Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

OneOfMany · 2020-10-22 00:28:00

Please switch the sprites of the language family to the desert family. Put the "White" family in the desert with glass and the "Black" family in the wilds with only language. It'll be equally prejudiced, but in the opposite direction.

Spoonwood, I do apologize. I very much like your combative thinking and quite frankly more people need to speak out about racism and xenophobia. Although, sometimes I do feel you are grasping at straws or looking at something in a distorted way. Or maybe I just need to be more informed, but I can still respect your viewpoint and I would ask you, would making this simple change make an impact for you in the game?

Spoonwood wrote:

What?!?

If, I stepped over the line with this post, let me know.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-22 00:59:08

OneOfMany wrote:

Or maybe I just need to be more informed, but I can still respect your viewpoint and I would ask you, would making this simple change make an impact for you in the game?

You said this above:

OneOfMany wrote:

It'll be equally prejudiced, but in the opposite direction.

So, how would that change make things better? Racism is racism, which race has superior status matters less than that some race gets treated as having superior status.

Also, I'm not a fan of you, OneOfMany, quoting me on something that I didn't say. OneOfMany made this post quoting me, in the very first post of this thread, so clearly I didn't say what has gotten attributed to me in this context. Putting words in other people's mouth like that is not nice.

DestinyCall · 2020-10-22 01:10:51

I though this would be an appeal for Jason to add fathers.

Why would this change silence Spoonwood? He has only made a handful of threads about racism in OHOL.

NoTruePunk · 2020-10-22 01:12:42

This is stupid

OneOfMany · 2020-10-22 01:21:04

Spoonwood wrote:

So, how would that change make things better? Racism is racism, which race has superior status matters less than that some race gets treated as having superior status.

That's exactly my point. Racism is racism. Who you believe has better stats, as a race (sprites inspired by Jason) is in essence racist. If you think the white people are being given preferential treatment, in game, would it not solve the problem if their sprites were changed in the game. It wouldn't end racism in the world... but would it end it in the game? I am interested in your opinion.

Spoonwood wrote:

Also, I'm not a fan of you, OneOfMany, quoting me on something that I didn't say. OneOfMany made this post quoting me, in the very first post of this thread, so clearly I didn't say what has gotten attributed to me in this context. Putting words in other people's mouth like that is not nice.

That's exactly why I did it. In the first post. That's actually why I asked if I stepped over the line. This quoting thing is an exploit in the forum, that's what I wanted to point out. I want people to understand the exploit, so they can identify it, if used.

Again, I apologize for this Spoonwood, while you may not consider me a friend, you are mine.

Last edited by OneOfMany (2020-10-22 01:45:02)

NoTruePunk · 2020-10-22 01:34:37

Reverse racism isn't real

DestinyCall · 2020-10-22 01:47:26

Switching around the skin tones will not fix the problem because the real issue with "family specializations" runs deeper than that.

But I am pretty sure you already know that, OneOfMany.

OneOfMany · 2020-10-22 02:04:22

DestinyCall wrote:

But I am pretty sure you already know that, OneOfMany.

You can call me One. (if you're being nice)

There are issues with family specialization and limited fertility, but a simple sprite shuffle, might help in-game racism, maybe not. Never know, unless you try.

Eve Troll · 2020-10-22 02:17:01

Anyone else having flashbacks to the "ban spoonwood" threads.

Those of you who dont have the ability deal with someone expressing strong opinions and need them to be removed to pad your fragile ego dont belong on these forums.

Get lost and stop wasting peoples' time with pointless threads that are essentially cyberbullying.

[Edit] in retrospect it seems your post is less offensive than i presumed initially. That being said its not a healthy practice to call out individuals, aside jason, in your thread title. Especially when joined with "shut up this person forever"

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-10-22 02:32:40)

Spoonwood · 2020-10-22 02:31:44

OneOfMany wrote:

It wouldn't end racism in the world... but would it end it in the game? I am interested in your opinion.

No, it would not end it in the game.

OneOfMany wrote:

That's exactly why I did it.

Alright, so it sounds like you admit you're deliberately trying to antagonize me.

OneOfMany wrote:

That's actually why I asked if I stepped over the line.

