Anyone else hate this new tool update?

CatX · 2019-11-02 16:54:12

TheSamWish wrote:

Wow I was wondering who started that town. I built a lot there. Made the engine for the well, made a yum shrine, painted a pretty decent sized building, and fenced in a penguin near the tarr monument since he was out of his biome. You should check it out.
I gave up playing on that server though since I can never finish anything that I start now.
I feel like low pop servers should automatically have more tool slots since I have no one to ask for help. If gene score is excluded somehow from low pop servers, why is this co-op updated forced on all servers?

I don't know.

I think I saw the penguin, good job

There is (or was) a lot of "out of biome" critters around, I remember I saw several further north.

Last edited by CatX (2019-11-02 16:54:58)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-02 17:21:19

TheSamWish wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Jason has had a problem remembering those people, as evidenced by the wipes that completely destroyed low populations server towns. What town was yours in server12?
I sort of took over the 'tutorial town' in the center of the map. I built a bell tower there yesterday. (3, -37) It hasn't been wiped since the rift was implemented from what I understand. It's just a little frustrating having co-op shoved down my throat when I'm literally the only person alive...

If it was the same town that I'm thinking of, it was started by Betsst. Though, I'd have to see it to know.

CatX · 2019-11-02 17:23:43

Spoonwood wrote:

If it was the same town that I'm thinking of, it was started by Betsst. Though, I'd have to see it to know.

Spoonwood, I guess you're thinking of a town from before server 12 got reset.

Mirelli · 2019-11-02 23:09:55

I hate it too, for the same reasons you wrote about. I think it's the reason why every single life I tried to live yesterday was so terrible. It seemed like no one at all was working on anything so I just didn't play because I knew it would be super frustrating. Who wants to play a game that only frustrates you? All these limitations are doing is killing the game imo. I put in thousands of hours into this game towards the start but recently I haven't been able to bring myself to play one life a day, if even. Some people are saying it just needs to be tweaked or reworked, but I don't know how reworking it could make it any better. Personally, I'd prefer if Jason got rid of the whole idea. I still very much loathe the rift but I'm still holding onto my tiny shred of hope that it will also be yeeted eventually..

Toxolotl · 2019-11-02 23:57:59

I agree Mirelli. One of the beauties of this game was the only limit was our understanding. Putting chains on something like that seem fruitless to me. I understand its in an attempt to create more cooperation but as a result is creates blunt operant conditioning and restricts the ability of players to achieve their goals. There are healthier methods of encouraging cooperation without cutting off a players leg so they are forced to lean on another.

ProbablyDead · 2019-11-04 04:51:09

I'm kinda new at this game (LONG-time lurker, finally bought it) and I don't really get the need for it. I was having fun trying to learn and help as much as I can, but now I have to basically spend one life devoted to -just- one thing, and can't even practice or begin something new.
My usual playstyle has kinda been to be a jack-of-all-trades and run around helping out with whatever we need at the time, instead of sitting in one tiny area asking if someone knows how to hit a stick with an axe.
Also, I thought it was supposed to be tied in with genetic fitness? It it strictly number-based and not placement based? I've hovered between 7th and 10th place all day and still get a grand total of 8 tool slots. Except for one life, where it gave me 11, before going right back to 8 the next one despite my score actually going up slightly.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-04 05:26:23

I don't like it too. I didn't want to comment at begin because I wanted to give it a try. But I really liked it better without this tools update. Once something is implemented it won't get removed so we have to deal with it.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-11-04 05:42:56

I was playing earlier as an Eve and I needed a knife blade for an oil pump and no one could understand me. I tried breaking a blade but the moment I put the knife down someone grabbed it and ran with it. So I HAD TO fill the rest of my tool slots with forging related stuff because I couldn't ask for help. Anyways make the blade, and SURPRISE SURPRISE. A FILE IS A TOOL. I had to sit there in agony for at least 10 mins just trying over and over to file the blade. I was begging in discord, in game for help and it took so fucking long. Finally some absolute champion of a child noticed and filed it for me.

