Game is dying

ConfandibulumFlakes · 2018-04-26 14:27:10

The game is about survival strategies, and how cooperation can maximize the chances of survival. Period.

Decay makes this more vital than it's ever been before.

Being a new player or an experienced player doesn't matter. Pulling rank like that is a trap that makes the game harder.

In fact it is essential that the cooperation of the experienced player and the new player be as positive and efficient as possible.

What's more the question of the game's difficulty can't be the main focus. The obligation to create sustained culture and sustained civilization is inherently a question of fun.

You know another thing civilizations do to survive? Celebratory rituals. There is a time to work and a time to have fun.

And when it's time to have fun, everyone has fun together.

And the fun doesn't come from doing the work, the fun comes from enjoying the fruits of the work with other people.

This is how real civilizations work, and it's the only way OHOL civilizatons can work.

The game lives or dies on childrearing. The difficulty of the game is irrelevant. If childrearing is seen as a labor and not an opportunity, civilizations will never survive. The opporunity is not just training in crafting, it's training in fun.

Glassius · 2018-04-26 14:34:51

ConfandibulumFlakes wrote:

Hi guys, only been
And players are failing at this ridiculously. Even in the most sophisticated settlements I've been born into, when I was old enough to ask "what do I do" the only answer I got was "help."

It is a waste of time to communicate 5 letter words. Waste a time to wait to read 6 lonely words making a sentence.

The point is Maslow piramide. We are all at bottom: fighting for sustain. Except for city dwellers: they are one step higher, fighting the griefers (the next step will be wars and allegiance, but it is impossible in current game state).

When people have to choose their time: communicate or do anything useful, when there are so many things to do, nobody will choose to communicate. Solutions:
1. Jason has to add voice chat and allow all players to fully communicate via keyboard chat
2. Jason must apply some pause system, where we can stay longer chatting in no rush for eating/gathering. Something like sleep mode, resting in tent, night. At least sitting

Without that, only people coordinaded outside of game, like 111 gen Discord group are able to achieve anything.

Last edited by Glassius (2018-04-26 16:41:54)

breezeknight · 2018-04-26 14:35:04

ConfandibulumFlakes wrote:

The game is about survival strategies, and how cooperation can maximize the chances of survival. Period.
...

well, you must know it, you develop it, right ?

ConfandibulumFlakes · 2018-04-26 15:00:18

Well, despite being all brash-assertion-y, I'm open to rebuttal.

If you don't think cooperative focus is the *ne plus ultra*, I'd like to hear your reasoning.

ConfandibulumFlakes · 2018-04-26 15:05:28

Maslow's triangle is about the needs of the individual, not about how those needs are met. The triangle implies the necessity of cooperation when given any serious thought.

Look, why would this game exist if Jason just wanted it to be played like any other game?

It's stated right up front: the game's about cooperation and child-rearing.

If Jason's designed it right, and you're having trouble with the game, it's because you're not putting enough effort into cooperation and child-rearing.

And if those are indeed the priorities of the designer, neglecting the necessity of in-game communication will be entirely the least successful way to play.

Last edited by ConfandibulumFlakes (2018-04-26 15:05:42)

Turnipseed · 2018-04-26 15:18:16

palisade wrote:

Potjeh wrote:
Oh wow. You guys are really burning out Jason quick. Jason, you really need to take a day or two to rest, this ain't good for you.
Well, in defense of the ppl on discord, all they were saying is that they didn't like the update. People have a right not to like an update.

Would solve my problem with it

Go! Bwah! · 2018-04-26 15:33:12

palisade wrote:

I guess Jason's point was that people aren't giving the update a chance. It's up to players to struggle to survive in the hell that he has designed for us.

Thing is, once you've formed a tentative opinion like, "this game is just going to be hard instead of fun and life is already hard (with greater rewards) thus this game is a waste of time", all you have to do is evaluate changes against that, and that process is very quick. "Oh look, decay; that makes the game harder. Bye!"

arkajalka · 2018-04-26 15:35:53

All i have to say, is please fix the game i love it and hate to see it die.

