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#1 2019-10-12 21:00:27

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 3,624

Update: Oil and Water

qzkm5t0.png

The point of the arcs is to see what happens over the long haul to villages as fundamental resources run out in a finite area.  However, those fundamental resources have been so plentiful in the past that villages died out for other reasons before the experiment got to run to completion.  Oil was one of these primary resources, but taking a quick survey of a sample map, I found 42 tarry spots.  That's a lot of oil in a lot of places.

It's much more interesting if only some of the villages manage to find and monopolized oil.  So in this update, there are now a fixed number of tarry spots---five of them---scattered randomly on the map.  And to make them easier to find, they only occur in the snowy biome.

Oil is primarily needed for pumping water long term, but what about the intermediary water pumps leading up to the diesel pump?  I took another look at those and made them both more reliable and long lasting, which will give a village a bit more breathing room before they need to rush oil exploration.

The hint system has been refined even more since last week.  Now, when you type a filter like /HATCHET, you see a list of step-by-step instructions for making the target object, with blue arrows pointing to the ingredients for each step as you go, and the current step switching automatically whenever you pick up a new ingredient.  For simpler crafting tasks, this system almost works like magic to lead you step by step through the process with blue hint arrows guiding your way.

The posse system has also been adjusted to allow you to join a posse verbally (I JOIN YOU), even if you are unable to right-click on a fast-moving griefer.  You need to be holding something to join a posse, but it doesn't necessarily need to be a deadly weapon.  Your joining adds moral support to the posse and speeds it up.  Setting down whatever you're holding takes you out of the posse, just like before.

You can fly over the rift barrier with a plane again, but you can't have babies outside the rift.  The past few arcs were ended by escapees sucking babies away from the remaining arc families.

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#2 2019-10-12 21:19:14

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 1,016

Re: Update: Oil and Water

I'll throw in some predictions here

Round stones and springs will become much more valuable now, maybe civs will really start migrating on a more regular base.


Iron wil definitely start running out again which I think is a win/win

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-10-12 21:27:00)

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#3 2019-10-12 21:35:11

antking:]#
Member
Registered: 2018-12-29
Posts: 345

Re: Update: Oil and Water

well shoot I guessed cars will never become the meta... Now that you can add rubber to horse cart doubling its carrying space  and because of how little oil their is on the map their is absolutely no reason why you should make a car, except  to make a plane which is also useless.


But really I think you forgot to make the rubber tires on Horse carts to fall apart. I always liked that you could sacrifice speed for cargo. (Rubber hand cart VS Horse cart).
Now you can just make a rubber Horse cart making the speed for cargo logic unrealistic.

I think that this idea will make sense to you:

Rubber Horse cart tires disappear faster then Ruder hand cart tires, being that the Rubber Horse cart tires are put on a lot more force than the hand cart.

I hope you can see the logic in this, and it just doesn't make sense that Rubber hand cart tires disappear while Rubber Horse Cart tires don't.

https://onetech.info/2172-Hand-Cart-with-Tires

https://onetech.info/3159-Hitched-Horse-Drawn-Tire-Cart


"hear how the wind begins to whisper, but now it screams at me" said ashe

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#4 2019-10-12 21:38:14

antking:]#
Member
Registered: 2018-12-29
Posts: 345

Re: Update: Oil and Water

antking:]# wrote:

well shoot I guessed cars will never become the meta... Now that you can add rubber to horse cart doubling its carrying space  and because of how little oil their is on the map their is absolutely no reason why you should make a car, except  to make a plane which is also useless.


But really I think you forgot to make the rubber tires on Horse carts to fall apart. I always liked that you could sacrifice speed for cargo. (Rubber hand cart VS Horse cart).
Now you can just make a rubber Horse cart making the speed for cargo logic unrealistic.

I think that this idea will make sense to you:

Rubber Horse cart tires disappear faster then Ruder hand cart tires, being that the Rubber Horse cart tires are put on a lot more force than the hand cart.

I hope you can see the logic in this, and it just doesn't make sense that Rubber hand cart tires disappear while Rubber Horse Cart tires don't.

https://onetech.info/2172-Hand-Cart-with-Tires

https://onetech.info/3159-Hitched-Horse-Drawn-Tire-Cart

Love the posse change though, this will allow for mass migrations, Invasions, and All the RP possibilities (Lovers running away roses in hand)

oops clicked quote not edit my bad sad

Last edited by antking:]# (2019-10-12 21:39:47)


"hear how the wind begins to whisper, but now it screams at me" said ashe

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#5 2019-10-12 21:41:05

eajorstad
Member
From: Wisconsin, USA
Registered: 2019-09-29
Posts: 14

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Can shear skeep skin to make fleece.
October 11, 2019

Added Transitions
Shears
+
Sheep Skin
-14%
Shears
Fleece

OMG FINALLY. I've been so sick of all the useless sheep skin around cities. So much clutter..

