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#1 Re: Main Forum » Servers as a karma ladder? » 2018-05-28 21:35:08

@jason I know you know how big of a change a "karma" system is to OHOL; that's why this thread is so long and old.

And you are right, it is a very big change, and griefers will not be the concern if some possible consequences of this decision come to be.

I do not like the Karma system for a very deep reason, but I don't think you like it more than I do.

So I say good luck on your decision smile

#2 Re: Main Forum » how do i contact jason » 2018-05-28 21:13:01

TrustyWay wrote:

If the email doesn't work :

- Repost this thread thousand times
- Track his IP, find his address
-wait front of his house doing nothing, it does engage contact after few days.
- Everytime there is a eye contact, do backflip so he doesn't freak out
- Write your questions with macaronis and glue
- He will answer you with dances through his windows, so watch out carefully

Tried all that, doesn't work.

Don't listen to him OP

#3 Re: Main Forum » VirtualBox image with Ubuntu and OHOL test server pre-installed » 2018-05-28 19:47:25

Frag4Free wrote:

btw, for increasing storage: you don't have to skip straight to PLAN B if you don't see the slider.

for me there was just one more step in between: i had to select one of the two options given by VirtualBox (don't remember how they where called, i've choosen the top one) and i got my  capacity slider at the bottom. (fyi, be aware that you only can move it to increase the capacity not reduce it. so don't overdo it if you might want to move the server to a smaller disc in the future...)

might help someone, makes things a lot easier

You are completely right, I did find that out recently but totally forgot to edit my post, mind if I update it with your comment?

Thx for reminding me smile

#4 Re: Main Forum » Dying of old age is too difficult » 2018-05-21 13:50:10

And sometimes, consider suicide at around 55 or 56, especially when in a relatively poor colony, you're consuming much more than you're contributing after that.

#5 Re: Main Forum » Tamed horse running » 2018-05-16 12:05:40

breezeknight wrote:

yeah, waiting too for that to happen

vote here … _to_trees/


tumbitiger wrote:

Only work around would be to place a fence in the middle of a foraging area like a savanna or swamp. Apart from that, they're just an unnecessary nuisance at this stage...

couldn't agree more

but maybe i should extent my helping gameplay to fence placement in all sorts of areas surrounding a town
though it will be quite cumbersome since a fence kit cannot be placed in a cart, not even a Long Straight Shaft lol
but i could at least carry always the basic things in a cart,
hm, does an Adze go into a backpack ? i suppose also not

i should make another suggestion, about more realistic extended placement of things in a cart

- - -

A Cart can hold 2 straight branches, 1 azde, and a 1 shovel.
BP can hold round stone and stakes (and a pie)

That's your fence making kit right there.

You can either make a cart trip to fence location,
or take some risk and go by horse if you are a fast fence maker catching the horse every 1 or 2 steps of fence making and not forgetting to eat (wouldn't recommend this unless you're a really experienced player tho)

#6 Re: Main Forum » Pie Engine Design » 2018-05-16 10:49:59

Alleria wrote:
pein wrote:

berry is not for food, its for sheep and compost, obviously this setup needs to be further from carrot farm where kids, noobs and elders stay

Berry IS for food. The current meta is to use as few carrots as possible. Also, 200 carrots for a life is WAY off. 30(good players)-100(bad players) is more like it.

Every cycle producing 12 mutton pies will give us 2 extra dung.
Each extra dung => 3 new berry bushes + 1 plot to replace used wheat

This means we can expand the berry farm as much as we need easily
Maybe even set up a separate farm away from the engine for kids and elders to consume
Just have to build enough wells for them as we expand (1 shallow well for each 6 plots is more than enough)

I find that carrots are the most wasteful food source in terms of soil, water, space, workforce, and even food value.
And being almost impossible to manage by 1 single player (and too tedious to spend a whole life on), this makes it even more wasteful.
Plus it would require soil frequently, so it would interfere with the Engine unless a separate wheat+berry farm are added close to it, and dung trips are regularly made by the Farmers, who now have to manage compost making as well (the reason why carrot farms break down sooner or later even if good players are working them)

The pie engine is designed for good players running the colony, if we add new players and griefers to the mix, no design will be even close to good enough.

