Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-18 22:54:43

Existing score works like this:

When an offspring dies, we compare THEIR age to YOUR current score, and your score goes up or down as a result. Your current score is an approximate average of your recent offspring's lifespans. As your score gets higher and higher, even if you help your offspring live long lives, it goes up slower and slower. Same happens when your score gets lower and lower (it starts going down slower and slower). Scores below 0 and above 60 are impossible.

Some side effects: if you get stuck with bad players as babies, your score is likely to go down no matter what you do. Same if you get stuck with good players---your score will go up, through little effort of your own.

New score works like this:

When an offspring dies, we compare THEIR age to THEIR average lifespan, and your score goes up or down. If they live longer than their usual, you gain points. If they live shorter than their usual, you lose points. Scores start at 30 for new players, and we assume their starting lifetime average is 30 as well.

Scores are now unbounded in the positive and negative directions. However, score changes shrink and grow depending on a different factor: how good the offspring generally is. Helping an expert player live until 60 will get you almost no points, while killing them off will result in a huge score drop. Likewise, helping a novice player live until 60 will result in a huge jump, while them dying young accidentally won't hurt your score very much.

Scores can become so negative that your bonus slots become negative. In the worst case, it's possible to have no tool slots (you have to kill a lot of babies to have that happen).

Scores can also climb to unknown heights, resulting in pretty much no tool slot limits for the very best and prolific players.

This new system should dramatically reduce the impact of luck.

jcwilk · 2019-11-18 23:06:22

What's the rule on suicide? Can suiciding babies take a heavy penalty to their own score and no penalty to the family, if that's not already the case? Can babies be made to not be able to escape from their mother's arms until a certain age? A mother should be able to physically overpower a suicidal child until a good few years into life no?

Keyin · 2019-11-18 23:09:48

Will the new system use the same relatives as before? So, self, mom + descendants if female or self, mom + sisters' descendants if male? If so I doubt the extreme cases of all the tool slots/ no tool slots would ever happen.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-18 23:18:54

Is there a penalty for a player suiciding? If so, then the system disrespects players trying to live on terms of their own choosing, including but not limited to when real-life things come up mid-game.

jcwilk · 2019-11-18 23:25:30

Spoonwood wrote:

Is there a penalty for a player suiciding? If so, then the system disrespects players trying to live on terms of their own choosing, including but not limited to when real-life things come up mid-game.

It's evaluating their family survival fitness. Suicidal genes make for bad family survival fitness. Play a single player game if you want no consequences to blowing off your family when their survival depends on you. Ffs heaven forbid you suffer through the tiniest bit of accountability and take responsibility for your own life irl

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-18 23:41:49

Same rules apply otherwise, including:

Suicide babies affect their own score but NOT their mother's score. This only works if the /die

Babies that die of other causes (other than /die) affect both baby and mother scores.

Babies cannot jump out of mother's arms for first year of life.

At some point in the future, I might work on abandoned baby detection, where if your mother really never picks you up, your own score doesn't get dinged. The fact that you can't run away for 10 seconds really helps here.

jcwilk · 2019-11-19 00:38:55

jasonrohrer wrote:

Same rules apply otherwise, including:
Suicide babies affect their own score but NOT their mother's score. This only works if the /die
Babies that die of other causes (other than /die) affect both baby and mother scores.
Babies cannot jump out of mother's arms for first year of life.

At some point in the future, I might work on abandoned baby detection, where if your mother really never picks you up, your own score doesn't get dinged. The fact that you can't run away for 10 seconds really helps here.

Thanks for the detail, yeah the temporarily immobile baby has been a very nice addition compared to how it used to be. Any chance of getting a 2x multiplier on the penalty for the baby for suicide? It's so annoying when they're obviously just trying to game themselves into a better situation rather than helping you get out of yours... Would be nice to have as much gentle pressure against that as possible.

Toxolotl · 2019-11-19 01:38:22

I'm very happy about this. Especially the unlimited tool slot potential. Great work, thanks Jason!

P.S. dont punish players anymore for /die. Loosing a life token is already a huge punishment. If you truly want to stop people from doing it just remove the feature. Its there for a reason jcwilks and you have no right to govern how other people choose play the game, like we have discussed before. You do you.

Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-11-19 01:44:44)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-19 01:53:16

jcwilk wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Is there a penalty for a player suiciding? If so, then the system disrespects players trying to live on terms of their own choosing, including but not limited to when real-life things come up mid-game.
It's evaluating their family survival fitness. Suicidal genes make for bad family survival fitness. Play a single player game if you want no consequences to blowing off your family when their survival depends on you. Ffs heaven forbid you suffer through the tiniest bit of accountability and take responsibility for your own life irl

Oh I see, customers opinions don't matter if you don't like them. You just tell people to stop playing if they don't like something. Yeah, not a good policy there and rather disrespectful.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-19 01:55:52

jasonrohrer wrote:

Suicide babies affect their own score but NOT their mother's score.

