so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

breezeknight · 2018-05-21 12:42:21

killing in OHOL is EXTREMELY easy & if done cleverly then it goes completely unpunished & often even unnoticed by anybody else than the victim
& you could be that one unnoticed victim

killing in OHOL doesn't need any reason, everybody can easily & without consequences become a killer & murderer

remember this a multiplayer game, not singleplayer,
which means players who murdered you will respawn into your gameplay again !!! & you won't even know

OHOL in its current state is biased
it supports killers, it lets the victims completely helpless
you as victim have NO OPTIONS TO PROTECT YOURSELF, NO OPTIONS TO PREVENT BEING MURDERED, NO OPTIONS TO CURE INJURY !!!
the one & only option you have as a peaceful player is TO RUN AWAY

my advice from my experiences as being murdered on different occasions & in different situations :

1. if you see someone with a knife or bow/arrow in hand, even if this person looks like a guard - MOVE AWAY & watch out carefully, it might be a killer !!!
2. if someone asks you to give them the knife or bow/arrow you were entrusted with - don't do it, unless you are 100% sure it's a hunter & they support the town by hunting animals (this case happened once for me, so it's rather seldom, usually you are just being taken for a ride & will end up dead, this happened to me also)
3. if someone with a knife or arrows in backpack asks you to come with - watch out, it could be a trick & you might end up dead !
4. if someone asks you to come with, just like that - watch out, it could be a trick to lure you to a place where they have a secret murder weapon stash !
5. if you see bows, arrows, knives lying around in a settlement - be cautious, the peace is probably just temporary & you could end up murdered !
6. if murder or killing took place in the settlement (bloody corpse) - be EXTREMELY cautious, if it happened before, it WILL happen again & you could be the next victim !!!
7. if murder takes place in the present, before your eyes (a red text victim) - RUN !!! & don't return, you WILL be the next victim !!!
8. don't trust nobody completely, if someone appeared to be peaceful till now could be just a ploy to do it at whim & kill everybody in one swoop after lulled into false security
9. don't play as female baby - your very own offspring could be your killer !!! (happened in several different situations)
10. if you play as Eve - abandon all your babies - your very own offspring could be your killer !!! (happened to me already)
11. play only as male baby - at least you won't be in danger of being murdered by your own kid & this way you make 100% sure, you won't be producing killers
ok - i won't be playing any family anymore until gameplay improves

alternatives :
1. become killer yourself & make the killing to your gameplay, either as murderer or as self righteous killer to avenge murders
2. become a griefer & avenge all your bad experiences by punishing everybody at your whim
3. become a killer & griefer to make this issue burning brighter in OHOL, until the bias gets evened out by Jason
4. play only on private servers with murder disabled

& btw
NOBODY CARES in OHOL if you were killed with a reason or at whim or because someone pointed a killer towards you as being the killer yourself (yeah, can happen)
so watch out !

- - -

Aname · 2018-05-21 13:19:46

you know if you kill the killer people are legit gonna kill you and the person who killed you get killed bcuz he killed you and so on.

that legit happened one time. idk why tho maybe its just an excuse to kill one person for fun idk

breezeknight · 2018-05-21 13:28:39

yeah, what you describe is covered under the "alternatives"

since it's not my type of gaming fun, so i don't do it, i can imagine though that some players like it that way
those are probably who then are strictly against any form of nerfing murder

i killed so far once, weeks ago, even before the apocalypse update, if i recall correctly
it was in a town where i was in a previous life the founder Eve of the family & was reborn there later & that's when murder happened to a young mother taking care of two babies
i wasn't killed afterwards, people have congratulated that i managed to kill the killer, but it was a pretty obvious situation at that time

meantime murder got quite out of hand, i feel like there doesn't need to be any reason to get killed, what players describe tells exactly those stories, mostly no reason or some triffles or even pure misunderstandings

few days ago i tested an alternative gameplay, i was born as male baby & decided not to say anything, the mother got increasingly concerned, started probably even to panic, ran around & asked questions, which i answered with silence - maybe she would have even go as far as kill me, out of fear i might be the next killer, who knows, i ended that experiment by suiciding, didn't want to cause more grief to the mother than i already did
but what this tells is, that an actual killer has an easy way to smooth into the lives of other players, just by being nice & responsive

