The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-10 23:07:01

Notice how he just keeps coming back, over and over again, under different names:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Panzram

MrGold · 2020-02-10 23:14:55

Wtf? Umm yeah?

Last edited by MrGold (2020-02-10 23:16:05)

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-02-10 23:16:54

Hope they cursed him before he died

DestinyCall · 2020-02-11 01:53:36

There are some really horrible people in this world of ours.

testo · 2020-02-11 02:45:44

Well here is a delicated selection,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s … of_victims

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-11 05:08:56

What's really crazy is that Lopez, who's second place on that list, was convicted of killing 100+ people, but later released on "good behavior," and is now at large.

fug · 2020-02-11 07:27:29

I mean for someone to change their name (hash) someone had to slip you some money at some point. I don't see the issue of repeatedly striking someone down if they're gonna keep sliding you money in an attempt to keep kicking over sand castles.

If it was an issue like discord where the trolls repeatedly make (free) accounts it would be a little different. You see the trolls in the community with three, four, or even five plus accounts for the sole sake of continuing to be a pest (while only getting banned if they were dumb enough to admit who they were.)

So yeah, charging people repeatedly for wanting to be pests = good. Letting people get away with something because they'll just come back anyways = bad.

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-11 19:20:30

Fug, the problem is not that they will keep coming back with new paid accounts.

The problem is all the effort it takes to ban them in the first place.

Even banning someone from discord, where there's a full public conversation log, takes hours of collective human time on the part of the mods.

Taking away a customer's paid-for product takes an even more detailed investigation, made even harder in a transient game world. What hard evidence do I have about what happened in some now-defunct village last week? And what automated rules can I set that won't catch the wrong person sometimes? And what is "wrong" behavior anyway? It obviously varies by context.

We're not talking about just one or two people here. We're talking about DOZENS of people. Even if I was lucky enough to be sent video evidence of their behavior, I wouldn't have time to watch all of it!

And FYI, I've never been sent video evidence---OR ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL---of anyone's griefing, despite all the complaints about it. I'm not asking for you to send me evidence. Please don't. I'm just pointing out that we're mostly dealing with hearsay and speculation. You're studying log hashes and discord activity patterns, and trying to prove who was on server12 at 3am.

That's why individual banning is simply not a tenable solution to this problem.

The solution MUST be put into the hands of the players directly for it to work----and for it to keep working long-term.

fug · 2020-02-11 20:14:39

Then make the system automated if you don't want to jump through hoops to try to ban someone. Hell, you don't even need to make it permanent in the first place if you do it right.

For example, looking back at the old curse log for time played vs amount of total curses you didn't expect players to hit 50 total curses until something like 2k hours played. What if you set it to where if you had something like 30 unique curses in a month you would be soft banned until one of those curses fell off? This would pretty comfortably align with the chart as someone with 800 hours was getting a curse every 26.66 hours and with this new system you could get a curse every 24 hours or so and be fine. The only big issue I can see is someone being dumb enough to do something really bad and earning a bunch of extra curses near the limit which would extend the ban timer which is fine in my opinion.

You could still go to low pop servers and play if you really wanted to and removing people off BS2 via cursing means it's determined by the players voting you off instead of you having to. This removes anyone having to do any sort of manual reviewing of griefing and leaves the shades of grey up to the players.

Players can't use the new curse system to abuse this unless people are randomly following your commands. "That's Dolly King, the notorious griefer!!!111." Clearly if they don't have them cursed before hand they have no idea who that guy is and it falls back onto those framing tactics some people like Aname always tried to pull. Even then, you have to be really unlucky to have people constantly trying to frame you or I guess people have to be really lucky to constantly pick you out of everyone.

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-02-11 20:18:54

You were sent a video of people griefing recently. If you didn't watch it, that's on you. I think your exact response was "wow that search feature is OP" and ignoring the main focus of the message. email

It's a handful of people ruining the game for everyone, why are they being put above players who actual value the game? They just kill and kill and kill. Stats should reveal who they are. If a person has gotten over 1k kills in a short amount of time they're not good players.

Their accounts being bricked and they have to buy a new one is a good threat. That's 20 dollars down the drain. They could keep buying accounts, but there will come a point where they don't want to keep paying for the game and stop.

I'm sorry Jason, but this is your job and responsibility. I like the new updates with the cursing, but it isn't perfect and hasn't stopped them from doing it. I'm in the discord all the time and people are always in there being frustrated about being griefed. This is a huge issue, and if you don't have the time maybe get some help with the game.

