a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Why not just give players a reason to expand rather than specialise? Living in a city state is fun and all, but it's nothing compared to an empire. Players will have more unique lives the bigger and more complex the system they are born into is. Perhaps if there was some way to reward towns that develop a wider degree of infrastructure, as well as giving them a few tools to help them do this, we could see the rise of trade and empires? Take the current system. Information exchange is limited to paper, maps and word of mouth. Word of mouth is the only way to convey a sophisticated message, and as a result players are rewarded if they stick together, as this means they can communicate. If Village A sent a trader with a cart full of rubber to Village B that was in need of a new seal for their pump, then who in Village A would know they left apart from those that saw them leave? Therefore, how can a complex trade route which is regularly supplied develop, if people cannot communicate complex information down the generations? Even if they built a road between their two villages, it would rely on future generations stumbling upon the road and wandering down it before coming to the same conclusion as their parents. But by this point they'll be old themselves XD. Imagine if there was some way to transcribe lots of information at once. The trader could comfortably write a note to the rubber farmer asking them to regularly supply rubber for the trade route without needing to spend half their life making the paper and the other half waiting to be old enough to write on it. That way the rubber farmer (and, more importantly, those that take over from them) will know what needs to be done. The same technology could also be used to inform the town that there is a road going east that requires a trader for the town to flourish, or it could be used to create a merchant republic. The possibilities for long-term endgame societal structures expand greatly when complex communication becomes possible and reliable over multiple generations. There's no point building a radio that connects to a distant city which supplies you with oil if your great grandchildren won't know who's on the other end, right?
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I don't think families are large enough for empires. Colonization? But that requires more people than a town does.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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I like tool slots. OFC you shouldn't be able to do all the things in the game. Some tool slots might be nonsensical and could use tweaking, but it's still important to note that this is a cooperative game, not a single-player game.
Most humans who made a huge impact on science and discovery did so on their own. Imagine where we would be if those people were forced to work with others in order to complete their work.
I believe that if you know how to do something you should be able to do it. Its the reward for applying yourself in this game. Tool slots are a false limit on the skills a player can provide. I think its enough of a limit how difficult it is to learn things in this game.
In reality people do do things on their own to provide for the community. You really think people who carry towns solo are being selfish? They work to benefit society as a whole, not themselves. Its petty to force people like that into constraints.
When ive been working on big projects in the past i dont ask anyone to help me or force them to do something. I work my ass off doing whatever it is. Some people will notice what im doing and help me out. Without even asking they cut my work time in half. This is not something that can be done in the current system. Someone will go man i wish i could help them but then i would be wasting two tool slots and i really want to do X this life.
Beside the biome restrictions, tool slots are the most immersion breaking thing that's ever been added to the game. Ruins the experience for me, does not make me more cooperative. Interesting attempt at promoting collaboration but fails imo.
Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-12-09 20:05:25)
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I don't think families are large enough for empires. Colonization? But that requires more people than a town does.
Yeah, that's one of the annoying parts of the game XD. But still, if we want to make complex societies and trade, some kind of complex cross-generation communication method is needed. Economies are complex things, especially if you only live for an hour. Governments and cultures are as well. If there was just some way to increase the communication potential then we could see all kinds of stuff popping up. Economics are something of a long-shot, but if villages want to trade then somebody's gotta make the contract at some point.
At the moment there are town libraries, but they are rare and limited. Usually they are full of maps, local knowledge and tips. But if you want to create more complex social structures more complex communication is required. After all, the hallmark of civilisation is the written word. If there was some high-tech way to drastically increase the number of letters that a player could transcribe then these libraries might look very different. People might read up on your towns history in the volumes of an ancient elder that all the children know the name of, or clergy would read prayers from their holy book, or the advisor would read out the exploits of the town's greatest queen to the young king-in-waiting. This might just be my personal preference, but games with a strong sense of the written word have more nuanced cultures.
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Most humans who made a huge impact on science and discovery did so on their own. Imagine where we would be if those people were forced to work with others in order to complete their work.
