Anyone else hate this new tool update?

CatX · 2019-11-05 14:47:22

I still think it might be a good idea if people could teach each other tools, and teaching increased the number of skill slots.
So if you don't have any teachers, you're able to learn less in one lifetime. If you have teachers, you learn more.
The teaching itself might be a moment of bonding with your fellow villagers.

Ilka · 2019-11-05 16:18:57

DestinyCall wrote:

Here's an idea ... professional titles that convey skill. When you approach adulthood (16 years old and beyond), you can claim a profession using a text command ... for example, "I am a baker." Once you have declared your profession, you gain the associated title "Tom Johnson the Baker", which can be viewed by other players. From this point onward, you are a baker and can do baker things better than non-bakers. At any time, you can change your profession, "I am a smith." .... maybe you tried out being a baker, but it wasn't the right fit, so you decided to change careers. No problem, now you are Tom Johnson the Smith and have access to smithing skills. You can change jobs as much as you like without direct penalty or special training. But if you remain in a particular profession long enough, you will eventually master it.
After twenty minutes (twenty years working in the same profession), you will become a master smith or master farmer or whatever. Now you are even better at your chosen profession and gain additional benefits for choosing to specialize, rather than job-hopping forever. Since you can't pick a job until you are 16 and it takes twenty years to reach mastery in a given field ... and you will be dead by sixty ... you can only master one profession each life. You can change jobs a lot as a young person, but the more time you spend in different jobs, the less time you will have as a master of your chosen field later in life. And if you die before reaching forty or change jobs too much, you will never reach master level. If you reach master and switch professions, you lose mastery, so either stick with your chosen job at that point or take the hit.
In this system, it would benefit you to seek out a master smith or master farmer or whatever when you need to do a specialty job that is outside of your field of expertise. And it would be important to decide on a career path relatively early on in your life. Once you master a given field, you would want to actually use your specialized skills, rather than changing your skill set again and again to fit the situation. And as a child, you would want to get to know the village and figure out what skills will be needed - if the master baker is getting really old, you might want to become her apprentice before your village runs out of tasty pies.
...
So what does it mean to be a "farmer" or "master farmer"? What about "smith" and "master smith"? What is the difference between a baker and a non-baker? There are a number of ways this could be handled, depending on how exactly you want skills to work. One option would be to lock certain transitions - only bakers can bake pies. Only master bakers can bake the best pies. Only smiths can smith tools. Only master smiths can smith the most advanced tools/tech. Only farmers can farm/harvest crops. Only master farmers can farm/harvest the most advanced/specialized crops.
Alternatively, I would prefer a failure/boon system. Non-bakers can bake, but there is a 20% chance for a failure - burnt pie (half value or inedible). Bakers can bake well - 10% chance of burnt pie and 10% chance of tasty pie (double value). Master bakers can bake even better - 20% chance of tasty pie, no failure risk. Non-farmers can farm, but there is a 20% chance of rotten harvest (inedible). Farmers can farm well - 10% chance of rotten harvest, 10% chance of double harvest (two crops instead of one). Master farmers can farm even better - 20% chance of double harvest, no failure risk. Non-smith can smith, but 20% chance of creating twisted iron when using the smithing hammer (requires reforging in scrap bowl). Smiths can smith well - 10% chance of twisted iron and 10% chance of crafting durable tools (double uses) when making finished tools. Master smiths can smith even better - 20% chance of durable tools, no failure risk.
Each profession grants you access to certain special abilities and reduces risk when attempting skill-based activities. Anyone can help prepare ingredients and put together pies, but only a baker or master baker should bake the pies. Anyone can make charcoal and smelt iron, but only a smith should use the hammer. Anyone can make rows of dirt, plant seeds, and water crops, but only a farmer should harvest the crops when they are ready. However, if the smith is dead and you need a new shovel, Farmer Bob can do what needs to be done to keep the village alive.

