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#1 2018-05-01 05:42:38

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,804

How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Recent events in Discord have caused a bit of a stir.  An argument turned into death threats and implied Nazi rhetoric.  What shall we do about this kind of thing?

Here are my thoughts:

I don't really feel that it is my place to police any discussion content, unless it becomes disruptive to the other discussion.  Like, if someone is posting spam, that's disruptive.  If someone is posting endless, unrelated memes, that's disruptive.

Here is a case where someone made a statement that I don't agree with, and a threat that I would never make.  But I am not that person.  That person is responsible for their statements.  People come to discord as individuals, with a range of different beliefs and opinions.  Many of these beliefs and opinions are troubling to me.... but...

If someone is breaking the law, I would encourage you to seek the assistance of law enforcement.

If someone is causing you distress in Discord, please block them.

If someone is saying things in a forum thread that bother you, please stop reading that thread.

I'm kind of a free speech absolutist.  I frequently exercise my right to walk away or look away or change the channel.

"I may hate every word that comes out of your mouth, but I would die to protect your right to say it"....  that kind of thing.


That said, in the US, the Supreme Court has permitted the government to enforce "reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions."  Thus, your free speech right does not necessarily include driving down a residential street at 4am with a 2000 Watt speaker playing your message at full volume.  But notice that there is no such thing as "reasonable content restrictions," because the government is incapable of making those distinctions.

I view this kind of online community like the public area of a city.  There are reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions.  Don't post memes every second (time).  There's an off-topic channel for a reason (place).  Etc.  But the city is comprised of individuals with widely varying views, attitudes, tastes, cultures, languages, and so on.

As individuals, we always have the right to look away from things that bother us.  In discord, with the power of blocking, that right is inalienable de facto.  Please use it.


Now, the question remains whether this particular fight was off-topic or disruptive.  Maybe it was.  I encourage you to move your chat to the off-topic channel or private messages if you wish to continue an extended fight.

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#2 2018-05-01 18:56:11

Kinrany
Member
Registered: 2018-01-22
Posts: 712

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

I think this is more like a private party or a conference.

I understand free speech as having the ability to express a controversial opinion and be heard by those who are interested. As long as it's reasonably easy for the speaker to find a medium for that, everything is fine. They are not entitled to speak wherever they want.

jasonrohrer wrote:

As individuals, we always have the right to look away from things that bother us.  In discord, with the power of blocking, that right is inalienable de facto.  Please use it.

There's also the problem of trolls being fed by people you otherwise are interested in talking too.
Some Discord and Slack channels use reactions for similar purposes. Perhaps we could have a do not feed the troll reaction?

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#3 2018-05-01 19:12:03

YAHG
Member
Registered: 2018-04-06
Posts: 1,347

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

I think some people get super but-hurt when people dish it out back at them. I think if you seriously
think people are planning irl genocides of people it would be your duty to call the cops not ban em
from discord lol..

Given that doesn't seem to be the case unless it is messing with YOUR work F it let em whine. I think
it is hilarious when the trolls get histrionic and try to draw in a big daddy Admin to 'defend' them. It
is probably best not to take that sort of person too seriously and try to enjoy their liveliness and drama
as a pleasant diversion instead of a serious concern..

These people are amusing please don't ban them, mocking them is wonderful.


"be prepared and one person cant kill all city, if he can, then you deserve it"  -pein
https://kazetsukai.github.io/onetech/#
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1438

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#4 2018-05-01 21:36:02

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,804

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Kinrany, I agree about the nature of speech at a private party.

But this is more of a public party.  Everyone is invited.

I also agree 100% that the rules protecting the right to free speech do not necessarily apply here.  I could enforce whatever rules that I want to enforce.  I could force everyone to only chat in Esperanto, if I wanted.  If I did that, I would have three or for glorious days of mashing the ban button, and then there would be no one left.

Essentially, I just don't want to get involved in adjudicating individual disputes.  So and so broke the rules, I'm telling on you, and that kind of thing.  I would have to take a side, someone always gets angry, and it wastes a bunch of my time and energy.  These things blow over in time anyway.

Now, as for the community being welcoming to outsiders, I do have a serious interest in that.  My livelihood just may depend on it.  Please be welcoming to outsiders!

However, I have no idea how to enforce pleasantness, or what such a community would even look like.

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#5 2018-05-01 21:54:47

Kinrany
Member
Registered: 2018-01-22
Posts: 712

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Of course, the goal is to improve the value of discussion, and banning most people wouldn't help with that.