Lily · 2018-04-26 15:39:24

I am inclined to give Jason a chance, since he does usually fix the stuff he breaks. He put in the apocalypse and it was too crazy but then he did take it out. The decay was crazy for some items, like baskets falling apart within 30 minutes, and he changed it to an hour instead.

I think the problem is that we are basically alpha testers and testing out the stuff he puts into game live, so there are many issues. A lot of people didn't buy the game thinking they were alpha testers.

Angel Carrillo · 2018-04-26 15:53:58

GOOD GOD! Why has this gotten so heated? The dude. Is. One. Person. Similar to the early days of Minecraft when Notch had a dev. team composed of himself! That's it. Just one dude. ONE. The game is in alpha, so, the issues, like Minecraft's, the game will improve over TIME. We have to wait. I will admit, even I'm a little annoyed at the difficulty. But, we all have to hang on. He is getting the game into shape right now, a very rough shape. It won't be like this forever! I mean, it was, he would have stated that it would stay like this. So, I think we need to hang on, and calm down, the game is only a clay mold of its future state.

Darcie · 2018-04-26 16:06:46

Right now, as much as I want the game to be fun. It just isn't. The decay implementation needs some tweaks and then it should be fine. Normally designers need to ignore how plays suggest things change and focus on what it is that bothers them. I don't know what the rules are for when another developer plays your game, but I guess it can't hurt to say how I would try adjusting things as a first step. Obviously it will take more than one adjustment to figure out what works best and some decay and durability may simply have to be removed in the end.

1) I would use look away decay. That is to say, that only sectors that have had no interaction for several hours start to decay (or at the very least only decay while all players are away, time could accumulate during awayness and then the first time an area is alone for 5 minutes after the threshold is met trigger the decay instead of needing it all at once. Your choice, and I'm sure there are other means of implementing it). Decay could be grid based with a distributed random on the chunk. First clearing out structures, and later after a second look away threshold is met, small objects and tools could decay. At the same time, trees and other resources should fill in some of the cleared spaces. In this scenario, Players never have items decay out from under them, instead they just encounter ancient overgrown ruins, and if it goes long enough fresh wilderness. A much more fun experience than items breaking just sitting next to you.
(I am assuming you mark items with a counter to approach decay events rather than running timers on everything).

2) I would double the durability on all current items using durability because they all feel brittle right now, and then add a means of repair that uses fewer resources than needing to replace the whole object or introduce recycling where parts can be reclaimed. For example, a half decayed basket that is come upon needs to have a reed added to it to restore it. A broken hatchet needs a new handle. A broken ax breaks into a dull axe head, you sharpen the axe head and put it on a new shaft, or you get back scrap metal and reforge it.

I want it to be fun, but I find my self stopping mid play and just exiting the game out of dullness, something I hadn't experienced in the game until the decay and durability features were added. I don't know if this is because the flow is interrupted, or because it just feels like nothing ever goes anywhere, but it is definitely a blah feeling. I also haven't been able to do anything but try to not die/try to keep other people from dieing and replace broken stuff, so I haven't even gotten to experiment with any of the newer stuff.

Last edited by Darcie (2018-04-26 21:12:24)

Babipoki · 2018-04-26 16:29:32

Potjeh wrote:

Wurm Online definitely seems designed to be a chore :]

If you don't know how to play it or have no friends who enjoy it - surely.

stickyflypaper · 2018-04-26 16:30:23

In most cases, with other games, I think many players are a bit too demanding and impatient with the developers.
But with this game, I feel the complaints are valid. The game, as it is now, is mostly just frustrating to play.

I also understand that Jason wants to work out the core mechanics of the game before adding content on top of it.
However, at this point, he needs to throw us a bone.