I imagined this engine at the core of colonies like the one designed to break generation records with players coordination and some minimum planning ahead of time (Like the one Alleria was part of recently for example)

But the fact that the only "external" things it would require are Kindle and a new Shovel and Shears from time to time, makes it as efficient as it can possibly be at the current state of the game and can be part of regular colonies on the public servers (+ The unneeded Hoe makes it even better)

And of course having 3 or 4 plots of carrots, utilized in the same manner as the 1 plot detailed in OP, as well as the possibility of growing 2 sheep at a time, would make it run constantly at full speed if needed. A bigger berry farm would be need of course.

Anti-griefing measures:
We can make this whole design grief proof, if we build the whole thing inside a Stone Room with a couple of doors with keys protected by some filled trash pits to make it harder to block; Engineers would regularly put new pies outside and get empty plates inside, then lock the doors behind them (some kindle trips would be needed as well unless we have about 4-6 of trees inside the room).
And if a griefer manages to slip inside while the door is open, they find themselves trapped in a room with at least 2 engineers armed with Knives: WELCOME TO THE DEATH ARENA smile <= this would actually be like a breath of fresh air for engineers who get to play a mini-game to break the routine of their job.
But i don't focus a lot on anti-griefing methods, just not fun to me.

#7 Re: Main Forum » Pie Engine Design » 2018-05-15 16:38:15

Lily wrote:

Since you have the extra space, seems like you should just make an extra carrot plot solely for seeds. Also since seeds take a lot longer, if you can grow a lot more carrots if you pick them all and replant. Instead of four carrots every 9 minutes, you get 5 carrots every 2 and you are using the same amount of soil.

You can plant more bushes and make more wells and that may increase the pie production. Or you can just feed the extra carrots to the elderly and young, so they are not wasting pies.

Yes if seeds take too long, 2 or 3 carrot plots can be planted and rotating between them the same way as with 1 plot would be ideal.

I'd rather never feed people carrots, a big berry farm and more wells would feed the young and old without the hassle of carrots.

#8 Main Forum » Pie Engine Design » 2018-05-15 15:41:52

Replies: 17

Below is the design for a Pie Engine.

It is meant to be the only food source for a colony, designed to be compact, sustainable, and (almost) self sufficient. (NO CARROT FARMS smile)
It can be run by 2 or even 1 single player.
It is meant to fulfill the needs of 6 to 8 players total (maybe even more, some testing would be required)
It can easily produce more with slight adjustments (more carrot plots, more sheep, more wheat...)
It is a pit stop for the rest of the colonists where they drop an empty plate, take a fresh pie, and be on their way to do their business.
It can also be a "school" teaching new players berry/wheat/carrot farming, sheep growing, pie making and baking, and even fire making, all in one organized place.
It is not designed to be grief proof.
Its full size is 10x11 (could be 10x8 or even 9x8 but I like to leave a bit of space)

Pie Engine Excel Blueprint

How to use:
This engine is made to bake 12 pies at a time, once uncooked pies fill the 4 baskets around the oven.

1 Carrot plot is enough for this task:
- 3 Carrots to feed 3 sheep producing 12 meat
- 1 Carrot to add to compost
- 1 Carrot left to seed (lol gets me every time) <= Replants the plot and removes the need for a Hoe!

The compost pile would remake the soil wasted by:
- 3 Wheat for 3 Flour producing 12 pie crusts
- 1 Carrot plot

The 3 wheat will also provide:
- 2 Straw for 1 Basket
- 1 Straw for compost
(The 4th wheat plot is for seeds and is not meant to be harvested)

How to run the sheep pen:
1- Feed lamb
2- Adult sheep + Dung
3- Wait for lamb
4- Feed new lamb
5- Shear and kill adult (or kill then skin for hide depending on need)
6- Back to step (2-)

Note: the engine can be paused if no more pies are needed straight away by not feeding the new lamb, then restarting at (2-) when needed,
And the Basket inside the Pen is meant to transport sheep bones somewhere south after slaughter.

This engine will produce: (for every 12 mutton pies)
- 1 Dung for compost
- 2 Dung extra for other stuff (or if too much dung, you can keep only 2 cells empty inside pen for Sheep and Lamb, so that no more Dung is produced)
- 3 wool (or sheep skins)
- 1 basket

- More wells can be added
- Berries and wheat farms can be extended with extra dung
- East of pen is meant to be for clothing/gear/dyeing (maybe also milkweed farm)
- West of berries can be baby raising station providing children with berries early on (farm should be extended)
- Forge may be somewhere close to Oven to share fire if possible (fire station could be by the forge)
- The extra dung can make more soil making it possible to create satellite starting colonies around the big city for those who'd like that mode of play.