On the other hand, tolerating questionable behavior discourages from participating those who have higher standards and value their time more.

The best communities that I know are LessWrong, SlateStarCodex and HackerNews, not sure if you heard of any of them. I suspect they succeed mainly by filtering, and making an already existing community that good would take years at best.

Still, not filtering out one group means filtering out all the other groups that the first group alienates.

By the way, being able to block people on the forums too would be nice.

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#6 2018-05-01 22:04:38

Kinrany
Member
Registered: 2018-01-22
Posts: 712

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Here's a relevant LW post, and here's SSC's comment policy.

And I just noticed that this is basically the griefing problem :)

Last edited by Kinrany (2018-05-01 22:04:46)

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#7 2018-05-01 22:32:38

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,804

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Some fellows with beards are fixin to tell you all about it here:

https://youtu.be/oLA4lEtmH2A?t=2m8s

I don't know much about "the patriot community," but that video made me cry.

But yeah, I also want a good community, so maybe I'll need to change my mind about this....

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#8 2018-05-02 00:25:52

OxPower
Member
Registered: 2018-03-26
Posts: 34

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

There might be a reason to create a #NewPlayer  or a #Introduceyourself. Something for new people to show up and chat without getting eaten up by the existential crisis and meme central that is #General.

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#9 2018-05-02 04:05:45

KucheKlizma
Member
Registered: 2018-04-14
Posts: 100

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

A game's forum isn't really the place for free speech. Not saying it needs politically biased or ideological censorship, it just needs to be moderated from extreme or otherwise malignant content.
First priority is always unlawful content (for the region where the website resides), or it would just get taken down. Then usually comes spam, ads, scams, viruses, naming and shaming, extreme vulgarity and extreme confrontation.
It's never perfect, but nothing ever is.

Freedom of speech is a more of a - if you write down something on a notepad in your home, you don't get to have a visitor accidentally spot it, report you to the police and get executed for it while having it burned. It's not absolute, it's just tuned up a little bit - let's keep it that way.

Last edited by KucheKlizma (2018-05-02 04:07:12)

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#10 2018-05-02 06:00:39

akoopatroop
Member
Registered: 2018-04-21
Posts: 50

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

jasonrohrer wrote:

...unless it becomes disruptive to the other discussion.  Like, if someone is posting spam, that's disruptive.  If someone is posting endless, unrelated memes, that's disruptive.

I'm not in on the details of this fight, nor do I want to be, but this surprised me.

Memes and spam are more clearly disruptive than deliberately alienating and violent words? The "just ignore it" advice applies even more to spam and memes than to hate speech. It seems a really odd line to draw.

Don't get me wrong, it's your parlour, I'm happy to abide by your rules. But, *memes* are more disruptive than language (can't really call it conversation) that is explicitly about driving people away?

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#11 2018-05-02 08:09:13

Nubbcakes
Member
Registered: 2018-03-26
Posts: 27

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

akoopatroop wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:

...unless it becomes disruptive to the other discussion.  Like, if someone is posting spam, that's disruptive.  If someone is posting endless, unrelated memes, that's disruptive.

I'm not in on the details of this fight, nor do I want to be, but this surprised me.

Memes and spam are more clearly disruptive than deliberately alienating and violent words? The "just ignore it" advice applies even more to spam and memes than to hate speech. It seems a really odd line to draw.

Don't get me wrong, it's your parlour, I'm happy to abide by your rules. But, *memes* are more disruptive than language (can't really call it conversation) that is explicitly about driving people away?

i second this

it's completely understandable to not want to have a strict set of rules and guidelines, and to allow people their freedom to express themselves, but i've seen plenty of hate speech, racism, nazi rhetoric, ect. in the discord as well as the forums in the few weeks i've been part of the community.

these things are not "opinions" that are in need of protection, they are violent and create a hostile environment to both new and existing players. just looking the other way isn't really a solution, it allows hatred to dominate the space and forces out players who are here to enjoy the community and the game. the people that exhibit this behavior lose nothing, but the people they're referring to, the people they're harming, are.

i understand that it's difficult to moderate public forums like this and provide the most fair and unbiased judgement in these situations;

KucheKlizma wrote:

A game's forum isn't really the place for free speech. Not saying it needs politically biased or ideological censorship, it just needs to be moderated from extreme or otherwise malignant content.

as the community gets bigger, this will become even more relevant, and i think that enforcing at least a very basic set of rules and boundaries would be in the best interest of it's growth-- asking people to refrain from use of hate speech, slurring, or even posting graphic imagery isn't denying anyone their rights, it's just keeping the environment hospitable and accessible to everyone.

