Changes for the next Arc run

Tarr · 2019-07-27 01:46:25

BladeWoods wrote:

There's some really toxic people on here that cry and piss about stuff that's not 1/4 as bad as they make it out to be. Things are kinda broken right now but I've been playing and I already think the game is more interesting now than it was before. It's a lot more challenging now, and any update that makes the game more challenging has always had very negative backlash.

I mean there's interesting things at play with the update:

Groups of players vs families can annex areas of the map which means folks who want to just play together aren't trapped to the confines of getting banned to the area.

Limited map (when appropriate size) is definitely interesting as it brings up some new challenges which is definitely different than we're used to.

Biggest issue I think is needing to use wondibles map to scout where you should be setting up towns (until we learn the map a bit better by memory) and the constant baby bombs right now.

I definitely don't think the update is bad but that it's just having a rocky start at the moment.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-27 02:23:46

Yeah, it was destined to have a rocky start.

Probably a rocky few weeks, actually.

This is the biggest single change the game has ever seen.

Spoonwood · 2019-07-27 02:45:50

BlueDiamondAvatar wrote:

You are succeeding wildly at making the best game anyone could ever make on their own.

First off, I think you have many valid points. But, on what you said, I don't agree, and don't know how you can think this. The original civilization game by Sid Meier had one programmer, Sid (other people did some things). I haven't seen the numbers, but I'm fairly sure it shipped more copies, since it sold 850,000 copies and at a time when not as many people played computer games. Rimworld also had a time period before Tynan hired help, and I believe his game ended up better. It also only has three developers at this point in time, so I think it's fair to judge Tynan's ability by that. The original SimCity also ends up a better game, and it might be fair to judge that game as having gotten programmed by Will Wright only, I'm not sure.

The lack of growth in numbers for this game and the number of updates that haven't been good also suggest that Jason isn't all that great even according to that standard.

Also, the whole notion of 'greatest game anyone could make' is entirely without foundation. There does not exist any way to linearly order every meaningful aspect of complex games, because of the complexity of games, so calling any game 'the greatest' ends up likely to ignore some aspect. A game superior in many respects, isn't likely to be superior in every respect, and thus any claim of 'the greatest game ever' is lacking.

Spoonwood · 2019-07-27 02:56:24

jasonrohrer wrote:

Pretty much all I heard on discord last night was "JASON REMOVE THIS UPDATE."
Yeah, that's not helpful.

It wasn't helpful to you, because you don't listen to negative talk all that well. It wasn't helpful, because you didn't ask enough penetrating questions. It wasn't helpful, because of your hubris. It should have come as helpful though, because all input from honest critics has something to it.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I've been working on this all week, and thinking about it and discussing it with people for many weeks. Of course, it's impossible to predict exactly what will happen, which is why it needs to be tested live.

It's simply not impossible to predict that it arbitrarily limits the number of players in the game who are babies. And except maybe for new players, being a baby in this game is extremely passive. Passivity usually bores people.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Three hours of pain is not then end of the world, folks, in the scope of a game that has been up and running for over 11,000 hours.

You're downplaying the seriousness of the change. You've limited player growth. That isn't consistent with trying to make a game great in terms of maximum mass appeal, since even Elvis Presley may have been more popular in the world of music if he had done something slightly different for all we know.

jasonrohrer wrote:

There will be many more little hours of pain in the future. That's the way game development works sometimes.

I'm not in pain here, thank you. I'm not playing your game and haven't in a few weeks now. I also now more fully realize that you have little understanding of what you're doing, and little humility. Your game is extremely poor in terms of potential mass appeal. If I'm to judge your abilities by your game design, it follows that you are a poor game designer in terms of vision and just as bad in terms of execution.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I realize that you're all just trolling me with how "upset" you seem to get. For some reason, I keep falling for it. I'll try to stop falling for it.

No, you do NOT realize that. You assume it. You probably assume it, because you have a serious problem with getting and receiving criticism. That said, I'm not upset, I got bored with your game. And I don't have any reason to start playing again now. I have reason to actually NOT play now, as your vision for the game is small in scope, and I don't just mean how the game appears on screen, though that sort of vision is small also.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-27 03:13:46

So bored that here you are posting in my forums endlessly!