(I'm not a game developer, but I do create art content for people, and I know the struggle with working on your passion projects while also giving your audience what they want)

breezeknight · 2018-04-26 16:34:29

palisade wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
i think the most important is that Jason sticks to his own vision, no matter what, the vision is the most crucial part to keep this game, any game going well, not what people are complaining about
the vision is the most important, it has to lead the way, because it is the beacon in unknown, unexplored terrain
Let's face it, if Jason relies solely on his own vision this is the kind of stuff we're in for:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … cepted.png

i personally have nothing against the probability of an ax breakage with the first swing

i did get used already to me spawning as Eve in badlands surrounded by snow, followed by snake infested desert with no cactus, followed by another badlands this time with some wolves skulking & two caves of bears
so how bad can it be to make an ax break immediately after a long manufacturing process ?

anyway, i don't think Jason will implement it this hard, he explained the thoughts behind though in the thread he made
the ideas behind are not because he wants to make the in game life even harder but because of the complex computation OHOL will have to face if the game progresses, randomization of stuff happening is one of the possible options

so this is not about vision but about a solution to an upcoming problem

KewlCrayon · 2018-04-26 16:49:21

If only the lives were 2 hours. You could accomplish so much more within your life.
Kind of ruins the 1 Hour 1 Life name, but man that 1 hour is severely limited

Also the decay is far too quick.

I remember when Rust first came out, and the decay on the buildings took along time to get right, like years to get right. Eventually they settled on giving everything a visible health bar, and over time, slowly, this health bar would decrease if not interacted with, and if it wasnt interacted with within a few days, it would despawn. This decaying health bar also doubled as its durability bar for taking on damage. More advanced buildings would last longer, but ultimately would suffer the same decay over time.

If jason wrote this into the game he could fix alot of the problem with having to call on so many values to items that have a certain number of uses, and can essentially halt the problem with everyones settlements, tools, and baskets decaying after just one lifetime, causing the next generation to have to constantly remake everything.

Take a note from Rust, give everything a decaying health bar that will ultimately time out after lets say 1-3 full day depending on what it is, and add in some craftable repair kits for smaller, and larger items.
Allow someone to be able to craft this, and virtually run around and right click on everything to restore everything's decay bars.
Now the server isnt calling on so many variables, as long as there's a player, your items can be maintained, and at the same time, empty settlements eventually despawn after inactivity.

Aname · 2018-04-26 18:21:08

lmao i started this topic bcuz i was bored and some joriom said that i had to make topics that the game was dying

Potjeh · 2018-04-26 18:29:21

Hm, you might be onto something with Rust comparisons. What if we had a Tool Cupboard equivalent that you'd feed resources and it'd auto repair stuff in it's radius?

Verinon1 · 2018-04-26 19:51:54

I’m fine with things decaying and wearing out after so many uses, it’s the containers I have a problem with. Makes the ground clutter waaaay worse. If he wants us to be making more baskets all the time then reeds need to be respawning a lot quicker than they do now.

Glassius · 2018-04-26 20:29:54

ConfandibulumFlakes wrote:

Maslow's triangle is about the needs of the individual, not about how those needs are met. The triangle implies the necessity of cooperation when given any serious thought.

But there is no need for serious thought. After building sustainable village there is no more to do. This is why Jason is making it harded. But it implies less and less role play with every update.

From the Maslow triangle comes the order: basic needs -> security -> allegiance -> feeling rewarded and needed -> self expression

We are between 2 first steps. There is no allegiance: no city names, no history, no wars. Only survival. If we get epic missions, or necessity to actually cooperate, we would feel as the part of the community. Other MMO's are making it by trinity tank/dps/healer. Everybody is needed and you actually really urges to cooperate. There are some approaches, like 3-shot bear or watering adobe wall and bell tower.

ConfandibulumFlakes wrote:

It's stated right up front: the game's about cooperation and child-rearing.

Of course it is not I mean, it is, by the first time somebody raises you to adultthood. It sometimes happens you are raised by caring mother. I was talking to my kids 'I love u', as kid. I typed 'Mum' as fast as I could. Then I died, because all this caring-communication leaved no time to eat. Most caring persons are newbies without clothes.

I was succesful in OHOL only when I neglected communication, when everybody knew what to do and did not talk, like in sweat shop. Jason even aims in making it more sweat shop to give players challenge. There is less and less place for caring about others.

U know the games theory? Optimal strategy is when everybody communicates and they care about community. But evolutionary stable (in OHOL) is only to care about own business. Kids? Valuable only if they know mechanics and will contribute to society. Type Q or feed the snakes

ConfandibulumFlakes wrote:

And if those are indeed the priorities of the designer, neglecting the necessity of in-game communication will be entirely the least successful way to play.