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#12 2018-05-02 08:31:30

Lum
Member
Registered: 2018-04-03
Posts: 406

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Nubbcakes wrote:

as the community gets bigger, this will become even more relevant, and i think that enforcing at least a very basic set of rules and boundaries would be in the best interest of it's growth-- asking people to refrain from use of hate speech, slurring, or even posting graphic imagery isn't denying anyone their rights, it's just keeping the environment hospitable and accessible to everyone.

Exactly. There is no way the community will ever grow well if it is littered with toxic comments and questionable behaviors. Everyone has to make compromises to evolve with others. If everyone just says whatever they want and throws hate and violence at anyone they dislike, then cooperation and communication effectively becomes impossible. And walking away isn't a good option, for it doesn't solve anything. It simply ostracizes people more, it makes them feel unwanted, unsafe, attacked with no way of retaliating since the offender can apparently say whatever they want.

Last edited by Lum (2018-05-02 08:32:19)


ign: summerstorm, they/them

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#13 2018-05-02 08:41:31

Drakulon
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 136

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Nubbcakes wrote:

it's completely understandable to not want to have a strict set of rules and guidelines, and to allow people their freedom to express themselves, but i've seen plenty of hate speech, racism, nazi rhetoric, ect. in the discord as well as the forums in the few weeks i've been part of the community.

I dont use discord, but i am on the forums quite often. Where is the racism and hate speech you are talking about? Pls give links.
I think 99.9% of posts here have nothing to do with hate speech and racism.

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#14 2018-05-02 09:04:21

mikekchar
Member
Registered: 2018-03-19
Posts: 51

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

I'll give my 2 cents (and I have only 4 minutes free to do so, which is probably good :-) ).  I've worked as a teacher before.  Free speech is awesome.  You want people to speak freely -- especially in a classroom.  How else can they learn?  But sometimes there are disruptions.  Sometimes the disruptions are intentional.  Sometimes they are not.  It doesn't matter why the disruptions exist: if you let them disrupt the group, then the group will be disrupted.

Group dynamics are tricky and can move from wonderful to horrible in a speed that can take your breath.  Some people are very good at moving group dynamics in the horrible direction.  Sometimes they do it on purpose.  Sometimes they don't.

You can't be fair.  You can't allow everything.  You must act.  If you do not, the group will implode.  Your chief tools are guidelines that allow people to intuit what will cause problems and what will not.  You should communicate those guidelines.  When you act to correct a problem, you should do so quickly, with humility and you should explain why you are doing what you are doing.  That action should help you adjust your guidelines in the future.

Time up :-)

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#15 2018-05-02 09:07:30

Nubbcakes
Member
Registered: 2018-03-26
Posts: 27

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Drakulon wrote:
Nubbcakes wrote:

it's completely understandable to not want to have a strict set of rules and guidelines, and to allow people their freedom to express themselves, but i've seen plenty of hate speech, racism, nazi rhetoric, ect. in the discord as well as the forums in the few weeks i've been part of the community.

I dont use discord, but i am on the forums quite often. Where is the racism and hate speech you are talking about? Pls give links.
I think 99.9% of posts here have nothing to do with hate speech and racism.

you're right, it isn't really as much of a problem on the forums themselves, especially not as of late with the new moderation. i'm saying i have seen it at some point, and i don't remember well enough to go digging in old threads for examples, but i will say there is presently a member on the forum with a literal nazi slogan signature, not sure if it's been changed yet but...

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#16 2018-05-02 09:45:29

Drakulon
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 136

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

What comes next has probably nothing to do with this discussion and is a bit off topic, but i want to mention it anyways, because its a very difficult problem to solve.

Bitcoin is a public block chain, everyone can upload data/text to it. Noone can remove/change the text after it got uploaded but everyone can see it.
People uploaded dark web links to child porn on bitcoin. These links are now hosted by countless servers around the world 24/7
Everyone who is mining bitcoin is also hosting child porn links.
Are the people mining bitcoin evil? Do we have to say no to this awsome new technolgy only because one sick guy uploaded the wrong thing?
The whole idea of bitcoin is that it is unchangeable, censorship resistant, this is what makes it so great, if you remove that, it is not bitcoin anymore.
I personally think that the advantages of bitcoin are much greater than the disadvantages.
It might be that, with this new technology comming out, we have to rethink how we treat this kind of harmful information in order to make progress and evolve.

