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You know cops shoot innocent people all the time. Same goes for the antigriefers. My point wasnt about either side being wrong but that the orientation is surprisingly similar. Have had several friends nearly quit, and quit, the game because they were wrongly accused and attacked by individuals with good intentions. It is worth addressing.
I first rolled this name during the war sword update to see if it even made a difference in terms of people killing me. It didnt. So i kept it. My fam has been targetted and griefed more than most, and yes it hurts, but i get it. Some people think its asking for griefing and some think its because im a griefer. All i care about in terms of this game is making a difference. Laying my bricks so others can build off them. Go ahead and try and villainize me or discount me to validate your own point. I wouldnt expect anything less from this community. Keep it up and we will be back at 30 regulars pretty fast.
Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-09-25 03:20:21)
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If you actually have a solve for this problem state it. If you dont, stop complaining. Jason cant ban anyone without an eula. All you're doing is yelling at a wall and expecting it to jump. I gave up on expecting this problem to be solved long ago. It will benefit you to do the same. All thats been done has made the game more static. You like race restrictions, like leadership? Thats the measures that have been added to diminish the problem you're having. Both of which can be abuse, and both put a chain around the neck of this game. Cant wait for whats next..
Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-09-25 03:30:42)
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It's always the griefers who throw around the term anti-griefing as if its supposed be meaningful or something. We're the people playing the game as intended aka normally, and you're the folks who actively ruin it.
Its funny having this come from the person who spear headed cutting down junipers during the rift to trigger end conditions and so people couldnt make fires. Cut arcs shorts in the early days because they were pissed. Locked up resources and enslaved families because they could.
Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-09-25 04:13:57)
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fug wrote:It's always the griefers who throw around the term anti-griefing as if its supposed be meaningful or something. We're the people playing the game as intended aka normally, and you're the folks who actively ruin it.
Its funny having this come from the person who spear headed cutting down maples during the rift to trigger end conditions and so people couldnt make fires. Cut arcs shorts in the early days because they were pissed. Locked up resources and enslaved families because they could.
If you are going to call Tarr a griefer, you might as well call out Jason for that time he released a swarm of bears on a town as divine retribution.
But of course, you know that Tarr isn't part of the griefer problem. You are just trying to muddy the waters.
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Eve Troll wrote:fug wrote:It's always the griefers who throw around the term anti-griefing as if its supposed be meaningful or something. We're the people playing the game as intended aka normally, and you're the folks who actively ruin it.
Its funny having this come from the person who spear headed cutting down maples during the rift to trigger end conditions and so people couldnt make fires. Cut arcs shorts in the early days because they were pissed. Locked up resources and enslaved families because they could.
If you are going to call Tarr a griefer, you might as well call out Jason for that time he released a swarm of bears on a town as divine retribution.
But of course, you know that Tarr isn't part of the griefer problem. You are just trying to muddy the waters.
I honestly expected more from you than to swallow that handful of blue pills. Excuse me while I toss red pills in your face. Straw man me all you want.
If you dont think tarr was a griefer back in the day.. like. Ever heard of the green hats? Know who founded them? My point was that the antigriefers and the griefers are cut from the same cloth, its a fact. Ignore it all you want.
Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-09-25 04:35:30)
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Eve Troll wrote:fug wrote:It's always the griefers who throw around the term anti-griefing as if its supposed be meaningful or something. We're the people playing the game as intended aka normally, and you're the folks who actively ruin it.
Its funny having this come from the person who spear headed cutting down maples during the rift to trigger end conditions and so people couldnt make fires. Cut arcs shorts in the early days because they were pissed. Locked up resources and enslaved families because they could.
If you are going to call Tarr a griefer, you might as well call out Jason for that time he released a swarm of bears on a town as divine retribution.
But of course, you know that Tarr isn't part of the griefer problem. You are just trying to muddy the waters.
I thought it was obvious that Jason is a griefer.
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I thought it was obvious that Jason is a griefer.
You've got me there.
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Eve Troll wrote:fug wrote:It's always the griefers who throw around the term anti-griefing as if its supposed be meaningful or something. We're the people playing the game as intended aka normally, and you're the folks who actively ruin it.
Its funny having this come from the person who spear headed cutting down maples during the rift to trigger end conditions and so people couldnt make fires. Cut arcs shorts in the early days because they were pissed. Locked up resources and enslaved families because they could.