Of course it is not his aim. He wants to put there emotions and drama. Mostly about bad situation, but:
1. We don't care
2. If we care, we die. You say you care? You raise all your children? You don't eugenic boys? How succesful are your villages?
3. Go back to point 1.

There is clearly no game design. OHOL is a social experiment, not only because nobody know what strategies players take, but also because game designs depends very heavily on players suggestion. And we should be very careful what we want, because some of us lobbed for decay

palisade wrote:

I love your sleep idea, I've thought of the same thing myself. If I need to walk away and take a dump, I have to accept that my character is going to die

It's not mine. I've read it on Reddit.

TrustyWay · 2018-04-26 22:24:05

Glassius wrote:

But there is no need for serious thought. After building sustainable village there is no more to do. This is why Jason is making it harded. But it implies less and less role play with every update.

The ''nothing more to do'' is the uncreative people argument. We had many things to do, players were developping, we had roads, we started wars, peace, making stories, religions, rules. Now we have to stick to a precise strategy and do nothing else. We were waiting for content because the game had a almost perfect shape, not a remaking of it. why the game got so much hype ? Maybe because it was interesting. Why that many players play less and less ? Because. Hem hem hem. He didn't make the game harder, it's tedious. Now it still is very easy to start everything but it's just looooong, very looong.

Glassius wrote:

We are between 2 first steps. There is no allegiance: no city names, no history, no wars. Only survival. If we get epic missions, or necessity to actually cooperate, we would feel as the part of the community. Other MMO's are making it by trinity tank/dps/healer. Everybody is needed and you actually really urges to cooperate. There are some approaches, like 3-shot bear or watering adobe wall and bell tower.

We had city name, we had history, we had wars, he had communication and ways to make people feel part of the community. Now it is only survival without words. By making us work more repetitivly we are losing qualities. That is why you dont make your employees work all the time, if not they quit you. Running a game is like running a buisness, wait, jason is running a buisness.

Glassius wrote:

I was succesful in OHOL only when I neglected communication, when everybody knew what to do and did not talk, like in sweat shop. Jason even aims in making it more sweat shop to give players challenge. There is less and less place for caring about others.

At which point ? Does he aim us to be robots because we are not playing for repeating tasks over and over. But obviously new meta offers less and less creativity and randomness, which was his aim too as he said... he will have to choose between random or repetition.

Turnipseed · 2018-04-26 22:36:05

Plus back then if you wanted to build something new just grab a basket of carrots as soon as you grow hair say peace and get 14 extra years as "eve"

Eve-rlastingGamer · 2018-04-26 23:03:56

breezeknight wrote:

palisade wrote:
breezeknight wrote:
what i also don't understand is that some of you complain that you're unable to do legacies
but what is the point of legacies if there are no family trees in the game ?
i don't think that the current state of the game is about legacies at all, it's more just about survival & learning to be more efficient, more is not there
building more of those monstroCities, that was not my fun, i get it that it was fun for many players but that called then for griefers & murderers & in effect for complaints as well
The premise of the game (look at the video at the bottom of onehouronelife.com: https://youtu.be/nu8d3iW2yxM) is that our lives our meaningless except what we leave behind for others, to build upon in the future. And, that we will never realize the full impact of all that we have wrought for those that come after us.
The game was sort of like that pre-decay update. Now it is just a sprint straight into the dust at our feet. An example of true meaninglessness, with nothing truly left behind or carried on into the future. No advancement, no progeny, leaving nothing of worth behind for them to carry onward, and no legacy.
There are some of us who aren't okay with that.
yes
& that's what i am experiencing now in the game, after the decay update
there are remnants of things other people made before i've got there
played exactly that way today two times as Eve arriving in a dead settlement, way better than the nothingness of the deadlands i usually spawn into
& i played also as baby several times in settlements, so again remains of the people before me & since i am trying to be cosntructive so i leave something for the people after me
pre decay it was plastered with monstroCities, so damn boring because every thing needed was there, nothing to do than spawn babies
& what it called for was murderers & griefers
i was once in such a town with another player who came running & telling me that someone griefed all the berry bushes, i realised quickly that it was he himself
he was very proud of himself at last doing something with this town, this was quite a boring thing
as Jason said
the game changes & the gameplay will change
as long Jason stays on board, everything will be ok, because he cares
i cannot say that much about many games i had hoped for that they will be improved
it hurts to see a good idea stay unfinished because the devs don't stay on board, so that's the most important part
& complaining is not the best way to motivate a dev to stay on board, positive feedback is probably better
i think many players had some other expectations about OHOL, which were never intended to be nurtured, but that's how it is with games in development
most games nowadays are this way, i played so many games meantime this way, Early Access, mobile, live service ... i learned to have fun as long it lasts & if i am not satisfied with the current situation then to take a break for at least half a year & then come back & see how the game is doing, this helps

