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#26 2020-11-27 22:52:04

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,120

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk played as Mona Peaches, as one can learn by reading the discord.  There exist several users who say this first and likely use leader board information.  NoTruePunk said himself:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I think I was mona
milkman lives
idk what the hell was wrong with my children

Mona Peaches starved 5 children: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6775626

NoTruePunk says:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Our biggest enemy in this game is the eve spawn pushing us further out ...

But, he helped to starve out a lineage, and thus contributed to producing another Eve spawn.

Okay.   But I don't understand what that has to do with this discussion.   

Are you suggesting that NoTruePunk secretly desires to spread out Eve spawns even further and his efforts to build a giant road to connect distant towns is actually a clever ruse to throw off suspicion from his true motivations?

I'm perplexed.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-11-27 22:54:24)

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#27 2020-11-27 23:44:55

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,779

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

DestinyCall wrote:

Are you suggesting that NoTruePunk secretly desires to spread out Eve spawns even further and his efforts to build a giant road to connect distant towns is actually a clever ruse to throw off suspicion from his true motivations?

NoTruePunk complains about families not surviving through "the night" here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p?id=10291 and then gets involved in killing off a family in the same time period a few days later.  He's worried about Eve spawns spreading things out, and then contributes to another Eve spawn happening.  I don't trust him.  I think anyone reading this should consider if they think he's trustworthy.

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#28 2020-11-28 00:10:32

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,779

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

DestinyCall wrote:

Eve camps don't need rubber.   Eve camps don't need oil.  But there comes a point where an older village does need those things.   That is the point when the road serves a vital purpose, by speeding up travel between distant families.   There are other ways to achieve the same objective, but that does not negate the importance of a long road.

So to get clear, we were talking about a paved road, not a flat rock road.  Destiny, have you forgotten how an engine gets made?  Have you looked into what is needed for oil?  It's necessary to have rubber to make a newcomen atmospheric core to make a newcomen multipurpose engine to make pipes for to drill for oil.  A paver involves an engine.  According to Merriam Webster's vital means of the utmost importance:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vital

A paved road thus can't be vital for a family to obtain those resources, since no family would have been able to make a paver without getting specialty resources in the first place, or having relevant objects from those specialty resources.

Also, an east-west road running through the center mountain band area of the map won't tell you a direction to go if the road gets built for exchange purposes.  For exchange purposes, it would be better to build roads towards areas with expert waystones.  They don't have to go into areas with waystones, just near them.  Travel wise, it's faster to travel along diagonal roads than roads going up and then turning left or right.  So, old style flat rock roads can work out faster for trading purposes, since they can get built diagonally with ease.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-11-28 00:45:47)

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#29 2020-11-28 00:24:09

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,120

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Is it possible that NoTruePunk was working on extending the road when those babies starved?   

As a road-builder myself, I have experienced problems with juggling motherhood and road-construction.   Since it involves traveling far away from the village and easy food options, it can be difficult or impossible to keep all children alive.

Without knowing more about the situation faced by Mona Peaches, I can't say if the line ending was intentional or simply a bad mix of personal choice, misadventure and adverse circumstances.   

I am sure I have been unknowingly responsible for the death of a family or two over the years, because I decided to go on a big adventure instead of staying near the fire to pump out kids.   Doesn't mean I hate babies or wanted the family to die.   I just don't always pay attention to village demographics and how many other girls are around before I run into the woods, half-naked.  I am a free spirit.  It is my way.

Also, looking over that family line, technically, Mona did manage to produce one daughter that made it to 18 years old.   So she did not completely fail at mothering, even if she didn't become a grandmother.  And although the family line ended, the last generation of Peaches was actually birthed by Mang Peaches, a distant cousin of Mona.   She produced three babies and none lived past infancy.

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#30 2020-11-28 00:52:34

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,120

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:

So to get clear, we were talking about a paved road, not a flat rock road.  Destiny, have you forgotten how an engine gets made?  Have you looked into what is needed for oil?  It's necessary to have rubber to make a newcomen atmospheric core to make a newcomen multipurpose engine to make pipes for to drill for oil.  A paver involves an engine.  According to Merriam Webster's vital means of the utmost importance:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vital

A paved road thus can't be vital for a family to obtain those resources, since no family would have been able to make a paver without getting specialty resources in the first place, or having relevant objects from those specialty resources.

Also, an east-west road running through the center mountain band area of the map won't tell you a direction to go if the road gets built for exchange purposes.  For exchange purposes, it would be better to build roads towards areas with expert waystones.  They don't have to go into areas with waystones, just near them.  Travel wise, it's faster to travel along diagonal roads than roads going up and then turning left or right.  So, old style flat stone roads can work out faster for trading purposes, since they can get built diagonally with ease.