If you are going to call Tarr a griefer, you might as well call out Jason for that time he released a swarm of bears on a town as divine retribution.
But of course, you know that Tarr isn't part of the griefer problem. You are just trying to muddy the waters.
This is an Eve Tarr from three days ago: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6601075 I haven't checked hashes, or know them. There's also the issue of other people using that name.
I easily could be missing relevant details. But such looks like serious problems in fundamental game design or a destructive player's lineage or someone trying to implement a particular strategy for "family success", which admittedly I've done, but I'm not so sure is in the spirit of the game.
Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.
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HumanPerson wrote:Better watch out for those evil anti-criminals trying to persecute innocent criminals.
God, I hate those guys. They are almost as bad as the anti-speeders who keep telling me to slow down when I am driving a car I bought with my own money!
If you can't handle my speed, you should just get off the road. It is a free country. I can drive how I like, damn it.
Don't forget that in order to chase you down, the anti-speeders themselves are technically speeding, thus absorbing all the blame and making you, the original speeder, blameless.
Eve Troll, you are clearly attempting to derail the conversation from the core issue, that is, repeated griefers who steal things en masse for no reason and the lack of defence against this.
Jason made it clear he prefers to understand the problem, rather than to have people throw half-assed solution at him, but for your sake I will drop some. Maybe it will help us understand each other a little bit more than not at all.
Solution ideas:
Add a step or two in the griefer punishment thresholds.
Lower the amount of curses it takes to disable a griefer locally, say 3-4 curses will make them unable to pick stuff up for certain short duration (yellow fever like), except for food items so they dont starve, and perhaps slow them down a little for the same duration. This will give people time to get together and discuss the griefer situation before it's too late, either understanding their reasoning or giving them more curses. It would be like a little village tribunal. If the griefer refuses to participate, it would likely be taken as indication of his guilt by the people.
Make it so curses are more effective against people who have already been successfully banished, so that next time they require fewer curses to be banished, at least for certain time, since they are a freshly convicted criminal, and are thus likely to find less understanding from normal people, I mean anti-griefers. If I hear strange noises coming from my neighbours house, who just got released from prison, I am more likely to call the police than if he's a guy who was in prison 20 years ago.
Make people over certain threshold of curses be unable to use carts for certain time, they can use other stuff, but this would drastically reduce their ability to cart stuff off. You can only do so much with what you can carry in a basket. Akin to taking drivers licence from people who run out of points, prior to putting them in prison.
And of course, make it so this is tied to actual play time, so that griefers have to use this account to serve their sentence, rather than jumping on another account while their ban runs out.
There are plenty of solutions if the problem is understood. You trying to smear the so called 'anti-griefers' is not going to work, due to flawed logic and lack of arguments based on actual reality most of us live in.
You do understand the problem is griefers who steal en masse and cause mass misery for no reason and no gain for anyone else, right? Not someone who takes your rope and runs around the house with it before giving it back, like older brother stuff or means to entertain others with harmless drama.
Last edited by HumanPerson (2020-09-25 10:21:41)
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21/83 posts on this forum. I think its time to take a beat and let other people express themselves. Cant expect people to realistically read through all this.
You brought up griefing, i talked about griefing. Just because you disagree doesnt discount my input.
No ones interested in a novel about how everyone hates griefing. We have all heard it before and if you combined all the posts on these forums about it you would have a book so thick it would rival the dictionary.
Might be cathartic to complain but it isnt getting us anywhere. Ive been in your shoes, play long enough and you will just get hardened to the fact this community is what it is.
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21/83 posts on this forum. I think its time to take a beat and let other people express themselves. Cant expect people to realistically read through all this.
You brought up griefing, i talked about griefing. Just because you disagree doesnt discount my input.
No ones interested in a novel about how everyone hates griefing. We have all heard it before and if you combined all the posts on these forums about it you would have a book so thick it would rival the dictionary.
Might be cathartic to complain but it isnt getting us anywhere. Ive been in your shoes, play long enough and you will just get hardened to the fact this community is what it is.
Considering I made an account specifically to start this thread and I have not posted anywhere else on this forums, and that discussion has been developing in quite a civil and to some degree constructive manner, I think it's reasonable that I would be active in this thread.
I do not believe, however, that you were ever in my shoes. Had you been in my shoes, you would not defend people who behave like this. You don't become a criminal just because you have lived long enough. Either way it does nothing for those who are not highly experienced and those are the true victims.