You obviously love OHOL, Spoonwood. It's the best.

All the games you talk about are single player games.

For the old games (Civ and SimCity) the v1.0 versions of those games back in the 1980 and early 1990s were made by one person and shipped on a single floppy disk. Lots of games back then were made by one person. Most games were made by one person back then.

Go back and play Civ 1 if it's so great:

Yeah, it looks like it was made by one person. It's like a little pinky toe compared to the GIANT that is OHOL. One ground texture in OHOL probably has more data than was in Civ 1 (one ground texture can barely fit on a floppy disk).

But all the later editions of those games were made by huge teams, often without the original creator's direct involvement. And what's with all the sequels? Slight variations and improvements on the same idea over and over, forever?

I made 19 unique games, not 19 sequels.

And for RimWorld, again single player, he never made his own music, right?

What massively multiplayer game made entirely by one person are you comparing OHOL to again?

There has never been a game made entirely one person with this scope, both in terms of vision/content and in terms of engineering. In the entire history of games. Period. And I'm only just getting started. It's only going to get bigger and more ambitious. Just wait, Spurnwood, YOU WILL LOVE IT, and thank your lucky stars that you ever heard of OHOL. It will be majestic! It will make soldiers cry and old ladies dance.

Rimworld was made with Unity, right?

Do you know the biggest difference between Single Player and Multiplayer in terms of development? Testing. You can implement a feature in Rimworld and then playtest it yourself for hours to get it perfect. Are the colonists starving to death too much if we adjust this parameter? Let's find out. Before any players encounter it.

You can't test a massively multiplayer feature without releasing it. Which is what I'm doing. LIKE A BOSS.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-07-27 03:19:40

I played one life so far and it was probably the life of the year for me. It rivals one of my best lives I ever had for different reasons.

I was basically an adam to an eve village and it was one of more emotional grabbing lives ever. I initially started out abandoning my family that was not in any good circumstances(and friggin rude), and just set out to see the corners of the map. I ran through many a community and didn't stop other than to loot bodies. At about 10 or 12 I decided to make myself a reed skirt on top of my moufloun skin. I was gathering the supplies when I saw that eve village, and decided to gift them that rope I was going to use. I realized how bad of a predicament they themselves were in and decided to help. They were in a good spot, but had no labor force. I stared smithing for them and getting the first tools. Somewhere along the line they named me hero, and gained their last name. I saw 3 different generations of them, and a few girls made it each time. I just about flipped my desk and screamed at a certain point, when I thought everyone starved before I could cook the rabbit pile and cook the eggs. I died of old age just as the next generation came in and felt complete with that life.

I think there are kinks to be worked on and ironed out forsure, but all in all I think its a good start.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-27 03:21:42

Also, when you're in NYC, go to the MOMA sometime and see my game Passage which is in the permanent collection there. If you take a college class on Game Design you will be assigned Passage as homework.

Also, you will greatly enjoy this book that was written about me:

https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/game-worlds-jason-rohrer

(Yeah, I don't write books, but I had one written about my work.)

Also, you might enjoy this article which will invigorate your pulse and other vital functions:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a … sign-1208/

Yes, that's right Spoonwood, I'm SAVING YOUR 21ST CENTURY SOUL.

Get in line and I'll dunk you in my sticky pool of game design prowess.

Saolin · 2019-07-27 03:52:47

jasonrohrer wrote:

Pretty much all I heard on discord last night was "JASON REMOVE THIS UPDATE."
Yeah, that's not helpful.
I've been working on this all week, and thinking about it and discussing it with people for many weeks. Of course, it's impossible to predict exactly what will happen, which is why it needs to be tested live.
Three hours of pain is not then end of the world, folks, in the scope of a game that has been up and running for over 11,000 hours.
There will be many more little hours of pain in the future. That's the way game development works sometimes.

I realize that you're all just trolling me with how "upset" you seem to get. For some reason, I keep falling for it. I'll try to stop falling for it.

In general people are not trolling you. They are sharing their emotional reaction, not just to express it for themselves, but for you to hear it and be aware of it. They aren't always right, but it is information available for you to use.