- - -

I'm not against the decay, I'm against being unable to repair the decay. Why does a steel hoe break, so therefor we can no longer use it? Shouldn't we be able to pry the steel head from the tool and simply install it onto another handle? Isn't that what we do in the real world? I understand why the baskets will fall apart after thirty years of use, but does it honestly take sixty years for the reeds to grow?

There are things about the decay that make sense, but most of it doesn't. I believe the issue people are truly against is the inability to repair the decay. Regular maintenance could be applied in most of these cases. Wear and tear is impossible to avoid and the people who "whine" about this seem to understand that. What they want, what they are requesting multiple times over, is a way in which they can repair the damage. Or better alternatives to certain things (namely baskets) that would last a decade or two past their lives.

I myself was looking forward to the light roleplay of the game. When I was told that was no longer the case aside from "Ma" "Son" and "Daughter" (mainly so people don't have to search names all the time) I admit to being disappointed.

That all being said, I'd like to point out that Jason seems to be evolving the game further into the ages.

That might be why all the decay is happening.

Instead of adobe walls, he wants us to use stone.

Instead of carrots, he wants us to hunt for meat and make pies.

I'm sure we would all happily do this, too, if only there were time for it. The mass majority of players that I've encountered haven't even heard of the forums. Let alone read them. If they can't even be bothered to do that, then are any of us truly surprised when you find them running around in game doing nothing? Are you shocked to see they can't build fires? I'm not. I asked one if they've gone to wiki to look at recipes at least.

They thanked me for letting them know it existed.

Now I'm not saying newbies are ruining the game. Without them, we probably wouldn't even have a game any longer. Though it certainly doesn't make the game any easier, either. Most of the older players have abandoned the game. I don't care who wants what, that is also something that seriously stunted game play. It's also something that (hopefully) Jason takes notice of. Perhaps he can concede repairs (I hope he does).

(Also, to elaborate, I would love repairs. Not "put two broken baskets to make one" but "get a tool to remove the broken bits, then add a new reed with another tool. Also, I'd like it if he added options to make steel carts! Ooohh, and wooden/clay baskets! Maybe that will eventually happen. I can always hope. LoLoL)

EDIT: I just can't seem to spell 'tool' today.

Last edited by Eve-rlastingGamer (2018-04-26 23:05:14)

Lexyvil · 2018-04-27 00:50:17

Wow, is that discord chat from those pictures real? If so, I wish people were more considerate towards him and his hard work. This game is evolving, and it can't evolve without changes and balancing done. It's normal to adapt to every change.

Last edited by Lexyvil (2018-04-27 04:39:51)

Xuhybrid · 2018-04-27 00:52:41

If you can't form a reasonable opinion about something in 9 hours, you're a moron. Honestly after reading that Discord conversation, he is completely out of touch. We're supposed to play a game we don't want to play, just because he refuses to acknowledge criticism? What a failure this game is gonna be.

Uncle Gus · 2018-04-27 00:58:42

Lexyvil wrote:

Wow, is that discord chat from those pictures real? If so, I wish people were more considerate towards him and his hard work. This game is evolving, and it can't evolve with changes and balancing done. It's normal to adapt to every change.

Also worth noting is that Jason identified in that message that an ax breaking on first use due to RNG would be a problem, and then proceeded to NOT implement RNG. So that "meme" is patently false.

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