Cannot curse unnamed kids

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 01:48:28

Griefers can cycle through lives, until they get unnamed. And lineage ban does not kick in until they've lived for 30+ minutes, so in practice they can try to be born unnamed in a town as long as they want. I've already stopped feeding unnamed kids, but lots of people still do. Last griefer stabbing people left and right I have to deal with was unnamed. Named ones were only petty thieves stealing tools from the town - they still got 6+ curses.

Uncle Gus · 2018-07-09 02:09:05

This is as designed.

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 02:30:32

Uncle Gus wrote:

This is as designed.

Yep, but the bug is in design. There is a loophole than can be exploited repeatedly by the griefer. And it's enough that there is 1 newbie among 20 people in the town for it to work.

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 03:51:10

Anshin wrote:

All they have to do is hide behind a named baby and chances are they'll get picked up and fed first. If someone wants to be unnamed it's not that hard.

Uncle Gus · 2018-07-09 04:25:35

It's not a bug, that's all intentional. This was discussed at length before implementation.

FounderOne · 2018-07-09 06:46:08

When your kid jumps out of your arm in the naming process finish the naming press enter and press again enter, then the upper arrow then grab the kid again and directly press enter.

Naming is successful. If people don't name their baby's tell them why they should do it and how. You can stab, shoot or starve unnamed baby's too, better starve them otherwise lineage ban kicks in.

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 07:57:16

FounderOne wrote:

When your kid jumps out of your arm in the naming process finish the naming press enter and press again enter, then the upper arrow then grab the kid again and directly press enter. Naming is successful.

It's not my kids that gets unnamed. At least not intentionally. I ocassionally get unnamed kid in town, when I'm not even aware I had one. Heck, I watched one replay three times yesterday, when reporting other bug, and I still don't know when last kid was born.

FounderOne wrote:

If people don't name their baby's tell them why they should do it and how.

How can I find mother of an unnamed kid?

FounderOne wrote:

You can stab, shoot or starve unnamed baby's too, better starve them otherwise lineage ban kicks in.

This way we're are at square one, chasing griefer every single game. Getting a backpack and a weapon takes half a lifetime and I'm supposed to repeat it every single game in a town. He can repeatedly suicide 15-30 times per town, till he gets unnamed. No lineage ban when he fails. And no curse when he succeeds.

FounderOne · 2018-07-09 11:13:31

sc0rp wrote:

FounderOne wrote:
When your kid jumps out of your arm in the naming process finish the naming press enter and press again enter, then the upper arrow then grab the kid again and directly press enter. Naming is successful.
It's not my kids that gets unnamed. At least not intentionally. I ocassionally get unnamed kid in town, when I'm not even aware I had one. Heck, I watched one replay three times yesterday, when reporting other bug, and I still don't know when last kid was born.
FounderOne wrote:
If people don't name their baby's tell them why they should do it and how.
How can I find mother of an unnamed kid?
FounderOne wrote:
You can stab, shoot or starve unnamed baby's too, better starve them otherwise lineage ban kicks in.
This way we're are at square one, chasing griefer every single game. Getting a backpack and a weapon takes half a lifetime and I'm supposed to repeat it every single game in a town. He can repeatedly suicide 15-30 times per town, till he gets unnamed. No lineage ban when he fails. And no curse when he succeeds.

Watch the mums and you will probatly find the one that is not naming or ask or just kill the unnamed baby.

If you kill them with knife and bow lineage ban kicks in.

Last edited by FounderOne (2018-07-09 11:14:24)

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 11:56:46

FounderOne wrote:

Watch the mums and you will probatly find the one that is not naming

I can also watch the grass grow - the same level of fun. Besides they are all over the place. You need a separate guard per fertile woman.

FounderOne wrote:

or ask

Whom? If they are not naming kids, they are not likely to respond either.

FounderOne wrote:

or just kill the unnamed baby.
If you kill them with knife and bow lineage ban kicks in.

