Village math

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-02 08:27:29

So ive been getting into making all sorts of foods for my villages and wanted to know a couple of things that may or may not require math, questions go as followed:

1. how many people on average live in a village?

2. how often does one person in that village need to eat food?

3. Whats the average amount of food bars a person will need for their life or atleast a fraction of it?

4. how fast does a person lose hunger in a extremley cold/hot situation?

Tarr · 2019-01-02 08:32:19

From betame

Perfect temperature  22.0 sec/pip             164 pip/hr
Worst temperature     2.0 sec/pip            1800 pip/hr

Naked in Neutral      4.8 sec/pip             746 pip/hr
Insulation 67.3%      8.3 sec/pip             433 pip/hr
Coat & all furs      12.4 sec/pip (ins 86.75) 291 pip/hr
Clothed + rug        18.0 sec/pip (ins 100%)  200 pip/hr

Naked in Desert.      8.3 sec/pip             433 pip/hr
Insulation 60.1%      4.8 sec/pip             746 pip/hr
Insulation 79.2%+     2.0 sec/pip            1800 pip/hr

Naked in Ice          2.5 sec/pip            1437 pip/hr
Insulation 80.5%      8.3 sec/pip             433 pip/hr
Coat & all furs      10.0 sec/pip (ins 86.75) 360 pip/hr
Clothed + rug        15.6 sec/pip (in 100%)   231 pip/hr

Naked in Jungle      20.3 sec/pip             178 pip/hr
Insulation 46.5%     22.0 sec/pip             164 pip/hr
Insulation 65.2%     20.3 sec/pip             178 pip/hr
Clothed + rug        10.0 sec/pip (ins 100%)  360 pip/hr

Last edited by Tarr (2019-01-02 08:32:47)

hmrka · 2019-01-02 10:44:09

Im not complaining but why is everyone on this forum so smart and making calculations and math stuff???

also good to know. thought that in perfect temp you lose one bar in like thirty secs, now I see its a bit less.

pein · 2019-01-02 12:45:34

i often see that a village with 10 girls will collapse in the next 15 minutes
hard to coordinate between females and not always the food, the distraction people do to each other, the overcrowded camp makes some people go explore and never come back
hard to say how much is an average, depends on server, s1 is pumping babies all the time, depends on town level, has it an axe? it wont be more than average 6 people survive, well, babies will be plenty but their mortality is very high

once all tools done, around 8-12 is a healthy number
i would say averages out on 16, as i often see around 4-5 fertile females, 6 girl kids, and possibly almost same amount of boiz, they still let lot of boiz to die, that's just too much to handle on cooperation and coordination, and higher chances of murders, distractions, etc.
with each female 6-8-12 kids, around 40% of them lives to 20 at least
you might need to look at family trees, generation gap can be huge, last kid of a 39 old player can have kid at 39 while lot of girls just have one kid who has another but then dies at 15-18
the numbers might be higher than 20 at times including kids, but i doubt the effective population can be higher than 16, also big cities are like 2 cities inside one

most cities still heavily rely on berries and people are underclothed, i think the average insulation and temperature can be around 10sec/pip
with 2-3 veterans in each 15 people, where no one cares about temperature, can be quite low, also don't forget overeating, even 1 bar on each berry will be 20% loss on food

twice as fast to normal (if just runs trough it can be even beneficial)
perfect temp is like 8x better than extreme

yeah this number are completely subjective, but as far as game experience tells me, you don't get more than 1-2 people who focus on important stuff, if i don't do it, they don't fix issues under 30 minutes, or don't even realize the issue until is late
most people have the clothes they are given and food variety comes in later, and its not a cooperation, one person makes the stuff and tries to show. others. i seen people chew trough the 7 cacti i brought under 1 minute and starve before i show where to get more

the amount of bones you see in villages with no or minimum desert/jungle is 3-4 times more (i guess now everyone is lineage banned? so might be less)
even if temperature saves only a bit of time on eating, the survival chance is exponentially higher in mid jungle/desert edge, planting berries on this locations enforces people to eat there and therefore you can push the average higher

highly dependent on player skill, map
that's why jungle cities are so good if people can figure out how to make it liveable

Starknight_One · 2019-01-02 13:17:26

hmrka wrote:

Im not complaining but why is everyone on this forum so smart and making calculations and math stuff???
also good to know. thought that in perfect temp you lose one bar in like thirty secs, now I see its a bit less.