And MOST importantly, it's by far more fun to run than the tedious carrot farm and is therefore more likely to be manned!

And for those who hate excel blueprints, here's an in-game screenshot of that design (Fire station kept by the forge to the North-East)

Note that I kept the sheep sheared cause I don't want dead lambs everywhere, and I had 1 extra carrot seed available to feed the sheep and start the engine again.

Pie Engine In-Game Screenshot

I am open to suggestions and tweaks to the design; blind spots are always a possibility.

#9 Re: Main Forum » Where did the coordinates go? » 2018-05-11 21:59:13

jasonrohrer wrote:

There are a handful of people who have played the game exactly once for exactly one hour.  Getting born, getting taken care of, and living to old age in some village.  And then never playing the game again.  I guess they feel like they got their money's worth in that one precious hour.  I mean, really, that has to be the greatest first hour of video game play ever.  Their parents probably taught them stuff and everything.  One of these people even wrote a review, even though they never played again after that first life:

My favorite part about this is it forces everyone to work together to survive. People just work together and cities grow out of it.

But... But... You're saying that for those people's "first hour" playing the game, they would be "lucky" if it wasn't their mom's first hour playing the game. That it would probably be their best hour of gameplay. Right? I mean is there something I'm not getting here?

And that's the core of it, you want the best "first (and only) hour experience game", you have to have servers filled with decent seasoned players filling the colonies and new players popping in and being catered to.

I call it catered to, because at this state of the game, you'd have to be saved multiple times from death on your first run almost 100% of the time, and way after growing hair.

And if you do survive just staying next to farm eating carrots from baskets, you'd still die from starvation somewhere between 57 and 59 once the alarm stops ringing "for no apparent reason" smile

This great first hour experience provided by seasoned players maintaining and developing colonies is what's keeping most people coming back, and very few leaving an awesome review and then never coming back again.

Focusing on those people who "claim" that was the best experience they've ever had ever to then never even attempting to live it again, and wanting your game to aim for that is very weird to me. Interesting, but weird.

#10 Re: Main Forum » Pinging the Well » 2018-05-11 13:34:43

YAHG wrote:

1. First have bowl with water in it next to wells in a big line. Bring your own empty containers with you.

2. Put water in first well.

3a It goes in take it back out. Don't use this well, it has failed your ping. You don't know it is full.

3b It does not go in, note what type of well it is, you know how much water is in this well, use some..

That's it.

Building a well to use it for just 1 bowl of water every 5 mn, makes it much less valuable than a pond, which gives me a bad feeling that the only reason behind the well mechanic is to avoid easy solutions and to keep the game at Hard mode. Making it impossible to solve the water problem once and for all.

My proof for that is actually simple: No one is ever suspected to be a griefer if seen drying up a well, not even a "SORRY" is in order, and the witness would not even try to tell them what they did wrong (because they did nothing wrong). They simply were the guy who took out the last pouch of water, nothing more nothing less, he hunted the last rabbit (10 hours = forever as far as those players are concerned) without even realizing it.

Good thing nothing irl compares to that. Not sure how good it's for OHOL tho.

#11 Re: Main Forum » Where did the coordinates go? » 2018-05-11 13:10:09

The hardest part about discussion in forum threads is "projection" based replies.

By that I mean, replying to someone not about what THEY meant by THEIR post, but about what YOU would've meant if YOU had posted what they did.
(me included btw)

What I'm saying is simple, and even naive in its idealistic reasons:

<< The less "choices" players feel they are allowed to make by game mechanics, the less meaningful (and unique) the OHOL experience would become >>

No argument counters that directly, however it may not always be wise to uphold this principle.

That is why I say frequently "Jason has tough choices to make".

I may not agree with his choices sometimes, but I try to never say they are "bad choices", not even in my mind.

Same with players, if you feel that finding your way back through coordinates is "not a meaningful experience", be aware that what you're actually saying is "this is not a meaningful experience TO YOU".

Cause what is "absolutely" meaningful about griefing then? or tending the farm for 60 mn? or bulding a room in the middle of nowhere? Or writing "DICKBUTT" on a sign?

Players decide what's meaningful to them, and they always will. And that is what fascinates me about OHOL really, not the new hot item to craft.

I played OHOL is many different ways, and that's what makes it unique FOR ME. I would've had to play 10 different games to have all the experiences I had with only one!!