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2018-05-21 13:40:26)

pein · 2018-05-21 19:14:46

best to not stand near anyone

i could say not to stay in bow range or not stand close to guys with knife

but truth is, they can kill you with no reason, they walk near you, move diagonally to him/her, helps with speech bubles too
once was paranoid after beeing chased, so dodged the guy this way, he took the knife out of pack, and stabbed, but i was gone before he even had a chance to be near me, then i took an arrow and shot him a few mins later. if you got a killer, dont care about milkweed, just make the bow asap, kill him

hide all arrows, file, most bows, or lock em up, especially if you are the smith/sheperd
people kill because they are bored

especially dont trust people with backpack and the brown chick as her hair is very big, covers the knife

Trick · 2018-05-22 00:22:18

breezeknight wrote:

killing in OHOL is EXTREMELY easy & if done cleverly then it goes completely unpunished & often even unnoticed by anybody else than the victim
& you could be that one unnoticed victim
killing in OHOL doesn't need any reason, everybody can easily & without consequences become a killer & murderer
remember this a multiplayer game, not singleplayer,
which means players who murdered you will respawn into your gameplay again !!! & you won't even know
OHOL in its current state is biased
it supports killers, it lets the victims completely helpless
you as victim have NO OPTIONS TO PROTECT YOURSELF, NO OPTIONS TO PREVENT BEING MURDERED, NO OPTIONS TO CURE INJURY !!!
the one & only option you have as a peaceful player is TO RUN AWAY

my advice from my experiences as being murdered on different occasions & in different situations :
1. if you see someone with a knife or bow/arrow in hand, even if this person looks like a guard - MOVE AWAY & watch out carefully, it might be a killer !!!
2. if someone asks you to give them the knife or bow/arrow you were entrusted with - don't do it, unless you are 100% sure it's a hunter & they support the town by hunting animals (this case happened once for me, so it's rather seldom, usually you are just being taken for a ride & will end up dead, this happened to me also)
3. if someone with a knife or arrows in backpack asks you to come with - watch out, it could be a trick & you might end up dead !
4. if someone asks you to come with, just like that - watch out, it could be a trick to lure you to a place where they have a secret murder weapon stash !
5. if you see bows, arrows, knives lying around in a settlement - be cautious, the peace is probably just temporary & you could end up murdered !
6. if murder or killing took place in the settlement (bloody corpse) - be EXTREMELY cautious, if it happened before, it WILL happen again & you could be the next victim !!!
7. if murder takes place in the present, before your eyes (a red text victim) - RUN !!! & don't return, you WILL be the next victim !!!
8. don't trust nobody completely, if someone appeared to be peaceful till now could be just a ploy to do it at whim & kill everybody in one swoop after lulled into false security
9. don't play as female baby - your very own offspring could be your killer !!! (happened in several different situations)
10. if you play as Eve - abandon all your babies - your very own offspring could be your killer !!! (happened to me already)
11. play only as male baby - at least you won't be in danger of being murdered by your own kid & this way you make 100% sure, you won't be producing killers
ok - i won't be playing any family anymore until gameplay improves
alternatives :
1. become killer yourself & make the killing to your gameplay, either as murderer or as self righteous killer to avenge murders
2. become a griefer & avenge all your bad experiences by punishing everybody at your whim
3. become a killer & griefer to make this issue burning brighter in OHOL, until the bias gets evened out by Jason
4. play only on private servers with murder disabled

& btw
NOBODY CARES in OHOL if you were killed with a reason or at whim or because someone pointed a killer towards you as being the killer yourself (yeah, can happen)
so watch out !

- - -

This is so frustrating. I played a game where I had made a ton of baskets and other trinkets really far from home (we didn't have tule anywhere nearby and desperately needed them). I came back and asked someone to come with me to help bring stuff back, and everyone refused to come because they thought I was trying to lure them. We had people standing around being useless, and I was trudging back and forth trying to bring shit for the town. I ended up dying by myself to a snake, and a bunch of the stuff probably just stayed there and rotted.

The murdering thing is really screwing up the ability/willingness of cooperative gameplay, and I find it highly aggravating.

Aname · 2018-05-22 07:08:50

Sometimes people just ask for a murderer.

i big villages i Always see like 10 bows on the ground. sometimes even knifes on the ground.
I dont get why people just let them on the ground. just hold the knife with you and pass it on too someone who is somewhat loyal.
and u dont need more then 1 bow so why are there like 10 bows.