Takes half a lifetime to get one. And problem is 90% or more of unnamed kids are completely innocent. They are unnamed through no fault of their own. Heck, I sometimes even chase my mother, repeatedly asking for a name and end up unnamed still. In crowded towns I don't even notice sometimes that I had a kid myself.

So the solution is: kill dozen of players, maybe you'll get a griefer? And he will get only lineage ban, so he'll immediately become someone's else problem. Should you also stab all fertile women which you suspect of not naming their kids? Seems worse than the problem it tries to solve. People spawn as Eve's child and get immediately abandoned. People spawn in town and should get randomly stabbed by some dude. You are new player and you've missed that your kid was born - both you and him gets stabbed. Perfectly warm welcome for newcomers.

And there will be always some well intentioned newb, that'll feed unnamed kid. How could he know that feeding a berry to a starving kid, when there is plenty of food around, is capital offence now? I thought we're going away from "dontdothats". Don't pick the non-fruiting milkweed, don't drain the pond, don't drain the well, don't snare the non-family rabbit, don't feed the nameless kid. Some mom will anyway pick a griefer from crowded campfire by accident twice and he is good to go.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-09 13:43:20)

Erudaru · 2018-07-09 13:16:10

Can you curse someone without surname. Someone just called 'Bill'?

MidgetMaker · 2018-07-09 13:19:46

Erudaru wrote:

Can you curse someone without surname. Someone just called 'Bill'?

yes

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-09 15:42:26

This isn't a bug, exactly, so I'm moving it to main.

It's the main thing I wanted to discuss today.

How big is this problem? How likely is it to be exploited by a griefer? I guess the other problem is collateral damage: innocent unnamed babies who are not allowed to live out their lives because of griefer suspicion. Its not their fault, yet their game/life could be ruined because of it.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-09 16:04:44

Anyway, I'm looking to fix this in some simple way.

Here are some things to think about:

--I want the mother's role in naming a baby to be preserved. Your name should be special. The mother should matter. You shouldn't be able to pick your own name as a backup or override (obviously even more important now, because a griefer could shadow under the name of an elder). Other adults shouldn't be able to give you a name as a backup. Only your mother.

--I don't want to implement some complicated and error-prone UI for picking someone to curse. Imagine trying to click on someone who is trying to run away. Or some kind of UI pop-up with a face browser or whatever. Tons of work to implement well, and very little payoff. Speech is a fine way to build these kinds of features.

--You also shouldn't have to wait for someone to die to curse them. What if they run off and hide their grave? Or hide for the later part of their life until you forget about them?

--You shouldn't have to craft some object to use on them. Again, this requires that you chase after them and click on them.

And of course, that still leaves the nameless griefer hanging out there.

Why aren't people naming their babies?

Sometimes I feel like I've run out of creative juice and just don't want to pick a name. Maybe there's too much pressure? What if there was a name assistance service, where you type, "YOU ARE RANDOM" and then a random name is picked by the server for your baby? Maybe it would even replace it in the speech for other players to see. You could also do I AM RANDOM as Eve, with the same effect for last names.

But we still have to be able to level a curse at an unnamed person, somehow.

Maybe nicknames need to be possible? If someone is unnamed, then you can stand near them and say, "YOU ARE JOHNNY" to give them that nickname, but only you see them as Johny (when you mouse over), and then you can curse them as Johnny after that? But they aren't Johny to anyone else, nor in the family tree, etc. So the mother's role isn't subverted.

If there are multiple unnamed people, the closest one would get the nickname.

But I also see this as causing some confusion.... I say CURSE YOU JOHNNY and then my village friends wonder who I'm talking about, and now I have to explain, and they have to come up with a nickname too in order to join in...

Maybe the nickname sticks and is visible to everyone, but shows up in the client as "JOHNNY (NICKNAME) -- YOUR BROTHER", after it is used in a curse?

Unnamed griefers could just try to get away from people to avoid getting a nickname.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-09 16:07:42

Not liking the random name service so much.... I really want to place the burden of creativity squarely on your shoulders. I think it helps you to invest in your babies and the game. Random name service would be a crutch.