I think the current update has a lot of potential. By increasing the hardship I think it should decrease the conflict; it's not as practical to grief when you can't just survive for free off other's hard work, and it's a struggle to survive yourself. One thing I'd like to recommend is that you play your own game once in a while, perhaps 2 hours a week. I mean no offense, but a lot of times when you share your thoughts you seem really out of touch with the state of the game. No one understands your vision for the game better than you, and there is no better feedback than your own personal experience. In most situations someone in your position would have hired people to test things for them.

Also, I get why your ego would be (justifiably) large, but it rubs people the wrong way. Everyone knows you have all the power and control. In a supplier-consumer situation in general, feedback tends to take the form of complaints (otherwise people usually say nothing). It would go a long way to improve the quality and tone of your feedback if you could resist the urge to "dunk you in my sticky pool of game design prowess". You've created a great game here which has very unique qualities that differentiates it from other games, there is no need to try to model your game after another game.

dodge wrote:

"to make the greatest game of all time"
It's really nice to have a dev that is this motivated and not some cash grab, nice trailer, big promises followed by a slow and steady decrease in updates and finally an unfinished dead game that had a lot of potential, like there is so many on steam...
Too bad some community members cant just enjoy the ups and downs and put even a tiny ammount of thought and effort into constructive criticism or even better some valuable feedback on their experience of the game.
Negativity is the lowest effort and just ends up achieving nothing valuable.
It's perfectly fine to rant and vent every now and then but when it's 90% of the forum posts it just makes you want to not read it and not participate.
I usually wont read posts when i know this user is going to mostly be ranting and saying nothing really interesting, waste of time.
Too bad, we could really share some interesting feedback, experiences and ideas to improve the game in a meaningful way.
I truly believe that everyone has their own unique and interesting perspective that could improve the game in some way but putting this perspective under layers of shit is just not going to achieve anything.
If you really think about it, it's when you break something that you realize it's flaws and weakpoints and figure out how to make it truly great and not just mediocre or half-assed.
If you want a great game then pain is part of the process unless you prefer something mediocre that everybody will forget eventually.
Next time you are frustrated or angry after a life ask yourself what REALLY caused the issue, look at all the pieces of the puzzle that led to this particular event and not just the last seconds before it happened.
If you noticed something that sticked out or that you keep thinking about, maybe you're onto something.
Share it on the forums, something great could come from it.

You're not wrong. The important thing to realize though, is players are under no obligation to offer any feedback whatsoever. The vast majority of players are not going to sit down and think critically about the feedback they can offer. In general they are going to tend towards bluntly sharing their emotional reaction to what they experience. While this doesn't excuse toxic people from conducting themselves as an ass-hat, it is important to be aware of the level of investment that should be reasonably expected and receive the feedback accordingly.

Tarr wrote:

Biggest issue I think is needing to use wondibles map to scout where you should be setting up towns (until we learn the map a bit better by memory) and the constant baby bombs right now.

I definitely don't think the update is bad but that it's just having a rocky start at the moment.

Players shouldn't need to use any additional mods, or apps, or whatever to be able to succeed at the game. IMO, the game should be closed-source so mods aren't possible, though i do agree a small field-of-view increase would be nice, things like seeing through trees is ridiculous. I always feel proud of myself when i discover a significant item hidden behind a tree. Other players just hack to be able to see it at a glance. It's unfair. I would go on to tell a story, but that's not really the point. A level playing field is healthier for the game.

ollj wrote:

good luck aiming for the stars jason.
im not totally against the fenche constrain, but the overall gameplay just got more randoim and a lot dumber.

Dude, what is your deal? It seems like you are constantly bragging about griefing techniques you pulled off, while simultaneously condemning griefers. "they crafted a knife, so i lured 15 bears to town". To quote the Simpsons: "What is your major malfunction?" Considering the amount of time you seem to put into this game, you seriously need to re-examine yourself. No joke. And my apologies if you are having a rough time in your life. But now is the time to figure out what is wrong and address it. Good god.

Last edited by Saolin (2019-07-27 04:15:04)

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-07-27 01:46:25

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#27 2019-07-27 02:23:46

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#28 2019-07-27 02:45:50

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#29 2019-07-27 02:56:24

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#30 2019-07-27 03:13:46

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#31 2019-07-27 03:19:40

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#32 2019-07-27 03:21:42

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

#33 2019-07-27 03:52:47

Re: Changes for the next Arc run

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