Maybe I want to spend 12 play hours today just to go back to the same colony I started by myself; challenging myself to get to sheep and infinite soil ignoring all babies and not having any help. Possibly making me appreciate other's help a lot more as a result!

Maybe I want to spend 10 hours just spawning randomly in colonies and filling the different gaps in them feeling I "saved" them all. Satisfying my God complex or nourrishing my sense of self-worth.

Maybe I want to only be a mom caring for babies today, showing them around the colony, telling them stories, seeing them type L-O-L or X-D and building bonds with them that makes them gather around me before I die telling me they will not forget me (Possibly even reading a story they wrote about me on the forums)

Maybe I want to be the guardian of the "STAR" family today, spawning over and over in that colony and defending it against that pesky griefer who's determined to destroy it. Making my life a challenge to identify him over and over again, then neutralizing him, or dying in the process and coming back to try again.

<< The more choices you eliminate by design, the more evolution opportunities you miss. >>

The only chance for this game to exceed even your expectations, Jason, is for you to let it find its own way. I may refer to you as God as an analogy, but that's a fictitious one, and I don't think you identify with that role.
A role closer to home would be that of a FATHER; who can get so worried about their child that he may become overprotective and over involved in their life.

I'm the guy on the forum telling you, TRUST YOUR CHILD, you raised (coded) him well. He's becoming stronger with each obstacle he's overcoming ALONE. And the more help you provide for him, the less strength he gains from his achievements.

I do love you all big_smile

#12 Re: Main Forum » What the heck happened?? » 2018-05-11 12:32:07

Guys, this happens when servers are being updated.

Servers are updated in 2 batches, ODD numbered servers first, then EVEN numbered ones.

So if you're on Server 1 and an update starts rolling out, all ODD servers are off limits for new players logging in, so no more kids on those servers until they are all completely empty. During that time, new babies and eves are popping on Server 2.

Then when the update completes for ODD servers, new eves and babies start popping out on server 1 and EVEN servers are locked until empty and updated.

You can check the status of all public servers here: … ion=report

#13 Re: Main Forum » Where did the coordinates go? » 2018-05-10 14:39:15

FeignedSanity wrote:

I have to disagree with you Roolstar. Yes, it helped fix the repeat griefer problem, but that was more of a bonus in my opinion. It really gave the game some much needed direction and impact in my opinion. Now your city is much more important considering you can't just suicide and boringly trek your way back. It gives the bell a purpose other than being a major annoyance. I think it is short sighted to say that this was only focused on solving the repeat griefing problem. This, along with the lineage cool-down are very welcomed additions.

And as far as the mentality of, who cares what happens to the city cause I probably wont be back to see it, is entirely lost on me. I don't spend an hour tending the carrot farm just so I can have food when I come back, I don't forge a plethora of tools and risk someone getting nervious about the steel file I'm making just so I we can have mutton pies and wool clothes when I come back. I've recently started playing the game more with others and respawning back repeated, and I can see the appeal. But that's not what shines about this game to me, that's just a kind of nifty feature.

I agree totally. That's the game I signed up for a s well.

I have never been the player who would suicide to get back to "my" colony (back when I played on the main server), because that's how I like this game to be; a new genre, not another Minecraft or Don't Starve type, where you experience "selfless contribution" to a community whether you ever see it back again or not. I've always defended Jason's philosophy behind this.

But even more important for me was Jason's past opposition to "implementing server side solutions to problems that the community should fix by themselves" (not an exact quote). Like disabling killing other players as a game feature, or moderators banning repeat offenders, or distinguishing between new and experienced players... All ideas suggested in the past and rightfully rejected based on the core philosophy behind this game.

I always admired, and sometimes defended, his stance on this and his statements that "this game would be shaped by the decision of the players, design and restrictions should be minimal, and system intervention should be ideally non existent" (not an exact quote)

But today however, I see a Jason "forced" to start bending core principles to deal with repeat griefers (of all things).

Ideas like making it impossible to find a previous colony by coordinates, and implementing a cooldown to spawn back into a previous lineage were surely one of the first things any designer of such a game would've had to consider withing the 3 years of development. And in my opinion, they were dismissed based on the principles stated above.

That's why in my precious post, I considered that OP's reasons behind implementing them today to be "rationalizations" and not the real reason behind them. I find that griefers pressure finally got to him. And this worries me.