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 16:10:07

jasonrohrer wrote:

How big is this problem? How likely is it to be exploited by a griefer?

I can only talk from my own experience. On Saturday I've seen only griefers as petty thieves. On Sunday I've already encoutered unnamed murderer in town. So it's already being exploited. And hiding behind other baby at campfire makes it pretty trivial to exploit.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I guess the other problem is collateral damage: innocent unnamed babies who are not allowed to live out their lives because of griefer suspicion. Its not their fault, yet their game/life could be ruined because of it.

To stop it we are supposed to kill also mothers not naming their babies and newbies feeding starving kids. Or at least we should have never ending dontdothat talks.

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 16:16:35

jasonrohrer wrote:

What if there was a name assistance service, where you type, "YOU ARE RANDOM" and then a random name is picked by the server for your baby? Maybe it would even replace it in the speech for other players to see. You could also do I AM RANDOM as Eve, with the same effect for last names.

It's already there I had mother naming her kids "YOU ARE A", "YOU ARE B". Closest name is selected, frequently wrong gender though.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-09 16:23:14

Good point about the letter names and closest match.

Another idea: if you get past age 5 with no name, some kind of unique placeholder name is assigned. It doesn't show up in the family tree or anything, but it can be used to curse.

Maybe the list of words for the placeholder name is different from the list of actual names allowed.

I've also thought about numbers.... but worry that it would be aesthetically jarring.

24601

When they chained me and left me for dead
Just for stealing a mouth full of bread

Turnipseed · 2018-07-09 16:23:28

I played a couple dozen lives this weekend. All but one i had to deal with griefers. Sometimes named sometimes not.

Ive yet to see someone successfully cursed to the point of black bubbles.

Ive taken to not feeding babies that dont let me name them.

Mabey just assign a number to the end of nameless. So we can say curse you namelessVII

ryanb · 2018-07-09 16:29:06

I suggest these two changes.

1. If the mother isn't holding a child, it names their nearest unnamed child. This means if a baby jumps out of their arms it will still name them.

2. A mother can name her child even after they are older.

This way if a new player is educated on naming they can correct their mistake.

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 16:38:23

jasonrohrer wrote:

Another idea: if you get past age 5 with no name, some kind of unique placeholder name is assigned. It doesn't show up in the family tree or anything, but it can be used to curse.
Maybe the list of words for the placeholder name is different from the list of actual names allowed.

I'm fine with that. First come first serve would be good too - if mother cannot pick up a kid anymore, first person saying "YOU ARE ..." names him - people roleplay it already, it just doesn't show up anywhere.

While we're at it. Would it be possible to add random second name in case of duplicate names? How I'm supposed to know if there is no older Tom in lineage when I curse the young one? People are used to name kids as a tribute to parents/grandparents. Maybe at least add any of jr., II, III, the third.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I've also thought about numbers.... but worry that it would be aesthetically jarring.

Meh. Can trigger them for vendetta.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-09 16:48:25)

Luniatji · 2018-07-09 16:44:47

jasonrohrer wrote:

I want the mother's role in naming a baby to be preserved. Your name should be special. The mother should matter. You shouldn't be able to pick your own name as a backup or override (obviously even more important now, because a griefer could shadow under the name of an elder). Other adults shouldn't be able to give you a name as a backup. Only your mother.

I understand why you want it to be special, but some people/mother just aren't good mothers/persons. I have born a couple of times by a mom who then immediately tries to kill me. Maybe I’m weird, but I don’t run after her to ask for a name. I run away as hard as I can and find another person who didn’t want to kill me. That means that I’m of dead without a name, or living without a name..

On the other side, I have lots of times that a woman didn’t feed her kid and that I’m ending up feeding it. Yes, I could abandon it and just run away, but is it his fault that his mother didn’t want him? Is it his fault that she runs away? it his fault that his mom starved just when he was born? Is it his fault that she tried to kill him/her, just because he was born?!