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#6 2019-10-12 22:32:08

StrongForce
Member
Registered: 2018-03-09
Posts: 152

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Is there still oily spots outside the rift?
If yes we can import it right?


Baby dance!!

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#7 2019-10-12 23:10:56

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 3,624

Re: Update: Oil and Water

No tarry spots outside for now.

Yeah, I hear you on the horse cart issue.  That will be addressed in a future update.

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#8 2019-10-12 23:11:56

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 3,624

Re: Update: Oil and Water

One idea:  if motor isn't portable in a cart, but it can be removed from a car, then a car is useful as a mobile motor transport (to move the engine from place to place).

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#9 2019-10-12 23:15:38

voy178
Member
Registered: 2018-08-18
Posts: 162

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Can you make the shovel less wasteful when burying people? It's ridiculous to leave all those corpses and bone piles around on the ground.

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#10 2019-10-13 00:03:15

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 1,016

Re: Update: Oil and Water

jasonrohrer wrote:

One idea:  if motor isn't portable in a cart, but it can be removed from a car, then a car is useful as a mobile motor transport (to move the engine from place to place).


Honestly, cars should be able to carry extra engines, not just theit own. That and a buff to their carrying capacity and we might use them.


Horses should definitely have at least one big disadvantage in relation to cars. They could also die after some years of course.

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#11 2019-10-13 01:20:23

eajorstad
Member
From: Wisconsin, USA
Registered: 2019-09-29
Posts: 14

Re: Update: Oil and Water

voy178 wrote:

Can you make the shovel less wasteful when burying people? It's ridiculous to leave all those corpses and bone piles around on the ground.

THIS. A lot of people (myself included) really enjoy the role playing aspect of being able to bury your loved ones after they pass away... decorating their graves, giving custom headstones, making beautiful cemeteries... but right now if anyone sees you burying people they will start yelling at you or call you a griefer b/c you're wasting iron resources.

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#12 2019-10-13 01:29:59

jinbaili83
Member
Registered: 2018-06-15
Posts: 94

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Why we stoped using horses for transport.
From wiki:

Problems with horsecars included the fact that any given animal could only work so many hours on a given day,
had to be housed, groomed, fed and cared for day in and day out, and produced prodigious amounts of manure,
which the streetcar company was charged with storing and then disposing. Since a typical horse pulled a streetcar for about a dozen
miles (19 km) a day and worked for four or five hours, many systems needed ten or more horses in stable for each horsecar.

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#13 2019-10-13 01:33:59

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 258

Re: Update: Oil and Water

All in all shovel is not that wasteful imo, my pain is always the flat stones because they are limited and have too many uses.

Machine to cut Big stones into a pile of flat stones PLEASE!!

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#14 2019-10-13 02:39:20

RodneyC86
Member
Registered: 2019-05-11
Posts: 467

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Any plans to make planes useful?
Can we have multiple rifts and the way to travel to them is only via plane? Then again might last forever , and for wars to happen between two rifts planes become a must

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#15 2019-10-13 09:18:40

Don Holm
Member
Registered: 2019-05-29
Posts: 41

Re: Update: Oil and Water

jasonrohrer wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/qzkm5t0.png

The point of the arcs is to see what happens over the long haul to villages as fundamental resources run out in a finite area. .

Let me give you the simplest answer to this question, WE F**KING DIE .
Thank you smile

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#16 2019-10-13 09:50:58

Tipy
Member
Registered: 2019-01-09
Posts: 30

Re: Update: Oil and Water

What happened to the update gifs they were so cool sad


Build bell towers not apocalypse towers

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#17 2019-10-13 18:41:05

CatX
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 434

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Don Holm wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/qzkm5t0.png

The point of the arcs is to see what happens over the long haul to villages as fundamental resources run out in a finite area. .

Let me give you the simplest answer to this question, WE F**KING DIE .
Thank you smile

Yeah... it might not be the most interesting of all experiments...

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#18 2019-10-14 00:16:52

fug
Member
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 176

Re: Update: Oil and Water

jasonrohrer wrote:

One idea:  if motor isn't portable in a cart, but it can be removed from a car, then a car is useful as a mobile motor transport (to move the engine from place to place).

The thing about this idea is that a horse cart with wheels carries the engine + 7 potential other times vs a car which carries the engine albeit a bit faster but only holds the engine + three other items. Add in the fuel needed to just drive the car around and we've got a two slot storage option vs potentially a 7 slot.

The speed isn't exactly a valuable trait for the car in the first place and considering how the map has changed stepping on a snake isn't very likely for someone on a horse anymore.

A car or plane is just too expensive in resources and ease of it being lost to be viable for anything other than an expensive toy. Horse carts with wheels cost half as many wheels, holds double a car holds, and is generally the better item at a much much lower cost point. You're very unlikely to run out of horses on the map vs always eventually running out of kerosene.


Worlds oldest SID baby.