Forum-goers tend to be power-users, for the most part. Analysis of game conditions improves survival techniques, which is why we do it.

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-02 16:26:43

Berry farming on warm tiles is the single factor most responsible for determining whether a civilization collapses or not (besides global infertility). The berry farm is the primary food source for children, elderly, noobs, roleplayers, mothers, and the occasional productive person caught in a crunch, which means it's the primary food source, period.

It takes a certain amount of labor, expertise, and attention to keep the berry farm going. Besides the basic task of tending the bushes, there's keeping the compost cycle going (itself a complex operation with several interlocking parts), developing water sources, replacing tools, and at the newcomen pump stage collecting wood, making coal, and tending the fire. There are a limited number of people who know how to do these things or even know that they need to be done. Their time and attention is a very scarce resource.

Putting the berry farm on cold tiles instead of warm tiles doubles the rate at which the berries are consumed, which doubles the rate at which all the above activities need to be done, which doubles the labor demand on the productive players. If that demand exceeds the supply, then one or more parts of the berry supply chain get put under pressure. If one of those parts fails, then the berry farm collapses. The resulting famine kills the children and then the town dies.

Note that this analysis does not depend on the size of the berry farm! The size of the farm doesn't (directly) affect how many people it can support! The farm's capacity at any given moment is determined by how many people are devoted to the berry supply chain (basic tending, compost cycle, water source development, etc). The size of the farm merely determines how much buffer you have when the demand outstrips supply before the famine hits. A bigger farm starting to turn brown can serve as a warning to the productive players that the berry cycle has broken down, giving them a chance to fix it before the noob food runs out and the children all die.

Yum and temperature control matter a lot less for productive players. I usually don't bother making clothes for myself. As long as the berry farm is healthy and the compost cycle is working, there will be a vast surplus of food that productive players can draw upon outside of the berry farm. The tempo of the food cycle is determined not by the food demands of the productive players, but by the food demands of the berry farm users.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-02 16:42:51

CrazyEddie wrote:

Berry farming on warm tiles is the single factor most responsible for determining whether a civilization collapses or not (besides global infertility). The berry farm is the primary food source for children, elderly, noobs, roleplayers, mothers, and the occasional productive person caught in a crunch, which means it's the primary food source, period.
It takes a certain amount of labor, expertise, and attention to keep the berry farm going. Besides the basic task of tending the bushes, there's keeping the compost cycle going (itself a complex operation with several interlocking parts), developing water sources, replacing tools, and at the newcomen pump stage collecting wood, making coal, and tending the fire. There are a limited number of people who know how to do these things or even know that they need to be done. Their time and attention is a very scarce resource.
Putting the berry farm on cold tiles instead of warm tiles doubles the rate at which the berries are consumed, which doubles the rate at which all the above activities need to be done, which doubles the labor demand on the productive players. If that demand exceeds the supply, then one or more parts of the berry supply chain get put under pressure. If one of those parts fails, then the berry farm collapses. The resulting famine kills the children and then the town dies.
Note that this analysis does not depend on the size of the berry farm! The size of the farm doesn't (directly) affect how many people it can support! The farm's capacity at any given moment is determined by how many people are devoted to the berry supply chain (basic tending, compost cycle, water source development, etc). The size of the farm merely determines how much buffer you have when the demand outstrips supply before the famine hits. A bigger farm starting to turn brown can serve as a warning to the productive players that the berry cycle has broken down, giving them a chance to fix it before the noob food runs out and the children all die.
Yum and temperature control matter a lot less for productive players. I usually don't bother making clothes for myself. As long as the berry farm is healthy and the compost cycle is working, there will be a vast surplus of food that productive players can draw upon outside of the berry farm. The tempo of the food cycle is determined not by the food demands of the productive players, but by the food demands of the berry farm users.