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#17 2018-05-02 10:23:26

Nubbcakes
Member
Registered: 2018-03-26
Posts: 27

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Drakulon wrote:

Are the people mining bitcoin evil? Do we have to say no to this awsome new technolgy only because one sick guy uploaded the wrong thing?
The whole idea of bitcoin is that it is unchangeable, censorship resistant, this is what makes it so great, if you remove that, it is not bitcoin anymore.
I personally think that the advantages of bitcoin are much greater than the disadvantages.
It might be that, with this new technology comming out, we have to rethink how we treat this kind of harmful information in order to make progress and evolve.

no, someone including content like this isn't reason enough to discontinue the use of bitoin, it means that there is a small handful of people that are abusing the freedom granted by the platform to spread evil. it means that we do need to rethink how we treat these situations and that we do need to enforce at least minimal restrictions and moderation because obviously without them, things like this are allowed to happen. again, harmful content isn't in need of protection from censorship, it needs to be addressed for society's protection.

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#18 2018-05-02 11:18:54

Alleria
Member
Registered: 2018-03-30
Posts: 339

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Nubbcakes wrote:
Drakulon wrote:
Nubbcakes wrote:

it's completely understandable to not want to have a strict set of rules and guidelines, and to allow people their freedom to express themselves, but i've seen plenty of hate speech, racism, nazi rhetoric, ect. in the discord as well as the forums in the few weeks i've been part of the community.

I dont use discord, but i am on the forums quite often. Where is the racism and hate speech you are talking about? Pls give links.
I think 99.9% of posts here have nothing to do with hate speech and racism.

you're right, it isn't really as much of a problem on the forums themselves, especially not as of late with the new moderation. i'm saying i have seen it at some point, and i don't remember well enough to go digging in old threads for examples, but i will say there is presently a member on the forum with a literal nazi slogan signature, not sure if it's been changed yet but...

If you're upset that easily, then I'm happy to oblige (read my sig)...

There's a fine line between turning the Discord/forum into a "safe space" versus a place where people on occasion are offended. Given this is a multiplayer game and given human nature, there will always be griefing. So long as people are allowed to brag about their griefs in a public forum, there will inevitably be people who take offence and will retaliate in a negative fashion. Some people have complained about the uses of words like "pleb" and "noob", although there have been more negative words thrown around (often in a humorous context). No matter how far you censor, there will always be someone offended. For example, I assume the signature I'm using for this post will offend some, given the author, but you could hardly say the quote itself is offensive. But who's to say which authors are offensive and which aren't? I've seen just as many references to communism and Stalinism, but nobody seems to be getting offended at that - and rightfully so. Some of the people here seem to have difficulty with irony and humour - not everything you read is said seriously or with ill intent.

Obviously as a community we don't want to drive away new players. We want to foster a pleasant "garden" where people feel welcome both so the game continues to attract new people, but also retain those who already play. Many of us notice the player turnover is rather high, decreasing the value of teaching the plebs, since they might only play the game for another few lives. We also want to keep the sales figures high so Jason has a motivation to add new content. I personally don't see how memes or unrelated but civil intellectual discussions make the environment "toxic", and frankly, if that turns you off, then just don't read it. I think the current "rule" that you shouldn't interrupt game related conversations is working well.

What should be done? We could have a joke and meme-free sterile environment, which would eliminate some of the potential for offence, but it'd mean the fun police win. Alternatively, we trust one another to self-regulate and encourage each other to speak up (or a tap on the shoulder by a mod) when someone is saying something offensive. I know which one I'd rather.


"Words build bridges into unexplored regions"

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#19 2018-05-02 11:57:19

Nubbcakes
Member
Registered: 2018-03-26
Posts: 27

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Alleria wrote:

What should be done? We could have a joke and meme-free sterile environment, which would eliminate some of the potential for offence, but it'd mean the fun police win.

straight up just gonna say this conversation isn't about silly memes and if you think people calmly and reasonably suggesting measures to prevent people from having to see people in a gaming chat telling each other 'stfu n*****' and advocating genocide is policing "fun" i really don't know what to tell you lol

i may be making an assumption here, but you probably don't see a problem with spreading and associating yourself with white nationalism because you aren't affected by it, thus you think this conversation is unneeded and that rules would be detrimental to your entertainment. this isn't about creating a spotless "safe space" for easily offended people, it's about discouraging deplorable behavior that could potentially drive away players and revenue for the game, and if someone's willingness to participate in a community relies on their ability to let their hate flag fly, that's just. sad. and i hope they find themselves in a better place one day.