I am aware that we are talking about a paved road, but I am confused why that matters.   The Road is for everyone.   It exists and extends further and further west, as long as we continue to build it.   Even if I come from a village without rubber and oil, I can help to build the Road, because we already started the Road and we keep on extending it.   You can join the road crew, even if you are from an Eve camp, because clearing the path ahead of the paver is most of the work involved in extending an existing paved road.

Personally, I enjoy the rhythm of building a flat stone road and I prefer them for short paths or for connecting individual villages to a main road, but building flat stone roads is very time intensive.   It takes multiple lives to complete even a few hundred feet to connect two nearby villages.   I have had the problem of spending all day connecting two towns, only for one of the villages to die out before the road was done. 

Very disappointing.  :-(

For longer stretches and especially for building a road that stretches into infinity, the paver makes a lot more sense.

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#31 2020-11-28 01:57:19

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,779

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

DestinyCall wrote:

Is it possible that NoTruePunk was working on extending the road when those babies starved?

Yes. 

But, he didn't feed five children enough who die before the age of three.  Their final letter in all cases is 'F'.  That sure looks like an issue with the mother not feeding children.  NoTruePunk makes a comment on November 11th in the update notes here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p?id=10234 which suggests to me that he knows at least something about how the fertility system works.  He's made comments elsewhere indicative of such if I recall correctly.  So, there exists evidence that he knows he wouldn't be fertile outside of his band.  The paved road is approximately 7 tiles away from the mountain-tan border where a white no longer will be fertile.  Maybe I should say approximately 6 tiles instead.  One doesn't have to run inside of the mountain band area the entire time to travel to the next tree, big hard rock, or whatever needs removed.  Skewers and stakes come as needed to jag a paved road around something like a bear cave sometimes, and those can get found in many grasslands, so no need for a white to stay in a mountain biome.  Additionally, one could build roads outside of one's home band before 40 as a woman and then build inside of it at 40.  If one builds roads to waystones as white for all specialty biomes, most of those roads can end up outside of one's band.

Even if one suspects a lineage might die out by not having children, and one is the last woman in a village, is the choice to not have any children at all by leaving one's biome band griefing, since men can't have children, and also many females players for one reason or another, just don't have children?  Is the choice to not have children ever griefing since children of men mode exists?  Why would having children be a responsibility at one point in time and not a responsibility at another point in time?

I'm guessing someone else feels a bit flabbergasted with your response, and even more so now with more facts in mind, and maybe even the above questions about the status of the choice to not having children.   I'll say that for building roads to waystones, those roads can go north, south, and diagonally.  If juggling children is a difficulty when road building, wouldn't it work out as best to consider not having children at all or rarely stand inside of one's home biome band at least?  I mean, even if not having children in such a way ends a lineage, it doesn't seem as harsh on children saying 'F' and them starving before age 3, because one didn't or couldn't, I suppose, feed them.

Yes, you have a point about Mang Peaches.  The person there keeps getting talked about as a destructive actor.

Edit: Road building can be more efficient, of course, with a horsecart or truck than a cart.  I think one can pick up a cart at 13.  It's 16 to use a truck, right?  If using a truck, one might need some time inside of one's home band.  But, unless one has quads at 14, and Punk doesn't seem to have had quads, one still has the power to control fertility in the sense of saying 'no' to children by getting outside of one's home band and staying outside of it fairly soon after being able to drive a truck.  So, I think the point about fertility control holds up with respect to road building holds up for the most part.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-11-28 03:15:00)

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#32 2020-11-28 03:44:31

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,779

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

DestinyCall wrote:

I am aware that we are talking about a paved road, but I am confused why that matters.

It matters with respect to whether or not a paved road is vital for resource transfers (trading, stealing, or gifting), between villages.  It simply can't be vital with respect to resource transfers, because resource transfer between villages had to have happened to make the paved road in the first place, since it requires rubber (and thus sulfur, latex, and palm oil were needed) to make an engine for a paver, and kerosene to use.

DestinyCall wrote:

Personally, I enjoy the rhythm of building a flat stone road and I prefer them for short paths or for connecting individual villages to a main road, but building flat stone roads is very time intensive.

Using a cart, yes.  Using a rubber tire cart not as much.  Using a rubber tire horsecart not as much.  Using a truck even less.  People sometimes build roads to mines along their ley line.  Bands are 200 tiles tall.  It might be interesting to see if one can build a flat stone road connecting a village to one expert waystone not in their specialty biome, or if playing as female connecting two areas near expert waystones in one's next life.