I disagree with this analogy. Tell me one huge impact individual who started from the wilderness and came up with anything useful at all to people already deep into civilization. People are always standing on the shoulders of giants. When someone creates something brand new for the world it's usually because they've focused on one tiny sliver of the universe for most of their life and managed to push it forward the tiniest bit, certainly with the help of some form of colleagues through their life. Even if we could imagine someone designing and building an engine by themselves they're not going to go mine and process the ore themselves, and they're probably going to have many assistants and outsource for certain tools. You're conflating invention with manufacturing I think. OHOL allegedly takes place in a post-apocalyptic future so all of the items in the game currently are not new inventions, it's just a matter of manufacturing and manufacturing requires tools, people, etc. People who work for themselves and work alone generally die alone and are forgotten, at best they can hope to have their ideas appreciated, but they're not going to roll in with a space ship if they're spending all their time sorting out how to dig around for iron ore.
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Im talking about lone wolves who made strides on their own. Issac Newton would be a notorious murderer instead of the father of calculus we know him as if forced to work with others.
Putting a limiter on people like that only limits society.
You say we stand on the shoulders of giants but what happens when a giant cant grow past 8 ft. Limiting growth only enables stagnation and a frustrating experience imo.
I like challenges. Ones i can grow and adapt to. Ones that feel good to overcome. There is no overcoming tool slots. Unless you plan on grinding for hours to get the right score. Only to have it taken away a week later.
Lets be real, the system is bad and benefits nothing. It only slows down progression just like the last few months of updates have. Instead of making interesting content all we get is sand on the fire. It makes thing predictable and boring. I dont see how anyone can enjoy this stuff. Especially when knowing it takes away from potential *real* content. Instead of wasting half a year on updates that serve no purpose other than to annoy players we could be seeing real content updates and balancing done in regards to them.
Boo!
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OHOL allegedly takes place in a post-apocalyptic future...
No, it does not. I made a mistake when I said that multiple times. It takes place in the future, but there's no supposition of some apocalypse. How things start in a world with no signs of civilization anywhere save the strange monolith isn't fleshed out. It takes place in the realm of thought-experiments.
The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.
It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.
But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans. So there was no apocalypse here. There are no ruins.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8576
If you have something that contradicts anything that I've said above, it would be interesting to know.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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jcwilk wrote:OHOL allegedly takes place in a post-apocalyptic future...
No, it does not. I made a mistake when I said that multiple times. It takes place in the future, but there's no supposition of some apocalypse. How things start in a world with no signs of civilization anywhere save the strange monolith isn't fleshed out. It takes place in the realm of thought-experiments.
jasonrohrer wrote:The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.
It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.
But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans. So there was no apocalypse here. There are no ruins.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8576
If you have something that contradicts anything that I've said above, it would be interesting to know.
Thanks for clarifying, it was probably that which I was remembering. Noted, future non-earth, though why the f the time it takes place matters when it's not earth is beyond me
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Im talking about lone wolves who made strides on their own. Issac Newton would be a notorious murderer instead of the father of calculus we know him as if forced to work with others.
Putting a limiter on people like that only limits society.
You say we stand on the shoulders of giants but what happens when a giant cant grow past 8 ft. Limiting growth only enables stagnation and a frustrating experience imo.
I like challenges. Ones i can grow and adapt to. Ones that feel good to overcome. There is no overcoming tool slots. Unless you plan on grinding for hours to get the right score. Only to have it taken away a week later.
Lets be real, the system is bad and benefits nothing. It only slows down progression just like the last few months of updates have. Instead of making interesting content all we get is sand on the fire. It makes thing predictable and boring. I dont see how anyone can enjoy this stuff. Especially when knowing it takes away from potential *real* content. Instead of wasting half a year on updates that serve no purpose other than to annoy players we could be seeing real content updates and balancing done in regards to them.
Boo!
Yeah, isaac newton is an interesting example, however, we're not producing things like calculus in OHOL... Knowledge appears to be already readily available to all somehow, it's simply a matter of creation of physical goods. I guess you could say that it's that "knowledge is readily available somehow" snag which kind of makes tool slots make sense? Like why is it that everyone just automatically knows everything from a young age, like what kind of school are they going to and where do I sign up? With tool slots it means each life you have to pick and choose what you're going to choose to excel at well enough to provide services around that skill to the village, only truly exceptional souls can master all tools... it's not a freebie, nor is it necessary to do everything yourself in a multiplayer game with cooperation as a central motif.
That all being said, I agree that it lacks a certain... oomph... like it's not exciting to be unable to do things, there's probably a "more fun" way to represent the concept of doors of other possibilities closing as you choose your life path, then again, that's a pretty depressing aspect of life and it's kind of interesting to model it in a depressing way haha yeah im torn about it clearly.
