All old content posted related to OHOL is now false advertisement

moonsetter · 2023-10-28 06:50:45

I don't know if I'm supposed to be mad at the playerbase, Jason, or both, but the total neutering of OHOL's combat has left it as a limp, sad little demo of the game it used to be. The curse system is a fucking joke, war swords are just useless pieces of garbage that do nothing but go back into the scrap bowl (not to mention the war/peace function itself, jesus christ), and the absolute PEAK of "griefing" is now just someone killing all the sheep in the pen. As if there isn't a wild mouflon 75 tiles away to just replace it. And that guy STILL gets his account ruined with curses.

I and a significant portion of the would-be playerbase for the game found it through content creators who presented the game as unpredictable, challenging, exciting. Maybe your family was in a war! Maybe there was a sneaky murderer hiding in town! Maybe your mom is evil and you have to fight for your life! You'd be lucky if you got anything remotely close to that now. I know it isn't up to Jason what people choose to post about his game, but you'd think that seeing what intrigues them would have given a hint as to what features maybe shouldn't have been stripped out. And I'm saying this as the most docile of players. I don't kill for fun, and I was quick to fight back against villains when they appeared, even if I failed. Back when knifing and shooting required aim, I was shit. I was NOT one to be slaughtering villages. But it was fun like it hasn't been in ages. I don't get how you can call this game One Hour One Life after you've sucked all of the life out of it.

It's been said before, but I'm saying it again: playing a villainous role in the game should have never been a cursable offense. Being a little shit provided thrill and variety and gave people a reason to keep playing. The players who took issue with that in the first place should have been the ones to find a different game to play. Everyone else would have had a great time living their lives, and maybe the world population wouldn't be struggling to hit 55. Instead, they whined and complained until Jason caved, and now look what we've got. New players find this game under false pretenses, learn that they've been tricked into playing it, and leave forever.

I've seen public opinion on this, and no I'm not just going to find another game. I love this game. At its peak it was incredible and it meant a lot to me; I told everyone about it that I could get to hear me. It's just a miserable shame that it's been brought to such a state. And to all of you who pushed for the current state of it, fuck you. I don't know what possessed Jason to listen to you, but his original vision would have beat the hell out of whatever THIS is.

Jason, if by some miracle you see this, please. I've said nothing up to this point hoping that you would just do something about it, seeing how bad it's gotten, but I realized that the veterans are painting the idea that infinite farming and speedrunning towns to endgame with no break in routine is what OHOL was meant for. It's been long enough. Just let us have the combat and drama back. I've made SO much goddamn compost, let me fight a war for once.

Anyway, I'll be back on for my 5 hour session tomorrow. (kill me)

SoloAceMouse · 2023-10-28 07:08:54

> playing a villainous role in the game should have never been a cursable offense

This statement is kind of absurd.

If you make other people not want to play with you then they curse you. Deciding what is a "cursable offense" is like trying to dictate how someone is allowed to react to your behavior. If I want to curse someone for whatever reason I want, I am perfectly free to do so. Just like my curse is my decision, your curse is your decision. I don't get to decide whether your choice to not play with me is valid or not.

If I'm rude to you, then feel free to curse me.
If I ruin the work you were doing, curse me.
If the town you invested time into with your friends is attacked by me trying to kill the fam, then curse me.

This idea that "Being a little shit provided thrill and variety and gave people a reason to keep playing" is utter horseradish. The consistent efforts by people engaging in a "villainous role" [often across multiple accounts] is a huge part of why the playerbase is so small. The number one complaint I see from people who quit playing is that they were just fed up with griefers whose sole contribution to the game seems to be trying to ruin other peoples' days.

People don't enjoy being the helpless victims of those who think terrorizing other people in a 2D family farming simulator is fun.

If you want to play Rust, then play Rust.

moonsetter · 2023-10-28 07:35:49

SoloAceMouse wrote:

If I'm rude to you, then feel free to curse me.
If I ruin the work you were doing, curse me.
If the town you invested time into with your friends is attacked by me trying to kill the fam, then curse me.