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 08:59:05

@Aname
they let them on the ground because after an hour every security measure taken is already broken
& there are indeed some players who just are not in the least interested in anything regarding killing

i've been to some towns still surrounded by bears, if one just leaves the main area there are bears roaming, so i've seen bows around the town, literally, several
because the towns are actually surrounded by bears, which then from time to time enter the town
one can carry arrows, if one is lucky enough to have a big enough backpack to carry 3 arrows that is, but players not interested in killing each other have better things to do than holding a bow all the time & munching pies or carrots made by others

few days ago i was in a smalish town where a knife was "hidden" in an open box, i opened it, closed it again & that was that
i am often asked to guard knives, i do it only reluctantly, everything surrounding killing people is JUST NOT WHAT I WANT TO PLAY, like, at all
actually i just don't want to be even bothered with this kind of gameplay scenarios, in OHOL i want to play development of civilization & not just another kill & get killed stupid superficial waste of my time, just another among the literall flood of games about that

then another experience from a game i played lately was a town in development with some steel tools there but not all, there was no saw & no chisel, but there was a blank file
i had the time to go search for a goose, to make an actually working file, to make the chisel & the saw then but then i knew, it would end up again with knives, so i just didn't do it
murder is just too easy, the victim ends up being punished & not the killer, so why should i participate ? this is not the gameplay i want, not at all

this matter just turns me off completely to even play the game, i am just tired of it
others are tired of farming carrots, i am tired of being bothered with killing people - simple

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2018-05-22 09:00:03)

Aname · 2018-05-22 09:08:25

]

But legit every town where there are bows everywhere are the towns who dont even need a bow.

or there are knives everywhere and we dont have a sheep.

or people are trying to kill me bcuz i made a knife for sheep and they think i am a killer ( they prob just seek an excuse to kill me but k)

or people who are making a knife and i say why u making knife and they answer with for the sheeps. the funny part it most of the time there are no sheeps. then i steal there knife and i am the enemy all of the sudden.

The funny thing is that people are fucking dumb and give the killer no punishment like i was a killer one time. i killed 3 people and i just came back in the village and people legit didnt care that i killed 3 people. just bcuz i said that she was a griefer but noone saw that she griefed or did anything wrong so the problem is just everyone.

that proves that killing mechanic in the game is total shit. people cant trust each other bcuz they dont know if they speak the truth.

and killer got way too many advantages. that just sucks

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 09:08:28

@Trick

Trick wrote:

This is so frustrating. I played a game where I had made a ton of baskets and other trinkets really far from home (we didn't have tule anywhere nearby and desperately needed them). I came back and asked someone to come with me to help bring stuff back, and everyone refused to come because they thought I was trying to lure them. We had people standing around being useless, and I was trudging back and forth trying to bring shit for the town. I ended up dying by myself to a snake, and a bunch of the stuff probably just stayed there and rotted.
The murdering thing is really screwing up the ability/willingness of cooperative gameplay, and I find it highly aggravating.

yes, absolutely
the easy unpunished unprevented unprotected murder is taking toll on the players actually wanting to play a game about parenting & civilization
i met players too who just refuse to come or who just stay away from, shun literally from anything that could be a trap or betrayal & could lead to a dangerous situation
the paranoia & distrust has spread & i understand this completely, as stated in my OP, i even suggest it because this is the only way one can actually protect oneself from being a helpless target

this easy killing is kiling the game iteself
i hope Jason can come up with a good solution, & soon

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 09:24:23

@Aname

Aname wrote:

...
and killer got way too many advantages. that just sucks

not too many
a killer has ALL advantages if that's the gameplay that particular player wants
while a peaceful player has nearly NO options - run away - that's it, that's the only option

Aname · 2018-05-22 10:08:50

breezeknight wrote:

@Aname
Aname wrote:
...
and killer got way too many advantages. that just sucks
not too many
a killer has ALL advantages if that's the gameplay that particular player wants
while a peaceful player has nearly NO options - run away - that's it, that's the only option

No Victims are with a group. killer is most of the time alone.

the killer kills maybe 2 people. and then he gets killed by one of the townies.

so a peaceful player has to work together to kill the killer.