Yes, you stepped over the line. Friends don't deliberately antagonize each other in my book. Not like this. Not in a serious manner. I may as well say so, but I reported you. It's simply not o. k. to deliberately misquote someone in a serious manner. It's not honest.

Eve Troll wrote:

Anyone else having flashbacks to the "ban spoonwood" threads.

I felt that way getting misquoted here. I guess it was much more obvious than whatever his name was who misquoted me repeatedly a while back did, but still.

Eve Troll wrote:

Those of you who dont have the ability deal with someone expressing strong opinions and need them to be removed to pad your fragile ego dont belong on these forums.
Get lost and stop wasting peoples' time with pointless threads that are essentially cyberbullying.

*laughs* Well, I am biased source on this one. But, I do agree and at least think I would agree if this happened to someone else. Thanks Eve Troll.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-10-22 02:33:57)

DestinyCall · 2020-10-22 07:02:21

OneOfMany wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
But I am pretty sure you already know that, OneOfMany.
You can call me One. (if you're being nice)
There are issues with family specialization and limited fertility, but a simple sprite shuffle, might help in-game racism, maybe not. Never know, unless you try.

I can't speak for Spoonwood, or anyone else, but a sprite shift would not change the problem of in-game racism for me. It is not about who has the best racial super powers. It is about the existence of the racial super powers themselves.

Maybe it would help to provide an example that doesn't involve race.

...

Imagine that Jason decided to make a new update. This update changes how people can interact with a few objects based on their gender.

Women can use adobe oven. Men cannot use adobe oven.
Men can drive race cars. Women cannot drive race cars.

These are the only changes. Everything else about OHOL stays the same.

Do you see any problems with this update? It seems a little sexist, don't you think? It reinforces real world gender roles and gender biases. It restricts your choices and what you can do with your life, based on the gender you were born with. Want to be a baker? Too bad, you were born male. Get out of the kitchen. Want to drive really, really fast? Too bad, you were born female. No fast cars for you. Go bake a pie.

Okay, so what if you swap the gender restrictions? Now you can drive a race car (if you are born female) and you can bake a pie (if you are born male), but does this really fix the problem with sexism introduced by this update? I don't think it does. The in-game gender roles might not mirror the real world as closely as before, but gameplay is still divided along gender lines in uncomfortable ways. Now imagine if these restrictions extended to more than just one object. If your gender determined if you could interact with ANY form of transportation. Or ANY form of food preparation. It would cut off big chunks of the game while forcing players to conform to arbitrary gender roles.

It would be stupid and annoying. Just like biome restrictions are right now.

...

Long story short, it doesn't matter if you think that whites are the best race or the worst race. Or if you swap around their abilities to make them appear weaker or stronger than the other races. The way that biome restrictions were implemented is inherently racist. Right now, a significant portion of your in-game value is determined by the color of your skin. Doesn't matter if that value is good or bad. Doesn't matter if the blacks are superior to the browns or if the gingers are inferior to the vanillas. It's still a racist system and it encourages racist gameplay, because you are rewarded for judging people based on their skin color.

It doesn't have to be "white supremacism" to be a bad thing. Prejudice is wrong, regardless of the primary target. This is not the kind of gameplay I want to see encouraged.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-10-22 07:05:19)

Dodge · 2020-10-22 08:18:29

He thinks this would "shut Spoonwood up, forever"

OneOfMany · 2020-10-22 10:04:54

DestinyCall wrote:

Imagine that Jason decided to make a new update. This update changes how people can interact with a few objects based on their gender.
Women can use adobe oven. Men cannot use adobe oven.
Men can drive race cars. Women cannot drive race cars.

Something like this is already in the game.

Female characters can have babies but male characters can not. Last I checked in the real world, it takes both. In the game however, sexual reproduction would be a very difficult game mechanic to work out. The same thing can be said about racial/biome restrictions. The biome restrictions are meant to cause trade between families. To make it easier for players to understand the biomes, they are locked to a family. It would be more of an interesting game mechanic if the Eve could pick the family specialization, but like sexual reproduction it may not be the easiest thing to work out both in a game mechanic way and as something easily understood by players. Biome restrictions are meant to cause trade, just like the gene score is meant to make you care about your immediate family. Do either of them really do that? I don't know.