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I feel like picking anything up at an early age makes sense. Knowing what to do with it is another. Most players dont start this game knowing how to use anything or what anything is used for or what is important. We grow that knowledge and skill though perseverance and dedication. What do we get as a reward for that dedication? To be put in a box so we cant truly show our skills or apply what we've learned. Its a constraint, plain and simple.
I dont think it has a place in a game like this. Restrictions shouldnt be based around veteran players, they should be based around new to mid level players. Otherwise the non vets get burnt more than anyone. Its ignorant to expect new players to not find this as a huge road block in the learning process.
Say im new and im decent at farming but i want to learn smithing. I stabilize the farm and use up a number of my tool slots. The smith is empty so i decide to try my hand at making steel. I look it up on one tech and see that i need to make coal. The fire is about to go out so i throw some kindling on it, one more tool slot down. I throw some kindling in the the forge and light it up, another tool slot down. Collect the coal and make crucibles with wrought iron. Excited i light up the forge and grab the tongs. Except somethings wrong. I cant pick up the crucibles. I ran out of tool slots. Defeated i return to farming to help however i can with the remaining tool slots i have used.
See how this is a bad system. Artificial roadblocks that completely ruin the immersion of the game. Limit players and make experimentation a liability.
Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-12-10 07:42:35)
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Say im new and im decent at farming but i want to learn smithing. I stabilize the farm and use up a number of my tool slots. The smith is empty so i decide to try my hand at making steel. I look it up on one tech and see that i need to make coal. The fire is about to go out so i throw some kindling on it, one more tool slot down. I throw some kindling in the the forge and light it up, another tool slot down. Collect the coal and make crucibles with wrought iron. Excited i light up the forge and grab the tongs. Except somethings wrong. I cant pick up the crucibles. I ran out of tool slots. Defeated i return to farming to help however i can with the remaining tool slots i have used.
See how this is a bad system. Artificial roadblocks that completely ruin the immersion of the game. Limit players and make experimentation a liability.
Doesn't farming only require hoe skill? If I am counting right this is only hoe+hot coals + kiln +forge +tongs =5 slots.
You need to separate your own meta-knowledge from character knowledge, I think. You may know every crafting recipe in the game, but your character only knows how to do many things. Forging steel/ smithing is a difficult thing that requires specialization.
It was more immersion breaking in my mind that a master smith could also be a master chef, master bowman, master engineer, master miner, master seamstress, etc.
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Doesn't farming only require hoe skill? If I am counting right this is only hoe+hot coals + kiln +forge +tongs =5 slots.
You need to separate your own meta-knowledge from character knowledge, I think. You may know every crafting recipe in the game, but your character only knows how to do many things.
Not quite. Your character can only choose to do a certain number of things because of the number of other people in their world. It's kind of like having too many people in the world paralyzes OHOL characters from doing a bunch of different things in the world. Like the existence of other people makes them nervous about becoming a generalist. Remember, tool slots only exist when a server has 15 or more players.
Forging steel/ smithing is a difficult thing that requires specialization.
It requires specialization for OHOL characters when more than 14 characters exist in the world. Otherwise it doesn't.
It was more immersion breaking in my mind that a master smith could also be a master chef, master bowman, master engineer, master miner, master seamstress, etc.
That is still possible and actual in enough cases. Doesn't make it probable that it will happen on bs2 in the next week though.
Also, tilling with a skewer does not take up a tool slot last I knew. For hoes, it's going to cost ya.... when it can.
Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-10 10:11:01)
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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I presumed it was hoe, shovel, shears, knife, diesel well, coals, kiln. Last i checked a coal fired forge doesnt take a tool slot. Which is nice but it relies on excess coal which is rare.
I do find it immersion breaking when i go to use something and it just doesnt work. Im sure its confusing for new players as well. When the range is so big (0-19 i believe) are tool slots about creating an experience or about encouraging a playstyle? I am still under the impression its to slow down progression of the tech tree. Just like all the latest updates have been. Something that mainly affects veteran players but limits new players all the same.
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jcwilk wrote:OHOL allegedly takes place in a post-apocalyptic future...
No, it does not. I made a mistake when I said that multiple times. It takes place in the future, but there's no supposition of some apocalypse. How things start in a world with no signs of civilization anywhere save the strange monolith isn't fleshed out. It takes place in the realm of thought-experiments.
jasonrohrer wrote:The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.
It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.
But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans. So there was no apocalypse here. There are no ruins.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8576
If you have something that contradicts anything that I've said above, it would be interesting to know.
Alien zoo theory confirmed!!!
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