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#19 2019-10-14 02:29:34

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 3,624

Re: Update: Oil and Water

You're not dead yet, right?  You've survived more than 24 hours.

Regarding GIFs, they were cool, but a ton of work (usually at least an hour of extra work per week).  In the latest Steam update, Steam started requiring a large image for every news post, and GIF was not supported.  I needed to make still images for Steam.... and I definitely couldn't afford to make 2 images every week.

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#20 2019-10-14 13:12:35

Troporos
Member
Registered: 2018-10-05
Posts: 2

Re: Update: Oil and Water

I liked when you were creating content update. Now I haven't seen any for a month. Could you please add some content updates? There are so many good concepts and you are just focusing on  destructing gameplay of players.

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#21 2019-10-15 07:30:25

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,807

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Booklat1 wrote:

Horses should definitely have at least one big disadvantage in relation to cars. They could also die after some years of course.

Or go the other direction. 

If horses live forever and don't need to be fed or cared for in any particular way ... why not let the car run forever on one tank of gas?

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#22 2019-10-15 07:37:31

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 1,807

Re: Update: Oil and Water

CatX wrote:
Don Holm wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/qzkm5t0.png

The point of the arcs is to see what happens over the long haul to villages as fundamental resources run out in a finite area. .

Let me give you the simplest answer to this question, WE F**KING DIE .
Thank you smile

Yeah... it might not be the most interesting of all experiments...

But maybe we .. umm .. won't die?   

Maybe we will just suffer in a hellish limbo, eating wild berries and desperately searching the map for traces of iron so we can do anything interesting .. all of our towns frozen in a half-functional state because we have no shovels to move sheep poop to make compost and we have no shears to gather thread to make clothing and we have no hoes to till the soil to make food.   

But we do have three cars, a radio, and a bonsai tree.

...

Honestly, I think that would be so much worse.

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#23 2019-10-15 14:20:26

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 1,016

Re: Update: Oil and Water

DestinyCall wrote:
Booklat1 wrote:

Horses should definitely have at least one big disadvantage in relation to cars. They could also die after some years of course.

Or go the other direction. 

If horses live forever and don't need to be fed or cared for in any particular way ... why not let the car run forever on one tank of gas?



Because every time we make the game easier we get further from resource scarcity/realistic economy/barter which Jason clearly wants. I know you want a fun game about people taking care of each other communaly and it's cute but ohol hasn't really been aiming for that since forever. And frankly, I'd much rather have constant deaths by famine than Jason deciding the game is too boring and adding swords/mass genocide.


Idk exactly how hard the game needs to be, it doesn't even need to be hard all the time, but the feeling of "oh shit we might all die" should be an integral part of some playthroughs.

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-10-15 14:21:01)

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#24 2019-10-15 19:57:02

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,329

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Booklat1 wrote:

Because every time we make the game easier we get further from resource scarcity/realistic economy/barter which Jason clearly wants.

So what?  Jason doesn't know what he's doing and what he's been doing.  Player population has consistently decline without a major uptick in player count since the temperature overhaul.  Jason made a post where instead of blaming his choices, he chalked it up to the age of the game.  Jason's opinions clearly aren't consistent with what the playerbase wants nor what potential players probably want.

Booklat1 wrote:

I know you want a fun game about people taking care of each other communaly and it's cute but ohol hasn't really been aiming for that since forever. And frankly, I'd much rather have constant deaths by famine than Jason deciding the game is too boring and adding swords/mass genocide.

He tried swords.  It didn't produce any significant upticks.  Hopefully, he'll learn from his mistakes and not try to create unnecessary drama in the future. 

One tank of gas as sufficient for a car sounds as about as realistic as a horse that never has to eat.  So, may as well make a car run on one tank of gas forever ... at least that would make cars more useful than horses.

Booklat1 wrote:

Idk exactly how hard the game needs to be, it doesn't even need to be hard all the time, but the feeling of "oh shit we might all die" should be an integral part of some playthroughs.

No, it shouldn't.  Well, it's fine for new players, but not experienced ones.  I mean a game where players will just inevitably die, would just result in declining numbers.  Seriously, 'you're going to die no matter what you do' is not how survival games have worked.  And such an idea won't be popular.

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#25 2019-10-16 01:45:04

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 1,016

Re: Update: Oil and Water

Im tired of discussing design or anything really with you spoonwood


Not only because you're 99.8% of the time wrong and made a meme at this point but because of how unrelated to the issues presented your responses are


Jason has said time and time again he doesn't care if he kills the game trying to make it closer to his vision which includes the possibility of everyone dying to famines/civs fucking up majourly and getting to live in a dying world


This is the hardness that this game needs, its why heat update was important and why the game kept going after it despite you insisting at the time it was absolutely broken. Yiu were wrong back then and you're wrong now.



I'll hate Jason's fuck ups as much as anyone but you just take it to the next level, why are you still even here?

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