Last edited by DiscardedSlinky (2020-02-11 20:19:57)

Rose · 2020-02-11 20:23:20

jasonrohrer wrote:

Fug, the problem is not that they will keep coming back with new paid accounts.
The problem is all the effort it takes to ban them in the first place.
Even banning someone from discord, where there's a full public conversation log, takes hours of collective human time on the part of the mods.
Taking away a customer's paid-for product takes an even more detailed investigation, made even harder in a transient game world. What hard evidence do I have about what happened in some now-defunct village last week? And what automated rules can I set that won't catch the wrong person sometimes? And what is "wrong" behavior anyway? It obviously varies by context.
We're not talking about just one or two people here. We're talking about DOZENS of people. Even if I was lucky enough to be sent video evidence of their behavior, I wouldn't have time to watch all of it!
And FYI, I've never been sent video evidence---OR ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL---of anyone's griefing, despite all the complaints about it. I'm not asking for you to send me evidence. Please don't. I'm just pointing out that we're mostly dealing with hearsay and speculation. You're studying log hashes and discord activity patterns, and trying to prove who was on server12 at 3am.

That's why individual banning is simply not a tenable solution to this problem.
The solution MUST be put into the hands of the players directly for it to work----and for it to keep working long-term.

If the solution MUST be put into the hands of the players - give the players something that they can keep in their hands.

Griefers are poor parents and they themselves don't live long so they are low in leaderboard. You can use it as a weapon against them.
0 - 5 points = 1 tool slot
5 - 10 points = 2 tool slots
10 - 15 points = 3 tool slots
15 - 20 points = 4 tool slots
20 - 30 points = 5 tool slots
and a player can use a knife or bow only if he has at least 6 slots. It should eliminate most of pointless killings.

Give us please blessing token so we new who we can trust and follow.

Dodge · 2020-02-11 20:30:00

Healing each other has been fixed with the gushing wounds, the only reason villager just let themselves get killed is because the posse system is unintuitive and griefers know how to use it so they just chain kill noobs.

If it was easy to join a fight then villagers being in higher numbers would have no issue getting rid of any griefers attacking them.

Rose · 2020-02-11 20:35:10

Dodge wrote:

Healing each other has been fixed with the gushing wounds, the only reason villager just let themselves get killed is because the posse system is unintuitive and griefers know how to use it so they just chain kill noobs.
If it was easy to join a fight then villagers being in higher numbers would have no issue getting rid of any griefers attacking them.

Try explain it to new player!

Dodge · 2020-02-11 20:36:44

Rose wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Healing each other has been fixed with the gushing wounds, the only reason villager just let themselves get killed is because the posse system is unintuitive and griefers know how to use it so they just chain kill noobs.
If it was easy to join a fight then villagers being in higher numbers would have no issue getting rid of any griefers attacking them.
Try explain it to new player!

What?

Yes it should be intuitive to the point of even a new player would know how to do it.

fug · 2020-02-11 20:41:07

Rose wrote:

...Give us please blessing token so we new who we can trust and follow.

You don't need tool slots to attack people if someone else arms you so the idea of removing their tool slots has zero effect on smart griefers (oxymoron I know.)

In relation to bless tokens you aren't getting good boy points to identify people across lives. Jason is pretty firm on that one.

antking:]# · 2020-02-11 20:55:33

If we ever had blessings, griefers would probably bless other Griefers, and they would get whatever benefit that comes with blessings

Rose · 2020-02-11 21:08:09

fug wrote:

Rose wrote:
...Give us please blessing token so we new who we can trust and follow.

You don't need tool slots to attack people if someone else arms you so the idea of removing their tool slots has zero effect on smart griefers (oxymoron I know.)
In relation to bless tokens you aren't getting good boy points to identify people across lives. Jason is pretty firm on that one.

I'm not saying that my ideas are the best. You may find it stupid and OK. It doesn't matter.
But I know that we must find something against griefers or soon they will outnumber vets willing fight with them.
An average OHOL player doesn't login to be part of endless war.

fug · 2020-02-12 01:03:31

I'm not saying your idea is dumb, I'm just trying to tell you that even if you did implement the tool slot thing due to current mechanics the trolls could still grief and you'd only punish potentially good guys.

The bless idea is very clearly something Jason is against and something he worried people would use the current curse system for (basically using the black text to find each other easily.)

Dodge · 2020-02-12 01:39:35

Rose wrote:

fug wrote:
Rose wrote:
...Give us please blessing token so we new who we can trust and follow.