As you yourself put it earlier, if you don't like it, leave. That's your own advice yet you do not follow it.
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Solution ideas:
Add a step or two in the griefer punishment thresholds.
Lower the amount of curses it takes to disable a griefer locally, say 3-4 curses will make them unable to pick stuff up for certain short duration (yellow fever like), except for food items so they dont starve, and perhaps slow them down a little for the same duration. This will give people time to get together and discuss the griefer situation before it's too late, either understanding their reasoning or giving them more curses. It would be like a little village tribunal. If the griefer refuses to participate, it would likely be taken as indication of his guilt by the people.Make it so curses are more effective against people who have already been successfully banished, so that next time they require fewer curses to be banished, at least for certain time, since they are a freshly convicted criminal, and are thus likely to find less understanding from normal people, I mean anti-griefers. If I hear strange noises coming from my neighbours house, who just got released from prison, I am more likely to call the police than if he's a guy who was in prison 20 years ago.
Make people over certain threshold of curses be unable to use carts for certain time, they can use other stuff, but this would drastically reduce their ability to cart stuff off. You can only do so much with what you can carry in a basket. Akin to taking drivers licence from people who run out of points, prior to putting them in prison.
And of course, make it so this is tied to actual play time, so that griefers have to use this account to serve their sentence, rather than jumping on another account while their ban runs out.
There are plenty of solutions if the problem is understood. You trying to smear the so called 'anti-griefers' is not going to work, due to flawed logic and lack of arguments based on actual reality most of us live in.
You do understand the problem is griefers who steal en masse and cause mass misery for no reason and no gain for anyone else, right? Not someone who takes your rope and runs around the house with it before giving it back, like older brother stuff or means to entertain others with harmless drama.
like the direction of the ideas. The question i have is, do we need two different logic / curses and exile, or could they be combined to one?
As said people who are exiled (more enemies then allies) could be slowed down X0.8 and reduced to tool / item use of age 3
The ally exile system would be perfect to do this. Using a curse could by default also exile the other person.
I would see it this way, we have three different ways of saying i dont like what you do in this order:
Exile, Curse, Kill
An exile ist the most soft version an kill attempt the hardest one.
If you curse and try to kill, by default you should auto exile. If you forgive also the exile should be forgiven
If you try to kill some one by default it could auto curse and auto exile the one.
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Still find it hilarious you think im some type of griefer (criminal), or even defending them. Like how close minded can you be, you know nothing about me, how long ive played, or how i play.
If its illegal to bring up the fact its human nature and a playstyle that is not only common in games, but probably the most common then lock me up. But good luck fixing that issue. All you're going to do is make the game even more boring, rigid, and lame. If you like that, push for it. Those types of players will always find their corner.
These are the words of someone who has seen more griefing than i hope you ever do. I was pissed once, fought hard against it. Eventually my will to fight just broke and i decided to focus on what i enjoyed about the game instead of constantly fighting what i hated about it.
Also just because you made this thread doesnt mean you own it. It also doesnt mean you get to govern how people express themselves here.
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Still find it hilarious you think im some type of griefer (criminal), or even defending them. Like how close minded can you be, you know nothing about me, how long ive played, or how i play.
If its illegal to bring up the fact its human nature and a playstyle that is not only common in games, but probably the most common then lock me up. But good luck fixing that issue. All you're going to do is make the game even more boring, rigid, and lame. If you like that, push for it. Those types of players will always find their corner.
These are the words of someone who has seen more griefing than i hope you ever do. I was pissed once, fought hard against it. Eventually my will to fight just broke and i decided to focus on what i enjoyed about the game instead of constantly fighting what i hated about it.
Also just because you made this thread doesnt mean you own it. It also doesnt mean you get to govern how people express themselves here.
It's true, I do not know any of these things. All I have to work with is how you have presented yourself in this thread and that why I react to you the way I do. I am not looking for arguments, I just find it strange that someone would, seemingly, be opposed to combating hardcore griefers. If I misunderstood you, then explain your position better please, if you care to so do.
Nobody is locking you up. Other games have measures against the most extreme of griefers and for a good reason, this game should have it too, since we cannot rely on true life mechanics in a videogame and it is quite apparent how much of a problem these extreme griefers can be. The current system just needs to be balanced for fairness and effectiveness and that is what we are trying to achieve here.
If no effort is made to solve it, it will not be solved. Even if we fail, at least we tried and maybe eventually one attempt will work, just like the light-bulb anecdote. No point in discouraging this unless it is dangerous in some way.
