*Suggestion* Professional Titles

DestinyCall · 2019-11-05 23:41:39

I brought this up elsewhere, but it was buried in other threads discussing related topics. This is an idea for an alternative skill system, instead of tool slots.

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Rather than grouping skills based on the tool that you use, I think it would make more sense to group skills together by profession. Many tools are used to do a variety of very different things (adobe kiln used to bake pies and cook tires - not the same thing at all) and many of those interactions don't require special skill (boiling water on hot coals). While other things SHOULD require some kind of skill check (crafting intricate steel parts or using a bow/arrow). Also, the current system doesn't provide good player feedback regarding the skills possessed by yourself or other players. Who can use the smithing hammer? Which person can bake pies? Who is able to shear sheep? We do not know.

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Here's an idea ... professional titles that confer special skills. When you approach adulthood (16 years old and beyond), you can claim a profession using a text command ... for example, "I am a baker." Once you have declared your profession, you gain the associated title "Tom Johnson the Baker", which can be viewed by other players. From this point onward, you are a baker and can do baker things better than non-bakers. At any time, you can change your profession, "I am a smith." .... maybe you tried out being a baker, but it wasn't the right fit, so you decided to change careers. No problem, now you are Tom Johnson the Smith and have access to smithing skills. You can change jobs as much as you like without direct penalty or special training. But if you remain in a particular profession long enough, you will eventually master it.

After twenty minutes (twenty years working in the same profession), you will become a senior smith or senior farmer or whatever. Now you are even better at your chosen profession and gain additional benefits for choosing to specialize, rather than job-hopping forever. Since you can't pick a specific job until you are 16 and it takes twenty years to reach mastery in a given field ... and you will be dead by sixty ... you can only master one profession each life. You can change jobs a lot as a young person, but the more time you spend in different jobs, the less time you will have as a master of your chosen field later in life. And if you die before reaching forty or change jobs too much when you are younger, you will not reach seniority and won't get the additional benefits. If you reach senior level and decide to switch professions, you lose seniority, so either stick with your chosen job at that point or take the demotion.

If you are under sixteen years old, your title will be "child" (Mary Dover the Child). When you reach adulthood, the professional title will change to "villager" (Mary Dover the Villager). Villagers and children do not have any special skills (although kids could have additional restrictions to limit child labor). The change in your character model when you turn sixteen and the title change will signal that you are now an adult and ready to choose a career path (like when you grow hair as a toddler and can start using objects).

In this system, it would benefit you to seek out a smith or senior smith (or whatever) when you need to do a specialty job that is outside of your field of expertise. And it would be important to decide on a career path relatively early on in your life. Once you master a given field, you would want to actually use your specialized skills, rather than changing your skill set again and again to fit the situation. And as a child, you would want to get to know the village and figure out what skills will be needed - if the senior baker is getting really old, you might want to become her apprentice before your village runs out of tasty pies.

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So what does it mean to be a "farmer" or "senior farmer"? What about "smith" and "senior smith"? What is the difference between a baker and a non-baker? There are a number of ways this could be handled, depending on how exactly Jason wants skills to work. One option would be to lock certain transitions - only bakers can bake pies. Only senior bakers can bake the best pies. Only smiths can smith tools. Only senior smiths can smith the most advanced tools/tech. Only farmers can farm/harvest crops. Only senior farmers can farm/harvest the most advanced/specialized crops. That is how the tool slots work. But I don't like it. It punishes people for not picking the right job and it feels like you might be missing out or picking wrong.

Alternatively, I would prefer a failure/boon system. Non-bakers can bake, but there is a 20% chance for a failure - burnt pie (half value or inedible). Bakers can bake well - 10% chance of burnt pie and 10% chance of tasty pie (double value). Master bakers can bake even better - 20% chance of tasty pie, no failure risk. Non-farmers can farm, but there is a 20% chance of rotten harvest (inedible). Farmers can farm well - 10% chance of rotten harvest, 10% chance of double harvest (two crops instead of one). Master farmers can farm even better - 20% chance of double harvest, no failure risk. Non-smith can smith, but 20% chance of creating twisted iron when using the smithing hammer (requires reforging in scrap bowl). Smiths can smith well - 10% chance of twisted iron and 10% chance of crafting durable tools (double uses) when making finished tools. Master smiths can smith even better - 20% chance of durable tools, no failure risk.

Each profession would have a few skills that are special to that job. And these special interactions would have the possibility of a positive and negative outcome. These boons and failures could be unique for each profession and make each job FEEL different from the next one. For example, some tools could be dangerous to use if you are unskilled. Chopping trees without learning the ways of the lumberjack could put you at risk of suffering injury. While a skilled lumberjack would have no risk of injury and the chance to get double logs/firewood. And attempting to heal people without being a trained doctor might result in a failure that wastes a sterile pad without healing your patient. Someone who tries to fire a bow without learning how to hunt first, might end up with a self-inflicted arrow wound.

