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#1 Re: Main Forum » The case for legacy mechanics » 2020-10-21 08:45:26

NoTruePunk wrote:
JonySky wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:

The map is infinite, so kero is infinite. It's just a logistical hurdle harvesting and hauling it.

it is simple to understand!
You live 60 minutes ... if the resources are more than 30 minutes away, you will never be able to return with these resources to your city

Although the map is infinite ... your time is not


Good luck with that!

#2 Re: Main Forum » Rat race » 2020-10-21 08:44:23

NoTruePunk wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:

Race restrictions should be removed.

Remove those and spreading out isn't an issue.  Also, spreading out can resolve the longstanding lack of rebuilding from scratch issue.

I don't see anything about "trade" on Steam, nor race restrictions.

I DO see something about rebuilding from scratch:

"Leave a legacy for the next generation as you help to rebuild civilization from scratch. " … _One_Life/

Additionally, and more importantly, a server filled with 90%+ new players like what happened during the sale is more likely to be able to handle a world without race restrictions than one with them.

Spoon, you keep saying it's an issue we're not rebuilding from scratch, but I really don't think that's a problem. Not every player is going to be the eve that spawns in right after a map wipe. Some of us are actually going to play in that society that she gives birth to. Currently the game has a whole lot more of the first thing happening and a whole lot less of the second.

The game is 95% create a new city for our family
if the city is already created when we respawn as EVE ...
what do we do in the game?

#3 Re: Main Forum » The case for legacy mechanics » 2020-10-20 16:08:13

NoTruePunk wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:

  The jump from a newcomen well to a diesel well unlocks infinite water ...

No.  Tarry spots break, and oil wells deplete.  The *local* supply of water may become more abundant than what anyone cares about at present.  But, it is not infinite.  Not on bigserver2.

When you first played, tarry spots didn't break though, if they existed at that time.  I mean, they didn't break in January of 2019 or December of 2019 (they didn't exist before then though... or at least oil rigs didn't).

You can check onetech on tarry spots and oil wells having a finite number of uses.

The map is infinite, so kero is infinite. It's just a logistical hurdle harvesting and hauling it.

it is simple to understand!
You live 60 minutes ... if the resources are more than 30 minutes away, you will never be able to return with these resources to your city

Although the map is infinite ... your time is not

#4 Re: Main Forum » The case for legacy mechanics » 2020-10-20 15:53:19

Eve Troll wrote:

Towns quickly outgrow their resources so saying they are infinite is naive. The most important resource is time. So the larger a town grows and the more resources it depletes the more time it takes to get the resources it needs. Eventually it will take a lifetime to get some stone, or round rocks, anything basic.

Towns are built to die. No matter how hard we work. How spawns and race restrictions are structured leaves the longevity of families in the hands of jason, not us. Those 600 plus gen fams.. where they because of our hard work or because jason decided spawns should be structured 'this' or 'that' way.  If you have played long enough you should know the answer.

There are dozens of mechanisms limiting growth, limiting stability, and limiting diversity. Why? Either because jason has some fucked up ideals about how society should exist and has a hubris beyond satan's to think he can control the chaos that is humanity. Or maybe he just can't afford servers that can support serious growth.. so he limits our ability to enable that growth. With tool slots, race restrictions, a rift, iron changes, homeland changes, and now this...

Wake up people. If you have been around long enough you know whats *actually* happening with the new change. Further down the path of monotony and predictability. Jason's only response to his inability to manage and balance a living player base.

+1, Bravo!

#5 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: Specialty Biome and Homland geographic banding » 2020-10-20 15:33:30

Dodge wrote:
JonySky wrote:

We are an average of 50 players and we have 16 servers
If we place 1 eve on each server, there will be 3 players left in each family or server ...
I don't want to imagine how "fun" this situation can be

Never said we should spread the playerbase, obviously the player distribution per server should stay the same.

sorry Dodge, it was just a thought...
Yes, I understood that your idea was not exactly this

#6 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: Specialty Biome and Homland geographic banding » 2020-10-20 15:20:50

Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge wrote:

I never said there should be a steady state, at some point it should evolve from each village doing their own thing to something more global where every civilisation that has been made lives in the world and interact with each other to progress, what even is your logic here?

Constant evolution is also a form of steady state, or appears as such on the move.  Again, the design of the game is such that families are deliberately doomed to end.  Evolution of the family doesn't really change that.  Also, it's ALWAYS "you died" at the end of an hour most, and a shorter time period otherwise.  There is no survival in the end.

Dodge wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

how would some finite map (or even the current system when I think about it), filled with almost entirely, if not entirely, new players work?

How would it not work?