THEN I COULDN'T MAKE A FIRE AT THE ACTUAL OIL PUMP.

Thanks this is a REALLY fun update. I love all my time and hard work being sandbagged by cancerous mechanics.

Also next life I couldn't put the oil I made into the engine I made so that was blue balling as fuck.

CatX · 2019-11-04 07:32:57

Would it be possible to let players get more tool slots as they age? One extra slot after 15 minutes perhaps?

Dodge · 2019-11-04 08:15:25

It's still in a transition phase and needs some game balancing in order to work.

Currently you still have the same dynamic of people running around in random directions and still not needing or having the incentive to communicate.

So at this time instead of cooperation between players it's basically the same solo game as before except everyone is limited.

The issue imo is how easy it is to stay alive outside on your own without a shelter (a place to regroup), so everyone is scattered around which makes organization and communication a nightmare, also most importantly it's still not needed.

Since you can survive outside easily on your own there is no collective struggle against the elements (cold,hunger,limitations etc), it's still an individual challenge instead.

You dont act as a group, you act as an individual in the presence of others. Because the incentive to be really part of that group is not there, not needed for survival.

TLDR: If you dont need to be in a group to survive then you are not going to act as a group.

coriander · 2019-11-04 11:33:54

I appreciate what the update is trying to do, but I think six slots is way too limiting. In an ideal world, people would have specialized professions and communication would flourish, but as it is I am just wandering around town for 10 minutes looking for somebody with n skill so that I can get one task done.

Psykout · 2019-11-04 15:40:34

That extra delay in every task just feels like a way to stall out the end of the tech tree. As far as design goes, its genious, end content is hard to reach and you have more time per arc before everything stalls out. As far as player enjoyment, it literally took a giant shit on the reward to getting past the learning curve. When you finally plow through enough time, and ontech pages, and learn all the tasks in the game, you still end up with jack shit, because everyone you play with needs to be on the same level as you and working harmonesly together to get anywhere. As a player, you do NOT get anything from attempting to master the game. Your hours spent learning how to smith well, know how to make a newcomen well, can bake a shit ton of pies, make an engine... All of that is barred off, and you will have to rely on the berry munchers learning how to stop typing and put in some elbow grease. The grand plan is for everyone to contribute to building sandcastles before the arc resets and it all begins again. The time you have spent to understand the ins and outs, means very little now. The architect behind the code has deemed, that you have very little power now. Have fun chasing wells.

This is extremely negative, and I apologize. Its hard to type this just as much is at its hard to see people willing to take the effort to learn all the steps in every task have that taken from them. We all are now trapped in "emergent storytelling" with most of our words crossed out, the blanks filled in. Our hands are forced, and either we follow the path laid for us, or we let go. Make pies till it dies.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-04 16:57:18

Dodge wrote:

TLDR: If you dont need to be in a group to survive then you are not going to act as a group.

Plenty of people in the game acted as a group in the game before tools existed. People did exist who didn't need to be in a group to survive, but did act as a group before.

Whatever · 2019-11-04 16:59:52

Spoonwood wrote:

Dodge wrote:
TLDR: If you dont need to be in a group to survive then you are not going to act as a group.
Plenty of people in the game acted as a group in the game before tools existed. People did exist who didn't need to be in a group to survive, but did act as a group before.

Someone starts the fire in the oven and people come together to bake pie, or someone starts fire in the forge and people try to work together to make the most out of the coals.
But now you might not want to waste your tool slots, only need 1 smith, only need 1 baker.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-04 17:11:19

Whatever wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge wrote:
TLDR: If you dont need to be in a group to survive then you are not going to act as a group.
Plenty of people in the game acted as a group in the game before tools existed. People did exist who didn't need to be in a group to survive, but did act as a group before.
Someone starts the fire in the oven and people come together to bake pie, or someone starts fire in the forge and people try to work together to make the most out of the coals.
But now you might not want to waste your tool slots, only need 1 smith, only need 1 baker.