I understand that you want it to be special, but that means that people have to feed and raise their kids.. And most people do that, but there are also a lot of people who don’t do that. I think three people per life I live didn’t do that. And that means that all those children, say eight per person so twenty-four babies, has to be killed/starved because their mom was bad. That means that those twenty-four babies don’t have a names and are being abandoned by not only their mom, but only the rest of the community because they could be griefers!

That’s why I didn’t think it is the best place that people can’t name them. I understand that not everyone can name them, because then some aunt can name you when your mom gets some food.. but there has to be something for them right? Why not the possible to adopt them? Yes, you aren’t their birth mom then, but you are their adopted mom/dad so could be the same rights.

forestglade · 2018-07-09 16:48:14

How about "Curse you unnamed" just pick the closest unnamed character. Applies to bones as well.

(I don't like numbers. I don't like random name assignations.)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-09 17:07:31

I came up with a short list of nicknames that aren't on the main list. Posting here just for laughs:

JERKY
LIVERLIPS
GOOF
MUTT
TURKEY
QUICKDRAW
BALDY
CURLY
NUTZ
GIMPY
SLEEPY
GROUCHO
BABYFACE
STRINGBEAN
DROOPY
HORSE

Anyway, I don't like where this is going, and I'm running out of creative steam fast anyway. And the list for female nicknames is much harder. I don't think females get nicknames as much as males do. At least in the US, it's really part of male culture. My dad grew up in a small town, and he was called Spider because he was skinny. His best friend was Goof. Other guys in town were Chit and Mutt, etc.

Female list:

TOOTS
SISSY
SWEETIE
CUTIE
BLONDIE
GINNER
BABS

Anyway, these lists are just for laughs.

New idea: if you reach age 5 with no name, you get randomly assigned initials. These would be based on true distributions of first and last names, so the initials X.Z. would be very unlikely.

I hear you about adopting parents wanting to name... maybe? But there's also the family line tracking issue, with the last name inherited from the birth mother.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-09 17:15:15

Errrrgggghhhh....

Maybe I just need to bite the bullet here and let anyone name any baby?

And let the last name come from the namer (but of course still track biological lineage for family trees, lineage bans, etc). Or only pass last name from bio mother, and leave last name blank if named by non-bio-mother? Or always take last name from bio mother no matter what? So you're born to EVE JONES, but she leaves you.

EVE SMITH picks you up and names you SALLY. You are in the JONES line on the family tree, but... what is your last name? I guess in real life, you'd have the last name SMITH.

Then if you make it to 5 years old with no name, the first person who says, "YOU ARE SUZY" or whatever names you? And then you really have no last name. If there are multiple unnamed people around, closest gets the name Suzy.

If you say that to an unnamed baby younger than 5, nothing happens, because you have to pick them up to do that.

sc0rp · 2018-07-09 17:18:41

+1
Inherit last name from adopting parent.

New griefing meta: people will steal a kid to name them after somebody they don't like.
Solution: add random second name or II, III, IV.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-09 17:24:53)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-07-09 01:48:28

Cannot curse unnamed kids

#2 2018-07-09 02:09:05

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#3 2018-07-09 02:30:32

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#4 2018-07-09 03:51:10

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#5 2018-07-09 04:25:35

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#6 2018-07-09 06:46:08

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#7 2018-07-09 07:57:16

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#8 2018-07-09 11:13:31

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#9 2018-07-09 11:56:46

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#10 2018-07-09 13:16:10

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#11 2018-07-09 13:19:46

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#12 2018-07-09 15:42:26

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#13 2018-07-09 16:04:44

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#14 2018-07-09 16:07:42

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#15 2018-07-09 16:10:07

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#16 2018-07-09 16:16:35

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#17 2018-07-09 16:23:14

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#18 2018-07-09 16:23:28

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#19 2018-07-09 16:29:06

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#20 2018-07-09 16:38:23

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#21 2018-07-09 16:44:47

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#22 2018-07-09 16:48:14

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

#23 2018-07-09 17:07:31

Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

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Re: Cannot curse unnamed kids

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