You don’t seem to understand the weight of what is essentially a 5 year account ban. There’s a certain moral barrier that personally stops me from cursing someone for at worst causing a problem that can be rectified in 10 minutes.

SoloAceMouse wrote:

The number one complaint I see from people who quit playing is that they were just fed up with griefers whose sole contribution to the game seems to be trying to ruin other peoples' days.

That’s one section of the player base. There’s another section who came for the thrill and were driven away by the disproportionate favor given to the section you’re referring to. The game was altered to THEIR benefit while the rest of us were forgotten.

SoloAceMouse wrote:

People don't enjoy being the helpless victims of those who think terrorizing other people in a 2D family farming simulator is fun.
If you want to play Rust, then play Rust.

YOU don’t enjoy being the helpless victim. I enjoyed fighting back. I couldn’t think of a stupider solution to both of our problems than nearly fully removing the combat and allowing players to ruin each other’s accounts over minor inconveniences.

CatX · 2023-10-28 08:49:38

I enjoy the current peace and do not miss the fighting.

I like being able to teach a new player about yum without our family being slaughtered around us.

Perhaps we could have two main servers where players don't spill over and where the rules are different.

But wars were usually just griefing as I remember them. One or two people would take it on themselves to destroy another town, and often their own family didn't even know. With the introduction of speciality biomes, wars made even less sense.

In the end it is up to Jason which part of the player base he wants to develop this game for. But there are plenty of war themed games out there, and only one (originally) where players get born to each other. In my opinion that is what differentiates the game from other games, and it should be the main feature to have in mind when concidering future changes.

jinbaili83 · 2023-10-28 09:10:05

To have actual combat you need to rewrite the game from ground up.
Nobody likes to play with backstabbing grifers that just respawn over and over in your family, that is why we have curses. But i think there is missed oportunity for some external conflict between peaceful farmers and raiders from DT.

Tarr · 2023-10-28 16:49:39

It is such a flavor fail for "a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building" to have random players in the family griefing the town. If there is to be conflict in game it should be family vs family conflict instead of basically playing among us style random family member is being a shit.

This however cannot exist in game because when Jason added racial specialty all the families are needed (minus white) for the game to function. Even then if there was a reason to fight with other families A). You can curse other families as a defense against this, B). The current combat system is completely neutered by mechanics, C). The playerbase does not want the game to be PvP focused in the first place.

For A): When swords were at their peaks you couldn't curse people in different families. This led to people forcing Eve spawns and basically throwing their bodies into the towns killing as many people as they could. This was obviously awful to deal with as one person very easily could kill 10+ people solo. While this was better on theme (family vs family conflict) it was incredibly frustrating. People literally had to fence their towns which then could be blocked from outside, people had to constantly give access, and it made the game feel terrible. The only way something like this to work would be to force people to be stuck in one family until the whole family died which goes against both the people wanting random lives and the people wanting specific races.

For B). Jason wants the game to be where if you want someone dead they die. He removed the ability for combat to have any semblance of skill and now it's just a numbers game. Families cannot even fight unless there's more of one family than the other. You can still attack people with a bloody weapon but this makes the dumbest game of tag in a "war." This just leads to families doing weird shit to each other like killing animals or breaking/blocking stuff which is dumb as well.

For C). It is not fun or engaging gameplay to be stuck dealing with what are essentially people purposely fucking up the collectives work. When someone was blocking wells with chests I didn't get some cool story of how we fought back and did anything. It was an hour of someone on a horse and breaking things, stealing, and ruining the game for 10+ other people. Either some idiot gave the troll leadership or gene score made him leader so no one could stab them (due to posse) because getting a bunch of people to unfollow and refollow someone else. While in the past it could be fun to deal with trolls it is not fun to constantly deal with them.

The 5 year curse thing came into effect due to steam essentially selling trolls extra accounts for like 1 dollar. Basically it made the cursing system completely useless as once your account was in donkey town you spent a dollar to begin trolling again. With the 3 month curses they then could cycle back to accounts once the curses expired. Now curses last 5 years to effectively ban people who are constantly trolling the game or doing dumb stuff.