DestinyCall wrote:

I considered some kind of actual job experience requirement for declaring or advancing in a profession, but I feel like it adds an unnecessary layer of complexity without really providing much from a gameplay perspective. I don't want professions to feel grindy - "I must bake exactly ten pies to become a master baker, oh no ... I only have enough wheat for eight pies. I guess I am stuck as a regular baker until the farmer harvests more wheat." This encourages you to play a job mastery mini-game, that won't always match up with the realities of your village or its needs. There is a high chance it will end up feeling artificial and too gamey. I'd rather keep the focus on the decision to pick the right profession for you and for your village and then to aim to utilize your advantages while avoiding your weaknesses. The time requirement is important, because it rewards deciding on a profession early and sticking with your choice. You can keep changing jobs to gain the basic advantages, but if you do that, you will end up a "Jack of all trades, master of none", never reaching master level in any of your many jobs.
It might even be better to call the advanced title "senior baker" or "senior farmer" to emphasize that this is a rank achieved due to time in the field. This also fits nicely with the fact that anyone who has reached a senior rank will be in their forties or fifties. They will soon be an elder and need to be replaced by younger skilled workers. As a child in the village, you can look around to see who is "senior smith" or "senior baker" and if the village has any younger bakers or smiths yet. Ideally, most early villages will need at least a few key positions filled, with other players just picking up work where they find it... but larger towns will have many more jobs that need doing and might even need engineers, tailors, carpenters, masons ... and more! This means more unique jobs held by different players and valued by others.
Also, keep in mind that whatever you pick as a profession will impact the choices of other players. If I am fourteen and I see my village has one senior smith and three regular smiths, I probably will not become a smith. But if I see we have only one baker and the pies are running low, I might pick that job for myself. When my younger brother is born, he will see the village has a senior baker and me, so he might decide to be a farmer instead of baking. If I decide to change my profession later on because I can't find a smith to make a new hoe so I can farm wheat ... and the senior baker dies of old age while I'm working the forge ... suddenly our village won't have any bakers. And because I changed jobs, it will be a long time before we have a senior baker, even if I switch back as soon as I notice the problem.
Now imagine the chaos that could be caused by a random murderer ...

Very good ideas, Destiny, although I would prefer there are no penalties for non-professionals.

I think that awards for specialists would suffice.

When it comes to updating tools, when I have 8 place for tools, I don't mind that much.

When I am only 6 places it starts to be a problem.

Also, some tools are irrational (e.g. hot coals).

Seriously?

Placing the bowl on hot coals really does not require any practice.

I don't like Jason's approach in this patch and others.

He generally uses the carrot and stick method.

Only he forgot about carrots a long time ago.

It looks like this:

- you don't want to make clothes and build houses? I will force you- correct the temperature
- you don't want to build fences? I will force you- swords,
- you don't want to make engines? I will force you - three restrictions on water resources,
- you don't want to communicate with each other? ...... etc.

If I wonder why some people like it.

Personally, I don't like if someone pushes me and pulls me somewhere I don't want to go.

Well ... we have 5 o'clock in the afternoon (in Europe).

32 people are playing on the server.

Again, only 3 families remained, and again of course gasoline and water are running out, and everyone is starving.

It's so boring.

Do you want to play?

Saolin · 2019-11-05 19:33:29

It's a good point that we still don't have enough incentive to communicate. I thought tool slots would help that a lot more than it has so far, which is why I thought it was a smart idea. I thought the 8-16 would have almost no effect on many players since I/they would have 12+ every life, which is why I suggested cutting it down more. It was supposed to encourage teaching and communicating more, but so far I've just been conserving my tool slots to avoid running out, and if I've been communicating and teaching more it's only because I have less jobs that I'm working on and so nothing better to do. Maybe I'm still getting accustomed to the system, but at some point it's either beneficial or it's not. Personally for me, that in combination with the prolonged stages of scarcity that seem to be an increasing percentage of each arc has made the game less fun recently.