Alleria wrote:

Alternatively, we trust one another to self-regulate and encourage each other to speak up (or a tap on the shoulder by a mod) when someone is saying something offensive. I know which one I'd rather.

i will say that when i have seen moderators step in, it's good and well. but that doesn't mean the moderators will always be around or catch these things, so it's best that there at least be some measures to let people know what isn't tolerated readily available on a rules page or something of the sort. i also would recommend placing the moderators in a group that's visible in the 'online' section of the discord channel, so if one is needed, anyone will be able to reach them, including new users who might not be aware of who is and isn't a mod. i know that they do have roles assigned to them, but to find one you'd have to click through the entire user list.

Last edited by Nubbcakes (2018-05-02 12:37:25)

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#20 2018-05-02 12:36:30

Alleria
Member
Registered: 2018-03-30
Posts: 339

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Nubbcakes wrote:
Alleria wrote:

Some of the people here seem to have difficulty with irony and humour - not everything you read is said seriously or with ill intent.

straight up just gonna say this conversation isn't about silly memes and if you think people calmly and reasonably suggesting measures to prevent people from having to see people in a gaming chat telling each other 'stfu n*****' and advocating genocide is policing "fun" i really don't know what to tell you lol

i may be making an assumption here, but you probably don't see a problem with spreading and associating yourself with white nationalism because you aren't affected by it, thus you think this conversation is unneeded and that rules would be detrimental to your entertainment. this isn't about creating a spotless "safe space" for easily offended people, it's about discouraging deplorable behavior that could potentially drive away players and revenue for the game, and if someone's willingness to participate in a community relies on their ability to let their hate flag fly, that's just. sad. and i hope they find themselves in a better place one day.

Instead of making this about your opinion of my character, or assumptions about my beliefs, you could have stuck to the point. There is always going to be a degree of toxicity - especially in a game that enables griefing. The topic at hand is about the relationship between freedom of speech, "toxic speech" and the ideal balance between the two. Empower the mods to give official warnings in extreme occasions, sure, but banning people for holding an opinion you disagree with? I hope you can see the irony.

Edit: It's interesting to consider that if threatening to grief or bragging about it were "bannable" then this shit show wouldn't have occurred in the first place.

Last edited by Alleria (2018-05-02 12:42:03)


"Words build bridges into unexplored regions"

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#21 2018-05-02 13:04:33

Nubbcakes
Member
Registered: 2018-03-26
Posts: 27

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Alleria wrote:

Instead of making this about your opinion of my character, or assumptions about my beliefs, you could have stuck to the point. There is always going to be a degree of toxicity - especially in a game that enables griefing. The topic at hand is about the relationship between freedom of speech, "toxic speech" and the ideal balance between the two. Empower the mods to give official warnings in extreme occasions, sure, but banning people for holding an opinion you disagree with? I hope you can see the irony.

Edit: It's interesting to consider that if threatening to grief or bragging about it were "bannable" then this shit show wouldn't have occurred in the first place.

i don't think anyone here said anything about banning people with differing opinions, much less anything about people being able to grief or brag about griefing. do that all you want, it's just a game, and talking about griefing in a game isn't violent ideology meant to tear down entire groups of real people. griefing may have been part of the argument jason was referring to, but ultimately this topic is less about the argument itself and more about the things said during the argument and troubling ideals that users are expressing.

i'm not saying to ban everyone you don't agree with, not at all, i'm saying that telling someone that they deserve to die or to kill themselves and then turning around and acting like it was a completely innocent "opinion" or a joke that's protected by freedom of speech is wrong and that it should be discouraged from the start, not after the damage has been done.

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#22 2018-05-02 13:23:27

Alleria
Member
Registered: 2018-03-30
Posts: 339

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Nubbcakes wrote:

i'm not saying to ban everyone you don't agree with, not at all, i'm saying that telling someone that they deserve to die or to kill themselves and then turning around and acting like it was a completely innocent "opinion" or a joke that's protected by freedom of speech is wrong and that it should be discouraged from the start, not after the damage has been done.