Of course I dont own it, that's not how forums work, everybody is welcome to present their opinion, but it stands to reason that I would have special interest in this one. My goal is not to endlessly talk about it, but to come to some conclusions which would be productive and helpful for the future of the game. I like it, I want to help.
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Simply. No matter how many measures are put in place griefers will always find a way to annoy people. The more measures we put in place the more stale and formulaic the game becomes.
I dont think its worth potentially making the game more dull and repetitive in the desire to stop something that can never be stopped.
P.S or spending months on adjustments and fixes for a system that might just be a bandaid for a knife wound. We are finally getting legit content. I would rather see eggs put in those baskets than some rabbit hole that might take months to "work" and distract jason from progressing tech in the game.
Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-09-25 12:11:51)
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It's true, I do not know any of these things. All I have to work with is how you have presented yourself in this thread and that why I react to you the way I do. I am not looking for arguments, I just find it strange that someone would, seemingly, be opposed to combating hardcore griefers. If I misunderstood you, then explain your position better please, if you care to so do.
Nobody is locking you up. Other games have measures against the most extreme of griefers and for a good reason, this game should have it too, since we cannot rely on true life mechanics in a videogame and it is quite apparent how much of a problem these extreme griefers can be. The current system just needs to be balanced for fairness and effectiveness and that is what we are trying to achieve here.
If no effort is made to solve it, it will not be solved. Even if we fail, at least we tried and maybe eventually one attempt will work, just like the light-bulb anecdote. No point in discouraging this unless it is dangerous in some way.
Of course I dont own it, that's not how forums work, everybody is welcome to present their opinion, but it stands to reason that I would have special interest in this one. My goal is not to endlessly talk about it, but to come to some conclusions which would be productive and helpful for the future of the game. I like it, I want to help.
I guess what EveTroll means is, that adding some mechanic can make it worse / more restrictive.
For example some time ago every body could kill anybody and it was a matter of skill who succeeds.
So if a griefer comes and you are a vet, you could kill him in most of the cases and it allowed also for murder stories and so on.
For sure the system was not perfect, but the now more rigid system is for sure also not perfect.
I for my part would advocate to keep it as close to reality and simple as possible.
What i mean with that. I mean in our life you are able to kill somebody and so it should be possible in this game if the goal of the game is to simulate civilization to an certain point.
For sure there should be ways to protect yourself and the village against it and it does not need to be the main content of this game.
There should be a balance between griefers and defense. Currently killing is quite complicated but grieving is super easy.
What i try for my part is to get it more balanced. I think the simple one on one skilled based combat system like before would be general be much easier to understand and use, but it would have need some balances like more hit points and less ability to evade through griefer dance.
But since for now Jason and for sure Twisted does not seem to go this way back to a one on one system i try to help to make the current system better.
In away what other games would do is provide a separate server. In our case we could let them spawn in different villages.
Last edited by Arcurus (2020-09-25 12:12:08)
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Simply. No matter how many measures are put in place griefers will always find a way to annoy people. The more measures we put in place the more stale and formulaic the game becomes.
I dont think its worth potentially making the game more dull and repetitive in the desire to stop something that can never be stopped.
But what is to be done with serial griefers who just take stuff off to the forest, are seen doing it, yet nobody can really stop them. Even if they are killed, they will do it in the another village or /die until they spawn back in the original village, to finish the job. It sounds like you are suggesting that they should be allowed to do whatever they want else the game gets stale.
I know for a fact that several people I know and myself, got pissed off at the game because of the absurdly high amount of griefing after sales. We cannot be the only ones who reacted in this manner and you cannot tell me that's good for the future of the game.
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They need an outlet of some kind. Right now the whole stealing and hiding stuff is their only outlet. Before it was killing people. Honestly i preferred the killing. Someone would show up, make a big scene, stab someone, get stabbed, die, the innocent person would get healed, rinse, and repeat. At least for the most part towns were stable and dealing with them was pretty simple. They got to do what they like to do and it wasnt detrimental to the total ecosystem of the town. The town killer types were super rare but not hard to catch and deal with.
With the leadership change all we see now is town killers, because thats their only outlet.
They need something where they can have fun without disrupting things beyond repair. Some chaos can be exciting, constant chaos is painful. So finding that middle ground where they have fun doing what they do, other people can have fun countering them, but overall the impact is low.
