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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2019-05-18 18:22:49

FeignedSanity
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Posts: 456

Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

For me, these have easily been one of (if not the) most annoying thing in the game. I'm honestly kind of surprised I haven't seen anyone mention them. Maybe people have just gotten used to it; but it really bothered me a year ago, and it still really bothers me lol.

Your mom hands you a backpack with a knife in it. That's cool beans, really neat-o. Your in your 30's, just doing work as usual, and your backpack randomly explodes and half of your supplies (also quite possibly your knife) go flying out. Now you have to scramble to figure out what fell, what's left, and what you want to keep while you make a new pack. You have to do all this before some yahoo comes by and takes whatever fell out. There's no warning this was going to happen, there was no counter play. It was just, "oh, you inherited a backpack? Well fuck you, you should've made your own. Then this wouldn't have happened". Maybe a lot of the reason this is so tolerated, is because it takes five hours for this to be a problem. But why does it need to be a problem at all? It's just annoying and leads to a hesitant mindset of inheriting things.

Now I'm not saying to have no decay state, buy why does the decayed state have to have less inventory slots? To make it less valuable than a non decayed one? Then make it only last 2-5 minutes instead of 30. This gives you plenty of time to replace it without letting you just carry on with broken equipment. This also applies to handcarts (except for the tire one, I think this is fine because the tires are a bonus and losing them isn't a punishment. It's just the timed bonus running out). The decayed state should just serve as a notice that "hey, this thing is going to break soon and all of your stuff is about to be on the ground if you don't make a new one"

Now baskets are a lot the same in this regard, except for one crucial aspect. They are also an invaluable storage tool (like chests). I really feel like these should be more of a "storage tool that can be used to move stuff if you need to". With baskets, you can now hold twelve small items in a box/chest. This is fan-freaking-tastic. Really top notch stuff....but why do they have to randomly explode when they're just sitting in a chest (which, mind you, has no decay state), or on the floor. These really should act more like a tool, if they're being used as a tool; and more like storage, if they are being used as storage.

I feel like these should go by the same logic as any other tool, it breaks as you use it. If you're putting stuff in or taking stuff out, you have a chance to "use" one of it's use states. That way if you put some paper in a couple baskets, and put them in a chest (something Jason suggested when books where suggested), you wont have to worry about them randomly exploding and sending all the papers flying. With this change, they would act like storage when they're being used as storage, and act like tools when they're being used as tools. Let's say we give it an average of 100 or 200 uses. I feel like that number is fair.

Now the floppy basket (mind you, it should still maintain three slots following in line with the above) can be on a time limit. That way if you needed it to move something, you wouldn't be SOL. You would have like 2 minutes to finish up with what you were doing and make a replacement before it disappeared. Now you have a chance to be like, "okay, let me put these rocks on the place I'm building a cistern, then I'll make a new basket". Again, I feel like this would be fair.

I know some people are going to say something like "baskets are fine without uses, they last 10 hours". But that's only because Jason has cranked the number so ridiculously high that it became a non factor. But that doesn't solve the problem, it's just moving the goal post. It will happen, and it will be annoying when it does. You had no choice, no decision, nothing you did contributed to the library now being full of disorganized paper. You just ran out of time. Have fun playing 52 card pick up.



TLDR:
-Having your stuff scattered everywhere is a terrible experience and it has no place in the game, especially when there's no counter play. Ideas for changes and reasons behind them.

-Tattered backpack, floppy basket, and old cart should hold as much as their non decayed counter parts. If nothing else, there should at least be some kind of warning. Baskets should break on use (every time something is removed) and the floppy basket should remain timed (like around a minute or two).

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-21 21:15:28)


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#2 2019-05-18 19:03:43

DestinyCall
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

I like this idea.   It has always bothered me that you can't provide decent long term organization with baskets, because of the decay/item explosion problem.   And I've had that exact experience with knives flying everywhere when an old pack decayed unexpectedly.

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#3 2019-05-18 20:35:35

Stormyzabeast
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Registered: 2018-09-26
Posts: 81

Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

+1


I am Eve Toadvine. I name my kids Alex, Jason, Jake, Holly and Disney characters. Forager and road builder extraordinaire!

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#4 2019-05-19 15:27:34

FeignedSanity
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

DestinyCall wrote:

I like this idea.   It has always bothered me that you can't provide decent long term organization with baskets, because of the decay/item explosion problem.   And I've had that exact experience with knives flying everywhere when an old pack decayed unexpectedly.

I'm glad you like it. Really, it's just a really bad time with no real counter play (aside from making everything yourself). All this talk of ownership, it'd be like if some of your walls randomly exploded with no warning and your stuff flew out the big whole it made.