Arcurus · 2023-10-28 16:51:43

jinbaili83 wrote:

To have actual combat you need to rewrite the game from ground up.

I happen to know one who just did that, ok only for now from the server side.

I loved that in the old times the game offered more different stories.
But i also see that there are mainly two different playstyles.
Other games solve that through providing a separate server where pvp is allowed.

Jason has plenty of empty servers out there so money wiese it would be not a problem to offer a combat allowed server.
There could be an option if you want to play more peaceful or more pvp.

I think original Jason said something like: He loved that people could in theory use a knife and stab each other, but practically most of the time they decide to not do so.

Of course since then lot of stuff happened.

To offer the community a server without much artificial mechanics that limit stuff, i created a custom server called Open Life Reborn.

If you want try it out, currently any vanilla OHOL client will do, just enter openlifereborn.com for server IP.

You can find here more information if you want.
http://openlifereborn.com/

The hole server is fully written new and in BETA, so expect some bugs along the way.

Ideally i would love if players play there role play like. That means you can play some villains but you should also respect other players and not just play to grief them.

There are currently around 50 NPC (which could be scaled up to 150 with some optimizations). That defend their (and players) villages. You can hire them with coins.

Combat is by default allowed. Its a mix between the old and the new combat system. In short the closer you manage to guess the right position one is the more damage you make. So its difficult to totally avoid damage but still with some skill you can do something. Also a lot of other stuff is considered like if you love the biome, if you have armor (cloths) and tons and tons of other stuff. Your max food pipes are basically your hids points, so at best go into combat at a good age and eat heathy to have more health / max food pipes.

Also NPCs will get quite angry at you if you randomly attack their village and take their coins.

There is also a new prestige based score which has big influence on if you are born low born, as a commoner or as a noble. Also of course NPCs will follow by default people with higher prestige.
Prestige you get mainly from you, your relatives and your followers (also follower of followers and so on) eating YUM.
So you have quite some incentives to take care of your fellow allies.

There is also a way to become fully a minion, with some combat boni, but the hole server will start to hunt you down...

There is a new property / siege based system. For example locks are account based, but you can picklock them.
Walls and doors you can fortify, so the more effort you put in the harder it gets to put them down.

And of course there is no artificial stuff like family iron or biome locks. There are some biome and temperature boni but no locks. And yes all colors can come from one Eve, since born kids have a higher chance to be from the color of a close biome.

YUM and craving system is fully reworked. In short the server auto balances depending how much of a given food is eaten. So really every food is great to have.

NPCs will feed you also stuff based on your YUM and cravings, of course they feed commoners and nobles more likely than low born.

Also the curse system is reworked and is now grave based. So if you really want to protect a certain area you can place the bones there and this player will have disadvantages if getting close. And of course you see him as cursed.
But its not a easy curse, you need first to hunt this player down and get his bones.

There are also tons and tons of other changes feel free to read the full manual.

And yes the hole world is much more alive, like everything decays and comes back with time, but stuff in houses is for now quite save from decay. Wolfs and so on will multiply. Bears start searching for food in spring...
Snakes, oh we currently have a "little" snake problem in the center desert village, so some help to get rid of them would be nice. Or just play black and you are save from them in the desert (if you dont anger them).

There are also different season, with wild stuff growing back in spring. But be aware of the winter without cloths and fire i guess you wont survive long. If its too hot you can drink some water to cool down.

And yes i would not shoot on a herd of bison's if you have only few arrows...

To come back to Jasons vision: Ideally i would love if Open Life Reborn becomes a world where players can use a knife to stab each other, but out of free will they decide at least most of the time not to do so.

The hole world should be about creating exiting stories together!

Have fun,
Arcurus

Last edited by Arcurus (2023-10-28 17:08:04)

Arcurus · 2023-10-28 17:52:30

Tarr wrote:

It is such a flavor fail for "a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building" to have random players in the family griefing the town. If there is to be conflict in game it should be family vs family conflict instead of basically playing among us style random family member is being a shit.