Dodge, you want to claim that such would work.  The burden of proof is thus on you.

Lack of space wasn't the problem with new players on server1 or server2 during the recent sale.

Dodge wrote:

I just explained what i value, having an end is not an issue the issue is that it's always the same pattern and nothing really ends up happening with everything being made, you make the village, the village dies, repeat.

Nothing happens after civilisations are being made they dont live in this world they only die, they dont have any story, you just make them to make them but they dont end up existing in this world and in a couple of hours build new ones again just for the sake of building new ones.

So what you value could get described as permenance?  That you could leave behind a legacy that could last?

I think you're speaking more clearly than you were before Dodge.

Dodge wrote:

Picture the start of a new world, the beginning, Eve's spawn, families are made, civilisations are built, these civilisations interact with each other in order to progress and during that progression anything can happen but eventually if we played our cards right and didn't die due to poor management of ressources or bad relationships between civilisations then we reach a point where the lineages that made it up to here are advanced in a level of tech where they can build something that allows them to escape that presumed inevitability and essentially not end up doomed, and keep going.

I think they would have to have a steady state at that point of high technology then.  I don't see how such is consistent with "Everything Runs Out" or "Evolve or Die".

Dodge wrote:

Cant migrate or make outposts because everyone is stuck birthing in their own village, lineages die in a couple of days so no point of having anything long term, you cant really make trading roads between villages because it keeps expanding into infinity so the villages dont build any history or identity and eventually get lost, interactions arent really interesting since they are based on a forced predictability, you HAVE to get latex from the brown people instead of having a choice between getting it yourself but with some sort of cost like more dangerous to be in jungle for someone that isn't native from that region or interact with brown people.

I think I agree with everything here.  It's pretty bad.

Dodge wrote:

Now what if you werent forced to interact with browns to get latex, what if you had the choice between interacting with them or getting it another way although that other way would also have it's pros and cons.

If players had such a choice, I don't see how the current game designer would be deisgning this game.  He isn't able to design a game using such methods.  And I find it doubtful that he could work well with people who know how to do such.  Not from what I've seen at least.

Dodge wrote:

Since you dont NEED them for survival it means you have the CHOICE wether or not you would make that ressource available or not and since you wouldn't strictly need them to reach end game then there would be advantages to keeping that ressource for yourself and advantages aswell in trading it, in other words it would become a decision that depends on the situation and not some forced thing that you have to do by obligation everytime, bland.

Such definitely sounds more interesting to me.  I think it might also work better for new players, since they would have more possibility of happening upon such somewhat by chance, or clumsily.

Dodge wrote:

There's 12 different servers they could all have their own story, their own world.

It's 16 different servers.  bigserver2, and servers 1 through server 15.  Sure, that looks like a minor detail.  What is not so minor is that to have different servers with their own story, the game also would need more players, or the game has to be appealing enough in itself for low populations of players.  It would also require more code.  It would also be rather different than how the current game designer runs things.  It'd probably require a different philosophy for game development.

We are an average of 50 players and we have 16 servers
If we place 1 eve on each server, there will be 3 players left in each family or server ...
I don't want to imagine how "fun" this situation can be

#7 Re: Main Forum » Recent One Hourish Review From Steam » 2020-10-20 13:50:02

NoTruePunk wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:

Jason said no GUI. He's committed to that.

Where and when? Was it in some advertisement or promise when people bought the game?  Did he say that in some comment or post in the forums *with a date* on it?  If it's not in any advertisement, it's likely a statement made with some time indicator on it.  Temporally dependent statements, which is many of all possible statements, can and often enough change from true to false.  So, I don't see how him saying that, even *if* he did say such, would mean much.

It's also supposed to be an one hour game.  One would rationally expect engaging one's biggest parts of one's brain as much as possible and often as possible.  A pictorial based crafting guide is a lot closer to such expectations than text-based ones.

He sorta gets into it here in a rant about lettering: … 424#p44424

this he wrote in 2019-02-04 19:25:26
currently an average of 40 players remain
I don't have much confidence

#8 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: Specialty Biome and Homland geographic banding » 2020-10-20 10:39:14

I have more fun reading these forums than playing the game ...

First ... I must repeat that the trade will not work, the reason is the same as until now ... because it is not necessary to trade when you can steal or loot without complications

Creating new mechanics and mods to try to force trade (again) is like stumbling over the same stone

There is also no bargaining chip, nor are there shops, there is nothing special to trade, there are no trades, there are no specialists, everyone can do everything

trying to implement trade in a sloppy way and without a purpose is absurd

I must add that ...
The game has become very predictable and boring, it's always the same ...

the cities are the same
the biomes are the same
the tasks are the same
even the 40 players are the same!