Someone likes to find their old colony using coordinates or whatever else should remain their choice to make.
You want to be born somewhere, wait to be old enough, gather or make resources and tools needed for the journey, then set out on a long journey to find your long lost colony, should remain a choice that some players want to make, and an experience some would find fulfilling.
Even repeat suicide to get there should be as well.

But now both those "decisions" are impossible to make by "game design". This is making the game less and less a experience shaped by players like it promised to be, and we will see more and more of those restrictions in the future.

Just to be clear: those 2 changes are perfectly fine for the way "I" like to play the game, and they may even solve the problems they set out to solve; but I will always defend other players preferred play style even griefers.

Even though I share your mentality in tending the carrot farm and crafting tools for "others" to use and not for me to come back to find them, now I can't feel proud/fulfilled/ashamed/guilty for having that mentality, since now the server is making the decision for me.

I was hoping to one day start seeing posts on this forum with titles like "Playing this game changed me: from griefer, to selfish player, to selfless contributor" or even the opposite. And I honestly think Jason cares about this even more than I do.

But now there's less ownership of your in-game actions and less credit for playing a certain way versus the other: now everyone is "forced" to contribute to a community they might not see again. And the only choice we'll eventually have is to either play this game or not; just like any other game.

Although this makes me sad, but it also interests me: players are not the only one evolving and changing because of OHOL, Jason is as well.
He is learning to become a "god" as I call it; and I don't mean that in an insulting kind of way. But he really has some tough choices to make concerning his "creation", and I sincerely wish him the best of luck.

My signature holds both a description of my view, and a prediction for the future. I'm certain I'm right about the former, and I hope I'm wrong about the latter.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm sure you know by now what a rambler I am smile

#14 Re: Main Forum » Santan was my mom and she was awesome!! » 2018-05-10 11:53:36

fragilityh14 wrote:

what makes you believe it was a Santan bot?

I know there are a lot of "gaps" in the OP story. I left it that way on purpose 'cause I don't want this thread to turn into a "police investigation".

I'll just say that I am 99.99 % certain it was a BOT: Santan is the name I will call all bots until someone else claims ownership of one.

There were many indicators though. Some people will be able to identify the bot, and some won't. But with some attention and observation, I think anybody can.

#15 Re: Main Forum » A look at Jason's performance as a God so far » 2018-05-08 16:25:13

Spiegel wrote:

Woah, Roolstar, that sounds brilliant!

Thank you dude, I appreciate it smile

#16 Re: Main Forum » I am very dissappointed in what this game has become » 2018-05-08 16:24:07

in case you are subscribed to this thread OP

I'd like you to have a look at a post I made titled: A look at Jason's performance as a God so far … 842#p12842

I feel like I would enjoy your input on this, from a story teller to another smile

#17 Re: Main Forum » Where did the coordinates go? » 2018-05-08 16:00:56

Sad to see that griefers are setting the tone of development of this game, same like most others.

Griefers can come back and grief, solution: no one can come back anymore. Brilliant.

Rationalization: OP post

This game started from "I want no inherent restrictions from the server side" to "Now you are not allowed to..."

Still I get it, I see why you made those changes, and I actually expected them.

I was still kinda hoping for a surprise though, maybe a new way of thinking about game design, but maybe it's too much to hope for.

Not being able to stay in the same lineage does not solve the reborn griefer problem in an intelligent way, it simply makes people not even care about someone griefing a colony they would never see again!
I actually predict a rise in griefing because of that.

You'll notice some griefing going on around your colony and you'll go: "Welp, so much for this colony. Guess it's time to quit and go somewhere else since this is what's going to happen anyway. In fact, since I have like 5-10 minutes left to live here anyway, why not join the fun and destroy this place before I go, i didn't like the sheep pen design here anyway."

No more sense of belonging which brought this whole experience together.

Even worse, you wait till the next day, and miraculously find yourself in the place you started the day before, you feel the joy and happiness, only to see your mom saying "SORRY TOO MANY". Awesome experience, great story, would recommend. And no she is not a griefer, she's just a responsible parent who ruined your experience, and crushed your dreams because the "server" would not allow you another chance today.

Anyway, good luck dude. I am really rooting for you (and not just with words btw) and I wish we'll get out of the dark ages really soon.

#18 Re: Main Forum » A look at Jason's performance as a God so far » 2018-05-08 13:47:05

JS wrote:

I am aware of the reasonable defense of a sheriff recognized by society.
Therefore, I have proposed a jury system.
When the sheriff "solved", nearby residents recognized his "solution".