Fully agree, conflict should mainly come from outside the family. I think for that the curse system would be good enough.
Just limit it to protect your family (also some days after you are off) and limit that Eves can do combat.

Tarr wrote:

This however cannot exist in game because when Jason added racial specialty all the families are needed (minus white) for the game to function. Even then if there was a reason to fight with other families A). You can curse other families as a defense against this, B). The current combat system is completely neutered by mechanics, C). The playerbase does not want the game to be PvP focused in the first place.

Yea currently there is no reason for attacks. Except maybe getting iron stuff but even this is plenty. In a separate combat allowed sever for sure family restrictions should be limited. The resources could be also much more rare but no artificial family iron. A) Curses should only affect own family members they should be a defense against insiders not outsiders with Eve combat nerved.
B) For sure combat needs a rework. Something between the first fully skilled based system and the auto hit = death system C) Yes current playerbase does not love PvP so why bother them with it. Nearly all who loved it are gone. So a PvP allowed server should be a setting in the client. Maybe an option instead of donkey town too.

Tarr wrote:

For A): When swords were at their peaks you couldn't curse people in different families. This led to people forcing Eve spawns and basically throwing their bodies into the towns killing as many people as they could. This was obviously awful to deal with as one person very easily could kill 10+ people solo. While this was better on theme (family vs family conflict) it was incredibly frustrating. People literally had to fence their towns which then could be blocked from outside, people had to constantly give access, and it made the game feel terrible. The only way something like this to work would be to force people to be stuck in one family until the whole family died which goes against both the people wanting random lives and the people wanting specific races.

I think if curses would protect families for a longer time it would be quite ok. Attackers would need to come from outside. And people who dont participate much in attacks still can be random born in families since they are no where cursed.
For protection, i think ally gates could do a good job since you only need to exile one to stop access but it might be too easy to block entrances.

Tarr wrote:

For B). Jason wants the game to be where if you want someone dead they die. He removed the ability for combat to have any semblance of skill and now it's just a numbers game. Families cannot even fight unless there's more of one family than the other. You can still attack people with a bloody weapon but this makes the dumbest game of tag in a "war." This just leads to families doing weird shit to each other like killing animals or breaking/blocking stuff which is dumb as well.

For sure combat would need to be fixed. In a custom server i tried out a system where you can attack anybody but need to wait 5 secs if the other person is not yet engaged in the combat. Also the combat strength is influenced by your score and score is mainly how good your fellow people do. So if you constantly harm them you will have low score and therefore low combat strength. Also you will be low born and NPCs wont follow much your orders. Also tried out some NPCs which help to defend the village, they can all do what a normal player can do but are a little bit nerved so that they arnt too strong. Of course there are also elite NPCs out there too hire which are quite a challenge but cost lot to hire.

Yea simple breaking stuff is lame and really should lead to a bann for some time. But i think if in general combat is allowed people would not try that hard to make combat in other ways.

Tarr wrote:

For C). It is not fun or engaging gameplay to be stuck dealing with what are essentially people purposely fucking up the collectives work. When someone was blocking wells with chests I didn't get some cool story of how we fought back and did anything. It was an hour of someone on a horse and breaking things, stealing, and ruining the game for 10+ other people. Either some idiot gave the troll leadership or gene score made him leader so no one could stab them (due to posse) because getting a bunch of people to unfollow and refollow someone else. While in the past it could be fun to deal with trolls it is not fun to constantly deal with them.

Thats true. Gameplay should not be to just destroy the work and game of others. Pure trolls should be banned. But many be with combat allowed but nerfed for high cursed players it will be easy to get rid of them.

Tarr wrote:

The 5 year curse thing came into effect due to steam essentially selling trolls extra accounts for like 1 dollar. Basically it made the cursing system completely useless as once your account was in donkey town you spent a dollar to begin trolling again. With the 3 month curses they then could cycle back to accounts once the curses expired. Now curses last 5 years to effectively ban people who are constantly trolling the game or doing dumb stuff.