Thats the problem i got with Jungle villages, they save food by having warm climate, but lose food because noobs run into mosquitos 24/7 so really its just not worth it, maybe if your town bordered on a jungle biome you could set up a farm there but idk people can be pretty accident prone and one false slip will cost you 100+ pips

Glassius · 2019-01-02 23:43:11

Tarr wrote:

Naked in Neutral      4.8 sec/pip             746 pip/hr
Insulation 67.3%      8.3 sec/pip             433 pip/hr
Coat & all furs      12.4 sec/pip (ins 86.75) 291 pip/hr
Clothed + rug        18.0 sec/pip (ins 100%)  200 pip/hr

This values are creating crazy formula with least square aproximation of quadratic function

Would it mean, that at certain added insulation, the hunger would be even stronger than in naked state? I must be missing something!

betame · 2019-01-02 23:55:50

link to OP of this data

Glassius wrote:

Naked in Neutral      4.8 sec/pip             746 pip/hr
Insulation 67.3%      8.3 sec/pip             433 pip/hr
Coat & all furs      12.4 sec/pip (ins 86.75) 291 pip/hr
Clothed + rug        18.0 sec/pip (ins 100%)  200 pip/hr
This values are creating crazy formula with least square aproximation of quadratic function
https://i.imgur.com/C3CHvvW.png
Would it mean, that at certain added insulation, the hunger would be even stronger than in naked state? I must be missing something!

OUTDATED
Basically, the game's heat caculation is complicated because it takes into account all squares within 4-5 of you. And complicated equations are better approximated with higher order polynomials. (or Forier Series)
edit: actually for this, you'd be interpolating based on given values, so splines might give smooth results

I made that data by transcribing the server heat code into Python, and tested a number of cases in game, but I'd welcome other play-testing to prove this data for yourselves.
The following graph was produced from the code output at each step of 5% insulation, and linearly interpolated.
https://i.imgur.com/dGxRquN.png

But Food per Hour is more informative for gameplay
https://i.imgur.com/jaxZhXU.png

Obligatory warning: don't clothe yourself beyond 40% insulation because then mosquitos will be lethal.

Last edited by betame (2019-02-17 03:59:33)

MultiLife · 2019-01-03 00:25:24

CrazyEddie wrote:

Berry farming on warm tiles is the single factor most responsible for determining whether a civilization collapses or not (besides global infertility).
...
Putting the berry farm on cold tiles instead of warm tiles doubles the rate at which the berries are consumed, which doubles the rate at which all the above activities need to be done, which doubles the labor demand on the productive players. If that demand exceeds the supply, then one or more parts of the berry supply chain get put under pressure. If one of those parts fails, then the berry farm collapses. The resulting famine kills the children and then the town dies.

I was thinking about this when pein mentioned the swamp berries in the other thread. By placing a berry farm on cold tiles, you basically set the working speed to x2 for people in the village. No wonder it discourages above average players and they run or /die away.

I was in a tiny camp today, and questioned my non-Eve mom why she lives in the cold biome (green, and the neighboring swamp had like one pond nearby). She didn't have an answer, and starved in the end along with everyone else who stayed in that cold camp. I left it behind at 28 years - I called it would die out but stayed as long as we had females. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered to try to keep it going. The location was just.. bad. It was odd though as my mom asked if I am new and smithed fast, yet she died mid-life and stayed in a cold dry spot with no reason to even camp there. I expected her to know how bad the spot was with that level of skill she had in her tasks, but I guess the swamp berry field spoke for itself...

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-03 01:00:57

I'll stay in bad camps just to help the other players have a good experience; besides, the challenge can be fun. Occasionally I'll give up on camps which are hopeless to the point of pure frustration.

Tarr · 2019-01-03 01:07:01

MultiLife wrote:

I was thinking about this when pein mentioned the swamp berries in the other thread. By placing a berry farm on cold tiles, you basically set the working speed to x2 for people in the village. No wonder it discourages above average players and they run or /die away.
I was in a tiny camp today, and questioned my non-Eve mom why she lives in the cold biome (green, and the neighboring swamp had like one pond nearby). She didn't have an answer, and starved in the end along with everyone else who stayed in that cold camp. I left it behind at 28 years - I called it would die out but stayed as long as we had females. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered to try to keep it going. The location was just.. bad. It was odd though as my mom asked if I am new and smithed fast, yet she died mid-life and stayed in a cold dry spot with no reason to even camp there. I expected her to know how bad the spot was with that level of skill she had in her tasks, but I guess the swamp berry field spoke for itself...