Edit: Maybe not.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-11-28 04:03:23)

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#33 2020-11-28 07:57:42

NoTruePunk
Member
Registered: 2019-01-25
Posts: 306

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk played as Mona Peaches, as one can learn by reading the discord.  There exist several users who say this first and likely use leader board information.  NoTruePunk said himself:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I think I was mona
milkman lives
idk what the hell was wrong with my children

Mona Peaches starved 5 children: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6775626

NoTruePunk says:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Our biggest enemy in this game is the eve spawn pushing us further out ...

But, he helped to starve out a lineage, and thus contributed to producing another Eve spawn.

I had a girl and a boy and considered that enough, as I was out on the road. When you have babies away from villages there's a good chance it's a griefer since there's no one around with active curses. I sent them off and didn't think anything of it since our family was doing fine.

Turned out milkman was my cousin and the only other girl. Don't blame a griefers actions on me. Our family should have been fine, there was no way I could have known milkman was in the village.

Last edited by NoTruePunk (2020-11-28 08:21:26)

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#34 2020-11-28 08:35:09

NoTruePunk
Member
Registered: 2019-01-25
Posts: 306

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:

I am aware that we are talking about a paved road, but I am confused why that matters.

It matters with respect to whether or not a paved road is vital for resource transfers (trading, stealing, or gifting), between villages.  It simply can't be vital with respect to resource transfers, because resource transfer between villages had to have happened to make the paved road in the first place, since it requires rubber (and thus sulfur, latex, and palm oil were needed) to make an engine for a paver, and kerosene to use.

It's vital for effective resource transfer. Yes technically you could carry an engine or bucket of latex from one village to the next by hand, but driving it across the road is much faster. Investing a little labor into the road multiplies the efficiency of everyone else.

Also, earlier you were talking about the north/south travel distance not being helped by the road, which is true but it accounts for a much smaller portion of the distance traveled by most. The eve spawn is mostly linear.

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#35 2020-11-28 09:44:14

Eve Troll
Member
Registered: 2020-07-07
Posts: 224

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Yea honestly if you're not prepping for the path of the road the paver is a waste. Its probably the most expensive thing in the game. It costs the equivalent of 35 buckets of water to run each time. So unless you clear for several kilometers ahead of running it its probably going to waste resources. Plus the amount of time you would need to clear for it wouldnt likely be made up with the 50% bonus speed. Plus towns and fams have been moving insanely fast. Seen them move 1-3k a day. So unless you are paving 10k sections every few days you are likely wasting vital resources and aiding in the death of towns and fams just to have to road lost in a day or two.

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#36 2020-11-28 15:29:51

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,120

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Does it really matter that the paver costs a couple jugs of oil if it helps dozens of people rediscover lost towns filled with resources?   Think of all the jugs of oil and water that are left behind every time a town dies out.   All of it just sitting around, gathering dust.

The Road acts as a valuable landmark.    You can use it to identify where you are in relationship to past towns, so you can get back to them more easily.   Compared with wandering around in a truck in the wilderness, it is much more efficient.

You should definitely clear the path well before starting the paver to minimize downtime and keep costs down, but I am sure that the Road pays for itself as long as enough people work on it to keep pace with westward expansion.   

It just sucks that we are catapulting westward at such an absurd rate.

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#37 2020-11-28 17:40:14

Eve Troll
Member
Registered: 2020-07-07
Posts: 224

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Old towns are pretty easy to find. Just follow the band east of whatever type of town your looking for and look for dry well markers. In my experience old ginger towns get cleared out of their oil and trucks almost instantly. Not hard to find and there is a pretty large population of folks moving things from dead towns west without roads. Roads would only speed up that process a tiny bit. The issue is distance. Traveling long distances to get things from dead towns takes a while, so you would need a long road. Two tanks of oil is 70 buckets of water or 70(technically 82) iron ingots. Pretty large cost for a landmark and something you cant transfer to new civs. Like i mentioned. If you prepped for like a 5-10k road and only used one tank then it would be pretty valuable, but anything under 1k is a pretty big waste.

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#38 2020-11-28 19:28:25

NoTruePunk
Member
Registered: 2019-01-25
Posts: 306

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

It doesn't take two tanks, it takes one tank of crude and 1/24th of a kero dose.

Recuperating lost resources from dead towns isn't the only benefit. Mainly it would be used to extend the range of an arctic fam's oil drilling operations, assuming they're otherwise stable. Like I said before it multiplies the efficency of everyone that uses it. Trade, oil drilling, dead town spoils, all of it.

The initial cost doesn't matter, as It's infinite. Main issue is the occasional griefer taking the long walk out to turn it off, or, much more frequently I think, a curious noob that wants to see where the road leads and tries to pick it up by hand. I think the shutoff recipe needs to be changed to a shift+click or at least use some sort of tool. Mallet? Rubber stopper? Just something that makes It's shut off intentional.

Last edited by NoTruePunk (2020-11-28 19:29:57)

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