Yeah ... I loved the sense of community when I fired up the oven to bake a huge batch of pies and suddenly four or five people came together to help me bake them off before the oven cooled. Or when I was forging iron and someone helped move the bars without being asked. People would see what needed to be done and decide to help, spontaneously. Not because they were forced by artificial restraints or because I went around the village begging for their assistance. They helped because we were all working toward a common goal and we wanted to get there together.

It was a nice feeling.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-04 17:15:35

Whatever wrote:

Someone starts the fire in the oven and people come together to bake pie, or someone starts fire in the forge and people try to work together to make the most out of the coals.
But now you might not want to waste your tool slots, only need 1 smith, only need 1 baker.

I sure as heck remember pie baking. Multiple people jumping in. And people helping at the forge by banging out iron.

What you say about tool slots might suggest that less cooperation exists now or that cooperation in certain cases now no longer exists or is less likely to happen.

PeebleCreek · 2019-11-04 17:40:46

Dodge wrote:

Yeah ... I loved the sense of community when I fired up the oven to bake a huge batch of pies and suddenly four or five people came together to help me bake them off before the oven cooled. Or when I was forging iron and someone helped move the bars without being asked. People would see what needed to be done and decide to help, spontaneously. Not because they were forced by artificial restraints or because I went around the village begging for their assistance. They helped because we were all working toward a common goal and we wanted to get there together.
It was a nice feeling.

Yeah, I've only had this game a couple months, but I DEFINITELY feel like there's been a pretty steep decline in cooperation since the tools update.

I get that it's a work in progress, but I hope the lack-of-cooperation solution can be worked out another way because I honestly hate the limited tools. A lot.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-04 18:07:09

Whatever wrote:

Someone starts the fire in the oven and people come together to bake pie, or someone starts fire in the forge and people try to work together to make the most out of the coals.
But now you might not want to waste your tool slots, only need 1 smith, only need 1 baker.

So true. It shows that working together on the same task is very enjoyable thing to do. Even now some people are willing to waste their skill slots just to enjoy cooperating with others on the same task even tho this update is trying to take us this away. And it succeeds in many cases too - many people won't want to waste their skill slots even tho they would want to have the fun.
The update supposed to connect us but it does the opposite

Dodge · 2019-11-04 18:41:11

I'm not talking about some odd here and there examples of "cooperation" like baking pies together because it's cute and a mini game/roleplay activity to do together, i'm talking about actually needing to communicate with other members of the group in order to survive.

How do we organize in order to make this civilisation work and not die out?

Which is currently not needed and never was.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-04 18:52:55

Cooperation on small things like bakings pies works fine since it's very simple and doesn't require communication. It fails on other things.
I'm saying that cooperation is fun and it's definately not a "mini game/roleplay" activity.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-04 19:03:30

In-game communication is not encouraged or facilitated by the game and still isn't. In fact, game mechanics work AGAINST players communicating and coordinating their actions. The strict text character limit makes it nearly impossible to speak for the first five to ten minutes of your life and cripplingly difficult to explain complex ideas, even when you are middle-aged or higher. The short amount of time you have in each life means spending five minutes explaining something is almost never worth the wasted time for the speaker OR the listener. Who wants to stand around while someone says "Hi ... I need ... your help ... to make .... a new .... shovel ... so I can ... bury my ... grandmother." In the time it took for you to finish one sentence, I've had two babies, planted six rows of wheat and then died of old age. We are all busy people. Who has time to stand still and wait for someone else to tell them what needs to be done?

In a game a fast-paced as OHOL, in-game voice chat would be significantly better than limited character text. This is why GOOD twins using Discord are so productive. Cooperation and coordination has always been very important in OHOL. It's just so hard to do in-game as to be not worth doing. The tools update tries to force cooperation without actually giving us the TOOLS we need to coordinate quickly and effectively. But if you work with a friend and coordinate your activity outside of the limited game interface, you can get an insane amount of work accomplished in a small amount of time. This is actually why veteran players are so powerful. They can work together toward a common goal without a lot of time-consuming chit-chat. They understand the game and what is required well enough to work independently without relying on someone else directing their behavior. You see someone is working on oil, so you go gather branches so they have plenty of kindling for the forge. You see that we are running low on pies and there is no wheat nearby, so you go plant some more wheat so the baker can keep baking. This kind of low-key cooperation has always been present in the game. It just isn't supported by the game very well. And it really should be.