Each profession grants you access to certain special abilities and reduces risk when attempting skill-based activities. Anyone can help prepare ingredients and put together pies, but only a baker or master baker should bake the pies. Anyone can make charcoal and smelt iron, but only a smith should use the hammer. Anyone can make rows of dirt, plant seeds, and water crops, but only a farmer should harvest the crops when they are ready. However, if the smith is dead and you need a new shovel, Farmer Bob can do what needs to be done to keep the village alive. Or if the town is being attacked by a bear, Senior Baker Mary might take the chance of hurting herself to kill the beast and protect her grandchildren.

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I considered some kind of actual job experience requirement for declaring or advancing in a profession, but I feel like it adds an unnecessary layer of complexity without really providing much from a gameplay perspective. I don't want professions to feel grindy - "I must bake exactly ten pies to become a master baker, oh no ... I only have enough wheat for eight pies. I guess I am stuck as a regular baker until the farmer harvests more wheat." This encourages you to play a job mastery mini-game, that won't always match up with the realities of your village or its needs. There is a high chance it will end up feeling artificial and too gamey. I'd rather keep the focus on the decision to pick the right profession for you and for your village and then to aim to utilize your advantages while avoiding your weaknesses. The time requirement is important, because it rewards deciding on a profession early and sticking with your choice. You can keep changing jobs to gain the basic advantages, but if you do that, you will end up a "Jack of all trades, master of none", never reaching master level in any of your many jobs.

Anyone who has reached a senior rank will be in their forties or fifties in game years. They will soon be an elder and need to be replaced by younger skilled workers. As a child in the village, you can look around to see who is "senior smith" or "senior baker" and if the village has any younger bakers or smiths yet. Ideally, most early villages will need at least a few key positions filled, with other players just picking up work where they find it... but larger towns will have many more jobs that need doing and might even need engineers, tailors, carpenters, hunters, masons ... and more! This means more unique jobs held by different players and valued by others.

Also, keep in mind that whatever you pick as a profession will impact the choices of other players. If I am almost sixteen and deciding on my job, I will probably look around to see what needs to be done. If I see my village has one senior smith and three regular smiths, I probably will not become a smith. But if I see we have only one baker and the pies are running low, I might pick that job for myself. When my younger brother is born, he will see the village has a senior baker and me, so he might decide to be a farmer instead of baking. If I decide to change my profession later on because I can't find a smith to make a new hoe so I can farm wheat ... and the senior baker dies of old age while I'm working the forge ... suddenly our village won't have any bakers. And because I changed jobs, it will be a long time before we have a senior baker, even if I switch back as soon as I notice the problem. Because your title is visible to other people, it serves as a passive way to communicate your skill set to other players. I don't need to ASK if you know how to bake pies. I know you are a baker, because the game tells me when I look at your name. I don't need to keep track of what tools I've learned in this life, I can just look at my own name to see that I chose to be a "hunter" and so I know how to use the bow and maybe I am also very good at harvesting meat from animals, so I get extra meat when slaughtering pigs/sheep. With this kind of system, each profession can give unique and useful benefits and remove penalties in a dynamic way that is logical and intuitive.

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The key difference between my suggestion and the current skill system would be that when you chose a profession, your choice is clearly VISIBLE to other players ("John Smith the Baker"), so it would be easier to find someone who has a particular skill set and you are rewarded for sticking with the same job for most of your adult life (not punished for using up your skill slots too quickly). And another important difference would be that you could still attempt skill-based tasks, even if you don't have the proper training. Instead of a binary outcome - success or nothing - you have an interesting choice. Is it better to do it yourself and risk failure or is it better to change your profession to improve your odds of a favorable outcome (but potentially sacrifice mastery of your chosen profession) or is it better to find someone else to help you accomplish this skill-based activity?

You aren't boxed into a single path. You have multiple options available, so when you decide to seek out a professional to help you, it is because it you have decided it is the BEST choice. Not because you ran out of skill slots so you have no other option. The game rewards you for sticking with a particular career path and it also helps you to find other players who have the skills you need to accomplish your personal goals. I'd also keep the number of professional skills relatively limited. There just aren't that many adult players in the average village, so you don't want to overburden the job tree with a lot of useless career paths. It doesn't make sense to have a professional horse tamer in your village, for example. Fewer unique jobs also means it will be easier to learn the rules and remember which tasks involve a skill check. This system would also mean that two professions might overlap on certain things. For example, slaughtering sheep might be a skill known to hunters AND shepherds. Lastly, it means that each individual in the village can't be the BEST at every job, just because they've learned all the steps. If you try to do everything by yourself, you will struggle and it will be hard and you will make mistakes that cost precious resources. You have to decide what is important and your choices will matter. Maybe in this life, you are the best at baking pies, but in your next life, you might be the best at making clothes or hunting turkey or farming carrots. And if you aren't very good at baking pies, you might need to ask your sister the Baker for help finishing off a batch of tasty pies, instead of putting on a chef hat and doing it all by yourself in this life. You will benefit from relying on other people to carry part of the load and they will benefit from your work. And that makes sense, because you are all part of the same community.