Yea, so if something real life comes up or a player doesn't like the town that he or she is in and takes the responsibility of trying to live elsewhere, that player gets penalized. 15+ years of game development, and you're still not respectful of players making their own decisions Jason.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-19 01:57:08

jcwilk wrote:

Thanks for the detail, yeah the temporarily immobile baby has been a very nice addition compared to how it used to be. Any chance of getting a 2x multiplier on the penalty for the baby for suicide? It's so annoying when they're obviously just trying to game themselves into a better situation rather than helping you get out of yours... Would be nice to have as much gentle pressure against that as possible.

There's nothing nice about trying to coerce someone to do something when they want to do something else. Such behavior is rude and disrespectful.

jcwilk · 2019-11-19 02:43:07

Spoonwood wrote:

Oh I see, customers opinions don't matter if you don't like them. You just tell people to stop playing if they don't like something. Yeah, not a good policy there and rather disrespectful.

I mean... You know I'm a customer too right? I just spend too much time on the forums I don't work here xD it's super normal to penalize heavily for people abandoning mp ranked games, generic score is currently, perhaps inappropriately, doubling as a rank. If you want an unranked option then play on a local server or one of the secondary servers I vaguely remember something about it not being ranked if there's not enough people playing?

Toxolotl · 2019-11-19 03:28:26

Jcwilk, if you want what you're asking for and wish to control how other people play go find a game that suits your desire rather than attempting to corrupt one that has the potential to truly shine a light on human behavior.

You're disrespectful to anyone who is contrary to your opinions and you belittle them by acting like you are in the majority. If you want a true pvp ranked game go find one that actually functions that way. The beauty of this game is that it is defined by its playerbase, guided by jason. A good life is up to interpretation and shouldn't be defined by some silly score. Im happy its more flexible now but what you expect is ridiculous.

Players will always find a way to play the way they want to. Even if it hurts them. What you seem to want is a system that forces everyone to play the way you want them to. Get off your high horse and have some respect for those around you and the visions of the developer of this game.

You are not better than anyone and if you want your suggestions to be taken seriously you better have some profound evidence to back them up. Freedom of expression is the beauty of an artform and if people were forced into rigid structures without any leniency everything in life would be monotonous. I think its clear by now i grossly disagree with your point of view. Dont worry though, im not giving up. Ill be here every step of the way, the contrary force to your bs.

Gomez · 2019-11-19 03:41:12

cool i've been getting huge fitness hits from yumming and suicide babies

Dodge · 2019-11-19 05:01:30

Spoonwood wrote:

jcwilk wrote:
Thanks for the detail, yeah the temporarily immobile baby has been a very nice addition compared to how it used to be. Any chance of getting a 2x multiplier on the penalty for the baby for suicide? It's so annoying when they're obviously just trying to game themselves into a better situation rather than helping you get out of yours... Would be nice to have as much gentle pressure against that as possible.
There's nothing nice about trying to coerce someone to do something when they want to do something else. Such behavior is rude and disrespectful.

rude and disrespectful? that's rich coming from you

If you still dont understand that you are not supposed to be able to choose your life and it's about dealing with the cards you are dealt with i'm sorry for you

Do you choose where and how you are born IRL?

Born rich, poor, sick, healthy,ugly,handsome etc all these you dont choose but what you do choose is what you are going to do with this situation with these cards you've been dealt with, it may not be the best cards in the deck but it's all about what you do with them.

And that's the only thing that matters.

jcwilk · 2019-11-19 05:08:32

Toxolotl wrote:

Players will always find a way to play the way they want to. Even if it hurts them. What you seem to want is a system that forces everyone to play the way you want them to. Get off your high horse and have some respect for those around you and the visions of the developer of this game.

Christ, chill. I'm not, nor am I able to, force anyone to do anything. All I can do is have opinions and argue them with logic, same as you.

However, I could not care less about what other players want, what the majority wants, what you want, unless they can argue that it aligns with Jason's stated high level goals for the game better than what his current direction is. I happen to generally be in agreement with (almost) all of his high level goals, and am generally pleased with how he approaches them, even if his process isn't what my process would be (and I'm humble enough to know that in all likeliness his process is way closer to ideal given how many amazingly intriguing games he's pumped out over the years flying solo, it's truly incredible). I enjoy spending time on these forums and following his game for these reasons, and if he sold out and started stuffing the game full of softcore gacha microtransaction co-op garbage to satisfy and suck in as many sales as possible I would most certainly not be here, but that's not the kind of game designer he is.