Honestly, what Jason could do, is to draw a new tattered backpack that holds 4 items. He could keep the old tattered backpack, but make a new smaller backpack (maybe made of 1 rabbit fur and 2 pieces of cut rabbit fur) that decays into the current tattered backpack. This "mini backpack" would be much easier to make and require far less rabbits, but it'd only have two item slots.

That way if you just wanted to hold a few crucial items, you wouldn't have to hunt down 5 rabbits. But you'd still want to have a large pack if you're doing a lot of gathering or transporting soil (maybe also be able to put babies in this one?).

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-19 15:33:14)


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#5 2019-05-20 18:27:07

FeignedSanity
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

Shameless bump smile


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#6 2019-05-20 19:24:53

futurebird
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

I think it makes sense that old backpacks hold fewer items, and they are dangerous to use. I do think maybe knife should have priority for staying in during a decay event. You'd put the knife in the most secure part of the bag... so it should fall out unless you have 4 knives.

I agree that organizing with baskets feels pointless because they decay. Organizing with boxes is better, but too expensive and not item dense enough. I have a basket that is 100s of years old in my family it's still being USED (not a museum piece!) as a sewing basket. So, the whole "basket got old!" thing never sat right with me.

The idea that stacking them, or putting dirt in a backpack "resets" them seems to be a myth.

But I would cheerfully invest time and energy to make storage that lasted for the ages.

We also need books to store precious papers (and let the papers not in books decay please.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

S T O R A G E U P D A T E


---
omnem cibum costis
tantum baca, non facies opus

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#7 2019-05-20 19:48:25

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 1,056

Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

The timer on baskets gets reset if they get stacked.  Though I'm not sure about the exact details of how it works, I've personally witnessed the effect of stacking old baskets on server 12 recently by stacking baskets something like 6 hours old, going to sleep for a few hours, waking up earlier than I expected, then playing OHOL and being sure that the baskets have existed for more than 10 hours and them still existing (then I unstacked and restacked them again and they lasted even longer).  It wasn't planned as an experiment, but I did see that effect happen and it was nice.

The soil in a backpack thing though is a myth.  I've used a backpack to move soil and then less than 45 minutes later it has decayed.

Sledges come as the better option for storage than boxes, unless the box gets placed on the corner or side of a pen, because of the ability to move through them.  I've used sledges for storage on server 12 and other people have, and it's something.  Yes, it's only 4 items (that CAN be enough... not saying it always is though).  But yes, the rope needed to make each sledge makes them expensive.  Especially without the amount of wild milkweed around that would exist were the 'short object about tall object' bug/feature removed as once happened.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-05-20 19:54:00)

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#8 2019-05-20 20:00:45

FeignedSanity
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

futurebird wrote:

I think it makes sense that old backpacks hold fewer items, and they are dangerous to use. I do think maybe knife should have priority for staying in during a decay event. You'd put the knife in the most secure part of the bag... so it should fall out unless you have 4 knives.

It also makes sense that you'd be able to stab someone and immediately run over to the next person and stab them. It makes sense that you'd be able to drop a bloody knife. It's not a matter of looking at real life logic. This isn't real life, it's a game. You have to look at it from a perspective of "does this make sense from a game play perspective?".

It doesn't make sense that you'd magically be able to find your way home, no matter how far you travel, just because you stuck a stick in the ground. But it makes sense from a game play perspective.

At the very least, there should be some sort of warning that it is about to break. The way it is now, you have no way of knowing when it'll break. If you pick up a tattered backpack, you know it'll break soon; but that isn't what this is about.


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#9 2019-05-20 20:02:41

FeignedSanity
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

Spoonwood wrote:

The timer on baskets gets reset if they get stacked.

I thought he already fixed this.


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#10 2019-05-20 20:49:29

Spoonwood
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

FeignedSanity wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

The timer on baskets gets reset if they get stacked.

I thought he already fixed this.

My observations were on Thursday evening and Friday morning as I recall.  Or Wednesday and Thursday.

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#11 2019-05-21 21:14:29

FeignedSanity
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

Spoonwood wrote:
FeignedSanity wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

The timer on baskets gets reset if they get stacked.

I thought he already fixed this.

My observations were on Thursday evening and Friday morning as I recall.  Or Wednesday and Thursday.

Hmmm, maybe I just misunderstood something. I really thought he fixed (or was going to fix this). I'll just have to take your word on this, unless I can be bothered to test it myself.


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#12 2019-05-25 18:31:21

FeignedSanity
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Re: Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs?

Shameless bump because Jason is on tongue


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