I think if combat would be more allowed but plentiful cursed players would be nerfed in combat it would be easy to deal with these trolls. If a troll can be easy killed i guess they will learn how to behave sooner or later.

In short: I think current player base mainly does not want pvp so i guess main server would not go into this direction anymore (you never know with Jason).

So there are mainly these options:
A) Try out a custom server like Open Life Reborn.
B) Ask Jason nicely if one of the empty servers could be a combat allowed server and give an option for all (also new players to choose what playstyle they like
C) Make a Saturia event that allows for some time for example on saturdays combat mechanics on sever.

A and B is very much depended on having enough players to make fun. For sure making players to choose could help to get enough people for a critical mass. I tink this could also help peaceful players, since they can do what they love. I think generally this would increase player base, also the peaceful onces.
C) Would be nice for having some new experiences and experiment with mechanics

Last edited by Arcurus (2023-10-28 18:08:25)

moonsetter · 2023-10-28 18:32:23

Giving players the option to choose would fix it! All of the vets could keep to the peaceful server and build whatever giant civs they wanted. Honestly, it'd probably fix another issue I saw someone here talking about, where early game has been ruined by the playerbase being too experienced (and tech looting). New players could finally experience early game as it was meant to be played.

(now if only we had the numbers to do this without both servers becoming wastelands)

SoloAceMouse · 2023-10-28 18:52:34

moonsetter wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the weight of what is essentially a 5 year account ban. There’s a certain moral barrier that personally stops me from cursing someone for at worst causing a problem that can be rectified in 10 minutes.

Don't like the consequences; don't be an asshole. It's not a five year ban, it's five years where the person you pissed off doesn't have to deal with you. If this is problematic, then you're playing the wrong game.

moonsetter wrote:

That’s one section of the player base. There’s another section who came for the thrill and were driven away by the disproportionate favor given to the section you’re referring to. The game was altered to THEIR benefit while the rest of us were forgotten.

Yeah, well the thing is that a game about "parenting and civilization building" is gonna be focused on parenting and civilization building. It's just the nature of a game with that type of description.

And, for the record, this was the right call. Trying to cater to both "parenting and civilization building" players as well as "little shits" (to borrow a term you've used) was foolish to begin with. The OHOL we have and the OHOL you want are mutually exclusive, and there are already thousands of games with extensive player vs player conflict without having to enshittify this game as well.

moonsetter wrote:

YOU don’t enjoy being the helpless victim. I enjoyed fighting back. I couldn’t think of a stupider solution to both of our problems than nearly fully removing the combat and allowing players to ruin each other’s accounts over minor inconveniences.

I'm not a helpless victim. I curse people who fuck with me. Similarly, on social media when I see a needlessly aggressive or confrontational person, I block them because after years online I consider such people a waste of time interacting with.

There are no rules in OHOL except for one; don't piss people off. If you can't follow that rule, you get slapped with some curses.

-----

In short: every time I see someone whine about cursing, it puts a smile on my face because I know that means the system works as intended.

Last edited by SoloAceMouse (2023-10-28 18:57:43)

squishysquid · 2023-10-28 19:15:04

flipping pvp on for donkey town would be funny.

Tarr · 2023-10-28 19:18:28

I mean it's already kind of on for them because it's normally like 1-2 people in donkey town lol. You just /unfollow and you've got the crappy posse mode pvp where first growl wins.

parker · 2023-11-11 03:09:41

i 100% agree

Sovietico21 · 2023-11-11 04:35:05

The game start dying with donkey town update, split the server between pvp and not pvp, then let people decided, if i can play the game as it use to be, then i may give it another shot.

SoloAceMouse · 2023-11-11 05:05:24

PVP is easy content and the player types it attracts are pretty boring compared to the unique community of modern OHOL.

When people make posts about how lack of PVP means they can't have fun, I just see a player who lacks capability or imagination.