So yeah, I'm just super confused about why there are all these super vocal people that seem to hate his goals and methodologies yet still spend a ton of time on the forums and playing and excelling at his game. Like why can't you guys just be positive and support him in his efforts? You think it's easy to go day in day out by oneself supporting a family ignoring piles of complaints everyday to keep producing what he believes in? He's a goddamn superhero and you guys have nothing better to say about it than "gee i wish you cared about the things I cared about"

How about read what the game is about from him, decide whether you're in or out, and quit whining about your own irrelevant shit. I'm not the dev, you're not the dev, he is. So help him refine things towards his goals or why are you here?

Toxolotl · 2019-11-19 05:50:23

jcwilk wrote:

I could not care less about what other players want, what the majority wants, what you want, unless they can argue that it aligns with Jason's stated high level goals for the game better than what his current direction is

This is abundantly clear. By Jason's goals im sure you mean your own.

What you are is a kiss ass who hides behind Jason's leg even if he doesnt want you there. Friction creates heat and change. If you cant handle it then go away. To pretend like yours and jason's visions are the same and belittle anyone who disagrees with you is naive. You dont know what he truly wants and there are no sides to choose. You act like you're white knighting for him when in reality you're just trying to stifle others from expressing themselves. Especially if they contradict your views.

People have the right to express themselves in their interpretation of art and entertainment. Its up to the artist to interpret it to their own benefit or detriment. The choice is theirs, not yours jcwilk. You act like you speak for jason or you have this lofty view over everything but in reality you just talk out of your ass and act like you know everything.

Jason is smart enough to discern what is just salty rambling from true issues with the game. I have issues with the latest updates, sure. What i truly resent is people trying to quiet the reception and evaluations of these updates. People like you jcwilk. So why not take yourself down a peg and realize you're not better than anyone else on this forum.

Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-11-19 07:39:32)

jcwilk · 2019-11-19 06:06:15

Toxolotl wrote:

What you are is a kiss ass who hides behind Jason's leg even if he doesnt want you there.

Ngl, got me there xD Don't think he's a fan after I disappeared awhile back and came back with big ideas built on out of date experience, not that he has time to care about individual players.

We're mostly in agreement but you and spoonwood seem to do a lot of "well I know what players in general want which is not what Jason thinks they want and this game would be so much more popular if he just X, Y, and Z" which is the main bullshit I pile on against. I put effort into tying my pedantic shit into his stated goals, not into the goals I think he should have, but the reasons he's given for the changes he's making. But sure I'm sure there's some of my own shit woven in there too. How about we both agree to put aside our perceptions of what makes a good game, what the playerbase really wants, what really makes sales, what success really is, and instead stick to his stated goals around features he's releasing and iterating on. Surely that's not too jcwilk-oriented?

Toxolotl · 2019-11-19 06:17:51

I do my best to exclusively express my own interpretations and not presume i know the point of view of others. I'm happy to set aside our differing perspectives for now. I look forward to debating with you in the future.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-19 06:48:22

I may actually start caring about my score after this update if it really won't be that luck based. Infinite skill slots sounds exciting :P Currently I didn't care to have one more or one less slot.

Keyin · 2019-11-19 06:58:50

Wow, update must be live.

My score was at 52 and it still went up almost a point when I lived to 60 as Kiran Rose

Even when my score was 53.67 it went up 0.14 from living till 28.2

Spoonwood · 2019-11-19 07:32:20

Dodge wrote:

rude and disrespectful? that's rich coming from you
If you still dont understand that you are not supposed to be able to choose your life and it's about dealing with the cards you are dealt with i'm sorry for you

I understand that is what Jason *supposes*. But, that's his supposition. I don't suppose any such thing and won't in the future, thank you. If you don't understand that I can and do have a different supposition, that' son you.

Dodge wrote:

Do you choose where and how you are born IRL?

We aren't talking about real life. People aren't interested in exact simulations of reality. They aren't interested in real play. If they were, they would not be interested in playing any sort of game to begin with, which by nature requires a suspension of belief. They would just do something else with their time. People are interested in imaginative scenarios, in other words, role play, and any time they play a game that's what they are doing and will be doing.

Dodge wrote:

Born rich, poor, sick, healthy,ugly,handsome etc all these you dont choose but what you do choose is what you are going to do with this situation with these cards you've been dealt with, it may not be the best cards in the deck but it's all about what you do with them.
And that's the only thing that matters.

In the context of what should happen in OHOL it matters only to the extent that it's your opinion.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-19 07:45:33

jcwilk wrote:

However, I could not care less about what other players want, what the majority wants, what you want, unless they can argue that it aligns with Jason's stated high level goals for the game better than what his current direction is.