The tools update doesn't do a very good job of encouraging real cooperation. It just hobbles players and limits their choices, so they will eventually hit a wall and get frustrated. You can still do everything you want to do, but it just takes more time and isn't as satisfying. When you run out of tool slots, you have to switch to prepping for your next life, instead of finishing what you want to accomplish in a single lifetime.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-11-04 19:05:59

"Why can't you guys all just get along and work together to do stuff"

Bruh how am I going to ask for help when I can't talk to anyone?

Maybe I should write a note....

WAIT A MINUTE.

Dodge · 2019-11-04 20:54:51

DestinyCall wrote:

In a game a fast-paced as OHOL

Yes exactly, the current pace of the game is way too fast to have a cooperation/communication type gameplay, currently it's about running around and crafting as fast as possible and not organization/interaction.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-05 06:03:37

Dodge wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
In a game a fast-paced as OHOL
Yes exactly, the current pace of the game is way too fast to have a cooperation/communication type gameplay, currently it's about running around and crafting as fast as possible and not organization/interaction.

And the pacing of the game is not really improved by restricting tool usage. It is still just as important to work quickly and use your limited time efficiently. But now you must do it while also fighting against artificial tool limits. Our means of communication are still quite limited and slow. And our hunger continues to drain away at the same rate. Water is being depleted just as fast as before the change so we don't have a lot of time to waste searching for someone who already knows how to use a dry well.

This update might force people to stop for a few seconds to desperately beg for assistance while they try to juggle too many jobs, but it doesn't give us any more breathing room than we had before the tools limit. The "cooperation" feels artificial and uncomfortable, rather than the natural and spontaneous cooperation of a communal bakery or smithy project. Two people working together to build a floor or clean up a sheep pen feels really good - like you are working together to lighten the load. Hunting around town to find someone with the "shears" skill so you can get a bundle of thread and then searching again to find someone who has the "needle and thread" skill so you can finally finish the dress you've been working so hard to make is much less enjoyable experience.

It doesn't feel like you are working together for a common goal. It feels like you are being forced into each other's space by a heavy-handed game mechanic. And linking tool slots with genetic score is just an extra slap to the face, especially when your score drops after you are abandoned as a baby by a mother riding on horseback.

Dodge · 2019-11-05 07:24:16

DestinyCall wrote:

And the pacing of the game is not really improved by restricting tool usage. It is still just as important to work quickly and use your limited time efficiently. But now you must do it while also fighting against artificial tool limits.

OR change the pace of the game then...

Also "artificial" tool limits, can you really learn to be smith, sheppard, tailor, baker, engineer, farmer, builder etc in a single life IRL?

What's really artificial is being able to learn an infinite number of things in a single life, having one person that has 20 jobs is the real artificial thing.

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-11-02 16:54:12

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#27 2019-11-02 17:21:19

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#28 2019-11-02 17:23:43

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#29 2019-11-02 23:09:55

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#30 2019-11-02 23:57:59

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#31 2019-11-04 04:51:09

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#32 2019-11-04 05:26:23

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#33 2019-11-04 05:42:56

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#34 2019-11-04 07:32:57

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#35 2019-11-04 08:15:25

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#36 2019-11-04 11:33:54

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#37 2019-11-04 15:40:34

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#38 2019-11-04 16:57:18

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#39 2019-11-04 16:59:52

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#40 2019-11-04 17:11:19

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#41 2019-11-04 17:15:35

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#42 2019-11-04 17:40:46

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#43 2019-11-04 18:07:09

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#44 2019-11-04 18:41:11

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#45 2019-11-04 18:52:55

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#46 2019-11-04 19:03:30

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#47 2019-11-04 19:05:59

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#48 2019-11-04 20:54:51

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#49 2019-11-05 06:03:37

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

#50 2019-11-05 07:24:16

Re: Anyone else hate this new tool update?

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