Town killers were rare back in the day because i imagine its boring. Whats fun about scrapping an engine? I presume they only do it for the rush of annoying people. Find something low impact thats not only fun but gives them their fix of annoying people and problem solved.
Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-09-25 12:31:59)
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They need an outlet of some kind. Right now the whole stealing and hiding stuff is their only outlet. Before it was killing people. Honestly i preferred the killing. Someone would show up, make a big scene, stab someone, get stabbed, the innocent person would get healed, rinse, and repeat. At least for the most part towns were stable and dealing with them was pretty simple. They got to do what they like to do and it wasnt detrimental to total ecosystem of the town. The town killer types were super rare but not hard to catch and deal with.
With the leadership change all we see now is town killers, because thats their only outlet.
They need something where they can have fun without disrupting things beyond repair. Some chaos can be exciting, constant chaos is painful. So finding that middle ground where they have fun doing what they do, other people can have fun countering them, but overall the impact is low.
Town killers were rare back in the day because i imagine its boring. Whats fun about scrapping an engine? I presume they only do it for the rush of annoying people. Find something low impact thats not only fun but gives them their fix of annoying people and problem solved.
It was actually before the leader update i think it was some of the posse updates which really messed it up.
Also to make killing not skill based made it easier to just kill someone. Run kill run... That would be quite easy to fix by removing the speed X0.9 for 5 or even 10 min after a kill.
Killing was not so much the problem, the new implemented posse system to stop grievers was so powerful that it became the new best way to grief.
The problem is, once there is so much development time put in, its difficult to get rid of it again, even if it would make lot of sense.
For sure the engine problem got worse by allowing to scrap it that simple in an box.
Jasons argument here was that so or so a griefer could just steal and hide it somewhere.
A solution would have been to slow the speed also down if you transport an engine with an cart / car.
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I think you are viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses, Eve Troll.
When killing people was as easy as picking up a knife and clicking on a villager, the forums were filled with complaints about the out-of-control murder epidemic. It was not some wonderful utopia full of interesting stories of brave heroes and reckless villains. Go back and check the statistics Jason gathered on how many lives used to end in murder before he started messing around with the posse system and other things. It was brutal in the old days. New players would kill people by accident trying to put down a knife in a crowded village. Fledgling griefers would get bored of the game's steep learning curve and become serial killers because it was a simple and intuitive "profession" for any gamer to learn. More subtle griefing did happen back then, but killing was the most visible and most widespread way that griefers impacted the game. And it was not harmless or nicely balanced. Not surprisingly, nobody likes being murdered, life after life after life. A murder story might be "exciting" if it is rare, but it was not rare. It was so common that people became emotionally hardened to chaos and the constant threat of intra-family killing, just as you yourself described happening to you, or they left the game for good, or they joined the griefers to get on the "winning" side.
Griefing and the lack of adequate response to serial griefers has plagued this game for years. Making it easy to kill so that griefers have an easy outlet for their violent tendencies is a terribly flawed idea. It won't make the game better for the average player. Despite what you believe, most people playing this game are NOT serial griefers. If they were, we would not have any functioning towns because nobody would be doing the countless things that keep the town alive from hour to hours.
The truth is that while anyone has the potential to become a griefer, very few people make it their mission in life to screw over their fellow villagers. Serial griefers are rare and they are not a beneficial presence in the game. Those few players are responsible for a lot of the damage caused by griefers and they are also the ones who tend to accumulate a lot of curses quickly because their in-game behavior is negatively impacting so many other people, compared with the average player.
Those are the players that Jason needs to worry about every time he adds a new or interesting game-mechanic to the game, because they are the ones who are going to abuse any tools he gives us and use them for malicious purposes. And they are also the people that deserve more longterm solutions, because as long as they have free access to a server full of victims, they will keep finding new "outlets" for their toxic behavior. If they cannot murder, they will steal, if they cannot steal, the will kidnap babies, if they cannot kidnap babies, they will over-eat, if they cannot over-eat, they will ruin resources. There are a million different ways to grief.
I think that you are correct that it is a constant struggle to stay one step ahead of griefers, because like water, they will always follow the path of least resistance and gravitate toward the next easiest way to mess with people. They cannot or will not live peacefully, so as long as they are allowed to keep playing OHOL, they will keep trolling. But the solution is NOT to give them more toys and hope they are happy with "just" killing people again.