Then you don't want a good game. All you want is what Jason believes will work, not what the majority of players want.

jcwilk wrote:

I happen to generally be in agreement with (almost) all of his high level goals, and am generally pleased with how he approaches them, even if his process isn't what my process would be (and I'm humble enough to know that in all likeliness his process is way closer to ideal given how many amazingly intriguing games he's pumped out over the years flying solo, it's truly incredible).

There's nothing incredible about it. His process is way off base. He won't hire help. He doesn't listen to negative criticism from his community well. He doesn't respect that people know their desires and can state them. 15+ years of game development and he hasn't got a clue about how to have a happy playerbase. He even knows that he doesn't have a happy playerbase as he has tried to say that we complain too much on more than one ocassion. 15+ years of game development, and he still doesn't know that he can use help, and that the preferences of his players matter to how well his game does.

jcwilk wrote:

I enjoy spending time on these forums and following his game for these reasons, and if he sold out and started stuffing the game full of softcore gacha microtransaction co-op garbage to satisfy and suck in as many sales as possible I would most certainly not be here, but that's not the kind of game designer he is.

By your own premise he would have more sales. That would mean satisfying more people and thus having a better game. You're right, that's not the kind of designer he is. 15+ years of game development and he still can't maximize sales.

jcwilk wrote:

So yeah, I'm just super confused about why there are all these super vocal people that seem to hate his goals and methodologies yet still spend a ton of time on the forums and playing and excelling at his game.

Some of those people don't play so much anymore if they play at all.

jcwilk wrote:

Like why can't you guys just be positive and support him in his efforts?

Because we payed for the game and didn't get what we expected, or can see how it could be better. Also, your question suggests that you just want 'yes people', not people who think for themselves.

jcwilk wrote:

You think it's easy to go day in day out by oneself supporting a family ignoring piles of complaints everyday to keep producing what he believes in?

I do think it's easy to go day in and day out ignoring piles of complaints to keep producing what one believes in. I think it's easy to selfishly produce a game consistent with preconceived notions (note, I'm not saying the coding is easy). It doesn't require rethinking. It doesn't require humility. It doesn't require that one would have to re-evaluate what one thinks of other people's preferences. It doesn't require listening. It doesn't require considering input from others seriously. It doesn't require accepting negative criticism.

jcwilk wrote:

He's a goddamn superhero and you guys have nothing better to say about it than "gee i wish you cared about the things I cared about"

No, he's not saving people's lives or fighting crime. Please.

jcwilk wrote:

How about read what the game is about from him, decide whether you're in or out, and quit whining about your own irrelevant shit. I'm not the dev, you're not the dev, he is. So help him refine things towards his goals or why are you here?

His goals are meaningless without interested players. And his goals aren't on target. If they were, the game wouldn't have declined so much in player population over the past year. How about you get your head out of the sand and realize that popularity of a game means something, and so does declining/stagnating player count.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-19 07:53:10

jcwilk wrote:

How about we both agree to put aside our perceptions of what makes a good game, what the playerbase really wants, what really makes sales, what success really is, and instead stick to his stated goals around features he's releasing and iterating on. Surely that's not too jcwilk-oriented?

How about you consider those goals more carefully.

One of them included that people would usually build walled towns. But then that happened, and why were players building walled towns? Because of high levels of griefing. And high levels of griefing drive away players in multiplayer games. So there's a problem. Jason's goal of players having walled towns doesn't seem at all compatible with popularity of the game. And thus his goal wasn't a good one.

Also, his goals aren't in the program. They are only in his head. People get to play the game as it is, and have their own goals in game. And they paid for the game, he didn't. So, their goals end up mattering more. Of course, that's when they have in game goals.

Dodge · 2019-11-19 08:18:02

Note to self: stop wasting time with Spoonwood

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-11-18 22:54:43

Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#2 2019-11-18 23:06:22

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#3 2019-11-18 23:09:48

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#4 2019-11-18 23:18:54

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#5 2019-11-18 23:25:30

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#6 2019-11-18 23:41:49

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#7 2019-11-19 00:38:55

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#8 2019-11-19 01:38:22

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#9 2019-11-19 01:53:16

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#10 2019-11-19 01:55:52

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#11 2019-11-19 01:57:08

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#12 2019-11-19 02:43:07

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#13 2019-11-19 03:28:26

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#14 2019-11-19 03:41:12

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#15 2019-11-19 05:01:30

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#16 2019-11-19 05:08:32

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#17 2019-11-19 05:50:23

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#18 2019-11-19 06:06:15

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#19 2019-11-19 06:17:51

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#20 2019-11-19 06:48:22

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#21 2019-11-19 06:58:50

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#22 2019-11-19 07:32:20

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#23 2019-11-19 07:45:33

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#24 2019-11-19 07:53:10

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

#25 2019-11-19 08:18:02

Re: Coming Soon: Genetic score changes

Board footer