(I suggested a popup window in the past.)

For a simple solution, we can mark our support by clicking on the red sheriff's bare hand.
When the sheriff gets support, a supporter's name or number is displayed next to the red name.
If the sheriff gets three or five supporters, the penalty disappears.

It is similar to high five of sports game.

Or a much simpler suggestion I made a while back and didn't gain any traction for some reason

<< You kill a person, someone has to feed you once before you can eat on your own again >>

Details here:

Exert from that thread that relate to your point:
However needing someone to feed you after makes things interesting: (and more realistic)
- If you are a guard who's doing his/her job, citizens feed you. (Similar to armed forces and cops irl, with the support of the community)
- Make a mistake and shoot someone accidentally, someone "vouches" for you and feeds you. (game mechanics are tricky with a weapon in hand)
- Want to be a killer, convince someone to assist you and start your killing spree.

#19 Main Forum » Santan was my mom and she was awesome!! » 2018-05-08 02:51:39

Replies: 3

I was birthed by a chatty mom.

She said she was a new player, that she just got the game and pressed play smile

I knew it was Her right then and there. She scrambled and put on a backpack and a wool sweater.

She raised me perfectly, she responded to F better than any player I've seen. She kept talking to me the whole time.

Then she said "NAME BABY", took me in her arms and said : "YOU ARE JOHN"

She was so playful and fun.

She asked me what she needs to do, told me to show her.

I showed her how to pick carrots. She excelled at it!
I know she knew how to, she just wanted me to start picking before she did!

She found a basket of pies and said "MAGIC PIE SAVE ME" then put it in her backpack. Just one single pie, like a pro.

She then found a Horse and cart we had, she got on it and made a few laps all within my screen view while shouting "So fast!" "Magic Horse" smile

She then gave it to me and said: "Here you take it" but I was too young and the horse ran away, we then had to follow it around, all the while with her shouting: "No HORSE" "COME BACK HORSE", until SHE got it back. She followed me to a fence, and when I said "Fence" she tied it there successfully!

Once I had the vocabulary, I said "YOU " ARE" "SANTAN". Her response: "SANTAN WHO" "NOT ME NO" smile

She was contributing to the colony, while saying all sorts of fun stuff.

Every time she gets a baby she would exclaim stuff like: "BABY" "HOW DID I GET A BABY" "FEED BABY" "GO AWAY BABY" "TAKE CARE OF BABY" "COME HERE BABY" "AGHHH BABY" and always responding to F; Effectively raising 2 kids till they had hair!

We were next to the carrot farm when she said something I couldn't read and then died. Maybe She wanted it that way.

We spent around 5 or 6 minutes together, and I stayed with her the whole time. I felt genuinely sad to see her die, and stayed by her side until I starved and died.

That was one of my most memorable experiences playing this game!

I once raised the 666 bot and even posted my experience on this forum:

And tonight I was Her son. I feel unbelievably lucky and I look forward to building a colony from scratch with Her someday.

Sorry for all the !s and the smile s that's not usually my thing, but I really get immersed in this game and this experience was out of this world; otherwise what's the point really?

#20 Re: Main Forum » I am very dissappointed in what this game has become » 2018-05-07 21:36:55

Aurora Aurora wrote:

Enough said. I wont be returning to the main server anytime soon.

Sad to see you go Aurora.

Haven't played on main server for more than a week now myself.

No one replies to your hi anymore, people fight over backpacks, children have 4 pies in backpack...

Not surprised tho, not even disappointed really, In a game mimicking real life, why would it be any different?
In fact with anonymity and infinite lives, I expected it to be worse really.

Now I am more interested in checking on this community from time to time, reading about their stories and experiences. The first page used to be filled with amusing and happy posts, now it's more about sadness and struggles.

Jason is learning first hand how impossible God's work is (God = creator in myths)

I even posted something about that recently, comparing his Apocalypse attempt to a worse version of The great flood, and his Karma idea to a worse version of Heaven and Hell. lol

I'll add something here that I didn't mention there tho. One of the first things He discovered was that humans with abundance and riches get bored and reek havoc all around His world. So he created decay. This is an analogy to kicking Adam and Eve from heaven and telling them they would need to work a lot harder now.

I take those mythological stories as wisdom collected through the ages, telling the stories of failed Gods who attempted to create a perfect and fair world to no avail. Tales of Gods filled with anger caused by failure after the next.