This is really not the right place for this, but you've brought it up. You're coming from a place of low information - as is everyone except for those directly involved (Vaidisss and myself). I apologised for the main two things I said, and that apology was accepted (he changed his mind after the fact). If you're going to harass someone for most days for a week, expect retaliation. Genocide in the context of the game is when you wipe out a village that's being mismanaged, often before repopulating - I don't know who coined the term. I lost my temper, said mean things, and I regret it.

Also, I keep hearing about a "threat". I never threatened anyone.

Edit: I should be the one apologising because in retrospect it turns out I brought it up in my previous edit lol...

Last edited by Alleria (2018-05-02 13:48:23)


"Words build bridges into unexplored regions"

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#23 2018-05-02 13:42:30

Nubbcakes
Member
Registered: 2018-03-26
Posts: 27

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Alleria wrote:

This is really not the right place for this, but you've brought it up. You're coming from a place of low information - as is everyone except for those directly involved (Vaidisss and myself). I apologised for the main two things I said, and that apology was accepted (he changed his mind after the fact). If you're going to harass someone for most days for a week, expect retaliation. Genocide in the context of the game is when you wipe out a village that's being mismanaged, often before repopulating - I don't know who coined the term. I lost my temper, said mean things, and I regret it.

Also, I keep hearing about a "threat". I never threatened anyone.

oops, i want to apologize if it feels like i'm directly attacking you or trying to put emphasis on the whole event itself. to be honest i didn't even remember who exactly was involved with the whole debacle. what i wrote was more to reference examples of the general behaviors and attitudes i've seen and am suggesting be addressed more, not to try and spark the whole thing up again or use as ammunition against you. i'm sorry for that.

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#24 2018-05-02 15:52:49

teanah
Member
Registered: 2018-03-09
Posts: 29

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Nubbcakes wrote:

it's completely understandable to not want to have a strict set of rules and guidelines, and to allow people their freedom to express themselves, but i've seen plenty of hate speech, racism, nazi rhetoric, ect. in the discord as well as the forums in the few weeks i've been part of the community.
these things are not "opinions" that are in need of protection, they are violent and create a hostile environment to both new and existing players. just looking the other way isn't really a solution, it allows hatred to dominate the space and forces out players who are here to enjoy the community and the game. the people that exhibit this behavior lose nothing, but the people they're referring to, the people they're harming, are.

Totally agree.

Two weeks ago when a Chinese player announced that there were some players from there joining the game they got a bunch of cruel replies and someone made a crack about needing to add 'dog pie' to the game.

If the goal is to be welcoming to new players that isn't the way to do it.

Making this forum a 'free speech zone' with no rules or content guidelines guarantees that people will use it as a place to post racist, sexist and cruel things.

The game's discord is a particularly unwelcoming place, but at least discord has a 'block' functionality. The forum doesn't.  If you ask those bothered by the cruelty to ignore threads that include these type of posts you are essentially asking them not to participate in the forums at all because any thread has the potential to devolve into an off topic toxic sludge pit.  The only people who will keep posting will be the unpleasant, unwelcoming folks. Because these are 'official' forums instead of just a fan page that reputation will rub off on the game.

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#25 2018-05-02 19:17:39

akoopatroop
Member
Registered: 2018-04-21
Posts: 50

Re: How we deal with troubling speech in the forums or discord

Alleria wrote:

I personally don't see how memes or unrelated but civil intellectual discussions make the environment "toxic", and frankly, if that turns you off, then just don't read it.

Just want to point out  that this is exactly the point that started this subthread, because Jason used the example of "endless memes" as something disruptive enough to moderate, but that if people felt threatened or unsafe or "offended" they should go the police (implying it wouldn't be something for him or forum moderators to deal with). This dissonance baffled me immensely.

So, environments can be toxic, but civil intellectual discussions certainly doesn't make it so. People shouting slurs and refusing to talk civilly makes it toxic. Individuals fighting with each other over specific  grievances is something else entirely and not at all what I'm talking about.

Note I haven't consistently seen it on the forums (yet), nor am I on discord. In-game so far I've seen it dealt with promptly and/or dealt with it myself.

There is a huge and important difference between hate speech/toxic environment and merely "being offended", individuals fighting, or "differences of opinions". Having clear moderation rules promotes free speech.

I have no patience for people who are easily offended. I am adamantly opposed to hate speech. That does not mean I want people banned or punished the second they misspeak.

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