Starting off with just three core professions - smith, farmer, baker - might be a good way to test out the system and see if it makes a positive difference on player experience and game-play. Every village could use a few people in these jobs and it is always good to know who they are and if they are still working.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-06 05:15:52)

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-06 00:10:37

I didn't read whole post but I like this idea more than current tool system that is very bad.

DestinyCall wrote:

you can claim a profession using a text command ... for example, "I am a baker."

This is not should it work, it's not a text game. I know it's much easier to programm it like this but that doesn't mean it should be done like this only because it's easier to programm it. A visual interface should be done here. A "profession" icon should appear once you are 16yo (or whatever age) and after clicking it, all proffesions with icons should appear - ideally explaining given profession when hovering cursor over it.

miskas · 2019-11-06 00:18:52

I would love it if we could attach our Profession's main tool to our backpacks to show our Expertise and we can ask people if we need something from them.

Destiny plz a TLDR. or underline the main idea.

eajorstad · 2019-11-06 00:28:33

i like this idea lot. Esp if we were able to somehow make uniforms to go along with

DestinyCall · 2019-11-06 00:41:25

eajorstad wrote:

i like this idea lot. Esp if we were able to somehow make uniforms to go along with

My original idea involved hats, but I got stuck on what a "smith hat" should look like, so I figured titles might be easier. I still like the idea of a visual cue, so you would not need to hover over each person.

Straw hat for farmer, wolf hat for hunter, chef hat for cook ... you could put hats on your kids to assign jobs. It would be fun. :-)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-06 01:03:00

miskas wrote:

Destiny plz a TLDR. or underline the main idea.

TLDR - replace tool slots with player-assigned professions.

At 16 years old, you can pick a job - baker, smith, farmer, whatever.
Your current job is displayed after your name, like a title. (I.e. Nancy James the Doctor).
Each job grants benefits when performing certain transitions, like baking pies or crafting tools.
Keep the same job for twenty years (20 min) and you reach senior rank.

For example:
Non-bakers have a higher chance to fail when baking pies.
Baker burns fewer pies and has a chance to bake extra tasty pie.
Senior baker never burns pie and has higher chance to make tasty pie.

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Pie baking is a baker skill. Your odds of success depend on a skill check. Other aspects of cooking would not need to be skill based. No skill check when adding water to flour or grinding wheat or adding filling to pie crust, for example. You can't "fail" to grind wheat correctly. Skill checks only occur for certain transitions that might have a positive or negative outcome, depending on your skill level which is determined by your job. Skill checks would be carefully chosen and individually tailored to each profession so they make sense and feel important/logical. Each skill check has three possible outcomes - good, bad, or neutral.

Pie baking Skill Check: Burnt pie <- normal pie -> tasty pie.

Best outcome never happens for unskilled player. (tasty pie)
Worst outcome never happens for senior skilled player. (burnt pie)
Most common outcome is neutral for all skill levels. (normal pie)

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Current job is visible to yourself and other players.
You can change jobs as much as you like - you are not locked in.
Due to time constraints, you will only reach senior rank in one job each life.
Keep in mind that you will pick your first job at 16 years old and it takes 20 min to master, so you will be 40 or 50 years old when you hit seniority. And you die at 60 years old.
There is no time to master two professions, but you could work a bunch of odd jobs, as long as you don't mind being a little worse at them, compared with a specialist.
You lose senior rank when switching jobs - stick with what you know best or your skills get rusty.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-06 01:28:51)

Joseph Stalin · 2019-11-06 02:19:47

I like

DestinyCall · 2019-11-06 20:48:54

Coconut Fruit wrote:

I didn't read whole post but I like this idea more than current tool system that is very bad.
DestinyCall wrote:
you can claim a profession using a text command ... for example, "I am a baker."
This is not should it work, it's not a text game. I know it's much easier to programm it like this but that doesn't mean it should be done like this only because it's easier to programm it. A visual interface should be done here. A "profession" icon should appear once you are 16yo (or whatever age) and after clicking it, all proffesions with icons should appear - ideally explaining given profession when hovering cursor over it.

I wouldn't mind some kind of visual interface for selecting a profession, but OHOL has very minimal HUD currently. Since the titles are sort of like names and we already name ourselves and our babies using text commands, it feels like a reasonable and relatively intuitive option.

You can see other people and know their professional titles, so even if you are new to the game, it should be possible to figure out what to do in game.

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#1 2019-11-05 23:41:39