Jason will learn that someday as well. And in the meantime we have to live in the dark ages of reason and enlightenment.

Hope to read more of your stories again.

In the meantime cherish the people around you irl that earned your trust and contributed to your development and happiness. And thank them for not being griefers smile

PS: This is not a rant, in fact I'm writing this with a smile of amusement on my face, and I hope you read it with one as well

#21 Main Forum » A look at Jason's performance as a God so far » 2018-05-07 13:17:45

Replies: 22

I've witnessed a God creating an Apocalypse which was a worse version of The Great Flood since not even an Arc could save you from what someone else did a billion miles away.

Then He promised us he won't do it again leaving monuments randomly scattered around the world as a reminder and a symbol for that promise.
Might as well have been rainbows lel.

Then He discovered that humans with abundance and riches get bored and reek havoc all around His perfect world. So he created decay. And kicked his creation out of Heaven, the land of infinite riches and abundance into a world of constant struggle and tedium.

Now I see Him considering a "Karma system" which is a much worse version of heaven and hell. Since innocent and guilty are equal in it's eyes, and it punishes VICTIMS of murder. Wow that should work for sure.

If Karma delivers what it sets out to achieve, it promises of a hell where murder victims will in fact end up on the same empty server with their killers. Living in eternal torment on the hands of the devils and demons and may even be pushed further down to lower levels of hell again and again, until the Devil (who got them there) gets bored and calls it a day then comes back the next day just like everybody else. Seriously.

Heaven = Server 1. The land of abundance, peace and prosperity. Such a short sighted and wrong view, since the most effective form of griefing would be rampant there, from entrance blocking to soil and milkweed and trees destruction. FAIL.

Hell = server 15. Where killers go.... wait for it... to find their victims! Who are now poorer and more defenseless against them. Until they get bored and log out for the day, coming back tomorrow to heaven. Gigantic FAIL.

OHOL the experiment intended for us mortal players, is now becoming a test for its Creator's ability to play that role better than what every mythology and religion tried and failed at doing. Lol, good luck.

While mortals are doing a good  job, building colonies and living a life of both hardship and joy (what that game is all about), God's still trying to figure out that Right and Wrong are impossible to distinguish from one another, and that any Judgment system will become a tyranny.

I take those mythological stories as wisdom collected through the ages, telling the stories of failed Gods who attempted to create a perfect and fair world to no avail.
Tales of Gods filled with anger and revenge caused by failure after the next.

Jason will learn that someday as well. And in the meantime we have to live in the dark ages of reason and enlightenment.

Good luck God, may you discover that the best thing you can do for this world is to stop tweaking with Judgement ideas and just create more abundance and possibility for prosperity. You are much better at that anyway.

#22 Re: Main Forum » My idea about being unable to be reborn into your lineage. » 2018-05-07 13:06:52

If getting killed punishes you, then it's not about griefing anymore, this is a PVP game now.
If getting killed gets you on a lower ranking server, this is a PVP game now.
If however you have 1 HP, It's a stupid PVP game. And I'd rather play a fair and balanced one like LOL or HOTS.

If not dying of old age punishes you, why volunteer to cross the desert and find more seeds? Why care for any child and put yourself at risk? Why sacrifice yourself when you have 3 mn to live and see a food shortage with 1 fertile women remaining? (As you should) Why even fight the girefer and not go for another green biome and forage for a while, waiting for someone else to try to deal with problem and then come back?
And then you realize that killing someone doesn't reward you, but getting killed punishes you; So it's a Lose or Nothing situation.

Murder right now is the least effective form of griefing, implement the "karma" system, and now it's THE MOST SATISFYING ONE: Stab someone, watch them rage while dying, and know they are banned for 2 hours from returning to the colony they built. A griefer's wish come true.

Oh and best of all, grief as much as you can, and if people are unto you, just start running in any direction, starve yourself, come back = Karma avoided.

Karma will punish 3 innocents for every griefer.
Karma is the worst idea I've heard so far.


#23 Re: Main Forum » VirtualBox image with Ubuntu and OHOL test server pre-installed » 2018-05-03 14:46:45

Babsy wrote:

@Roolstar Thanks again for your link and additional help. I managed to resize both.

My problem is as before, after updating the server and the client, that when I login to my existing map, many items are not what they are supposed to be. For instance sheep show as a saw instead. Pies are scattered everywhere and I can't eat from them.