There's a million PVP games, and they're almost all better at it than OHOL. If you can't enjoy a game about "parenting and civilization building" without needing to stab someone, that's just a skill issue.

parker · 2023-11-12 01:55:44

SoloAceMouse wrote:

PVP is easy content and the player types it attracts are pretty boring compared to the unique community of modern OHOL.
When people make posts about how lack of PVP means they can't have fun, I just see a player who lacks capability or imagination.
There's a million PVP games, and they're almost all better at it than OHOL. If you can't enjoy a game about "parenting and civilization building" without needing to stab someone, that's just a skill issue.

to me this post boils down to how predictable the game has become. back when the game was as OP described it, you never knew what you were gonna do when you hopped on to play a life. will i get to be an artisan? will i need to work to feed my family? will we be in such a good place i can spend my time writing or doing some other roleplay? will there be some grave threat i'll have to try to deal with? to me that unpredictability helped build the fantasy of a "realistic" civilization. i truly felt like each life presented a unique and different challenge. you used to play the role of a single link in the chain, doing whatever was necessary to ensure the next link gets added. nowadays i know i could just hop on and do whatever id like infinitely continuing the chain because i'll just spawn in the same mega town with 14 trucks and limitless resources over and over.

i never once griefed. i was never once cursed. to make this generalization that anyone who longs for a less restricted gameplay experience is some kind of hateful ultra menace is downright weird. you talk about blocking those who are needlessly confrontational but all your responses in this thread are "you are a boring idiot asshole because you do not play the game the way i think it should be played"

Arcurus · 2023-11-12 23:21:33

parker wrote:

to me this post boils down to how predictable the game has become. back when the game was as OP described it, you never knew what you were gonna do when you hopped on to play a life. will i get to be an artisan? will i need to work to feed my family? will we be in such a good place i can spend my time writing or doing some other roleplay? will there be some grave threat i'll have to try to deal with? to me that unpredictability helped build the fantasy of a "realistic" civilization. i truly felt like each life presented a unique and different challenge. you used to play the role of a single link in the chain, doing whatever was necessary to ensure the next link gets added. nowadays i know i could just hop on and do whatever id like infinitely continuing the chain because i'll just spawn in the same mega town with 14 trucks and limitless resources over and over.
i never once griefed. i was never once cursed. to make this generalization that anyone who longs for a less restricted gameplay experience is some kind of hateful ultra menace is downright weird. you talk about blocking those who are needlessly confrontational but all your responses in this thread are "you are a boring idiot asshole because you do not play the game the way i think it should be played"

Lol yea, loved the times when the game was more chaotic. Like newborn apocalypse happing like the same time trying to escape 3 bears and a 30 plus player town one pipe away from starving trying to use all food possibilities.

Spoonwood · 2024-01-07 08:47:13

I don't recall any advertisements by Jason about OHOL being some sort of killing game. I don't recall anything about killing in the trailer, about daughters killing their mother (which I remember experiencing twice at least, once in a context where I was Eve chaining), mothers killing their daughters, aunts killing their nephews, or cousins killing their cousins. I don't recall him saying any words about the game being violent also necessarily in any advertisements. People like WBSteve who posted a video on war in OHOL was not making an advertisement. He showed the game *as he played it*, and told a story. He didn't say that the game was designed to be specifically played that way, nor that it would continue that way in the future.

The old killing mechanics had more issues also. That new player? He picks up a knife and all of a sudden stabs someone. But why did he do it? Was there an in-game reason to kill like that? Nope! It was often a "WANT TO KILL" sort of thing. Someone didn't like that someone else used a board to make a bucket instead of for their wood flooring (which was just decoration)? Stabby, stabby, without any hope of peaceful discussion. Killing would sometimes happen for the most pettiest of things or because someone had a temper issue, as Pein suggested he did. Would you stab your aunt, your cousin, mother, or uncle because she or he spoke rudely to you? Well, I certainly hope you wouldn't.

Those killings also, as Tarr suggests, were not about survival. They were not about parenting. They were not about civilization building. Those who killed also often didn't have the consent of their victims. It was victimizing people, not some sort of battle.

So, no, I don't know of any false advertisements on this issue. The old systems were bad. And if you still think otherwise, go read a book, learn to think for a change, and grow enough of a spine that you could be wrong on something.

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