If you are the wrong gender (aka male) then if the spot is bad you should either /die or normally die. Spots like the one you described are 100% destined to fail. While you can survive off one pond if you rush the newcomen pump most villages aren't going to have players good enough to rush it (or at least players who stay.) Your priorities end up getting shifted from rushing sheep for compost to rushing sheep for clothing. Just to get on par with naked in the desert you either need loincloth, shoes, straw hat, and mouflon hide which is four thread per person or sealskin coat, wolf hat, plus a loincloth or two shoes which is still three thread and unsustainable long term. That ends up being 6-8 milkweed per person needed just to match or barely edge out a desert which if you've ever done by picking wilds milkweed is a pain.

Basically there are just some lives you Should /die out of.

pein · 2019-01-03 03:34:38

you can plant one berry bush in a good spot with a skewer and a bowl, then later in 12 min extend it and get 2-3 baby girls there

MultiLife · 2019-01-03 18:20:33

Tarr wrote:

If you are the wrong gender (aka male) then if the spot is bad you should either /die or normally die. Spots like the one you described are 100% destined to fail. While you can survive off one pond if you rush the newcomen pump most villages aren't going to have players good enough to rush it (or at least players who stay.) Your priorities end up getting shifted from rushing sheep for compost to rushing sheep for clothing. Just to get on par with naked in the desert you either need loincloth, shoes, straw hat, and mouflon hide which is four thread per person or sealskin coat, wolf hat, plus a loincloth or two shoes which is still three thread and unsustainable long term. That ends up being 6-8 milkweed per person needed just to match or barely edge out a desert which if you've ever done by picking wilds milkweed is a pain.
Basically there are just some lives you Should /die out of.

Yeah. Here's the camp in question:

There were two more ponds east but yeahh some places are not meant to make it. Honestly, who even wants to work with x2 speed (cold camps with cold farms) with a high probability of "last girl starvation syndrome" due to cold? Why struggle there when you can go and help better placed towns? Not all of them will survive, and I'd rather see well located camps survive instead of these 'noob trap' camps. Trap as in; newbies stay as they don't know better, in turn surrounding you, the one veteran who stayed, with too many of them, then they starve, and the place dies anyways as you were never meant to carry it in the first place. I like to take responsibility to bring up camps I am born to, but why do that in these places, nobody wants to work x2 speed in cold camps anyways so they should be let go and left behind.
I kinda hoped one of the girls would run away to make a camp with me, but all died so quick. When I left the place, I was hoping to bump into someone, Eve or a town, and live my life in another place. I stumbled over many abandoned places and nearly completely decayed towns, but no other soul was found on my lone run. :'( Poor Apollo boi.

Once I was a gal in total green camp, and the water was far. I started to scout when I could carry food and found a nice place about four screens north (max zoom out with AWBZ) - we moved (everyone of us!) and established an awesome camp in a zillion times better place.

CrazyEddie wrote:

I'll stay in bad camps just to help the other players have a good experience; besides, the challenge can be fun. Occasionally I'll give up on camps which are hopeless to the point of pure frustration.

Yeah I did stay here too, until the girls died out. The challenge is fun if you can relocate things with not too much effort, otherwise it goes to the "pure frustration" route, working your butt off without the reward of saving a place in the end. As a male, my time would be better off contributing to better located towns than try to keep one lineage from falling under. I was quite demotivated through this life as I saw the issues the place had. I rushed bow and killed all boars and after that all girls had gone and died (to cold, there were berries - I never even ate from them). Can't say I'll eagerly await for round 2 of this kind of experience, so I may slip to /die command from here on out... The chance of bumping to others is just too darn slim for our lonely males.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-01-02 08:27:29

Village math

#2 2019-01-02 08:32:19

Re: Village math

#3 2019-01-02 10:44:09

Re: Village math

#4 2019-01-02 12:45:34

Re: Village math

#5 2019-01-02 13:17:26

Re: Village math

#6 2019-01-02 16:26:43

Re: Village math

#7 2019-01-02 16:42:51

Re: Village math

#8 2019-01-02 23:43:11

Re: Village math

#9 2019-01-02 23:55:50

Re: Village math

#10 2019-01-03 00:25:24

Re: Village math

#11 2019-01-03 01:00:57

Re: Village math

#12 2019-01-03 01:07:01

Re: Village math

#13 2019-01-03 03:34:38

Re: Village math

#14 2019-01-03 18:20:33

Re: Village math

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