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 10:27:14

Aname wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
@Aname
Aname wrote:
...
and killer got way too many advantages. that just sucks
not too many
a killer has ALL advantages if that's the gameplay that particular player wants
while a peaceful player has nearly NO options - run away - that's it, that's the only option
No Victims are with a group. killer is most of the time alone.
the killer kills maybe 2 people. and then he gets killed by one of the townies.
so a peaceful player has to work together to kill the killer.

nope, sorry

there are still some players left, like me, who don't kill, not even to avenge
those are peaceful players

i run away, i remove myself in case of murder or while an avenging scenario takes place

players who kill are still killers - let's face that

i am not against killing in games, i am not against killing & murder in OHOL
i don't want murder to get removed from the game, that's why i don't play on 2HOL
i just want some options for the victims - the actual VICTIMS, those who actually get killed
options for the victim WHITHIN THE VERY SAME RUN where other player is after them to kill them !!! other options than to run away

options like medicine, preventive measures, like a repellent or a hide, or a change to the easiness to kill, like kill people with two strikes instead of just one, or a karma system, which rewards peaceful cooperation with positive karma & burdens killing with consequences in form of negative karma - something better than to run away or become killer myself

revenge & avenging a kill, a murder is not peaceful & it does absolutely nothing for the life wasted while killed

- - -

Aname · 2018-05-22 12:07:24

breezeknight wrote:

Aname wrote:
breezeknight wrote:
@Aname

not too many
a killer has ALL advantages if that's the gameplay that particular player wants
while a peaceful player has nearly NO options - run away - that's it, that's the only option
No Victims are with a group. killer is most of the time alone.
the killer kills maybe 2 people. and then he gets killed by one of the townies.
so a peaceful player has to work together to kill the killer.
nope, sorry
there are still some players left, like me, who don't kill, not even to avenge
those are peaceful players
i run away, i remove myself in case of murder or while an avenging scenario takes place
players who kill are still killers - let's face that
i am not against killing in games, i am not against killing & murder in OHOL
i don't want murder to get removed from the game, that's why i don't play on 2HOL
i just want some options for the victims - the actual VICTIMS, those who actually get killed
options for the victim WHITHIN THE VERY SAME RUN where other player is after them to kill them !!! other options than to run away
options like medicine, preventive measures, like a repellent or a hide, or a change to the easiness to kill, like kill people with two strikes instead of just one, or a karma system, which rewards peaceful cooperation with positive karma & burdens killing with consequences in form of negative karma - something better than to run away or become killer myself
revenge & avenging a kill, a murder is not peaceful & it does absolutely nothing for the life wasted while killed

- - -

Why not killing the killer tho?

if you run away for the killer he prob gonna kill ur whole family. then u have to be Lucky if ur female. bcuz if u male and everyone is dead. then u can just suicide bcuz city is dead anyways.

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 14:14:43

Aname wrote:

Why not killing the killer tho?
if you run away for the killer he prob gonna kill ur whole family. then u have to be Lucky if ur female. bcuz if u male and everyone is dead. then u can just suicide bcuz city is dead anyways.

your logic, really

i could ask the same

why kill the killer ?

& about being female in a game where your very kids can be your killer - did you even read how i am playing this game & why ?

also you apparently just don't understand the purpose of this game - it's not about "your" in game kids, it's not about "your" offsprings, it's about society & your tiny contribution to it,
so even if all of your own ofsprings die, you as player will still spawn somewhere, you know it
after one life is over the next is just a click away & maybe you will be spawned in an area where i was, where i fled to from a city where kilings took place & where i gave you, a stranger a head start with a killn, an oven, a farm, with some rabbits ...
a player doesn't need to be my family that i will help them, but a player can be my family & still kill me,
family in this game is set randomly, it has no genetics & the options for parenting are so far weak

additionally if you kill, you might be killed because you killed & then as you yourself stated killing goes on, so what is so great about killing the killer again ?

for me killing the killer is not a solution, killing is a symptom of an unfinished game

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2018-05-22 14:16:58)

Aname · 2018-05-22 14:40:58

breezeknight wrote:

Aname wrote:
Why not killing the killer tho?
if you run away for the killer he prob gonna kill ur whole family. then u have to be Lucky if ur female. bcuz if u male and everyone is dead. then u can just suicide bcuz city is dead anyways.
your logic, really
i could ask the same
why kill the killer ?
& about being female in a game where your very kids can be your killer - did you even read how i am playing this game & why ?
also you apparently just don't understand the purpose of this game - it's not about "your" in game kids, it's not about "your" offsprings, it's about society & your tiny contribution to it,
so even if all of your own ofsprings die, you as player will still spawn somewhere, you know it
after one life is over the next is just a click away & maybe you will be spawned in an area where i was, where i fled to from a city where kilings took place & where i gave you, a stranger a head start with a killn, an oven, a farm, with some rabbits ...
a player doesn't need to be my family that i will help them, but a player can be my family & still kill me,
family in this game is set randomly, it has no genetics & the options for parenting are so far weak

additionally if you kill, you might be killed because you killed & then as you yourself stated killing goes on, so what is so great about killing the killer again ?
for me killing the killer is not a solution, killing is a symptom of an unfinished game

- - -

u can make a civ without new generations.

so if you let the killer free he prob end youre lineage and he end so ur civ.

but i agree with the most u saying tho

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 14:58:08

Aname wrote:

u can make a civ without new generations.
so if you let the killer free he prob end youre lineage and he end so ur civ.
but i agree with the most u saying tho

in OHOL you can

the new generation might be an Eve
if every player would decide to spawn only as Eve & not to keep babies at all, the civ progress would be still made
family is important IRL, but family is not essential in OHOL, cause we have Eves

& about "my civilization"
OHOL atm is far from being "my civilization", i am not even able to make music

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2018-05-22 14:58:47)

Aname · 2018-05-22 16:14:26

breezeknight wrote:

Aname wrote:
u can make a civ without new generations.
so if you let the killer free he prob end youre lineage and he end so ur civ.
but i agree with the most u saying tho
in OHOL you can
the new generation might be an Eve
if every player would decide to spawn only as Eve & not to keep babies at all, the civ progress would be still made
family is important IRL, but family is not essential in OHOL, cause we have Eves
& about "my civilization"
OHOL atm is far from being "my civilization", i am not even able to make music

- - -

yea but then you have too make a whole new civ thats just boring and repetitive.

but who cares the game is legit repetitive now anyways. we need way more stuff for the tech tree we got almost no items in monthsss

Baker · 2018-05-22 18:01:57

Aname wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
Aname wrote:
u can make a civ without new generations.
so if you let the killer free he prob end youre lineage and he end so ur civ.
but i agree with the most u saying tho
in OHOL you can
the new generation might be an Eve
if every player would decide to spawn only as Eve & not to keep babies at all, the civ progress would be still made
family is important IRL, but family is not essential in OHOL, cause we have Eves
& about "my civilization"
OHOL atm is far from being "my civilization", i am not even able to make music

- - -
yea but then you have too make a whole new civ thats just boring and repetitive.
but who cares the game is legit repetitive now anyways. we need way more stuff for the tech tree we got almost no items in monthsss

Trailer: I'll be adding new things to the game every week

Reality: I'll change old stuff in the game every week.

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 18:37:11

Aname wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
Aname wrote:
u can make a civ without new generations.
so if you let the killer free he prob end youre lineage and he end so ur civ.
but i agree with the most u saying tho
in OHOL you can
the new generation might be an Eve
if every player would decide to spawn only as Eve & not to keep babies at all, the civ progress would be still made
family is important IRL, but family is not essential in OHOL, cause we have Eves
& about "my civilization"
OHOL atm is far from being "my civilization", i am not even able to make music
- - -
yea but then you have too make a whole new civ thats just boring and repetitive.
but who cares the game is legit repetitive now anyways. we need way more stuff for the tech tree we got almost no items in monthsss

maybe we understand something different under civilization

i am not really sure what you mean by "a whole new civ"

longer or more complex tech tree is not civilizaiton how i understand it, it's just longer or more complex tech tree

how i understand civilizaiton is more than just technology & technological progress

Aname · 2018-05-22 18:41:06

breezeknight wrote:

Aname wrote:
breezeknight wrote:
in OHOL you can
the new generation might be an Eve
if every player would decide to spawn only as Eve & not to keep babies at all, the civ progress would be still made
family is important IRL, but family is not essential in OHOL, cause we have Eves
& about "my civilization"
OHOL atm is far from being "my civilization", i am not even able to make music
- - -
yea but then you have too make a whole new civ thats just boring and repetitive.
but who cares the game is legit repetitive now anyways. we need way more stuff for the tech tree we got almost no items in monthsss
maybe we understand something different under civilization
i am not really sure what you mean by "a whole new civ"

longer or more complex tech tree is not civilizaiton how i understand it, it's just longer or more complex tech tree
how i understand civilizaiton is more than just technology & technological progress

yea u mean like music and shit and beer and arena fights or monuments not the shitty bell tower.