I think this new update is going to make the game even more boring ...

The game does not need this update ...
The game needs new challenges
currently everything is based on water and iron ... there is nothing else

Sorry but the game won't improve with a map change ...
I appreciate Jason's effort, but it's not a good approach

#9 Re: Main Forum » Shitposting watering cans every day till they're added » 2020-10-19 16:06:40

NoTruePunk wrote:
Eve Troll wrote:
Caprys wrote:

That's like saying that we have carnitas when you ask for bacon.

Its more like asking for an abacus when you have a calculator.

Diesel powered calculator :joy:

Sprinklers are expensive as fuck and don't solve the problem in the interim or for the occasional manual watering that will continue to happen even after a sprinkler is set up.

I always believed that when Jason added this type of object (the sprinkler) we would obtain very great advantages, such as more abundant crops ... hahahaha I'm stupid!

#10 Re: Main Forum » Genetic Fitness Rework? » 2020-10-19 15:31:00

Dantox wrote:

I am surprised that jason hasnt given up on the gene score yet, so perhaps he is thinking on reworking it some day since right now its pretty much just RNG. Howerver i can see how difficult might implemente a score in general in a game that doesnt track "survival actions" that could conclude in x amounts of survival points or whatever. I think the game would be better if there wasnt a gene score in general.

I also think that the genetic points should disappear

OHOL is a game where when night falls, the low population of players "kills" many families every week

This should be an indicator that a system of "genetic points" based on family survival will not work.

Genetic points must be individual ... and must be based on personal efforts

punishing or rewarding an individual for the acts of other players is contradictory ... (like everything in this game)

ehhh, but don't worry! we have racing cars!

#11 Re: Main Forum » Genetic Fitness Rework? » 2020-10-15 14:48:13

Caprys wrote:

I don't even pay attention to my gene score because I don't like to be leader and it is still good. Maybe I'm just lucky.

If you don't do anything to increase your genetic score and still get more points ... it is evident that something is not working and it is just a matter of luck

#12 Re: Main Forum » Genetic Fitness Rework? » 2020-10-15 08:08:17

OdinCockeril is also right ...
Productivity (about 50 minutes of play, not counting childhood) is useless in its genetic score

The genetic system will not give you more points for creating 1000 cakes
It won't even give you points for creating a single cake, because the genetic system only checks for the survival of its relatives

You can feed your children carrots and berries and if they manage to reach 60 years of age alive the system will give you points.... luck ?, probability ?, experience ?, individual intelligence ... maybe ... but group work NO!

Another curious situation: if your brother is a griefer and steals all his food to throw it behind the trees, but he lives to be 60 years old, the system will reward him with points ... interesting!(they will give you points too..., even if you manage to kill him when his brother is 50 years old ... he will also receive points!hahaha)

There is also the case of a player who wants to create dogs, or a racing car, or an airplane, or a radio.
they are useless items in the survival of the family ... what do we do with their genetic score?

what use is this? What motivation does this system generate?

#13 Re: Main Forum » Genetic Fitness Rework? » 2020-10-15 07:21:06

NoTruePunk wrote:

I think we get a nice amount of teamwork on cooking and furnace tasks. And delegation and division of labor still counts as teamwork to me. Having someone go prep stacks of kindling is a huge help for everyone, even if they never personally use the kindling and it's an individual task.

In his words, if I steal wood from another city and take it to my city, is it also a team effort?
Or an EVE that stays in a dead city to reestablish it?
is it also a team effort with the dead family?

So, should you give me the genetic points of the other family?

This not the logical

A teamwork is NOT based on using the wood that another player has cut

A team effort is cutting a tree between 2 players
If there is no teamwork, there should be no rewards

#14 Re: Main Forum » Genetic Fitness Rework? » 2020-10-13 21:46:19

Spoonwood wrote:
JonySky wrote:

The memescore must not be modified ... it must be removed

What's your objection(s)?

Typically in video games, rewards, scores and prizes are earned through the effort of the player or a team of players

For example, in APEX Legends, a team of players unite the skills of each character / player to be victorious (there is a common goal)

In OHOL there is no teamwork, the players perform individual tasks for 60 minutes (most of the time for fun)

Surely some of you think that the challenge of the group is to survive ... but to survive is an individual and personal challenge, it is not a family challenge

In early camp, when there is no food, the most skilled players survive ...
the fate of the family is pure luck! ... if the last girl is a new player ... that family dies ... that simple

There is no team, no family ... Each player is independent and performs independent tasks

So ... why has a score been created where the survival of the family is so important?

