyone here when I say language should be reworked because of the amount of hurdles you've got to jump through now. Before, it made sense that you slowly picked up language considering you were spending many years in contact with a different lineage but now? Now you can't even stand close to them without essentially growing a penis.

You now need to have two families build nurseries at the edge of their borders which is far away from any farms or food, but not only this it means you need to make long roads connecting these huts to both main towns so that the kids can walk back to where the action is. Also remember if these buildings are too close you might just make yourself infertile which defeats the purpose of trying to teach future generations how to talk to each other.

Legs · 2020-03-13 23:57:08

Something like, the individual child gains a small personal bonus for each line of a foreign language spoken near them and a single genetic bonus that's retained for their family line. Not the family as a whole just that individual's descendants.

That way there's a generational aspect of two languages gradually coming together and a more personal aspect involving yourself and your children. It provides an incentive to teach your immediate family for their personal improvement AND to act as a language teacher in other villages so that the newer generation can understand a little more during their lifetime.

Basically providing a greater variation in language proficiency depending on the individual ancestry and childhood environment. With a multilingual family and childhood tutor you may be fluent in 2-3 languages. Without you may only have your native language.

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#26 2020-03-12 12:51:12

Re: My worries with the homesick update

#27 2020-03-12 13:06:39

Re: My worries with the homesick update

#28 2020-03-12 15:51:33

Re: My worries with the homesick update

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#39 2020-03-13 14:34:11

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#42 2020-03-13 17:01:33

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