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 18:43:15

Aname wrote:

yea u mean like music and shit and beer and arena fights or monuments not the shitty bell tower.

so you dislike the bell tower ... hm

Aname · 2018-05-22 18:44:22

breezeknight wrote:

Aname wrote:
yea u mean like music and shit and beer and arena fights or monuments not the shitty bell tower.
so you dislike the bell tower ... hm

yes wayyy tooooo ugly

Baker · 2018-05-22 19:41:33

If only there was a way to actually capture people in the game, Like instead of having vigilante's just killing people. They could instead catch them and have them explain themselves, People that give dumb reasons can be killed but innocents at least get a chance to talk.

breezeknight · 2018-05-22 21:21:39

& if innocent couldn't explain well because they are maybe not that good at english or just because nobody believes while killers smooth their way through, what then ?

besides, i have really no intention to loose my meager one hour forced to explain while i was already a target, then is running away or even suiciding still a way better option than not only being killed with one click but also now in danger of being captured & interrogated based neither on any law nor authorization or skill

every prolongation of an unpleasant situation is victimizing further instead to help, same goes for those suggestions where a killer first injures a victim, why should a victim suffer at all ? & not the killer reap the consequences of their own doings ? why should this game favour aggressive people & not peaceful ? why should it support violence at all ? what is so civilized about violence ?

Baker · 2018-05-22 21:51:36

breezeknight wrote:

& if innocent couldn't explain well because they are maybe not that good at english or just because nobody believes while killers smooth their way through, what then ?
besides, i have really no intention to loose my meager one hour forced to explain while i was already a target, then is running away or even suiciding still a way better option than not only being killed with one click but also now in danger of being captured & interrogated based neither on any law nor authorization or skill
every prolongation of an unpleasant situation is victimizing further instead to help, same goes for those suggestions where a killer first injures a victim, why should a victim suffer at all ? & not the killer reap the consequences of their own doings ? why should this game favour aggressive people & not peaceful ? why should it support violence at all ? what is so civilized about violence ?

Well in my mind it's still a better alternative to than just being straight out killed, No system is going to be perfect. Your right, Innocents might still get publicly executed and killers might somehow convince the town of there innocence, It happens in the real world too. But I'd to think someone who was truly innocent would have a better chance at surviving, They might even have witnesses to back up their story. Someone that is a hard worker with a good reputation would be believed over the guy that said nothing to anyone and made up some bullshit story without any details.

You're also right about people running away or suiciding, let them. If you DC or flee town then your society won't have to deal with them. Why leave if your innocent but you can't be assed to explain yourself, Could be a good chance for some roleplay. Couldn't this be used as part of the culture that you've longed for, each place could have there own justice system.

You could have the king/queen have the final say or the whole town could vote on it, doesn't have to be a death sentence either. Give them a jail sentence or banish them from the town. You're saying that civilization in this game isn't civilized and you might be right, giving people some sort of trial would a step in the right direction. We're supposed to get more advanced overtime, we should move on from lynch mobs.

Obviously, the police don't just send officers to kill you because they suspect you of a crime.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-05-21 12:42:21

so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#2 2018-05-21 13:19:46

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#3 2018-05-21 13:28:39

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#4 2018-05-21 19:14:46

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#5 2018-05-22 00:22:18

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#6 2018-05-22 07:08:50

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#7 2018-05-22 08:59:05

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#8 2018-05-22 09:08:25

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#9 2018-05-22 09:08:28

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#10 2018-05-22 09:24:23

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#11 2018-05-22 10:08:50

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#12 2018-05-22 10:27:14

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#13 2018-05-22 12:07:24

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#14 2018-05-22 14:14:43

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#15 2018-05-22 14:40:58

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#16 2018-05-22 14:58:08

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#17 2018-05-22 16:14:26

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#18 2018-05-22 18:01:57

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#19 2018-05-22 18:37:11

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#20 2018-05-22 18:41:06

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#21 2018-05-22 18:43:15

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#22 2018-05-22 18:44:22

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#23 2018-05-22 19:41:33

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#24 2018-05-22 21:21:39

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

#25 2018-05-22 21:51:36

Re: so you've been murdered & want to avoid it next time ? here's how

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