What is causing this? Can this be fixed?

I ran:
then rebooted and restarted.

This has happened to me once when my client was not at the latest version. But from what you said, it doesn't seem to be your case.

My solution was to run the game on the official public servers at least once, once I hit login, I had a "downloading" screen. Took a couple of seconds) to finish, then I quit and connected back to my private server. Everything went back to normal.

Not sure what else could cause this, but also know that sometimes the servers are updated before the client, so maybe it will get updated if you run it again if the patch wasn't roll out when you did earlier.

Still, I'm anticipating a day where we the update would be drastic enough to make me have to wipe the old map and my progress, and restart from scratch.

Sorry couldn't help more.

#25 Re: Main Forum » Servers as a karma ladder? » 2018-05-03 13:54:48

jasonrohrer wrote:

Thinking more about the problem of griefers.

Part of the problem is that, even if you kill them, they can keep coming back at you.  They can bypass server assignment and keep coming back to your server, and they can baby suicide until they are born in your village again.

Killing them slows them down, but not by enough.  Let's assume, though, that this will always happen to a griefer in the end.  They will always be discovered and killed (assuming that I keep tweaking things to make that more and more likely, if it's not likely enough already).

One problem with any further punishment of "murder victims" is that it hurts the good guys along with the bad.  A griefer may be running around killing people, and we don't want those people being punished any further.

However, I realized that if we compare the average griefer to the average non-griefer, assuming that non-griefers outnumber griefers, then the average griefer's life will be way more likely to end in murder than the average non-griefer.  Essentially, the griefer's life will always end in murder, while the average non-griefer will be the unfortunate victim every once in a while.

So, some kind of further consequence for dying by murder might actually be okay.  Someone really didn't like you... that should mean something.  Even if it was a legit dispute between two benevolent monarchs, the one that was guillotined is special.

I already have 15 servers running.  If I had mandatory server assignments, at least for the top half of the servers (so that there still are some free servers around for people who want to play solo or collab on voice or whatever), then those servers could be a kind of karmic ladder.

Going down one rung is pretty obvious:  if your life on the previous rung ends in murder, down you go.

Climbing back up though?  My initial thought is that you climb up if you live to old age on the previous rung.  That would definitely slow griefers down.  A full hour down there, at least, before they can get reborn in your village.

It also seems like it would be a harsh purgatory for the innocent victim of murder, but maybe it's okay and kinda fitting.

But take this average case: a griefer kills 3 people than gets killed.
They all spawn in a "lower" server together, now they have a very high chance to give birth to the griefer.
What do you think that griefer would do once old enough? So he kills and gets killed again, and again.

In fact his griefing is even worse now since he's technically burrying his victims in lower and more deserted servers, for ever.
Why implement torture as a feature??

Give it some time and you'd have 10 victims stuck with 10 griefers on the lowest server. While the highest server is a land filled with blissful colonies and abundance?
Are you literally creating heaven and hell??? "cause if you are, well people have come up with much better systems than yours, while equally dangerous. inherently ignorant and fundamentally flawed.

And even worse, I was an innocent victim, but cursed the same as my perpetrator!! "but maybe it's okay and kinda fitting"?

jasonrohrer wrote:

Another idea is that the ladder could be used for everything, not just murder.  Living until old age lets you go up, dying young sends you back down.  If you're on server1 and you have a baby, you know that baby is special.  The advanced players are already making up their own filters to decide which babies to keep.  The idea of having a "city of gold" at the top of the ladder where only the best players ascend is compelling.

However, it would also spread players out, trap new players in purgatory levels filled with griefers, etc.  Maybe all new players start on server1 for their first game and fall down from there.  You get a chance to play with the best and stay with the best, assuming that you can listen to advice, learn quickly, and contribute without dying.

Effectively implementing a ranking system in OHOL is a very very very bad idea.
Cooperation is already a strain sometimes, and now you have a grandma spending her last 10 mn at the farm eating carrots 'cause why would she risk a nope rope encounter?

And more importantly, sacrificing yourself is a strategic decision that wise players would make in some situations. I see my hunger bar size at 7 bars, a lack of berries, only one seed plot and 2 rooting carrots in a colony of 3 women and 1 baby? I get my gear off and start running east until death. They stand a much better chance now. Doesn't have to be that specific of a situation but happens more than you might think. I've even seen streamers doing that. And nobody wants to die from old age as much as a streamer with live viewers, trust me.

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