You don't need tool slots to attack people if someone else arms you so the idea of removing their tool slots has zero effect on smart griefers (oxymoron I know.)
In relation to bless tokens you aren't getting good boy points to identify people across lives. Jason is pretty firm on that one.
I'm not saying that my ideas are the best. You may find it stupid and OK. It doesn't matter.
But I know that we must find something against griefers or soon they will outnumber vets willing fight with them.
An average OHOL player doesn't login to be part of endless war.

If the combat system is simple then even noobs can fight and the problem is solved.

Lava · 2020-02-12 02:53:49

Start banning people with abnormally high curses

Dodge · 2020-02-12 04:26:40

Banning from playing the game is a bad idea it even opens the possibility of getting sued if you dont specificy clear rules as to what makes you banned.

But then you play a weird game where you are able to kill people in the game, it's a part of the game, but doing so can risk you getting banned from playing the said game.

Also if it's based on curses then griefer groups would curse random people and get them banned from playing, imagine the chaos and rightful angry reviews...

fug · 2020-02-12 04:51:08

Unless you're specifically gathering a large group for to basically randomly curse someone into a soft ban I can't see it happening. You would basically need people to have a bunch of accounts and then them scouting the same guy over and over and that's a lot of hoops for very little payout.

You're talking about people whose whole game play loop is:

Walking somewhere
Use the posse mechanic to abuse the 1v2 clause
Disappoint their parents
Die and repeat.

I couldn't imagine they could organize anything serious considering you seen their other thread LOL.

Dodge · 2020-02-12 07:16:28

The possibility is here, a griefer group of 10 meeting at bell tower and cursing someone random

They can do this all day all week and ban 50 people from the game, even 1 would be too much, what if that person sues the game for that, he did nothing wrong paid to use servers and now he's denied access, you can get in a lot of trouble for that.

Thinking that banning is the answer is disconnected from reality, banning someone for doing something that is part of the game is pure nonsense.

fug · 2020-02-12 07:44:00

This is why I put the threshold at 30 instead of something tiny like 10. 30 lined up pretty well considering this was around the average amount of curses someone with 800 hours played had last time he did the time played vs amount of curses on an account.

If we're at the point over half the normal players online are targeting one person to ban each hour the game is beyond redemption anyways. The main site says you have a lifetime server account it doesn't say to what server you're getting access to. Dump the trolls off on a low pop server until their threshold drops below 30 or some other reasonable number. Boom, suddenly the children have to kick over their own sand castles instead of shitting on a bunch of new players. But hey man, the 20 people one person kills < the enjoyment of one troll.

If you think leaving serial griefers running around is the answer you're misconducted from reality. Not banning people for extremely toxic behavior is complete and utter nonsense.

Dodge · 2020-02-12 08:31:22

Doesn't matter having the possibility is just not a good idea, extreme scenario some rich bored person buys 30 accounts and either bots or hire 30 people to curse someone, then that person is banned from the game for no good reason at all.

Also it's well known that curses are thrown for a yes or no, which means a "rude" player could end up getting banned from the game.

Sorry you cant play the game you're "too rude", be nicer ok?

That wont stand in court, especially in NA where they are well know to sue for everything.

Griefers are a challenge, if they abuse posse then what is the real issue?

Why are villagers getting overhwelmed by a small group?

Why nobody fights back?

Etc

That's questions to answer and the solutions to find but banning is not one since it opens the door to serious IRL issues.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-02-10 23:07:01

The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#2 2020-02-10 23:14:55

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#3 2020-02-10 23:16:54

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#4 2020-02-11 01:53:36

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#5 2020-02-11 02:45:44

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#6 2020-02-11 05:08:56

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#7 2020-02-11 07:27:29

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#8 2020-02-11 19:20:30

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#9 2020-02-11 20:14:39

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#10 2020-02-11 20:18:54

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#11 2020-02-11 20:23:20

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#12 2020-02-11 20:30:00

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#13 2020-02-11 20:35:10

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#14 2020-02-11 20:36:44

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#15 2020-02-11 20:41:07

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#16 2020-02-11 20:55:33

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#17 2020-02-11 21:08:09

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#18 2020-02-12 01:03:31

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#19 2020-02-12 01:39:35

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#20 2020-02-12 02:53:49

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#21 2020-02-12 04:26:40

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#22 2020-02-12 04:51:08

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#23 2020-02-12 07:16:28

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#24 2020-02-12 07:44:00

Re: The world's most persistent real life griefer, Carl Panzaram

#25 2020-02-12 08:31:22

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