Simple: it is another forced mechanic to encourage teamwork, just like skill boxes and racist skills

But ... as in any game, you can always take advantage of the defects of the game mechanics

In OHOL, you can dedicate some games to raise your genetic score by forcing the feeding of your closest relatives so that they do not die of hunger and chasing and watching them with pads and needles, like a babysitter so that they do not end up dead

this is the only thing that encourages the genetic punctuation of meme ...
and ... no this is not family work either

#15 Re: Main Forum » Genetic Fitness Rework? » 2020-10-13 11:57:00

The memescore must not be modified ... it must be removed

#17 Re: Main Forum » Building insulation needs to be bigger » 2020-10-06 08:30:44

DestinyCall wrote:

The walls are too far apart, so the engine cannot "see" all four walls are present when calculating if the space is "inside" or "outside".

yeah that's another big game engine problem
The smartest solution would be to update the game engine to get basic things like:

- temperature system
- shared transportation
- climatology
- diseases

If we don't change the motor, the only thing we're going to get is sloppy patches or incoherent magic solutions.

#18 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-10-02 09:35:53

Dodge wrote:
JonySky wrote:
Dodge wrote:

You know the game is boring when the top post is this...

Are you having fun with the game? perfect! I'm so glad that you have fun and that you like the game!

I have no fun playing this game, currently it's very boring and like you mentionned passed a certain point loses it's interest, i have more fun thinking about ways to make it better, i do believe that this game has a great potential and could be fun to be played even beyond the initial x hours, but needs a lot of work and especially needs Jason to figure things out, which right now is far from it..

do not express me well dodge, this comment was directed to Caprys
But I share your comment on boredom

#19 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-10-02 09:03:30

Caprys wrote:
Dodge wrote:

His argument here is basically since it takes less time for gingers to obtain kerosene for water and since water is crucial then the big bad Jason is making the game racist because gingers who are white spend less time getting water and time is the best ressource so this makes them "superior" to other races because they have more time.

I wouldn't say that it saves them time. They have to find the oil spots, make the resources to get it (witch include a lot of their own iron that has to be replaced), bring all the resources to the oil spot, prepare the oil spot, get the oil and to top it off they deliver it to the other fams doorstep without any repayment. Not to mention that most of the time empty tanks are not getting returned by the other fams. With means that the ginger that wants get oil after the first run have to go to other fam to retrieve the empty tanks or has to waste more iron of their own to make more tanks.

And the person that does all this is a veteran. That is one less veteran that can work in the ginger town to improve it.

This is another big OHOL problem
Racist restrictions do not encourage collaboration or trade ... they generate just the opposite

I explain:
Imagine that you want to be a great wine producer and you want to trade in your wine production ...
to trade in wine you need a certain amount of glass bottles

In one life, a player can create (more or less) about 3 or 4 bottles of wine ... (if we have everything we need)

If you want to trade wine, you must have a minimum requirement of about 3 bottles of wine for each family, (to trade with less quantity, it no longer makes sense to trade) in total you need 12 glass bottles (more or less)

You need 4 lives to create 12 glass bottles
Of course, you also need a lot of time to make several trips to take these bottles to the family that is in charge of making the wine and to gather the necessary components to create those glass bottles.

I omit that in the course of those 4 lives, the bottles will disappear, or they will be used for other things, or they will be stolen, I also omit that cups have to be created for all families (minimum 4) caps for the bottles and funnels
I also omit that all this has to be created with the language barrier, with the national barrier and with the possibility of your family dying due to lack of children in any of those 4 lives (remember that if you want to trade or distribute bottles of glass altruistically could not have children)

Basically to produce wine and trade, we need a person dedicated for 4 lives exclusively to create bottles of wine (4 lives = 4 real hours) and possibly he will never see a bottle full of wine, nor will he be able to see the final result

this is not boring ????

This situation shows that racist restrictions do not promote trade, rather they destroy it

#20 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-10-02 06:43:47

AdamWest420 wrote:

Eh ive got like 60hrs in the game, bought around a month ago. I dont think new players are really driven away by "condemned to do the same over and over again" since every life im still learning something new. I do hunt rabbits or farm every other life for 5-10mins and besides explaining yum 100 times it hasn't gotten repetitive for me yet. Every game has people that play just once. I feel like this game has a higher amount since it doesn't hold your hand if the mother you are born too doesn't. The quality of the first few lives played probably makes a big difference. My first life I was left in the woods to die. My second life I had some pro be my super mom, taught me basic farming, making compost and how to smith tools all in like 40 mins.

Dodge's phrase describes it perfectly

Dodge wrote:

You know the game is boring when the top post is this...