Tools maybe I can still get used to and it won't bother me as much or feel as limiting, but I'm really getting sick of the extended periods of scarcity where there's no incentive to do anything anymore and everyone seems to stop working and it just feels like everyone is basically milling around waiting for the arc to end, bickering about petty things and killing each other.

Last edited by Saolin (2019-11-05 19:37:29)

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-05 19:58:32

When I want to use a chisel for example, there is no way I would walk around the town and ask someone to use it for me. This is definitely a bad update since it had to encourage people to communicate and work together and it doesn't do this. It's opposite, people instead of working together work even less. Jason would probably like it that people work less, but it has negative psychological input for people that want to play the game properly and see people aren't working at all. Game becomes much less attractive mostly for new people.

Dodge · 2019-11-05 20:45:44

Coconut Fruit wrote:

When I want to use a chisel for example, there is no way I would walk around the town and ask someone to use it for me.

If the game was different you would go to the builder shop and buy the cut stones.

So how do we go from a bunch of idiots running around to an organized society with shops, police, restaurants etc?

Toxolotl · 2019-11-05 21:47:54

Dodge wrote:

Coconut Fruit wrote:
When I want to use a chisel for example, there is no way I would walk around the town and ask someone to use it for me.
If the game was different you would go to the builder shop and buy the cut stones.
So how do we go from a bunch of idiots running around to an organized society with shops, police, restaurants etc?

Simple answer: The player base has to want to do those things.

Personally i prefer this communist anarchy we have going. Its far more efficient and it is actually quite organized.

It should be the player base's choice to play how they want to. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to make capitalism more desirable without forcing people into a play style. In my experience most people who have attempted capitalism in game do not cultivate external resources but instead steal from their town and hoard items. I have yet to encounter a non toxic form of capitalism in game. Measures should be taken to encourage more diversity in play styles without disabling people from choice. The human element of this game is what makes it interesting. Restricting freedom and forcing players into a format is only going to make things more predictable and boring. Another main issue is for capitalism to thrive there really needs to be a common currency. Since the closest thing we can get to that is the barter system the backbone of any attempt at capitalism is going to be weak. I think a cool common currency could be tool slots. If you could trade tool slots that could create a really interesting dynamic. Personally i would rather see the tool system scrapped because i think it restricts too much freedom but it could be an interesting alternative.

This forum post was made to discuss the tool system and player's opinions and experiences with it. If you want to discuss something not pertaining to tools slots and your experiences with them i suggest you make a new post on whatever subject you wish to discuss. Thanks.

Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-11-05 21:49:27)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-05 23:00:27

Coconut Fruit wrote:

When I want to use a chisel for example, there is no way I would walk around the town and ask someone to use it for me. This is definitely a bad update since it had to encourage people to communicate and work together and it doesn't do this. It's opposite, people instead of working together work even less. Jason would probably like it that people work less, but it has negative psychological input for people that want to play the game properly and see people aren't working at all. Game becomes much less attractive mostly for new people.

I don't know about anyone else, but I feel very depressed when I get a new player now. I think about how to explain this game to them and teach them how to play well ... and then I just don't even want to get started. Where do you even begin?

I mostly just want to apologize to them for joining too late.

miskas · 2019-11-05 23:41:10

I like the idea, but needs rebalancing, group up some tools and changes to work properly. For example in a game with luck of signs, houses, stores and job clothes.

I would love it if we could attach our Profession's main tool to our backpacks to show our Expertise and we can ask people if we need something from them.

Last edited by miskas (2019-11-05 23:44:25)

One Hour One Life Forums

#76 2019-11-05 14:47:22

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#77 2019-11-05 16:18:57

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#78 2019-11-05 19:33:29

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#79 2019-11-05 19:58:32

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#80 2019-11-05 20:45:44

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#81 2019-11-05 21:47:54

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#82 2019-11-05 23:00:27

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#83 2019-11-05 23:41:10

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

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