Don't feed the trolls, Eve Troll. I'm sure you are familiar with that saying. It only encourages them.
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Lol. Completely misunderstood what i meant but ok. Let me spell it out for you.
They need an outlet that they enjoy that isnt ruining the game for everyone else.
Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-09-25 13:26:00)
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So what outlet are you suggesting that would appeal to griefers and NOT ruin the game for everyone else?
Because last time I checked, "enjoys ruining the game for everyone else" is the core description of a griefer.
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It was brutal in the old days. New players would kill people by accident trying to put down a knife in a crowded village.
Dont they need to shift right click or something to kill?
I think we wont have much murder going on if attacking makes by default a curse both way (if you have a curse token).
To not harm people which play longer and therefore get more curses, we could connect the curse impact with the time you played (you loose one curse or so after one hour play time).
If you get tons of curses and are in the top 10% of the current players with the most curses you be additionally marked as cursed...
Then we just would need to balance how hard curses are to increase or decrease the murder rate, and we could reduce the now more complicated mechanics.
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So what outlet are you suggesting that would appeal to griefers and NOT ruin the game for everyone else?
Because last time I checked, "enjoys ruining the game for everyone else" is the core description of a griefer.
I think he suggest that they will more do the non hidden stuff like murder and then be murdered themselves instead of the now quite hidden griefing where they kill a hole village by destroying their resources.
by the way, why not have a festival like Saturnalia once a week or so where most rules are lifted like the romans did in former times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B4_K1EL6Hs
I would suggest Saturday, since so or so normally there is a reset at Saturday and Saturday actually stands for Saturn, which is connected to the roman celebration of Saturnalia.
And once a month a Saturnalia, where also curses are lifted...
Of course killing by skill like it was before should be activated again during this more rule less times...
The benefit of this would be, that we can try out different mechanics. I guess this would help also, like in roman times, make the rules more acceptable, since you know how it is without them...
UPDATE:
I changed this post, since as Destiny mentioned it mixed a nice festival with what the spiffing Britt did in Minecraft by removing all rules for some time, its quite funny: but the idea is still the same, give some time to try out how it is without social rules...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7J9v_Md-Nk
Last edited by Arcurus (2020-09-25 16:12:10)
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DestinyCall wrote:It was brutal in the old days. New players would kill people by accident trying to put down a knife in a crowded village.
Dont they need to shift right click or something to kill?
I think we wont have much murder going on if attacking makes by default a curse both way (if you have a curse token).
To not harm people which play longer and therefore get more curses, we could connect the curse impact with the time you played (you loose one curse or so after one hour play time).
If you get tons of curses and are in the top 10% of the current players with the most curses you be additionally marked as cursed...
Then we just would need to balance how hard curses are to increase or decrease the murder rate, and we could reduce the now more complicated mechanics.
Oh Arcurus, you weren't here for the really wild days of old. Once upon a time, all you needed to do to kill someone was pick up the knife and left-click. No age restrictions. No murder-cooldown. No [Gasp!] or murder-face to warn your victim of your murderous intentions. No posse requirement in populated areas. Nothing at all.
Just pick up knife. Stabbity-stab-stab-stab. Everyone dead. On to the next town!
When I joined the game, Jason had added age restrictions to prevent toddler serial killers and a murder cooldown that left a killer slowed down and holding a bloody murder weapon after killing someone, so the village would have a little bit of time to realize that they were being slaughtered. This helped give people a chance to respond, but it didn't do that much good if the village only had one knife and the killer as holding it. It also lead to "murder-chains" where one random killing would be avenged by somebody with a knife only for the "hero" to get accused of murder and stabbed as well. Then someone would come upon the scene and see two dead bodies, raise the cry "serial killer!" and kill the guy holding the knife. I've been in towns where the entire adult population was wiped out by murder chains.
Changing the kill-command to shift-right click was done to eliminate the problem of putting down weapons inside the village, since random people might walk onto the tile and get knifed or shot with a bow by accident, simply because the floors were too crowded with random junk.
...
I've talked about this in the other thread, but I don't think that killing should auto-curse. Don't be lazy. If you kill someone, take a few seconds to curse them if you think they deserve it. The two actions are better as separate mechanics. Linking them together makes it harder to adjust them, if necessary. And if cursing is supposed to punish the bad players, I don't think we should be punishing victims for getting killed by griefers, for example. If you are killing a griefer, it is not that hard to also decide to curse them, before or after the act of killing.
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