NoOneEver wrote:

I suggest linking quoted blocks to actual posts, instead of making it purely aesthetic. This way people can't be misquoted and if someone was to edit their quoted post, the quote would update automatically.

Not a bad idea, if I do say so myself.

Caprys · 2020-10-22 13:52:35

OneOfMany wrote:

Again, I apologize for this Spoonwood, while you may not consider me a friend, you are mine.

You can't really hate him, he is just to adorable and sweet. Love that guy......or girl.

DestinyCall · 2020-10-22 14:07:40

Dodge wrote:

He thinks this would "shut Spoonwood up, forever"

Such innocent optimism, huh? It is almost cute.

Some people just don't understand how Spoon works at all.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-22 15:25:46

DestinyCall wrote:

Women can use adobe oven. Men cannot use adobe oven.
Men can drive race cars. Women cannot drive race cars.
These are the only changes. Everything else about OHOL stays the same.
Do you see any problems with this update? It seems a little sexist, don't you think? It reinforces real world gender roles and gender biases. It restricts your choices and what you can do with your life, based on the gender you were born with. Want to be a baker? Too bad, you were born male. Get out of the kitchen. Want to drive really, really fast? Too bad, you were born female. No fast cars for you. Go bake a pie.

But Destiny, then the women could claim that they were doing something useful with their time and they were an asset to society, since they were baking pies, providing food for their families. And the women could also claim that the men were useless, no good boys who just played with their toys, and some men would agree with those women. What's the problem? Women would claim themselves morally superior, and men's contribution wouldn't be valued, which would...

further reinforce real-world stereotypes!

I don't think I have any objections to your comment, nor anything to add. It looks rather good as it stands.

Gogo · 2020-10-22 15:37:08

I like Spoonwood, he's good guy, he just fights for bullshit ideas. But idea that Jason will become weak and imply some mechanic just to satisfy one guy is just... lol.

Spoonwood · 2020-10-22 15:50:03

OneOfMany wrote:

In the game however, sexual reproduction would be a very difficult game mechanic to work out. The same thing can be said about racial/biome restrictions.

I don't think those are comparable. I think we could have biome specific abilities based on the player's family. I think we could have information on the bottom of the screen which clues players into what biome they have complete access to objects. Also, if you *start as a child* in a band with a specific biome only, and you know that, couldn't it be possible that you could know your specific biome object access ability based on your starting band location? Birth location is tracked by Hetuw mod, so I think Jason's code could track the relevant information. And the biome layout doesn't change during one's life, unless there's an apocalypse.

OneOfMany wrote:

It would be more of an interesting game mechanic if the Eve could pick the family specialization, but like sexual reproduction it may not be the easiest thing to work out both in a game mechanic way and as something easily understood by players.

So what if it wouldn't be the easiest thing to do? In the words of the philosopher Benedict Spinoza in the concluding words of his Ethics:

All things excellent are as difficult as they are rare.

I don't think "trade" in this game will ever be compatible with players leaving a legacy and rebuilding from scratch. I think "trying to make trade happen" results in a system that makes such an impossibility in too many cases.

Capyrs wrote:

You can't really hate him, he is just to adorable and sweet. Love that guy......or girl.

I'm a man. Just so that we're clear. And thanks... love you too. In that forum commenter love sort of way.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-10-22 00:28:00

Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#2 2020-10-22 00:59:08

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#3 2020-10-22 01:10:51

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#4 2020-10-22 01:12:42

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#5 2020-10-22 01:21:04

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#6 2020-10-22 01:34:37

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#7 2020-10-22 01:47:26

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#8 2020-10-22 02:04:22

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#9 2020-10-22 02:17:01

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#10 2020-10-22 02:31:44

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#11 2020-10-22 07:02:21

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#12 2020-10-22 08:18:29

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#13 2020-10-22 10:04:54

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#14 2020-10-22 13:52:35

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#15 2020-10-22 14:07:40

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#16 2020-10-22 15:25:46

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#17 2020-10-22 15:37:08

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

#18 2020-10-22 15:50:03

Re: Please Jason, make this one change and shut Spoonwood up, forever

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