Are you having fun with the game? perfect! I'm so glad that you have fun and that you like the game!

Curiously, all of us who write in this forum also like the game and that is why we propose new ideas, write suggestions, indicate where the errors are and explain that mechanics are not working well.

The real problem is that of the 350 players who accessed the game 2 weeks ago, only 60 players remain (the numbers are not deceiving)

I don't think the first few games of a game will flog new players
Example: RUST, the level of frustration in the first games is much higher than in OHOL I guarantee it! but it has a player base growing every week.

but ... there are more reasons that generate the massive abandonment of this game (lack of logic, absurd magic mechanics, racist mechanics, lack of challenges, imbalance between races, a lot of disorder, etc ...) if you view the trailer of this game you don't see any of this

PS: Dayz mod, ... boring? I have 2000 hours in that game and I don't remember being bored even one night in that game, but I guess it depends on each type of player!

#21 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-10-01 16:35:37

Eve Troll wrote:

The game has also been balanced for a small population. So when we have a large influx everything goes haywire. The population often drops off quickly though. Either due to the palatability of the game or the game being unbalanced for population growth. Maybe a mixture of the two.

The game has gotten boring, just that.
I've played a lot of buggy and unbalanced games, but I kept playing them because they were fun and each game was incredible and different.

Dayz Mod was a good example ... a game full of bugs, and hackers, but it was one of the most popular games in history

At OHOL you are condemned to do the same over and over again ...

that's why new players are disappearing

#22 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-09-29 20:52:21

Rookwood wrote:

I like the trade that results from biome restrictions. 

I also feel like you guys don't even play the game.  No one is racist in game in the ways you are suggesting.  Gingers don't dominate everyone because they have oil.  Whites don't walk around bossing people around because they can speak to anyone. It's all in your heads.  And I'm the one with my head up my ass?

sorry, but... did you say trade?
what trade do you mean ???

#23 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-09-29 15:57:42

The breed limitations in OHOL are poorly implemented and smack of racism (although I am convinced it was never Jason's intention)

But races must have different tech trees without using artificial and racist limitations.

Forbidding the collection of resources from an area is like a dirty plaster on top of a wound (a sloppy solution)

An example: Age of empires ... each race has different characteristics, but all can collect resources in any area of the map and all can create different military and commercial units

It surprises me that in the 21st century we continue to coexist with racism, xenophobia or sexism

I hope that someday these forced and meaningless mechanics are improved and new mechanics can be implemented without offending anyone

#24 Re: Main Forum » @Spoonwood Happy 3000 posts! » 2020-09-28 07:43:48

congratulations spoonwood
I'm with you!


#25 Re: Main Forum » Abuse by Griefers » 2020-09-24 18:48:14

Dodge wrote:
JonySky wrote:

got damn!!! On September 20, 400 people accessed the servers and the rubber banding was so horrible that I thought the servers were going to explode! Now imagine that same situation with war swords, horse battles and bloody corpses ... the game engine and netcode are not prepared to implement war, we also do not have anti cheat systems

If your argument against war behing a thing is rubber banding then the answer is pretty obvious, diminishing the load per server and spreading across the multiple empty ones.

So yes i can totally imagine two towns of 10 players fighting against each other without it being an issue for the server.

There is no major issue with the engine or netcode preventing it, just a matter of numbers.

And about the cheats i have no idea what specifically you are reffering to, what exact cheat, but that can be dealt as needed.

So no, not any technical reason preventing it.

Do you think that 20 players with war swords, horses, gutted people, corpses on the ground, all together with a dance of people trying to kill each other and all this in a small area of the map would not generate rubber banding? I dont believe it.
Do you think that wars are viable only by reducing the load on the servers? ...
And what do we do with the current gang mechanics?
and with the mechanics of posse?
and with auto-pointing?
and with leadership?

Do you know the causes of the implementation of these mechanics?
Let's see for example the implementation of posse ...
Do you know why it was implemented?
Let me summarize it: before having the posse system, killing a griefer was exaggeratedly difficult due to the dance and the equal speed of movement
look at Jason's notes:

If you implement war, you must eliminate these mechanics since they are not compatible with war, but if you eliminate these mechanics, you will get more problems ... for example the assassin dance ...

Do you know why this happens? Because the game engine is not prepared for a PVP game and these mechanics are only patches to counteract this deficiency in the engine

and on the subject of cheats it is logical even if you do not want to see it ... if the game has a competitive point, there will be people who cheat ... cruel reality even if you do not like it

If you first implement war and then an anti-cheat system you are starting the house from the roof

if you want to create a battle (pvp) first prepare the game so that it is not an absolute chaos and a disaster

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